Alex Center shares his journey from insecure art student to founder of his eponymous design studio. Growing up in the '90s, he discovered confidence through art classes and developed a relationship with brands that made him feel important. 

After a disillusioning internship at the New York Knicks, he found his calling at Vitamin Water, working alongside marketing legends like Rohan Oza and eventually collaborating with Collins on a major rebrand. The pivotal moment came when Brian Collins refused to validate his decision to start a studio, instead telling him "it needs to come from inside you." 

Seven years later, Center has built 25+ brands from scratch, earning international recognition not by working with the biggest brands, but by creating the brands of the future—challenging the status quo and helping people belong.

Daring Forever. Podcast with Radim Malinic

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Alex: [00:00:00] People want to work for people that care. People want to work, alongside people of that, care and. I don't know what's right or wrong. I don't know if your brand is gonna be a success.

 we just have to make thousands of decisions. And all I know is that if you don't care, then you're not gonna make the right ones. But if you're doing it from a place of true care and caring about the result because you want it to be success, not because you want it to be successful for monetary reasons, or you want it to be successful for award reasons, but because you really care about it being good or you really care about being, as good as it possibly can, it will only lead you to places that I've been really, privileged and grateful to be at this place in my career 20 years in where I can sit in front of a bunch of awards and work and if I can point to anything and be like, [00:01:00] here's my secret. It's because I care a lot. 

Welcome to the Daring Creativity Podcast, a show about daring to forever explore creativity that isn't about chasing shiny perfection. It's about showing up with all your doubts and imperfections and making them count. It's about becoming more of who you already are. My name is Radim Malinic I'm a designer, author, and eternally curious human being.

 I am talking to a broad range of guests who share their stories of small actions that sparked lifetime discoveries, taking one step towards the thing that made them feel most alive. 

 Let me begin this episode with a question. Are you ready to discover what happens when you dare to create? 

Radim Malinic: today I'm talking to Alex Centre, who's a designer, podcaster, and the founder of the award-winning design and branding [00:02:00] studio Centre. having worked for the Coca-Cola company helping build brands like Vitamin Water, power Rate, and Smart Water. Today he and his team at Centre are building the next generation of iconic brands.

 in our conversation, Alex shares his journey of an insecure art student growing up in the nineties, as he discovered confidence through art classes and developing a relationship with brands that made him film important. after an eye-opening internship under New York next.

He found his calling at Vitamin Water working alongside marketing legends on campaigns and rebrands for the last seven years, Centre has built 25 plus brands from scratch earning international recognition, not by working with the biggest brands.

But by creating brands of the future, challenging the status quo and helping people belong. It's my pleasure to share with you My conversation with Alex Centre, 

Radim: Hey [00:03:00] Alex, how are you doing? Welcome to the show.

Alex: how's it going?

Radim: Alex, for those who may have never heard of Centre Alex Centre and everything that you do, how would you introduce yourself?

Alex: my name is Alex and Centre is my real last name in the name of the design studio that I started seven years ago. I'm a designer and I'm a founder and a podcaster and a human being.

Radim: how would you describe your journey into discovering, branding and brands?

Alex: Yeah. I think when I was growing up, I didn't really know what a brand was. I didn't know what a designer was. I just knew that in the classroom of art, people treated me differently and I didn't have,I had a lot of hobbies. I played sports. I played the drums. I liked to snowboard, like I did a whole bunch of different activities.

I did them all. Pretty mediocrely. I would say, no noticeable talents in any of those arenas. But in the art classroom, my teachers were nice to me. The other students looked at me and in a way that made me feel confident, that made me feel special. And [00:04:00] I think that was sort of where I first early diagnosed the fact that this may be something that made me feel good about myself.

And, this was the nineties, and so being an artistic person, especially a guy, there weren't a ton of them in my, in my grade. I was one of the very few amounts of people. And, for me, I just knew that this was a path that I wanted to pursue. And, a path that,teachers encouraged me.

I had good, arts, teachers and people that encouraged my talents and said, Hey Alex, this is something that you have. yeah. A little bit of skill and you excel in and you should kind of pursue.

Radim: Was there peer pressure from. You know the snowboarders from the dramas from anyone who would call themselves more than mediocre, and then you were excelling in art classes. Was there peer pressure?

Alex: I don't know if it was peer pressure. I just think, when you're a sort of young person, maybe insecure, unsure of themselves trying to find their way, I think I was looking for something that made me feel better [00:05:00] than myself. And so I think it was a combination of those art classrooms.

And then I think when I found brands or I started wearing clothing that made me feel special or made me feel important or made me feel better, gave me some confidence that I realized that yeah, there was a relationship that I had with these logos or these brands that I made, that I wasn't, aware of or I only put this together later when I was in college and started was introduced to the idea of design and what a graphic designer does that I even started to find out that there was a job where I could work as a commercial artist working for a brand or working with a brand.

And so that was really where my journey begins.

Radim: What was your upbringing like? Were you surrounded by creativity? What did your parents do?

Alex: So my father is a dentist and he had his own, practice. And so that was, something I quickly also diagnosed. That wasn't for me. Like I was not gonna be a doctor or dentist or, any, and looking in people's mouths was not a future that I wanted. [00:06:00] And my mother actually is a, was a painter and a calligrapher.

So, she was the one that introduced me to during a painting. And when I was growing up,we had these things called hobbies. It was before the internet and before, sort of a Netflix. And, one of those hobbies was setting up still life in my kitchen and breaking out, charcoals or pencils and, even sometimes paint and watercolor and just trying to capture,a fruit basket, as realistically as possible.

And this is something that I did with my mother when I was a kid. And, it was something that we did for fun.

Radim: Amazing. I just wonder like how many still life paintings with fruit baskets have actually ever been created in a life of humanity? because that just seems like before anything else, there's just a lot of fruit baskets, every painting in oil color.

Alex: that's right. Yeah. Millions. I would hope. I would hope. But I don't know that's something that kids do these days. I don't. Maybe they do and maybe they do with their iPads and their,apple pencils.

Radim: [00:07:00] I think it's more it's the influences, isn't it? Like you've got a, you've got a product placement and you can replace it into your hyper curated life and then like you create, still live pictures in a different way. But when you think about the food baskets, was the I mean, was the life dull before Netflix

No, I think it was, we were more connected, right? Like we were, we, were, we, yeah. I think back on these years very fondly, and I think it's My journey to finding something that I love to do, both as a hobby and as something that I wanted to do professionally. And I think that's the sweet spot, I think for any creative professional is like finding that space where you can do something that you love to do and also you can make a living from it.

Yeah, absolutely right. I mean, we were definitely a lot more mindful because there was a lot less noise, so you could actually focus on what you're doing, what you're looking at, what you're tasting. it was slightly simpler and more, as you said, more connected life.

Alex: Yeah, and I think it's something that my mother and I shared. She [00:08:00] like,so as I mentioned, did calligraphy, so I sort of saw her love of doing lettering and typography and so she could do various different styles of, scripts and bubble letters and all these kind of different things and. Was certain, certainly something that I was, drawn to and something that I was interested in.

Yeah. Again, as just a kid, and I, I think about this a lot as, kids these days grow up making their own mix tapes or making their own magazines and fashion lines, and they're exposed to a creative suite of tools, on computers at, very young ages. And I didn't, start working on in Photoshop until I was, yeah, I guess in my later years of high school and really college.

So I think that ability to do things and learn those skills or even just explore and experiment younger is interesting to me because I think it just allows people to sort of find design and this profession or this job, or this hobby [00:09:00] earlier. And I think there's just more designers than ever before because of that.

Radim: Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think with everything that know has been technologically creative with the advances, you can be pretty good designer pretty quickly. I've had a portfolio from someone who said, oh, I've been designing since I was 13. I'm 18. I'm self-taught and the portfolio.

Fucking mind blowing. Absolutely mind blowing. And I'm like, what this is on paper. if I was to hide the CV part of the portfolio, it would be like that's a 25, 30-year-old person who's got 10 year in industry experience. And I think that really good foundation can be achieved with so little these days because we have created basic tools so good that you can really turbocharge that development stage.

'cause it took us time to work it out and we made it easy for somebody else now.

Alex: Yeah. And you also have to make a ton of bad shit to find something that works. And I think for me, that was happening in college [00:10:00] in my early twenties. I think to your point, people start at 10 and they just are doing reps and making a whole bunch of junk and that's really important, right?

Like you have to go through that journey of finding your style or finding what you enjoy doing and just learning. And I think, yeah, the earlier that you can find that, the better you'll be.

Radim: You mentioned that you felt empowered by the world of brands. like putting on a certain jumper associated with certain sort of clothing brand made you feel, something and I've been mul it over for quite a while in terms of how we go about self-acceptance, how we go about worth or like how we think about ourselves, and sometimes when our self-esteem is not the strongest.

Certain people like that logo, let's say the Armani logo or the Gucci logo, to be as big as possible because that means that they've achieved certain [00:11:00] status for themselves. They've achieved certain potentially certain acceptance, and they hope to be seen by others in a certain way. And it was only just recently when I've actually linked it back to how young designers want to work with Coca-Colas and Pepsis and Nikes, because it's 

 perception of oh, if I work with this company, I will be accepted for who I am. Therefore, that will give me another, badge of approval.

Alex: A thousand percent. Like it's a sign of success. It's a sign of making it, it's a sign of working, as a professional, in achievement,making, an achievement of some sort. And that puts value into who you are. I think we as people are constantly, it's one of the first questions you get asked to the party, Hey, what do you do for a living?

Who, what do you do for work? and I think that's the first, entry point for a lot of conversations is what do you do? And I think, being a designer at Nike or being a designer at Coca-Cola, yeah, for me, seemed like that was the dream. That was the my dream job was to be the creative director [00:12:00] for the New York Knicks, my favorite basketball team.

So it's like this, these were signs of success. These are signs of value or these are signs of importance as much as they were sort of dream jobs. And I think, that is ultimately, a big part of what drew me to working. Directly for a brand or directly with, something that was a part of culture that people knew that wasn't just a design studio or a creative shop that was maybe known by, a sliver of people on planet Earth, but instead of working for one of the world's most famous brands.

And I still think that way today. Like I want to work with the biggest brands and work and create work that touches the most amount of people.

Radim: I am gonna circle back on this one later because I don't think you need to, you already, you're creating brands of the future. You're creating a whole new universe. You don't need the bigger stuff. But you mentioned it, potentially you wanted to be a creative director for the Knicks when you were quite close to start that path as a, as it was it apprentice, junior,

 intern at Nicks,

Alex: [00:13:00] That's right. Yeah. It was my first job as a creative professional because in my mind, that was the dream. And so, when I was in college, I lived about 45 minutes, from Madison Square Garden, where the next play and where the offices are, and I applied and 

Radim: 20 years ago. that was my first time in design meetings. It was my first time as a, working with other designers, seeing how creative directors, both create, the work that they do and also presenting it to, internal teams, going to meetings and seeing just how design is bought and sold inside of an organization.

so being thrown in deep end. Which part of got you excite and which part was slightly not sad, but there must have been a bit of reality that you realize, okay, is this how creativity works? Because you expect everything to be fireworks and amazing stuff. And then you realize, oh, you have compromise with people. You have to do things in a way that are not always your own vision, is that you have to sort of play by rules in a way.

Alex: Yeah, no, [00:14:00] for sure. I remember the office like. In my head, it was like this sort of playground or sort of this beautiful,designed, office, and it was literally a closet. And like I had to wear, I had to dress up. There was a dress code I had to wear like a shirt, a dress shirt and a tie and slacks.

And so I had to dress because it was a professional organization. And despite the fact that I was just, I was a creative on the team, I had to wear, of a, I had to look the part. And so commuting on the train, wearing, a suit to go and make, flyers, for, ticket season, ticket holder events and things like that.

It's, it feels a little less glamorous than maybe what you have in your brain as I'm gonna be a designer working for my favorite basketball team. And, yeah, it was certainly. I think it was definitely a great experience and then, but also some eye-opening moments.

And I think part of it also was seeing how the sausage is made [00:15:00] behind the scenes of something that you love, takes away some of the magic, right? Like you don't wanna meet your heroes kind of thing. And it was for me, getting the job and working for the Knicks in my head I had made it seem like this amazing thing.

But in reality it's like kind of a thankless thing because, sports franchises make a lot of money and none of that is determined by how well the tickets are designed. It's very much, impacted by how well the team plays on the court. And I think, the designers and the creative team weren't. treated as royalty in any way, shape or form.

They were, again, stuffed in a closet and oh, yep, we need new ticket designs for this year. And like, there wasn't a ton of,respect or, appreciation or really, enthusiasm for, design as a vehicle for change and for brand and for the value of what, we were doing.

Radim: I appreciate your honesty

Alex: Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, again, it's like you think. [00:16:00] In your head, it's gonna be this magical, amazing experience where I'm gonna be shaking hands with all the players and I'm gonna be in the locker room, or, you're gonna be courtside in Madison Square Garden with Spike Lee and, you're in a closet wearing a suit, sweating and, designing some posters for, basically, events just to placate the people that pay the most amount of money in the summer.

Radim: I wonder how many people have given up on, wanting to intern for their favorite basketball team by now.

Alex: I know I shouldn't talk, so much shit about it because I still do love, like working in sports and also, again, bringing things that I'm into in my personal life, into the work that I do here at the studio.

Radim: I wouldn't say it's talking shit. I think this is how situation was 20 years ago. I remember 25 years ago when I started my first job, I thought I was the superhero on day one and then realized thatlegs, Luther and Kryptonite is waiting for me in forms of clients deadlines, politics [00:17:00] changes, whatever.

You're like, oh, I was expecting this to be real good. No, the reality is totally different,

but I.

Alex: reminded me actually of something. I actually, I, if I recall correctly, and this is, you just jogged the memory I haven't thought about in a long time. I actually remember trying to rebrand the Rangers 'cause it's the New York Knicks and the New York Rangers. They're both owned by the same, company.

And I remember like actually trying to change some of the logo marks. I guess I was just a brash kid and I was thinking like, oh yeah, I'm a designer for the team. I can start, messing with some of their identity and proposing new solutions. And they were like. Yeah, that's so far out of the possibility of what you're brought here to do.

Like why are you messing with the iconic logo of the New York Rangers and trying to simplify it or change it or, make any adjustments whatsoever. You're literally an intern and, That is not your job,

Radim: [00:18:00] don't you love that naive positivity that you're thinking like, I'm here to sort the world. like I've been here for two days, but can I change the logo? 'cause I think I should.

Alex: yeah. I know this logo's been, around for, probably 60 years, but, I'm, this is my first day and I think, if I could just make a couple alterations, I think it's probably will be best for the team moving forward. Yeah, for sure.

Radim: Absolutely love it. I know that the company that you work for next has showed up in one of the meetings in the form of a drink for one of the executives that you admired her presentation style and her gusto for her work.

And that was vi what we call it, vitamin Water by, it's a Vitamin Water, right?

Alex: correct. Yes.

Radim: All right. So Magic Liquid, tell us a story.

Alex: yeah. Again, like it's the summertime I'm wearing a suit in a meeting that I'm not really, that necessary in. And I just remember watching, 'cause I was so, interested, intrigued, and [00:19:00] curious about the roles of different people within an organization and the way that they interacted with each other, right?

And the way that, the brand team interacted with the design team, which interacted with some of the marketing people. And it was just all really interesting to me and. in one of those meetings, the head of marketing for the New York Rangers came in and she really was in control of this meeting.

Like she was, leading in terms of, giving direction and she was calling all the shots. And I just thought She felt so confident to me. I think as a kid, right, you're just in awe of people that have opinions can clearly communicate them and seem like they're just, effortless in terms of their beliefs and what they know is right.

and watching this woman have this kind of impact over a room of people that everyone just got quiet and listened and was so, respectful but also just was guided by her [00:20:00] aura and decisions. And she was drinking a Vitamin Water focus.

And at this moment in my life, I had never seen Vitamin Water before. It was, the first time in this moment that I had seen this drink and, I grew up drinking on iced tea and Coca-Cola and I was unfamiliar and it said focus on the front and I was just like. is this the reason why she is so, incredible?

is this the secret to her success? And obviously, it wasn't, but it was something that from that moment on, I was intrigued with the design. I was intrigued with, the taste of Vitamin Water, and then went back and, tried to go and find as many different flavors as I possibly could in, any store that I, would find myself in.

And yeah, vitamin Water was, at this moment entering in the cultural consciousness. 50 cent was a big part of that. He was one of the biggest rappers in the world at this moment. So it's like discovering a band, right? You start to, hear it or it's just like immediately became.

A big part of my life. And, I became a [00:21:00] fan instantly because it was such a delicious drink. Still is. And the design of it really spoke to me. It was just bold and simple and, yeah, it was really different than anything else I'd ever seen before.

Radim: Before we talk about our next step, I wanna talk about the person, because you talk basically, you said how confident she was, Did you take anything from her presence Because personally, the reason why I ask you that question,I retrospectively looking at the things that I wanted to achieve in my career, were not always oh, I want to work for the brand.

It was like, I wanna be as connected as certain person. I wanna be as confident as that person. I wanna be eloquent as that person. And the story is potentially about just the discover of a new brand. But was her presence in any way showing you possibilities of what you could do in your future career?

Alex: Yeah, I think for sure. I think I've, throughout my career, I've worked for a lot of really impressive marketers. Creative leaders and [00:22:00] every time I would be in a meeting with anyone that, seemed to just flow effortlessly, their ideas, their confidence, their beliefs, and maybe they weren't always right.

 Who knew if they were right or wrong, but they had an opinion and they believed in it, and they stuck with it, and they didn't waver on it. And I think at this time, especially when I was younger, I was just kind of forming my creative voice, but I wasn't sure of anything. I was like, oh, I like this, or maybe this is good.

I made this. I think it's,I think it's interesting, or I think it could be interesting for this event, or I, I just didn't have that sort of sense of self or self, confidence or belief in what I was doing. And I think I just watched these people that, they were so sure of themselves and they were so sure of the decisions that they were making.

And that confidence and that sort of sense of self made everyone else in the room believe in them. no one questioned them because of the way that they presented themselves, but the way that they [00:23:00] approached every decision creatively. And I think one of the people that really, for me was probably the most important person for, in that way was a man by the name of Rohan Oza.

Rohan was a sort of a VP of marketing at Vitamin Water when I was there. Has later gone on to form Cavo Ventures, which has been behind, poppy and, watermelon water and pop chips and a million other brands. And he was a guest shark on Shark Tank a couple years ago. And so Rohan is,an absolute legend in the world of branding and marketing.

 People call him the brand father. And when I was at Vitamin Water, and I was, again, this, that was my first job after that internship, I just graduated school, got a call to get, an interview for Vitamin Water, which was, again, coincidentally the brand that I'd seen last summer.

 I applied on a job board that had no listing of what the job was. It was just looking for a creative designer to work [00:24:00] in-house on a beverage brand. And I got a call from a recruiter. I went in and I got a job working for Vitamin Water in 2006. And Rohan at this moment is. He is the leader of that place and every decision, creatively, marketing brand, everything.

he just, he instinctively knew what was right, always. And he was sometimes, straightforward about it. He was, he didn't cut corners, he wasn't shy. There were some moments where, he said some things to me that certainly stick with me that I won't say on the program. but, no, he was,he was confident.

 he knew what was the right thing to do for Vitamin Water and what the brand was and what it wasn't. And I just always, was in awe of that. Self-assuredness and confidence in his own beliefs and instincts.

I mean, it must have been amazing to work with people who believe in themselves and commanding the room and actually showing the direction to all the others. And [00:25:00] of course,the mid two thousands or the pre mental health faith that, we now, luckily engage with, some of the stuff that was said and done horrendous, Yeah, I mean, it was a different time and I, again, I hold nothing,I think so fondly of my, those years there. But yeah, I mean, it was a different time and, the way that people, yeah, reviewed creative work was maybe a little bit less, soft around the edges.

Radim: You know what I've learned? I've learned that usually angry people are, are lacking the eloquence because they can't focus in the moment.

Alex: Yeah, sure. Maybe what I was doing wasn't great for that one project for Vitamin Water energy, maybe it just wasn't the right solution. and it's funny, like again, this is my first job and I'm 22 years old and I'm just quite literally learning the ropes and be a professional designer with a cubicle and a business card and an email address.

And all this is still so new to me. And I think I looked up to those [00:26:00] people that were in my mind, brilliant adults, and they were, and they were 31, and my head, they were, they knew everything and they had all the right answers, and they had all the right instincts. And the brand was on fire, right?

it was it doing hundreds of millions of dollars a year? It was in every bodega. It was part of the li the culture. It was a lifestyle brand. Before people were ever saying the word lifestyle brand, it was. Something really special and unique and different, and I really cherish those years and now that I'm, I have more distance from them.

I can really understand the value that they provided for me both in that moment and the lessons that I learned and bring with me today.

Radim: was the dress code a little bit more relaxed now?

Alex: Yeah, no, my, my creative director of Vitamin Water, he had come from hip hop and, he wore a hat every day. And the vibe at Vitamin Water was certainly, more chill. I remember people [00:27:00] used to play this game called Salami Ball in the hallway, where they would just take like some big piece of salami and they would just play, basically play baseball in the hallways.

 We did some, like team trips, company-wide, events at,

retreats at hotels in Vegas. And, it was a significantly more, laid back, fun, vibrant, colorful, office experience, than working for the New York Knicks.

Radim: You mentioned it was 50 cents was involved with the brand, and you said you did some work with him. What did that feel like? Because you're making leaps and bounds like you are going, five minutes ago you are basically traveling to New York Knicks in your, suit, tie, and slacks, and now you throw a salami across the bon across the hallway and 50 cent is in the mix, in all of this.

So what did that feel like for your development process on how did that feel? 

Alex: I think I was, I felt gratitude. I think I was just really hungry to show what I was capable of. And I [00:28:00] think there were a couple designers there. I was one of the first, but there were other team members and I just remember this feeling of, I want my ideas to get picked.

like this is my first job and I wanna be a successful designer in, in my career. And I was just hungry, and I was like, I'm gonna work harder. I'm gonna pitch anything and everything that I can. if we need to like present,designs on Wednesday, I wanna have the most designs on the table, right?

If every designer's gonna come and throw down five ideas, I'm gonna bring 10 because that's gonna give me a better chance of getting my idea picked for the 50 cent,campaign or something. And I just felt like I don't wanna say competitive 'cause I'm not super competitive, but when it comes to design, I like to win.

And I think that's really the first time in my life where I had really been in a scenario where my love of what I do and the opportunity that I was in, I was very aware that this brand was a huge opportunity for me to [00:29:00] build a portfolio, to build a ton of experience and also yeah, to work with my favorite rapper, right?

And so if a couple people were throwing ideas in a hat, like I, if my idea got picked, maybe I got to go to the set and meet him and be there while he, maybe took something that I came up with and did for a photo shoot. And so that kind of stuff really motivated me at that time because I was just so young and so hungry to,just to.

Get in the mix and to make stuff and to do it at a,at a professional level. I remember I did a billboard once for 50 cent, and I didn't even come up with the concept. I just relayed out someone else's creative, like an agency had made the wor like the campaign, but then, they brought it in-house to like, reformat it for a bunch of, different billboards in New York City.

And, that was my job. And I remember going to that billboard in Manhattan being like, I made that. And it's I just wanted to make stuff that people would see. And to your point [00:30:00] earlier about, that creating value and confidence for me as an individual and someone that maybe was insecure, maybe didn't necessarily feel like you always belonged to other places, like that was a way for me to feel,a way that I hadn't felt before, which was, yeah, important, successful,

Radim: Through,

I mean, that feeling of seeing something out there, it's second to none.

Alex: I still, again, it still is the drug. Like it's still the coolest thing in the world to me, when I go out to a store and see anything that I was a part of in the world, and when people send me a photo where they went to Target and they saw B or again, like it's, that's still 20 years later.

the thing I'm chasing and the thing that I love the most, and it will never wear off, I don't think. I think that's the thing that I'm into.

That's good to hear. It's good to hear because there is sometimes a feeling that, you chase the end result. the process is messy. It's always meant to be messy. We want it to be clean, but [00:31:00] it's always messy. Not for me. It's always clean. Always clean the creative process. You start a project, then you get some feedback, then you do it, and then it's done. It's,I'm obviously kidding.

Radim: I should have saved myself that question.

Um, so when you were in Vitamin Water, the company Turbocharged, because you got acquired by Coca-Cola and your world got bigger and bigger, did you feel with the acquisition that you were able to do bigger things, bolder things? did you feel like there was actually a good thing to be purchased by a conglomerate?

Alex: I think in the very beginning I was scared, right? 'cause I had this dream job. I had this amazing opportunity. I was like, again, a 22-year-old kid given way more opportunity. Responsibility and, opportunities that I could never have imagined, at such a young age. And so I think I was scared at first that the Coca-Cola sort of acquisition was gonna.

Maybe make that harder for me or make it that maybe they would just get rid of our team or they would just start to, things were gonna change dramatically. And, they [00:32:00] did change, but it took quite a while. It was, it was slowly over many years. And I think for me it was quickly the latter of what you said, which was more opportunities to do bigger things to learn from the Coca-Cola system, to build bigger visual identity systems, to have the brand reach more people in more places, and therefore be a part of more amazing work and opened up the aperture of the brands that I was working on.

'cause at that point I was only working on Vitamin Water and Smart Water, but then I got to work on Powerade or Fuse or, even some Coca-Cola brands like, Coke or, Sprite or things like that. Like that started to open up the ability to work on other projects and other brands within the portfolio of Coca-Cola Company.

Radim: You just remind me of a drink. I did a campaign for Fuse. That was a long time ago. Oh, I did, I did anad campaign for Fuse, for Pink Ribbon. Was it like an anti, like a cancer campaign?

I don't know.[00:33:00] 

Alex: G. Coleman.

Radim: That was a long time ago now.

Yeah.

Alex: Fuse I don't think exists anymore.

Radim: But that definitely goes, that's a blast from the past.

But you've got quite a few

Alex: Yeah.

Radim: worthy creative philosophies and you say that brands are for people and not for product. And what you said so far, it's just a pure testament of what you believe in because the way you've been developing the work with the people.

The product is the carrier, but the people are the ones who make it.

Alex: Yeah, I mean, every brand is a reflection of both the people that make it and the people that love it. And I think that is so true about everything that I've ever worked on. It's like people make these brands, they put them out into the world, and then they have a life of their own. Once people take them and run with them and create something that is their own, or they, identify with it, or they use it as a signal to others that's, where they belong or who [00:34:00] they are as people.

And I think all of that is just a part of what we are doing every single day. And I, I think it's. A reflection of culture ultimately in both the people, like I said, that are internally,a part of the building, but then also you know, where we are as people in society and how it all impacts the, outside world.

Radim: I mean, beautifully said, and I'm thinking about the dots, the vitamin water dots. Because in, in a way, from what I know from the story of yours, that's an entry point to your next phase because you guys did, I think they're like the whole brand guidelines 

you worked with Collins on the project, 

What was that like to work with an external agency on something that you've been so close to for so many years?

Alex: I started my career again worshiping this brand, just inheriting and taking every opportunity I could to tell the [00:35:00] story to people internally, externally. I was, the world's biggest Vitamin War fan, and I think for me working at Koch over the years, we started working with more outside partners and as things shifted and I started reporting more into Atlanta and working within the Coca-Cola system.

still some work was done internally from an in-house team, and I was still designing, but we were, leveraging and working with amazing agencies just, and certainly. A lot of those agencies were on the advertising side of things. So the Widen Kennedy's, the, ogilvy's, the anomalies, like these,just absolute world class agencies from an advertising and marketing perspective.

'cause Coca-Cola is a marketing company and I think that is how every, decision was mostly led. And as a designer on the design team,I, I was a part of that and I worked with so many great partners, but I never was able to pick my own partner. 'cause there's a Coca-Cola network of [00:36:00] agencies and I, I worked with, many of them and everyone brought something different to the table.

But I met Leland Mash Meyer, who is Brian Collins's, co-founder at a conference that I was speaking at in Paris. And. I just was enamored with his brain and the presentation that he, shared that day, which was about, dragons and how they slay them at Collins. And the work was, Spotify, eos Chapstick and some of the like early Collins projects that really broke them through.

And I just was like, these guys really understand brand and they really understand design and I have to figure out a way to, to bring these guys into Koch. And the second I was able, I got a promotion and I was able to suggest and recommend an agency. I brought them in and yeah, Brian, that's when I met Brian and it was, it was the most fun I ever had working with an [00:37:00] agency because their sensibility to design and brand.

Was so connected to the way that I always saw things and the way that I, again, wanted to present work internally, because when you're an in-house designer, whether you're making it or an outside source is making it, it's still your project and your thing, and you're responsible for it.

So in some ways, You're at the, whim of the creators oftentimes. And so my colleagues were coming in and presenting, add ideas from Why Kennedy, and they were just blowing people's minds. And I was like, I wanna blow people's minds with the design work that I'm leading.

And so, Collins really helped me do that. And I think at that time, vitamin Water through the Coca-Cola acquisition needed some new energy and needed a reinvigoration. It needed, a return to its glory. some of the vibrancy had worn off over the years. And it was a really exciting opportunity to work with them, to bring it back and to really establish a new [00:38:00] system that was in many ways,championing and,celebrating what made Vitamin Water amazing in the first place.

Radim: It's interesting to know that after all of this amazing work, partnering with Col and yeah, Ellan Mash Meyer as a very impressive speaker, and I don't think I've ever seen this talk. They would not land and the same applies for Brian.

I mean, it just that absolutely ma match made in heaven really when you think about it in design Heaven. but it's interesting to know that you realize that after completing that project, you realize maybe that is my last project for the company and maybe I should go and start working on my own.

I do my own thing. And you went to seek Brian's, should I say seek of approval? right way to say it?

Alex: I was really inspired by the time I spent with Collins and I worked with so many amazing people there. it wasn't just Leland and Brian, it was Leo and Ben and Seth and all these other amazing people that just again, have now gone on to all do amazing things in different arenas, different agencies, and it was just a magic [00:39:00] and that design first,of space in Union Square.

I just, I just, the experience was something, like I said, I'd never had worked at an agency before. I'd only worked on, the Vitamin Water team, the Coca-Cola team, and the New York Knicks, and so the. Opportunity for me to really see inside of a design studio. And Brian really let me, again, as a client, just come over and sit with the team and just be a part of it.

And it really opened my eyes to this side of life and, for me that was something really inspiring. And obviously, Brian has his name on the door and, I thought maybe one day I would wanna put my name on the door. it sounded like it would make for a good agency. and yeah, that was really the moment that I started to think about my life post Coca-Cola and what it could and maybe would look like

Radim: I think you need to share, I think you need to share a romcom

Alex: [00:40:00] yeah.

Radim: story, because that's one of a kind.

Alex: Yeah. And I guess, yeah, and the story is that, in an, because I wanted to. I have had a few mentors in my life, but, there aren't many people that I've seen myself in, I guess in a way, like in design. I never saw myself in, in Michael Beirut, as amazing and talented as he is.

I just never saw myself in him or Stefan Sagmeister or these other creative legendary designers. And with Brian, I saw a path for myself. And so when I was going to go and do it, I thought maybe I should talk to Brian and see what he thought. And so, the story is that I took him to dinner and asked him out on a date and, to break the news and to, drop the bomb that I was gonna be starting my own studio.

And, he wasn't, immediately, encouraging. And I think, that's not. Necessarily because he's,was trying to be, mean or cruel, or really [00:41:00] for any alternative or, motives other than he was being honest. He was,it was not going to be easy. It was not going to be a walk in the park.

It wasn't, gonna be just, oh, I'm starting an agency and a student, and just a, success will come. And, I think I think he could tell in that conversation that I was looking for him to push me over the edge of that confidence that I was looking for in, in him. I was looking for someone and someone like Brian and someone that I, again,is a hero of mine and someone that I look up to, to tell me that this was the path for me and to reassure this big decision.

'cause I was scared. I was scared to leave my job. I had a great. Position at the Coca-Cola Company in any party I went to or any, dinner I was ever at, I said, I'm the design director for Coca-Cola. Oh, man. Going back to our first, part of this conversation, like it made me feel valuable. And so to throw all that away was scary.

Is so [00:42:00] scary. And so I needed someone like Brian to tell me that I should do it. And it was a great idea and he didn't, and I was upset at first. And I really wanted him to tell me, yes, go do this. I wanted the sort of green light and thumbs up. And the story goes that he left that dinner and I chased him down in the rain and he rolled down the window of his, car and he said, it needs to come from inside you. And he was right.

Radim: Those words, I've, obviously, I've heard your story prior to this, conversation and I've thought about it ever since because it means so much. 'cause it's almost like when you think about it, it's, it's the hell yes or no kind of situation. Like when it comes from you from within, you don't need anyone else's approval.

You don't need anyone to say, actually that's what it is. We just potentially try to reassure ourself that we do something that is right and do we get someone else's approval, but they're not even [00:43:00] close to our thinking or close to our, experience because they don't know your Hobson dreams fully.

Or like you are just at that time just to collaborate and a friend and someone who hangs around, and has done a creative work together. But those words, like it needs to come from within and needs to come from within you. It's just like anyone who's thinking about a next step, you don't need Brian Collins to validate you. It's just, it needs to come from within.

Alex: That's, and again, I'm so thankful that he gave me that message and it's, I hadn't told that story to anyone. That was something that just kind of lived inside of me for a long time. And, yeah, I started telling it for the first time on stage in front of a couple thousand people and I talked to him a little bit after it and I was just like, man, it really, it changed the trajectory of my life.

And because it's not, it wasn't just about that studio, or, it wasn't just about that moment. It wasn't that, it wasn't just about that decision, although that was the biggest decision that I have probably made in my [00:44:00] life. But I think I take that with me every day, right? no one knows anything.

We're all just making this up. And I think that gut instinct, that sort of belief in yourself and that sort of feeling. Is what you gotta go with. And it's gotta be inside of you and you have to believe it. And it's, no one else is gonna tell you what you should or shouldn't do or what's the right thing to do.

'cause they don't know. And you are the only one that can make that call. And you don't even know if it's right or wrong, but you just have to go with what feels right. And you have to do it with confidence. You have to do it in a way that isn't, that can inspire others to go with you.

Radim: Yo, putting your name above the door ever since has been a rollercoaster ride for you because 

it's given you lots of highs. It's also given you a lot of lows. It's put you in hospital out of all things. And I [00:45:00] think it comes from one of your other philosophies, which is care more than you should, because it's quite obvious when people give a shit, work looks that way.

Alex: It's the only superpower I have. It's the only thing that I do more than other people that I can confidently say I am better than them or have more of anything than anyone else. I care more. I think that's it. And I think if you can go to every table in every room and be the one that cares the most good things will come.

Good things will happen because people are inspired by people that care. People are, listened to. People that care. People want to work for people that care. People want to work, alongside people of that, care and. That's all you know. Again, I don't know what's right or wrong. I don't know if your brand is gonna be a success.

I don't know if this is, we just have to make thousands of decisions. [00:46:00] And all I know is that if you don't care, then you're not gonna make the right ones. But if you're doing it from a place of true care and caring about the result because you want it to be success, not because you want it to be successful for monetary reasons, or you want it to be successful for award reasons, but because you really care about it being good or you really care about being, as good as it possibly can, it will only lead you to places that, yeah, that I've been really, privileged and gra grateful to be at this place in my career 20 years in where I can sit in front of a bunch of awards and work and if I can point to anything and be like, here's my secret. It's because I care a lot.

Radim: You see, I told you I was gonna pick you up on something you said earlier, and that says, I would like to work with bigger, bigger brands and bigger companies, but everything that's behind you, the Carne Lion, the Dieline Awards and everything, it's not for the brands that people knew at first.

everything that you've created, as I said, you created brands of the future because you care. You give a shit, the work [00:47:00] reflects it. And I think it's a true testament that the self-acceptance doesn't come from the outside. It comes again. It comes from within, and I do believe it comes from within because.

the hierarchy that you've got from company that's, you've gone from working with a hundred people to a hundred thousand people. you still, you've realize like how noisy the machine can be before you can actually produce anything. That's interesting. Whereas when you start and work with, founders, making the decisions, working with smaller teams, creating almost the impossible and actually making it flourish in the world.

 That's a true testament that you can be anyone anywhere in the world. And that care and that attention and the obsession, that superpower can really elevate you to the status that is singular. Like what you've created is singular. 

Alex: thank you. No, I mean,

this has been very therapeutic for me. I mean, I really appreciate this. where do I, where do you wanna send your invoice to? Because,I think you have unlocked something, in this conversation for me, which is, for so long I was trying to [00:48:00] associate myself with brands because of the value that they brought to me, and now I have.

Taking that learning, taking all of those experiences of being a part of it and seeing how the sausage is made and being on the inside and being a part of those iconic brands or being at those tables and using those lessons to make those brands for others and not necessarily, yeah.

and then coming from inside, within me and within the team here. And that to me has been the most fun part of my life since starting this studio is, I was thinking about this yesterday 'cause I'm on this new board for the art directors club and I was thinking about sitting amongst, I was actually up late last night.

I don't know when this is gonna come out because I'm gonna be, in a room with [00:49:00] Alan Dye and Brian Collins and, John Maita and all these incredible designers that I am just in awe of. And I can't believe that I'm, invited to the party and thinking about, how do I introduce myself and what do I say and why am I there?

And I think part of it is because of the last seven years of building 25 plus brands from scratch that now potentially can be the next generation of Icon Brands. And not because I once was a design director for the Coca-Cola company, or once was a part of Vitamin Water, but because I'm building the next right water and the next Coca-Cola.

Radim: You see, you said these words says, I can't believe I'm in this room. I can't believe this is happening in a way. And it's that feeling when you set the wheels in motion. it works.

You're in the middle of it, obviously. It throws you around and you create almost what I would call like the brand of the brands of the featured [00:50:00] in the new world. And then you get people who have been doing almost the same thing over and over again for God knows how many years. And they don't necessarily create a new future.

They just create a version of X, y, Z that's been around. So, you being in the room, it's that's the new generation, obviously. that's what you're create in, let's say with some of the brands you created. Like these brands will blow up, they'll be around, there'll be household names that some of them already are.

And it's that thing that we do as creators. Like we still think that's, there should be some other source of self-acceptance now. Some sort of acceptance or from the outside to us. 

Alex: I'm still waiting for the parade, or the confetti to come down, right? Because I think about that a lot. what is, what does success look like? Right? And you're chasing this sort of dream. And I always think or always say that it's it's a series of rooms with a door and you just keep opening up the door, opening door, and you waiting for the confetti to fall, but yet it's just another door that leads [00:51:00] you to another level or another place.

And it, there is no parade, there is no there, the confetti will never come. And it's just, you're just constantly searching. And I think for me,I've come back to this idea that I end my talk with, which is loving what you do and who you do it with. Because to me, at the end of the day, I get to live in that every single day.

 that's what makes me happy and that's what makes me feel. Successful. And it's not because of some outside thing or some, award that comes or something, someone that validates what I'm doing. It's because I'm just so lucky and grateful to do this every day and constantly trying to push myself and,find new ways to make it exciting and make it different.

And to your point, not just trying to rehash the same thing over and over, but trying to find new things to get excited about and to push boundaries.

Radim: And we need to be clear about the fact that someone needs to rehash the old thing enough to be the next version that there, there's people for that. But [00:52:00] when you question yourself, well, when you question what does the success look like? Feel personify what you've created.

You've created through the products, you've created these communities where people find themselves,they, you created something new in their lives. And one of your other philosophies that you say is that standing out can help people fit in.

And this is the almost new category products, new category brands that you're making that are challenging the status quo, challenging the other version of X, Y, Z. And that helps actually people find their new conversations and new spaces where didn't exist.

Alex: Yeah. I mean, I think as people, we're all trying to figure it out. We're all trying to find our way. We're all trying to find our tribe. And I think brands are for belonging, right? this sense of being a part of something. And I think that's the role that brands played for me when I was a kid, right?

When I was wearing Burton to go snowboarding or, I was wearing my Nike socks to go play basketball. It's like I wanted to be a part of [00:53:00] something. And you're right, like the best brands challenge. The status quo, right? The best brands are the most courageous. They're the ones that are trying to change something and to make a difference and to shift culture.

And I think for me, I wanna be a part of those brands and a part of making those brands and also, help other people through the work that we do. And I think that story often, again, is about Bureau because it's about, this stigma that comes with not drinking alcohol and this idea that, we created a brand that made people feel.

Better or confident, or could feel like they could fit in at a party, or they could, they didn't have to feel like they were less than because they weren't a part of it. And that has challenged, decades and decades of people,feeling bad about themselves because they were,again, not, partaking in the experience of, social, alcohol consumption.

And so, for me [00:54:00] it's like, how can we help people with the work that we do? And that can look like a lot of different things, but ultimately it's about making people feel less lonely, removing stigma, and ultimately feel like they are a part of something bigger than themselves.

Radim: As you say, what's different makes you special and different and makes you special.

Simple as that.

Alex: Thank you. Yeah, I mean, that's another thing that I say a lot and again, that comes back to just like the point of branding in many ways. Like it's all, it's about differentiation and, but also, again, coming back to that thing that I'm not Brian Collins, I'm not Brian,I'm not Michael Berut.

I'm, again, and nor should I try to be. And I think that was a lesson that I learned sort of here at Centre. And, one of the early years was like, again, you kind of start by maybe emulating or trying to be something like something else that you saw and admired and appreciated, but then you realize, well, no, I'm not, I can't make that.

[00:55:00] I can't make a design studio that looks or like that or feels like that or does work like that. I can only do what feels right for me. And the result is a studio that is mine and reflects. How I think and how I behave and my, my, my attitude and philosophies, as you've talked a lot here about, and yeah, that sort of, collaboration, first people first, sort of positivity and just a, sense of care that comes through in everything that we make.

And that's what I'm most proud of.

Radim: Absolutely love it, and I feel like I'm gonna be like a dis, like a quote dispenser today because what you just described reminds me of the quote that says, I have to be myself because everybody else is taken, and this is pretty much with the design leadership, with the creativity.

We try to emulate others. We try to think that, the grass is potentially greener even though it's greener, where you water it. We try to sort of think that, we finding ourself, shall I say, and then [00:56:00] when you realize, I've got me, this is it to me, for example.

that's the definition of success when I've realized that what I've got and how I've got it and what I do and how I do it. When I found that peace in there, that was the ultimate success. I didn't have to chase anything. Any other idea of oh, I need to grow. I need to do this, I need to do that.

I need to have that brand in my portfolio. When I realized that everyone can go and fuck themselves and I'm just happy doing the way I do. Oh my God,

Alex: Yeah.

Radim: definition. Success eternally now.

Alex: Yeah. Yeah. I couldn't agree more. That's the beautiful, that's the beautiful journey that we're all on, I think. And I think, as now, an elder statesman that's, I turned 40 this year and I got enough gray hair now to start to give a wisdom, but yeah, I think, it took me 40 years to find, figure that out.

Right. And I think we're all on that journey. and I think for me, I'm, yeah, I'm just excited and, proud to be able to pass that on and to [00:57:00] bring some of these philosophies both to my studio and to, a new generation of designers and help pass that along. And, yeah, teach a little bit of what I've learned along the way to help others.

And I think that's. That's what we're all here to do. Right. It's to, find out these life lessons,through the experiences that we have, and then try to help others with that.

Radim: If you remember, you told me when you were 22, you were working with 31, 30 1-year-old adults, and now we are 40 plus. But Alex,it's been exciting to watch what you've created in the last few years and exciting what you've created in the last 40 years, and I'm excited to see what happens next.

So, it's been a pleasure talking to you. as you can tell, I'm a big fan of what you do and yourself and yeah, excited to see what happens next.

Alex: Thank you so much for all the kind words and for having me here today. I really enjoyed this conversation and I'm so thankful, for having me and, excited. Yeah. We're just getting started.

Radim: Pleasure.

Alex: Just the beginning.

Radim: Thank you. [00:58:00] 

Thank you for listening to this episode of Daring Creativity Podcast I'd love to know your thoughts questions and suggestions So please get in touch via the email in the show notes or social channels This episode was produced and presented by me Rad Malid The audio production was done by Neil Mackay from 7 million Bucks Podcast Thank you and I hope to see you on the next episode