"We want to try and live by our values, but run as a fledgling studio at the same time. It's that balance between ensuring revenue comes in and taking on clients aligned with those values." - Pennybridge 


PennyBridge is an unconventionally professional creative studio based in Palm Beach, Gold Coast, Australia. Founded by Paul Balfe and Kyle Tillman, who merged their individual freelance practices, the studio specializes in branding, packaging, illustration, and various design services. They discuss their journey as generalists in the design industry, the challenges of balancing creativity with business demands, and their approach to maintaining a unique brand identity while delivering high-quality work to clients.

Key Takeaways:

• Embracing a unique identity: PennyBridge emphasizes the importance of leaning into who they are as a studio, which has become their "superpower" in attracting the right clients.
• Process is crucial: They've developed a refined process that helps them navigate client relationships and creative challenges, often leading to first-round approvals.
• Balancing generalism and specialization: As generalists, they face the challenge of keeping up with industry trends while maintaining their core strengths.
• Work-life balance struggles: The team acknowledges the difficulty in separating work from personal life, especially as passionate creatives and business owners.
• Client selection: They've learned to be more selective with clients, focusing on those who align with their values and work style.
• Location challenges and opportunities: Being based outside major cities presents both challenges in perception and opportunities to carve a unique path.
• Continuous evolution: PennyBridge emphasizes the importance of adapting their processes and strategies as they grow and face new challenges.
• Team dynamics: The founders complement each other's skills, with Paul focusing more on business strategy and Kyle on creative direction.
• Brand presentation: They've found success in creating engaging brand presentations, including videos, to effectively communicate their ideas to clients.
• Future planning: The studio is working on developing long-term strategies and relationships with clients to ensure sustainable growth.

Daring Creativity. Podcast with Radim Malinic

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PennyBridge: [00:00:00] I don't know if there's any other industry that is as subjective as ours. So we're going to be hyper critical on our work before it goes out to the client.

And then the client's going to be hyper critical because. They're paying for it. So you've got to create this like perfect marriage of expectation, and then everybody agrees that is the right thing to go out. So, I think that's where a lot of the pressure and stress comes from is when we're talking about new levels, new devils Hello and welcome to Creativity for Sale podcast, a show to help you start and grow your life changing creative career and business. My name is Radim Malinich and creativity changed my life. 

Radim Malinic: You see, I believe creativity can change your life too. I even wrote a book about it and it inspired this podcast. I've set out to interview the world's most brilliant creatives, designers, writers, musicians, makers, and [00:01:00] marketeers about their life changing experiences with creativity.

If you ever wanted to know how people go from their humble beginnings to the pinnacle of their success, our conversations should provide you with an intimate look into triumphs, challenges, and untold stories behind their creative endeavours. We also discuss the highs and lows of creative careers and creative life.

So, thank you for joining me on this exploration of passion, creativity, innovation, and the boundless potential within us all. Let creativity change your life. Are you ready

My guests today run an unconventionally professional and creative studio that builds brands with pixels and paint. Working where corporate and culture collide, they are fiercely independent and believe they can change the face of business for good. Both my guests are byproducts of extreme sports and art industry, their paths are similar yet different, and I believe this is what makes their studio unique.

It's my pleasure to introduce [00:02:00] Paul Balfe and Kyle Tillman from Pennybridge.

 Hello there.it's my pleasure to have you on the show guys. I'm truly, truly excited to talk to you because I've heard a lot about you and I want to find out even more. So it's my pleasure to introduce Penny Bridge, Paul and Kyle.how are you

today? 

it going? We're excited to be here. I think we've got a few mutual connections that we haven't realized that we actually have, I think when you tap into the world of creativity and design, you realize that actually it's a quite small world, even though you guys are on the other side of the world to me.

so. Yeah, for those who may have never heard of Penny Bridge, or you guys, how would you quickly introduce yourself to those?

PennyBridge: We are an unconventionally professional creative studio based, in Palm Beach, Gold Coast, Australia. I would say in [00:03:00] terms of being a studio, we're a bit of a generalist studio in the sense that we kind of do everything.

just purely out of, we don't like sitting still. So, yeah, we just anything that comes through, we always seem to jump at a challenge. So,we do lots of brand stuff. but then we also do like packaging, illustration, large scale murals, we're dabbling in bits of motion and app design, web design.

Yeah. All that

digital 

Radim Malinic: think,

I think what you've got there is that a curse of a generalist because like, what do you do? Everything. How would you describe it? Well, let me get my bullet points out and you go and go, because I think once upon a time I was in the same boat and it's just like, you say I'm a graphic designer and then you start reading off like 27 different things you've done just that week alone.

People were like, So are you a designer or are you something else? I think that's that curse of generalist because what you said was the unconventional professionalist GDM, is that right? Unconventionally.

PennyBridge: so [00:04:00] we realized that, a lot of the businesses that we worked with kind of, like challenger brands that wanted to stand out. and I guess that's probably our aesthetic is that we craft brands in any space. that want to, stand out in their industry. So whether that's, with, crazy graphics or if it's subtle graphics with, bold copy or whatever that might be, we just love bringing that kind of character to life instead of just creating, run of the mill brands and having just a rinse and repeat kind of style.

We just tap into whatever people are wanting really and whatever they need. Yeah, and I think we like to look at our design and style and I suppose even ourselves, we might come across as we're just pretty laid back and punk rock and just don't really know what we're doing, but we actually really do know what we're doing.

So, I think that's where the unconventionally professional sort of comes into it.

Radim Malinic: I love it. I love it. I think that's the [00:05:00] benefit of, we talk about a curse of being generalist and I think the benefit of being generalist, because actually, as opposed to using a house style and house Applicable solutions. You actually, you're looking into sort of unique solutions and unique applications and you can work for your clients.

So before we talk about now, let me take it a couple of steps back because you guys both merged your freelance practices or your small creative studios into PennyBridge because you both have a similar background, but also you work for different companies at the beginning of your journeys, you went both on your own and then you're overlapped by meeting at events and that kind of stuff.

So on the way to where you are today, I know when you say now we know what we're doing, let's talk about the times when you didn't know what you were doing.

PennyBridge: Yeah. I mean, we have definitely had very similar, career paths, parallel and somewhat, yeah, both products of the surf industry. I used to work at Billabong designing clothes for a long time. That was my first real job in the [00:06:00] industry, until I realized that I really don't enjoy doing that job.

So, yeah, pivoted from there. And then Paul had a similar,I was working in advertising for Morrison Media and they did, like a whole bunch of different titles. So like, surfing, skating, moto, bodyboarding, and they had like women's fashion and stuff like that. So I was working with all the big brands at that stage.

So that was really fun, but that's where I fell in love with design. and. like the whole advertising world and brand and everything. So, went and studied and out the back of that, cause I couldn't get a job. essentially just started freelancing and it just rolled into what it is today.

so it's a bit of a funny time. Cause I think when we both started out on our own, it was like at the genesis of. Instagram and whatnot. so even though Kyle was just down the road, like I'd be seeing a lot of his work when he would post it. and we had a pretty thriving design scene back then, I'd say, about a decade [00:07:00] ago.

so like everyone was driving each other at the time. So I've kind of looked up to Kyle for a long time. and then a couple of years ago, we just. at different events and shooting the shit. And basically, Kyle just told me he was having a bit of a rough trot. And,was like, Oh, this is someone that I've looked up to for a long time.

I don't want him to pack it in. And, then we just started chatting and we realized that, I always looked up to Kyle's creativity. and I could feel that gap from a, I guess a business point of view. So then it makes sense to join forces where everyone always says that our styles would be complimentary.

Sowhen we started telling people, everyone just was like, Yeah, cool. That makes sense. Yeah, of course, like whatever. And we were like, Oh, okay, this thing that we thought was a big deal is not a big deal. so it's been good. Yeah, it's been really good. Yeah, I think, for me personally, yes, spent eight years trying to do my own thing.

And, I'm really good at a lot of things, but being a businessman and, running [00:08:00] that side of things is probably not my greatest skill, I would have to say. So, whereas Paul's, quite proficient at that. So a lot more proficient than what it was definitely like, it made a lot of sense.

Radim Malinic: I'm very happy for you that you found each other because when you tell someone you're a graphic designer or you're a creative, someone will say, a friend of yours will be like, Oh, I've got a friend who's a graphic designer. You should do some work together. You're like, Definitely not, because you need to work with somebody who's like, Mermaid is a strategist and he needs a creative services or somebody is, a coder and they need a designer because it's quite simple.

like, it's not going to be like always conducive to best work when you put two like minded people with the same skillset together. This is why looking.

for that sort of odd one out or the odd person that will compliment you to what you do is always beneficial for the business. So, if Paul is the business side and you're more creative side, that makes perfect sense. And I think it was John Haggerty who once said that [00:09:00] every lender needs his McCartney, like basically everyone needs the sort of,the fighty opposite, the creative conflict in a way to get the best out of each other.

so, that sounds great. And I think looking at your background, when you said, Kyle, you were doing, you were creating clothes for Billabong and you were making magazines and stuff, absolutely lends itself in a career of a generalist because you pick up all of these informations and these pieces of knowledge that you can put together as an outfit together now.

and offer much broader offering than just, like, Hey, we are graphic designers. We can do posters and websites, it's more being all rounders. And I think that sort of that experience that you guys collected on the way to becoming Pennybridge is invaluable. how would you say, from where you are right now, with growing forward,you guys call it new levels, new devils.

where do you find the challenges of, now you are together, what was the new challenges? Because you've overcome some of the [00:10:00] obstacles to get this far, where is the sort of new devils in the growth and new levels?

PennyBridge: I guess to answer that, probably comes like back to that generalist. point of view where we are constantly wanting to do everything. so, as our kind of industry evolves at the moment with, motion and 3d, trying to keep up and with AI and all that stuff is one of the things that we're okay, cool.

Like we know that we need to upskill, but there's only so much you can do. So, you can't be good at everything. I guess, building those competencies within the business, and whether or not you're building that with people that are currently in the business and upskilling them, or if you're bringing those competencies in and, trying to figure out if, if that is the right direction for the studio, cause it's very easy to chase the shiny object, and see other people that are doing it, but then, is that necessarily a good fit for us?

or is it, better off, joining with,partnering with another studio to help us do that if and when it's [00:11:00] needed. So, all things that we think about pretty regularly. it's definitely a tough one. I don't know if I'm answering that question properly, but,it's also, when the fact that we've joined and we've got, Jordan in with us as well, who's a big part of our business, like trying to figure out roles and structures, cause we're not traditionally trained from an agency point of view as well.

We've both come from a, DIY background. Yeah, full DIY background. So we're making up those roles as we go and starting to like delineate who does what. when, I've run a creative business and done the creative cause. It's done the same. So there's gonna be points when, I might think from a sales point of view that we should be doing something and he is like, no.

Or like from a creative point of view, it's hard for me not to stand over his shoulder and creative, direct and think that I know everything still. that's why we've partnered. So it's all those things roll into one and then trying to figure out what that looks like for the next, five, 10 years.

And, I think just keeping up with. How fast [00:12:00] the pace is at the moment is one of the, one of the tough things.

Radim Malinic: So this is my question. You mentioned shiny objects and there's so much to unpack.quite a few notes and we'll get into it. You mentioned shiny objects and you mentioned the trends and the fast paced industry, how actually is it affecting us? are we trying to keep up because we think this is what might be required of us, or do you try to retain your own identity despite of it?

Because. Evolution and technological advancements are inevitable and undeniable, obviously. We need to know what's happening around us, unless we've got multi million pound, dollar careers that doesn't require any deviation from the magic formula how much do we need to evolve and how much do we need to keep up?

Because it's so easily to be swayed by the by all the noise, by all the sort of what I call blind and uninformed hysteria. Like how much of this is actually translated even into a real world? Because [00:13:00] yes, you mentioned upskilling team or collaborating. it's always good to know and keep the trends and keep an idea of actually what's possible because it's more about possibilities than trends.

But how much do you guys get I mean, anxious about the things that are coming. I mean, are you standing firmly in your ground going, you know what, we can learn and pick and borrow or do you be like, Oh shit, we need to actually keep up. How do you feel about that?

PennyBridge: I think it's,stressful as hell. there's just so much information out there and, inboxes are like always full, both figuratively and, literally. So, part of that is, there's stress on us now that even after we merged and we have done some awesome work and we won a couple of awards last year and there's pressure to keep doing that and keep progressing and keep trying to lead the pack somewhat,and I'm talking mostly within our [00:14:00] local kind of community.

so there's that aspect and then there's also sort of trying to keep up with what the clients are actually wanting as well. I guess that's the other thing, like, I know what you're saying, writing, but you know, it's very easy to go, no, this is what we do. But when everything starts to change and you've got people being like, all right, those static. things that you've done for us are great, but people don't engage with anything that's not moving now. And all of a sudden you've got to make everything that you're designing, move, when, you know, you're not a traditional animation studio or you don't know,very basic when it comes to motion and it's Okay, we need to figure out, we need to figure that out because that's what our clients are asking us to do that within, the same amount of time and budget that we were like, we've been working with them for years to do.

So then that kind of puts stress on the business and you go, all right, is that the standard now? and. it's one of those things, like if you end up in those situations where they're like, oh, [00:15:00] my, brother's sister's cousin can do it on his phone in five minutes, why can't you do it?

And it's like, that's not how it works. So, 

Radim Malinic: That's how you get divorced, and you're like, yeah, so pass it on and we'll do something different. I mean, if someone else can do it on the phone, then they should, obviously shouldn't, but, that's very interesting because. You mentioned, Kyle, three important words which almost don't match up with the idea of a creative business.

You said stressful, pressure, and overload. And you're like, Well, this is meant to be sunshine and ice cream. This is meant to be brilliant because we do creative work, right? This is like, we get into creative, in the creative industry and we start our sort of creative profession on the back of being excited, only to find ourselves from creative dreams to be in unproductive nightmares, Like, this is heavy. it gets heavy really quickly because when the client comes through the door, everything can change. your ambitions don't match the reality in the slightest.[00:16:00] 

PennyBridge: Yeah.

Radim Malinic: And it's surprising because obviously, not so surprising, could be naive to say surprising, but your work and you guys portray this impression of actually, we live in and dream in the amazing stuff that we do, but behind every studio, behind every creative, we are like a swan on the water that we are bopping and furiously paddling under the water.

how do you metabolize? this assault on senses that, it's meant to be a creative dream, but most of it seems very much stressful, overload and being under pressure. How do you guys support each other? How do you do it? Because you go on another, how do you cope with all of this?

PennyBridge: I must say that I feel like as well, all of those exact things that you mentioned. So the pressure and the stress, is probably in my whole career has been my biggest, inspiration and push to do better and to create. what I have created. Soit's like a double edged [00:17:00] sword really.

And, the thought of motion and, doing different things and pushing our design also fuels us. SoI think that's something that, while it does stress us the fuck out, it does also put a, a bit of a rocket up our butt. And then you can get excited about it when you start seeing the work that you're producing, like, holy shit, did we did that.

And so you, it kind of fuels onto the next project and having to push yourself and stretch yourself, doesn't seem as, scary anymore because you can,that at the end there's going to be something cool that you are proud of. But then if you want to talk about how do we support each other. Oh, no, I was just going to laugh because when you were talking about, I remember having a conversation with Kyle and I was like, how are you so relaxed right now? And exactly what you said before about, it was like, man, I'm a duck. And he's like, I'm, calm on the surface, but underneath I'm just kicking like hell.

[00:18:00] So I just had a little giggle to myself about that. But, yeah, I think it's just like, with those stresses and everything is, I don't know if there's any other industry that is as subjective as ours. So we're going to be hyper critical on our work before it goes out to the client.

And then the client's going to be hyper critical because. They're paying for it. So you've got to create this like perfect marriage of expectation, and then everybody agrees that is the right thing to go out. So, I think that's where a lot of the pressure and stress comes from is when we're talking about new levels, new devils is like, even in the last year, we've taken on some of the, what we would probably consider dream projects.

And you get them through the door and you get super excited about them. And you're like, cool, we've locked this in. We've wanted this. And then you're like, oh shit, we actually need to do the work now. Like we need to create, we need to rebrand, businesses that have been in our homes for 20, 30, 40 years.

that we've grown up with and then the pressure of doing that and doing it [00:19:00] justice is kind of like you're sitting there going, wow, this is a big deal. so we better get it right. So then, and that's only going to come with, those as you progress into bigger jobs and bigger roles, it's just the gravity of what you're doing is. Getting bigger, I think but I think just in terms of supporting each other, I think it's just communication, like the amount of times that,I'll come out of my office and I'm just like freaking out and everyone's just like, dude, it's going to be fine. Just felt like it's process, right? I think the biggest thing that's helped us is process and creating structures.

So then that way this is how we do things. Just get it to the next stage. If you're stuck, just call out that you're stuck. Team will come in and support and give you ideas. or you might need to throw something to a team member to help out or that's how we help each other.

Radim Malinic: I think as designers, what you mentioned there, I think as designers we are, and use the word subjective, like there's a subjective way of seeing the work, we trip ourselves up because [00:20:00] of our ambition. Like when you said, be doing rebrand for companies or for brands that have been in our lives for 20, 30, 40 years, that brand comes to you for something better.

They don't come for the superstar, shiny, Rolls Royce for solution. Most of the cases, because Everything's progressing in an evolutionary way. So we just need incremental improvement. Whereas as creatives, it's so easy to think like, shit, this is the gold medal, a hundred meter run, right?

We're going to marathon whatever distance you want to see it. And we put ourselves under so much pressure because almost get a sort of adrenaline fog and go like, okay, I need to deliver like, or over deliver. Like we need to keep everybody happy. And it some in a way draws us away from the process and the focus on the work because we put ourselves under pressure thinking we need to deliver, we need to do this.

Because there is a real and sort of interesting cognitive shift when you say, let me see what [00:21:00] we can do for these people. Let me see what can happen. Because as with the projects that comes into your inbox or you win it and you're like, okay, so this needs to be, This is the top of our portfolio.

This is what we stand for because in creative industry, we are only as good as the last project, 

it's the idea of like how to stop freaking the fuck out. As you said, like, how do you stop being stressful? When you flip it and say, look, we've got low expectation, but high resilience, like we will see what happens because when you expect high, you often have a low resilience because you put your focus in actually trying to achieve your best thing ever.

without necessarily looking after the whole process below. So it's almost like, how do you flip it? Like, it could be shit, but we can deal with it. Or it could be amazing. But if it's not, I'll lose my marbles. So it's this kind of way of how do we find myself some finance terms in the middle and go, okay, we got, just about right expectations actually work on it selflessly and think [00:22:00] this doesn't matter.

If it doesn't turn out the most amazing portfolio project, but it works, then maybe, this is not okay to be. working on it that way and have that expectation, like nullify the expectation rather than having, the undue stress or that sort of put ourselves under undue stress ourselves going, this needs to be great.

So how do you guys deal with a new inquiry like that? Do do you start running around and throwing things in the air?

PennyBridge: yeah, I think we have like mild freakouts and then I think like Paul said, it's just about process. Like, where do we start? How do we start? Let's get the strategy and the direction and the brief, like airtight before we even start designing. Mainly, like whenever a project's ever gone sideways for us, it's generally when a process gets abandoned.

Like I mean, touch wood, and I jinxed this the other day, Like we refined our process so well for branding that like [00:23:00] literally we were delivering one concept.and getting that one concept signed off first go.

And that we did that for a year without a hiccup.which I thought was pretty impressive. And then I said, I think we've, Hey, I think we've hit a year. And then our biggest project, well, my biggest project to date fell apart like a week later, but in fairness, when I say that, like that fell apart too, because the client didn't have time for our process.

So like. I think that's something that we just keep falling back into is like, all right, cool. Like, is looking at our process and like finding those, pillars of success and then trying to refine them, refine, refine until they're like, they work. and then, yeah, like we'll find out where things are falling apart and then try and fix it.

and then just keep continuing to do that. I mean, sometimes, that's great, but it's also trying to make sure that,with those guardrails that we're putting [00:24:00] in and with those, that process that we're putting in, we're still allowing ourselves to be creative too. Because it can get monotonous sometimes if you're just following the same rhythm every time.

Sometimes, different projects like you need to break out or you might need to do go and do something else. so that's probably why like when it comes to being generalists, I think that's where us doing murals and stuff comes in. nice to get away from the desk and use a paintbrush for a bit.

but yeah, that's how we solve. yeah, process is massive.previously, like before I merged with these guys, Like I did definitely had a process, but I would also just start designing and most of the time it turned out really good.

And, I'd always do the strategy sort of stuff beforehand, but, I think now we've kind of coming in here and then the guys are like, Oh, so we do these things called stylescapes where we show the client, three kind of really highly tailored mood boards to choose the direction.

I'm just like, but I've already drawn [00:25:00] it. And they're like, Oh yeah, but can we just try this? and I think that sort of helped us with getting all of those sign offs. for, for a good chunk of the past 12 months. so that definitely changed my mind about that because I'm usually like, I hear the brief and then the ideas in my head.

So I just start, but I need to pull on the reins a little bit. So I've learned that I can't, delve into that too much before I get the actual direction, the brief nailed, and then I can let loose. 

Insane, that loop. you doing those illustrations was the thing that saved us this week.

Yesterday, yeah. so. That's true. If he hadn't have done that, we would have been up shit creek for the first time in a while. But yeah, luckily Kyle had just like done these doodles and basically pulled them out for a client and was like, Oh, I hear what you're saying. Is this kind of what you're after?

And they're like, yeah. Oh, thank God. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.[00:26:00] 

Radim Malinic: Lucky accidents, but I was going to say you guys sound like you guys influence each other in a really good way. You got like almost polar opposite dynamic where you know, one is more sort of strategic one is more gung ho And that's what's needed I think that's like, you know sometimes you can play too safe and you can really double down on your process and be like We're gonna take it, steady have our checklist and sometimes you need to actually You Bend the rules a little bit, your internal rules, because when you talk about the generalism and, sometimes it's working for you, sometimes against, there is definitely opportunities to have a sort of a ways of working, but then inadapt them or amend them or change them, as the client requires, because if you do things as, as varied as murals and more sort of expressive work away from digital mood boards.

That could potentially play into the narrative of how you deal with your clients, how you deal with new work, because as a generalist on this side, I found that when I [00:27:00] renamed the branding process to visual storytelling, when it became, when it was still just a branding process, Very little focus was put on the logo itself.

It was more like, how do we talk to our customers? How do we talk to, the audiences? How do we put like almost like a more layers into the idea rather than, is the logo big enough? Is the shape right? And is this that? Cause I think it's this magnificent way of, what I took earlier, like, experiences, how you can actually influence the conversation rather than, hoping that.

you can pull up sketches and they'll save you, if that makes sense. So I think, I love that you've got this overlap, because if you were, two, not two peas in a pod, no? just in the same skill set and the same thinking and stuff, maybe that would not be as exciting, because you mentioned at the beginning of the conversation that you're still working out your roles.

You're still thinking, I know it's like a, it seems like a band that can, play one, one of you can play drums for one song and then you can swap around and play bass, it just sounds like [00:28:00] there's a way of doing this. And there is magic in this because I sometimes really struggle to think how a person can have a house style and do it for 20, 30 years and then they retire.

I don't understand that because I think the world is full of shiny objects, full of interesting things because you want to taste it. You want to try it. You want to find out how it works. So you being sort of yin and yang, how do you, How do you finalize or how do you set on the process to actually, to use it for the next client?

Like, do you have a formula that you figure out and you constantly improve or do you adapt it? How does your approach to new work, change or if it does?

PennyBridge: Yeah. So I think a lot of it's got to do with probably when it comes to the process side of things, it'd be probably more myself and Jordan. he's like the glue that's in between me and Kyle, I'd say he bounces in between that strategic brain and creative brain. [00:29:00] so he's probably the perfect conduit between the two of us.

And then I think it's just looking for those trades of success and then. just putting the creative process. It's like putting something down and following it and seeing if it works. And if it doesn't work, like throwing it out or if parts of it work, keep it.

but yeah. if stuff just isn't working, we just abandon it and just keep evolving. we wouldn't ever go, Oh, this is our process. And this is the only way we're ever going to do it. If it starts to not work or if we find a better way of doing things, we're always going to do it.

We're always looking for better ways to do things. I think even just the process of how we present the final branding to clients and stuff as well, like that's evolved over the past 12 months. it's like a full storytelling situation where we just take them through in baby steps and just explain the thinking and everything behind it.

And really powerful when you can do that, even when we haven't been part of [00:30:00] brands. And the team takes us through it. You're like, wow. Yeah, that's awesome. and even that is continually evolving as well. so we started putting like putting together brand videos basically to, Present the branding.

So the first thing that the client would see would be a video with music, motion, like actual, like we just get stock footage and that's obviously relevant to the client's industry and stuff. And then, present it that way and like, we've made a grown man cry and. It was really powerful doing that.

but then we also got to the point. It's like, all right, we're spending so much fucking time on these brand proposals that I don't think it's, commercially viable anymore. So now we pick and choose which ones we go the full brand video for and then just just the smaller brand jobs that.

are at the lower end of the scale. And even just the output that they require, we just make the logo move a bit and [00:31:00] present it that way. But we still always go through our thinking and why we did stuff and, tell them that story and show them that we've actually put thought into it.

Which we, we always do. We don't just, you know,grab shit off Firefly or anything.

Radim Malinic: How would you say, with your location in Palm Beach, do you work, have you got clients who are local? Are you, is there a local design scene that, you can tap into that, people see you doing a good work locally or is it Australia wide, you guys work internationally? What's it like to get clients in Palm Beach?

PennyBridge: Well, I think there's a bit of a, probably not as much anymore, but there is a bit of a stigma in Australia that, if you're not from the big capital cities, thenyou're not good enough to work with bigger clients and that sort of stuff. the Gold Coast itself is growing like massively.

especially through COVID, like a lot of people moved here because it was sunny and, nice. It's a nice place to, from work from home from. So there [00:32:00] is more like industrymoving here as well. But, like one of our goals is definitely to break out of the Gold Coast because at the moment, there is a ceiling here, I suppose.

Yeah, I'd say like a lot of our work is definitely local. and we do. like some nationwide brands and we have done work overseas as well, which is awesome. but yeah, like we used to have a very thriving creative community here. but it just all slowed down. I don't know exactly why. and there's still some really good agencies and some really good, designers on the coast.

And it feels like there's almost like a bit of a resurgence happening, which is really cool to hear. So, to Kyle's point, whether it's, population growth or whatever, but, I think COVID also has, had a lot to do with it. people have spread far and wide now.

And,people know that, You don't have to necessarily, work with the studio down the road to get really good output. So, or, a really good outcome. I honestly pinch myself like every day that we get to live and work where we do.

Yeah. and I think [00:33:00] what it is now is just showing the rest of the world and, Australia as well, like nationwide and globally, but. like who we are and even feel like why we live here and choose to stay on the Gold Coast and not, move to the big cities to work at a massive agency and then try and start our own agency in Sydney or Melbourne or Brisbane.it goes to show that we're is it trailblazers? No, that's the lamest shit. But we're with carving our own path, in the industry. So I think it goes to show that, it's probably a lot braver to stay here and to try and build a really professional and, world renowned design studio coming from the little Gold Coast.

 It's funny 

that I think because we're a street away from the beach, everyone thinks that we're surfing all the time. Yeah. when in reality, I think when we first moved the studio here, we thought that was going to be the case. but we're mostly chained to our desks.

I've been here for like almost a year and a half and I haven't been to the beach once during [00:34:00] work time

Radim Malinic: Oh, I think you need to fix that. 

I think when you talk about processes and the way you work, sometimes you can spend three hours, as you say, freaking the fuck out at your desk. Or you can spend an hour on your board thinking, how can I actually solve this because. I can understand being so close to a good thing and not actually tapping into it.

It's working from a place that you always wanted to be and you find yourself like, okay, I need to keep this up because Again, I think we put ourselves under undue pressure and sometimes, wrong perception of what we actually got, because I think half of your problems, and I feel like this is going to turn into a coaching session, but I think half of your problems could be solved on the board, by the beach, because

it's so easy to get chained to your desk, to focus on, the problem and think, it's going to take, 16 hours to work out.

Whereas if the clients give us the right time or we negotiate the [00:35:00] right time, you can split those 16 hours into eight days, two hours a day, and have a better idea every day as you go along. Because I can understand. I think the key in this conversation is under your pressure, like the strife and wanting to deliver amazing stuff.

It can comes with the anxiety from within, like this needs to happen. This needs to be good. This needs to be like, do we go to strategy? Like, how do we do it? So. There is something in this where, you know, trying to encourage you to go to the beach, if that makes

sense, because it's so beneficial because 

 it's more like, it's in a growth and having the confidence to say, you know what, if I take two hours. The world's not going to stop, there's ways of actually put back time by taking time out, if that makes sense. it can also work because you talked about people moving to Palm Beach during COVID, obviously the situation changes.

And I think that I've had lots of conversations on this podcast with people from cities where they are not necessarily always seen as a sort of design [00:36:00] meccas, being from Ottawa in Canada or that there's amazing creatives in places, hiding in places we aren't normally considered as.

Why, what, where, this is not, it's either capital city or it's not. And when you think of, The most amazing careers that came up pre iGeneration, and now today they circulate like other centuries. There was no such meccas of design. Obviously there were pockets of more people being in the same place.

But like, Shakespeare came from Stratford upon Avon. Like, that's not a capital city.it's where your talent takes you and how things are changing. Because, I think that there's been a shift since COVID where we can blur the boundaries a little bit, because I remember, let's say, pre COVID, I wouldn't really think of children interrupting my work call would be, acceptable.

Whereas in COVID, it was like, it's a shit show for everyone. Let's deal with it. like it's acceptable thing to do it now. I mean, my poor wife, sometimes my kids just literally ambush her in the middle of a really important call and she's [00:37:00] like, I'm working from home. Sorry about this.

we have this sort of different confidence and different acceptance because everything that we've created, our rules that we've created for ourselves, no one said, you can't do this. Like we are changing this. We are in charge of our own, ways, how we conduct ourself and how we work and stuff.

So that kind of leads me on to. You guys being parents, how do you juggle that bit with, obviously you sounds, I mean, I'm sure it doesn't sound as, as not as bad as it sometimes sounds on this call on this podcast, but how much stress can you leave at work in the office and go home and disconnect from Penny Bridge when you go and see your kids and your wife's partners?

PennyBridge: well As much as we can I suppose I know that I'm getting a lot better at that now, or I'm trying to be, I'm being a lot more conscious of it now. cause like my kids are a little bit [00:38:00] older, they're eight and twelve. So,they're a little bit more self sufficient now, which is good.

but they're also a little bit more, turning into teenagers and just being turds. But I try a lot more now, I think, to try and separate, and I think because, previously, it was all just all in my head, like, the whole business was all in my head, and now, we at least have three heads that are trying to, figure out the same problem, so it's not as much pressure.

For me, I'm sure like Paul's sitting here just probably going, fuck off, it's still the same amount of pressure. Yeah, I honestly can't speak to that. I'm absolutely shocking. I'm at that point where I just, I can't turn off.and it's one of those funny things when you're with family and you're with people that you love and you start to unwind is generally when, you're most creative as well, or you're like, I've come to the realization that what we do is [00:39:00] we solve problems, that's generally what we do.

and generally you can solve the. biggest problems when you're relaxed. So generally I find myself solving a lot of problems when I'm at home and then trying to have to write it down or, jumping onto my computer or jumping on my phone or something like that. So it's actually like not, yeah, I'm not good at it.

my wife is constantly on me about it and I've even asked my oldest son, to like, literally, if I'm on my phone, in front of you, like, you say, mate, get off your phone. And he's been brilliant for it lately. So he's only four though. So like for him to have to do that is pretty, but yeah, I think it's just symptomatic of like us caring so much about what we do.

which is a good and a bad thing, I guess. Yeah, it's definitely a sacrifice. So. A lot of people, will say to me like, Oh my God, I can't believe you've done all this stuff and done all that. [00:40:00] And I want to do what you want to do. I want to do what you do. And I'm like, that's sweet.

But it's a huge sacrifice both on yourself, on your relationships,on your family. So I think the other thing is that it's not sustainable either. like we'll paint a ceiling at like 5am a month ago. Like, Just stupid stuff like that. Just cause you're like, yeah, this is such a cool project.

Let's do it. And then you throw yourself in the pits of it and then realize like. That's an entire night away from your family and then you've got to literally drive home at the crack of dawn to get them to school. The sun was coming up. Yeah, we had to leave to drive back from Brisbane to the Gold Coast so I could take my kids to school.

there's. You're not painting a very good picture are you? I know, but then also that's not all the time. Like we're not always doing that and we're trying to, even like me and Jordan, keep yelling at Paul to go home and get out of the office. You don't answer that email.

Radim Malinic: There

PennyBridge: So 

I think we're, we try and support each other. And I think [00:41:00] even,you were saying before about just getting out for a couple of hours or going to the beach, like I know even just this morning, like I got up early, took the dog to the beach, went for a swim and just my whole like attitude to today was a lot better than what it was yesterday.

So, it's just a fucking juggle. But, we don't, no one's got it figured out, do they? 

I 

Radim Malinic: I think. There's a huge cognitive dissonance because when you're just grabbing Paul about unwinding and getting ideas and jumping on the phone and stuff, it's because when you are chained to your desk, when you're in that sort of pressure cooker of a studio, you, your mental checklist of things you need to do is very much focused on just sort of on that survival instinct.

Because many people will say, Oh, when I'm driving or when I'm having a shower, whatever my ideas come to me, there's no such thing as a magical shower that we're just going to, give you a sort of creative space. It's just that we've turned down the noise in other [00:42:00] places, cause you're not exactly, fixing stuff in your shower, you're not answering emails.

So actually we have space. So. taking time away from our desk, taking time from the studio. It's so essential yet we are so incapable of doing so because we are always focused on the survival instinct that goes to scarcity of resources. So we think that, if we are not answering an email or not keeping a client happy, that's the end of it all.

And being a studio, being a freelancer, bigger studios, bigger problems, bigger levels, bigger devils, I would say. There's no manual to create a business because as every outcome can be so different, we treat it differently. So there's like, if you drive a bus from A to B, you know where you need to be at what time, like your life is predictable.

Whereas if it creates, if you go create a project and someone says, yeah, you guys had a good run of a year of signing things up on the first throw. No, let's change this. everything throws you out of, out of whack, So you might have. I'm sure you might be, spurred by your partners to have a [00:43:00] perfect time, time sort of plan.

Like, okay, so what time schedule are you in for your projects? And you're like, I can have an ideal plan, but I can get stuck on something for five hours, which I wasn't planning. I wasn't planning five minutes for this. like, I think the unpredictability of a creative world, creative work is.

part of what we do. So it's like you can never really have the right balance and coming from work, What is the right buffer between metabolizing what just happened to actually be just a present parent, present dad, because you can find yourself working less and freaking out about earning enough money, but I'm with my kids, but I'm actually freaking out because it's like, It's never a happy formula and in a way because like no one finds that sort of absolute equilibrium to say I've got it all sorted out because whoever you talk to, everyone in some way hasn't got it figured out.

Everyone in some way is not doing something in the place they wish they were doing better. So it's [00:44:00] like, We can see these sort of ideal influencer lives or whatever, like whoever's not pretending to have it right. No one's got it right. It's just, that's the sort of common line that, everyone pretends that they've got it right and they don't.

PennyBridge: No, it's like juggling tacos. 

 it's,

Radim Malinic: Mess.

PennyBridge: Yeah.

Radim Malinic: I think it should be the name of the episode, Juggling Tacos. I've never heard that expression. I absolutely

PennyBridge: Oh, I've never heard that. I've been working with him for a year and I haven't heard that before. 

I don't even know where it came from. I'll just say I made it up. Yeah. Sure.

Radim Malinic: I'm glad to get the best out of you right now, How do you guys plan for the future? Obviously, because you don't want to be juggling tacos forever and ever.

do you have, a sort of studio strategy? Do you have an ideal clientele? Do you have a five year plan? Because the reason why I say it, you speak to people like Max from Ragged Edge and they have their strategy. they know what they want to do and they know what they don't want to do. as a [00:45:00] generalist studio, you kind of blur the edges again, like we want, we know what we want to do.

And if this comes through and it keeps the lights on, maybe we'll do that too. So in terms of, Penny Bridge, the beast that you guys build in, where do you head in? Do you know where you head in? And, what's the plan?

PennyBridge: we're literally sitting right next to this massive whiteboard with all of this strategy, numbers, clients. grand scheme of things. I think we're still figuring out, I think this is like where the whole unconventional brands thing comes in. It was like, we tried to narrow down who we wanted to work with and then we realized like, it's not necessarily like certain kinds of businesses, but more so like certain kinds of people.

and how they like want to work and in their industries. So we didn't want to be industries specific, so to speak. So that was like a big turning point for us. And then, that kind of came through when we would re branding. and then when we were going [00:46:00] through the rebrand too, I kept saying yes to red flag clients for that exact reason, like trying to keep money coming through the door and like part of the brief for the rebrand was basically like, I just said to the guys, like, I need something that's going to like, as I'm sending out a proposal, it's going to look me back in the face and be like, yeah,this doesn't align with our values.

Do not send this proposal or, don't send this quote out. Just let them know that they're not a good fit and let's move on. cause I've done that a few times where I've sacrificed the time and resource in the studio thinking that we needed that job,to get revenue in the door only for a perfectly good project to come in right behind it.

And then we try and take on both and then.that one that we took on just ends up being an absolute shit fight. so yeah, we were slowly starting to figure out who we want to work with, which is great. And then, yeah, in terms of creating that long term strategy, we're, still trying to figure out how people go project to project.

So [00:47:00] we're trying to, spread our load a little bit more and kind of working with Clients trying to work with them a little bit more longterm and figuring out how that works. because we've got a growing studio and you always feel like if anyone's part of your team, you feel responsible for them and their salary and everything like that.

So,we want to try and live by our values, but run as a fledgling studio at the same time. So it's that balance between making sure that the revenue is coming in and that the clients that you're taking on are aligned with those values. And so I guess to your point, like if we could show you this big whiteboard that's sitting next to us is like a long list of clients that we've worked with that we want to continue to work with.

And trying to figure out how we do that more and support them ongoing. Because I think that's one thing with branding is like,a lot of people will finish the project and just hand everything over and go off you go and then get upset when [00:48:00] the client doesn't follow the brand to a t.

whereas we've found if we can continue that relationship and just, even if it's not, a huge involvement, but still just a little, then we can help guide them and continue to like, see their strategies through, which I guess helps them grow and then, allows us to follow our strategy, so to speak.

Yeah. And even just to continue, there's certain clients that we've got that we just love working with. So. We want that to be the norm.there's a couple of clients that we do have that are like just a punish and we don't want that in the studio.

it's kind of brings the bad vibes. So we definitely try and, always lean back onto our values and,pick and choose. Yeah. Where we go from there. and, Paul's pretty good at it now. He's like, I don't know about this client. Does this, is this a red flag to you?

And then Jordan and I'll just be like, yes, hell yes. Let's not work with that [00:49:00] guy. Yeah. Unless it's like triple the price and then we'll work with him.

And then you find yourself, the two negatives doesn't equal positive, That's true. Yeah, it's true.

Radim Malinic: I think what you guys are doing incredibly well is to actually have a sort of living and breathing brand yourself, like lots of studios. and I'm kind of guilty of that myself, sound serif instead of a logo on the top left corner of the website, that will do, let's let the work speak for itself.

And I think a lot of people are guilty for thinking they will attract the right type of clients by being vanilla, like I'm, I don't have a voice, I don't have a particular sort of brand myself, they might be thinking like that I can play, I can step in the background, like that Homer Simpson meme, when he just walks back in the bushes, but hoping that they are being visible. And what you guys do when I look at your website and I've been scanning throughout this conversation, It's got energy, it's got vibe, it's got feeling, I think if I was [00:50:00] to work with Penny Bridge, I know what to expect in a way, I mean,it's nice. That you can almost afford to be unique entity away from, let's say big city corporate, no more corporate, reliant studios where, you have to keep mortgage paid by, for a lot more people than just a few.

And sometimes you don't necessarily make the decisions for the right reason. Whereas I think you're doing it in a way where, we talked about punk rock and we talk about DIY style, and there is a nice edge to what you guys do, it feels like that there is something like you guys shape in what the future of design could be, and I know that you guys work with.

Made by James Martin, on his sort of branding style. And obviously he puts big focus on what he can be as a designer and creative and educator in a way, how you can actually perceive, a formation or style of a personal brand. Like obviously you've got it going on for yourself.

Obviously you've helped him to do this and [00:51:00] it's a shakeup. I think it's an interesting shakeup because when you see. you're novice designers, and I'm sure we are all guilty of it ourselves where, you start, you go freelance and you cobble together a first logo and go like, Hey, do you like this?

 if you can go back to yourself, those 15, 20 years ago, be like, yeah, you need a lot more than just a, a sans serif type, or you need more, a lot more than this, because we constantly on this journey, adding layers to our armour. I didn't lay it to my expression, putting our soul out there to make sure that people understand who we are for and what we stand for and what we do.

So it's great to hear that, there's a vision, there's a plan. And I think the role of a generalist sometimes takes you into places that sometimes it would prevent you not being a generalist. If you were sort of industry or sector specific, then you might pigeonhole yourself into a sort of narrow path that could be lucrative, but would it be interesting?

I think that's the question. 

PennyBridge: Yeah. I guess to that point, it's kind of funny because like you say, you look at our website and you kind of know what to expect, but I think a lot of [00:52:00] people might do that and they come into the studio and see the, the skateboards and everything on the walls. And there's that kind of painted picture of who we are, but then we get into a meeting room and start talking like, what's, you What's your business strategy?

What's your brand strategy? Have you thought about your launch plan? Have you thought about this? And all of a sudden they're like, holy shit, these guys know business too. And we're not just like, we've got all that stuff because we enjoy it. and that's like us representing ourselves, but,I think sometimes we get underestimated, as to what we know, and I think that's where that unconventionally professional thing comes in, and honestly, I think that's our superpower, and I think a lot more studios should,lean into who they are, because I feel like as soon as prior to this rebrand, when we first did that was a massive turning point.

And then now that we've gone deeper again, yeah, I feel like it's been pretty big for us. then yeah, to work with guys like James as well, has been epic cause he [00:53:00] understands all that stuff. it's definitely a bit of a feather in the cap being out to rub shoulders with.

Lots of those guys and even work with them. and I think that does come from the effort and the not just from the career up to this date, but the effort that we put into our brand and to show our personality quite strongly in it. it was a bold move to cause it could put a lot of people off too.

Yeah, when we launched that website at the start of this year, we were like, Is this too much? Is this too much? And I still look at it and go, is it too much? But, it's one of those things, like if you've got a client inquiring and they like it. then you already know that they're for you. Sweet. Yeah. And like you just, you kind of sell them as well. So they just know what to expect. And so there's no surprises except for good surprises. Pleasant surprises. Pleasant surprises. Yeah. We're all about pleasant surprises. Hell yeah.

Radim Malinic:  [00:54:00] Hi Daddy. Ah, One Way Bottom Later. That's how you juggle parenting and podcasting.

PennyBridge: you were telling us to wrap up in one minute, but you were just like,

I'll obey one minute. 

Radim Malinic: I'm sorry. Back in one minute. Yeah. I'm keeping this one in. Yeah, my boy was calling because he was on the toilet. yeah, 

PennyBridge: that. That's awesome. 

Can we leave that in? have to

leave that 

in. 

Radim Malinic: stays in. Yeah, we keep it in. guys, it's been a pleasure to actually hear your story. It's actually nice to know more and hopefully to actually encourage you to stick with what you're doing, because there's no such thing as too much, it's how much of you want to project.

And I think you're doing it Really well. And it's, it sticks out. And I think it was a Bill Bernbeck quote that if you stand for something, you will have people who will go with you. If you stand for nothing, you'll have nobody against you. And I think, I reckon I made a mess of that [00:55:00] quote. 

but it was really like, it's only a question of time when something starts to work.

And I mean, It feels really troubling and insecure to double down on who you are and be the odd one out and stand for your values because It might be harder to find clients at first, but then when it gets going, actually it gives you amazing runway and an experience. Whereas if you try to keep everyone happy, you're keeping no one happy.

And I think that's what you guys do. And it's, it feels amazing. It gives me sort of vibe. It's dynamic. I think it's, yeah, I'm only excited to see what happens next with Benebrite. So well done. And thank you for spending time with me today.

PennyBridge: No worries. Thank you for having us. Appreciate it. Thanks for all your kind words too. Yeah, I might just keep them and just put them on repeat when I need it. we'll have this queued up on the studio speakers, 

whenever we start like questioning ourselves. 

Radim Malinic: Thanks mate. [00:56:00] Thank you for listening to this episode of Creativity for Sale podcast. The show was produced and presented by me, Radek Malanich. Editing and audio production was masterfully done by

Mackay from Seven Million Bikes Podcasts.

 Theme music was written and produced by Robert Summerfield. If you enjoyed this episode and would like to support the podcast, please subscribe and leave a rating or review.

 To get your own action plan on how to start and grow a life changing creative business. You can get a copy of the Creativity for Sale book via the links in show notes. burning, and until next time, I'm Radim Malinich, your guide through this exploration of passion, creativity, innovation, and the boundless potential within us all.