In this special live episode recorded in front of an audience at OFFF Barcelona 2026, Radim sits down with PJ Richardson — ECD and co-founder of Laundry, a motion design studio based in LA and San Francisco — to pull back the curtain on one of the most ambitious creative projects of the festival: the OFFF 2026 opening titles, the nine-and-a-half-minute projection mapping piece that lit up an entire building and stopped the crowd in their tracks. 

PJ Richardson takes us inside the full arc of that creative journey — from the initial spark of ambition, through the chaos of experimentation, to the emotional moment of standing outside watching it play with his friends and peers.

This conversation is about far more than motion design. It's about daring to ask, the courage to collaborate, the willingness to sit with discomfort, and the decision — every single day — to challenge the status quo with joy.

Takeaways:

• Asking is its own creative act — PJ emailed Pep for three consecutive years before the timing aligned. Persistence without pressure eventually becomes a possibility.
• Say yes, then figure it out — Laundry's working philosophy of committing first and problem-solving second is what makes ambitious work happen at all.
• The process is the art — PJ's conceptual framework for the titles treated the journey of creativity itself as the subject matter, not just the output.
• Failure is the raw material — every experiment that didn't work became the foundation for the one that did. A thousand failed attempts led to one defining idea.
• Collaboration is a cheat code — bringing in friends like Alex Liou, Alejandro R. Meija, and Josh Pierce wasn't a compromise; it was the creative multiplier that made the whole thing possible.
• Challenge the status quo with joy — PJ's guiding theme for the titles, and for his creative life: the hard work is worth doing, but the intention to enjoy it matters deeply.
• Community is the celebration — the moment the piece felt truly finished wasn't in the edit suite. It was standing outside in Barcelona with peers, watching it on the building together. .

Daring Forever. Podcast with Radim Malinic

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Radim Malinic: Welcome to the Daring Creativity Podcast. I mean, it's a live conversation from OFFF Festival, but Daring Creativity is a podcast about show to dare forever explore creativity that isn't about shining perfection. It's about shining with all your doubts and imperfections and making them count. It's about becoming more of who you already are.

My name is Radim Malinic. I'm a designer, author, and eternally curious human being. I'm talking to a broad range of guests. Some of them actually might be in the room. Hello. Uh, I'm talking to a broad range of guests who share their story of small actions that spark lifelong discoveries, taking one steps to go to make- towards the what makes them feel alive.

Um, this show reaches 161 countries, uh, getting quarter of a million downloads in the last two years. And this is my very first live episode, and I can't be any more happier to do it here at OFFF 2026. By the way

No, we're gonna do this again. It's OF 2026 Hey, hey. Right. Um, as I said, it's the first episode, First Life episode, and I could not be more privileged and joyed to welcome my friend PJ Richardson to share the stage with me for the first episode. Delighted to be here. Thank 

PJ Richardson: you, my friend. 

Radim Malinic: Nice one. Thank you So PJ, welcome to Daring Creativity Festival.

PJ Richardson: Thank you. 

Radim Malinic: We are equipped with two clickers. 

PJ Richardson: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Radim Malinic: So I normally say this catchphrase on my, on my podcast and say, "For those who may have not heard of PJ Richardson," how would you introduce yourself? 

PJ Richardson: Just by my name. I'm PJ. 

Radim Malinic: Oh. 

PJ Richardson: A person. 

Radim Malinic: I, um, I always find it quite interesting when people say...

They're people with very broad and beautiful output and say, "Well, how would you introduce yourself? How, how would you introduce yourself?" And they say, "I don't really know." And I'm like, "I can see all your work. I can see everything that you do." But sometimes, is, is it hard to give it a title, give it a name?

PJ Richardson: No, I think it's, it... I've, I've seen this. 'Cause I've seen this, this question comes up a lot, right? Yeah. And I've seen it happen, unfold, where everybody defines themself by what they do, but we do a lot of things, and that's not who we are, so- 

Radim Malinic: What does- My 

PJ Richardson: name- 

Radim Malinic: What- Sorry for interrupting you. Uh- Yeah ... what is the, what is the name on your business card?

What does it say? 

PJ Richardson: Uh, ECD and co-founder of, of Laundry. Exactly. Uh, a motion design studio in, in LA and San Francisco. 

Radim Malinic: You've got your- 

PJ Richardson: We do this stuff. Yeah. We make, we make colorful things, and we, we attempt to make people happy with, with what we do, and, and, uh, just keep trying to do more of it and, and stay curious and have some fun.

Radim Malinic: How long have you been in the industry so far? How long have you been working? 

PJ Richardson: Oh, 25 years. 

Radim Malinic: 25. 

PJ Richardson: Yeah, yeah. So pretty much like 

Radim Malinic: the- 

PJ Richardson: We have, we started Laundry 20 years ago this year. So it's- Wow. Yeah. Ah, thank you. 

Radim Malinic: I mean, we met a year ago at Paradiso in Mexico. 

PJ Richardson: Mm-hmm. 

Radim Malinic: And we were talking about what you do, and you said, "I'm just working with these people.

It's a bit chaotic. I'm just doing stuff that I'm not really used to, but I'd, I'd like to have more sort of rigidity in the stru- in the structure." And you were working with Linkin Park- 

PJ Richardson: You're 

Radim Malinic: right ... creating their visuals. And I'm thinking, "It's Linkin Park. Come on, tell me more about it." But, um, yeah, we are here to celebrate the titles for of 2026.

PJ, I've got a question for you. What does daring forever mean to you? 

PJ Richardson: Oh, man, so many things. I mean, like, it, it's the, the, the key to staying inspired and to keep going creatively is... 'Cause, you know, creativity stays the same. We get older, but I- I think the temptation is to, to, you know, sometimes, es- especially in this day and age, to give up and to just, just sort of call it and, and fall on our heels, especially with AI- Wow

and uncertainty, right? Like, but, like, ultimately, the reason we got into this was the, the, the courage and the risk-taking and the experimentation and- 

Radim Malinic: Wow ... 

PJ Richardson: kind of all the, the, the crazy chaos of being creative. And so I think it's just the mindset of just keep, keep being that 17-year-old self that I think, you know, got all of us into being creative in some form, right?

Wow. 

Radim Malinic: That's an amazing answer. 

PJ Richardson: Yeah. 

Radim Malinic: Um, the reason why I ask this, because show of hands, have you got one of these? If you're not, did you get through the back door? Um, so I'm sure you've opened this. There's a card inside. So we've got audience participation. What I want you to do, well, me and, well, me and PJ want you to do, there's a card which is a square.

There's a reason why there's a pencil, and there's a question: What does Daring Forever mean to you? You don't have to write it straight away, but we want you to write your first answer for now. What does Daring Forever mean to you? And whilst you think about it, we're gonna carry on. So PJ, um, you and I did a podcast episode about nine months ago.

PJ Richardson: Yeah. 

Radim Malinic: And you asked you about your, a, a background, and you said you came from, um, the graphic- graffiti scene. 

PJ Richardson: That's right. 

Radim Malinic: And when the pennies dropped, I was like, "There it is. It's a digital graffiti. It's a 21st century graffiti." 

PJ Richardson: 100%. 

Radim Malinic: Yeah. Um, so who's seen the titles yesterday? Have you guys seen them? Yeah, I mean- 

PJ Richardson: Oh, awesome.

They, they- I 

Radim Malinic: mean, I think they're better than that. Come on. 

PJ Richardson: We can- Um- We can watch it again tonight. That, it, it's, uh- Yeah. 

Radim Malinic: Um, I mean, it's an incredible piece of work because, I mean, you've tackled something that hasn't been done before. 

PJ Richardson: Right. 

Radim Malinic: Uh, it's totally new. I mean, Pep was so excited that this happened.

Uh, I was lucky to see the process from start to finish, and I'm excited to share this with you 'cause our conversation is very much about the titles and what goes behind the scenes and all this stuff. But what was it feel like for you when you actually seen all of this finally on, on the side of a building, which is, I mean, bigger than anything I've ever seen?

PJ Richardson: Oh, man, it's emotional. Like, it's- it's- it's still, I get, I get chills even just looking at it now. I think it's the, the, like, we're, we're all together here creatively, all, you know, with a shared love for- for- for what we do in design and all the different sort of subcategories it falls into. We're- we're- we're all together most time, most of us in a faraway place that, uh, with the intention of being inspired and, and then there's just the added layer of, like, doing something gigantic in front of all of my peers and the, the- the, the joy and the pressure of that, and then purely the, the, the technical miscalculation, quite frankly, of something so enormous, then being like, "Holy fuck, that actually worked," which is, you know, kind of a theme in way in what we do at Laundry.

We say yes and then kind of figure it out later and then pray to God that it- it some- it works. 

Radim Malinic: But- Like you say, the gigantic miscalculations because some of the projections that were sort of s- crowdsourced and submitted were, like, five, 10 seconds. 

PJ Richardson: Yeah. 

Radim Malinic: I, when I've spoken to you when you guys were, were working on this, I was thinking, like, three minutes to two and a half minutes, and then I've seen the final piece.

It was, like, nine and a half minutes? 

PJ Richardson: Yeah. All right, I'll tell you the full story. I don't know if this is the right platform, but I'll tell it to you. So the way that this, this unfolded is I- I, this is, you know, I- I- I, being on the other, i- in the, in the room looking out and seeing all these wonderful titles by some of all of our heroes over the years, right?

It- it, I was like, "Man, I wanna do that. I, I really, like, that would be cool." So I emailed Pe- Pep for probably three years in a row asking, and timing wasn't right, and this year, as luck would have it, timing was right. It was, it was, uh, maybe January some- like, early January. He said, "You know what? Yeah, let's, let's do it."

And, um, so I agreed thinking that it would just be, you know, 69 video on, on roots and, and, you know, usual, usual thing. Committed and then got the... He's like, "Oh, we're projection mapping it." I'm like, "Okay, cool. This is not the plan, but, but sounds rad." And then got the technical specs and was like, "Holy shit."

Like, it was, uh, a lot bigger. And the- and then, and then it just, it just kept getting trickier. He's like... I was like, "Well, how long do you want it? Like one minute, two minutes?" He's like, "Well, there's 55 to 75 names in there, and you're, like, three seconds a piece to be fair. That's how we do titles." And you're like, I suddenly got the calc- the calculator out and was like 

Radim Malinic: Shit.

We'll, uh, we'll definitely get through absolutely the process. Because you've kind of, you've taken my question out of my mouth, really, where it all started. And I like that you said you've been emailing Pep for three years. Yeah, 

PJ Richardson: yeah. 

Radim Malinic: I'm a big believer in making future happen, inventing your future, 'cause you only live- Just, 

PJ Richardson: you ask.

Yeah. Like, it's like... And, and, uh, James from Future Deluxe when I was having a conversation even about clients, I'm like, "Just reach out, share, ask- 

Radim Malinic: Yeah ... 

PJ Richardson: anything." And most times people don't answer, and, but they see it, and then they don't, you know, something doesn't get answered until it does. 

Radim Malinic: Truth to be told- Yeah

we're sit- we're sitting here because we asked. 

PJ Richardson: Yeah, yeah. 

Radim Malinic: We asked. That's 

PJ Richardson: exactly. We 

Radim Malinic: asked to do this. 

PJ Richardson: Like, like I, I, I, you know, t- truth be told, uh, thank you because I, I sort of passed on a, on a conversation about the titles. I just honestly couldn't see technically or creatively how to look at process stuff for 55 minutes- Mm

as, as good or bad as it might be, without boring everybody. And then you had this idea of this conversation, and asked, and got us here. So it's- Yeah ... you know. 

Radim Malinic: Um, so I've actually advanced us to the inspiration. Let me see if I can go back on this. Y- 

Speaker: yeah. 

Radim Malinic: So, yeah, 'cause you guys, obviously, the, the OFFF over, uh, every single year gets a bit of a branding system by an agency that says a theme, and this year the theme was created by Uncommon.

I didn't know that Uncommon were swabbing people for their DNA and their germs at their mixes. I was in one of them in London. And I couldn't really put one and one together of like what does it all mean? Like, I've seen the shell. I was like, "What's this?" But you had, you had a bit of an 

PJ Richardson: insight on this.

Yeah, it sounds, sound... You made it sound darker than it really was. But it, but I mean, it... No, it's, it, it, so the idea w- that they came up with that, that I thought was absolutely incredible was that the, the community, OFFF is made of the community of people, the attendees that are here, right? It's, it's, and each in our own individual way, but we all come together as one and still one ecosystem that makes this community that's here at OFFF.

And they, they got to this mold idea as a representation of that. As something, you know- Mm ... however you wanna decide what mold means to you, as something ugly or beautiful or individual or, or what have you. And, and came up with this pr- really an identity of literally making it, growing it, and having it become the community coming together and having that literally be what the identity is for OFFF.

And it was... And, and 

Speaker: I was like, 

PJ Richardson: I was like, "Well, I'm definitely not that smart. But that, but that's really cool and I wanna be a part of that." 

Radim Malinic: What did it feel like to see the theme, which is... I mean, it's not standard. I mean, seeing sort of germs and, and, and sort of, what would you call it, like penicillin kind of thing, like how to come...

Molds. Did it feel like... What was the first reaction to it? Like, this is not the regular thing we're working with here. And normally there's a photography and type and sort of- I thought it was- ... design system ... 

PJ Richardson: really, really sound and, and fascinating concept, and beautiful to look at. Mm. And so, and my very first instinct was, hey, f- there's no good or bad way to do anything creative- Yeah

and what we do, certainly at a conference. But my first instinct was like, "Hey, why don't we make the titles tie in with the branding?" That was like my first thought, like, let's, let's make some, some, make it And, you know, started pulling reference that you guys are seeing here of all these cool, like trippy mold things on, on, you know, from Pinterest and like with every, every idea and, and, and intentionality of starting there and ending there with, with the, with the visual look of this.

Um, and, and that was a jumping OFFF point. Very quickly I realized that both because of time and skill set, we were not gonna pull this OFFF, uh- Yeah ... to literally grow our own mold for the titles or to create it in, you know, in Houdini or any other tools with... I just didn't have the, just the, those moons were not aligning for, for the creative direction for this, but, but we were trying.

Radim Malinic: Well, I like what you did. You seen the visual stuff. You kind of like tried to dissect it, how can you potentially recreate it in 3D? But when we spoke about it when you were working on this at, at the beginning, like you actually made a statement, you actually made a statement piece where you wanted to summarize, um, Dear Mendelssohn, uh, cultured audience, like how we all sit here together and how we sort of work together, and this was your state- statement piece.

How did you, how did you unlock it? 

PJ Richardson: Yeah. Like I think, I think one of the biggest things that thinking about the audience here a- and- Ignoring a second, like the style of what we make, I think the commonality between, uh, all of us here at OFFF is that we challenge the status quo of creativity in some way or another.

And you can call it a rebel, you can call it whatever you want. It, it's, it's not about being rebellious necessarily. But we're, we're here because, like, discussion, we ask what if. We, we all pull... Like, the amount of people you meet every single year that, that come here that are like, "I d- I couldn't afford this," or, "I'm from a faraway place," or, "I was in a different place and I maxed out my credit cards to go to OFFF to get inspired."

And I did the same thing early on, like, and I was like, man, that's, that's, that's what this is all about. That's where we all are at some point and start and certainly begin at because of this passion to get to where we, we wanna go. Because it's just such a cool, privileged, awesome, humbling experience to be able to be as creative as we all get to be and be around each other.

And so that theme of challenging the status quo. And then I think the, the, the one little check mark I added to it was with joy because, look, creativity is so subjective and it is so hard. And especially in this day and age- Mm ... there's so much pressure with world chaos. There's, you know, this whole AI thing.

Like, it's like... And, and so it was just like, okay, how do we challenge all of that with joy? And that was that, that was the, the, the theme that came out of this, to try to put something on this idea of community that the, the Uncommon team had, had formulated so, so well with this identity. 

Radim Malinic: I mean, it's, it's a big statement, let's challenge the status quo with joy, because it obviously you got the hard part and then you try to make it fun.

Like, let's do it, let's enjoy it. And I remember telling you that ever since we were talking about this conversation in private for the last few weeks, I got g- I, I started to see the word joy everywhere. 

Speaker: Yeah. 

Radim Malinic: And I opened a Rouleur magazine, which is a cycling magazine, and there was some, like, an article about a Spanish gravel rider, and she was like, "I'm done chasing the titles.

I'm now gonna go and chase the joy of cycling." And I'm like, but you've been doing the thing, but the joy thing, like, the joy is not always present. So I like that- Really? ... you sort of challenged this, challenged the statement, saying let's not only challenge the status quo, but do it whilst enjoying it. Yeah, 

PJ Richardson: it's an intentionality.

It doesn't... Some people are just happy and things fall into place and things are, are rad. But, like, a lot of the time you kind of have to force yourself there given- Mm ... given any number of different reasons. 

Radim Malinic: You've put this slide in here, which I, again, I think it's a big, big question. What is creativity?

PJ Richardson: Yeah. So, so, so here's the big challenge that I ran into with this, with, with this beautiful bold idea and, and even this challenging the status quo with joy is like, what do you do for- At least four to five minutes of titles and how do you, uh, add any rationale or any- Mm ... meaning or any purpose or any...

Like, literally, how, what, why, how do you make something and, like, and give it a reason? Yeah. And so I ask this big question is what is creativity? And where I got to with it is, you know, even... The, the next slide is what is community? And ultimately I broke that down and took this really post-modern approach to this where the process and the journey is the art.

Like, that is the, that is the, uh, in this case, that is the titles is. And, and so what is the, what is the journey? And that... But, but the journey is us coming here- Mm ... is us doing work, is us doing work to get to the end. It- it's the same way that it is us coming here from wherever we're coming from for whatever we're going through to, to become the community together at one place, which is OFFF.

Radim Malinic: Yeah. 'Cause I, I like when you put together, you put joy, creativity, community together, put it on a, on a, basically, put it on a journey, and you say the journey is the joy and the struggle. 

PJ Richardson: Yeah, because it's easy to make these slides with these big one statements, but, like, ultimately it's the, the messy reality is that it's a mix of everything.

It's joy if you decide it to be, but it's also struggle no matter what you decide, 'cause sometimes things are hard. And, and it's... And in a case like... And I think the, in the journey of creativity if I, I... I'm not speaking for anybody else, but it's, it's, it's a rollercoaster. It's up and down- Mm ... and up and down and back and forth, and I think that's the, the, the comment that I wanted to make with, uh, with a piece like this.

Radim Malinic: No, I'm looking forward to getting to the rollercoaster as soon as we get into the technical slides. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, um, the second question, as PJ's now been talking about joy, he suggested a question: What gives you joy? So you've got this card and a few more minutes to actually write what gives you joy.

So if you have a think about it and fill that in. There's a conclusion to, there's a reason why you're doing the homework and not sitting just quietly. PJ, in your process slides, or in your, uh, in your deck, in your, uh, in your frame board, you had these three stages of creativeness. You've got anticipation, process, and celebration.

Do you wanna tell us what it, what it means? 

PJ Richardson: Yeah, yeah. That's the, that's the journey. That's the creative journey, and that's how I wanted to break up and chapter in the titles into three, three chapters that are here. You know, I think the anticipation when we... Let's say we get a project or decide to make a project, right?

The anticipation and excitement and sometimes the stress, because I think as creatives, it's our, our passion is to challenge ourselves. We get pretty bored pretty easily doing the same thing, so we're like, "Well, let's do something new," and that gets us a surge of, of, of joy and excitement, but also you're like, "Holy shit, how do I do that," right?

And then the process is something that I think, at least in my world, clients have been really, really putting the, the, really- cramping into and saying, "We need it now. We need it tomorrow. Get it on the first try." And so we... The idea of play and experiment and, and, and just trying to see what can be discovered by making a ton of different things.

And then I touched on the celebration is that's the... That's when it all comes together. That's getting to the end. That's aiming for the end. That's getting to a, the happy place, if, if you will. 

Radim Malinic: Hmm. 

PJ Richardson: Um. 

Radim Malinic: What, what were the failures? What, what were the what-ifs? What was there? 'Cause I have to say, from r- running my own creative studio for nearly 20 years, we would normally start with a frame board and a mood board and, and start with something and get to a completely different place.

Whereas your mood boards were actually pretty close to what you suggested to do to actually the final product. So h- how rigid was it? What, what, what were, what were the failures and what were the what-ifs? 

PJ Richardson: The... Well, the reason I have this slide is that I, I, I've learned from many talks that I've seen here that it's one thing to have an idea- Mm

but to experiment and play and to just make a bunch of stuff, no matter... 'Cause I've done... I've, I've... And this happened a million times on this. I had tons of ideas I thought were great, and as soon as I started it, they were total, they were total garbage. Mm. And so the idea here is like we just... I, for no good reason except that I like doing 3D, w- I worked in Cinema 4D and Maxon.

Shout out to the Maxon team here. This is my, my Maxon. Let's just... Some UI slides here and, uh, and Viewport stuff, and just started making a ton of stuff, just experiments to see what, what was, like, viscerally cool and, and from there, just see what, what could kind of formulate itself from it so that... And not overthink it.

And they were all failures per se, but you also helped me learn something from it and helped me be like, "Okay, well, this little unmemorable thing became this, became this, became this." And suddenly you have piles of a thousand... It's sort of like, like you had a... It's like the reverse social media. You know how we see- Mm

all those one posts of amazingness, and they're secretly sort of like one of a thousand bad days- Yeah ... for a particular artist? This was like 1,000 shitty ones to get to the one day, one little snippet of an idea. So- 

Radim Malinic: Sure ... 

PJ Richardson: that's, that's the whole, like, failure what-ifs thing. 

Radim Malinic: It's really interesting because how annoying...

I mean, how annoying, that's the wrong ch- voice... w- wrong words to choose. What was the challenge about getting to the shape of the building? Because it's not a standard format. Like, did you already started thinking like there's certain limitations in the shape, or did you actually take it on thinking we got a challenge like we've not, not done that before?

Y- 

PJ Richardson: yeah, so Pep, uh, to his credit, was like, "Hey, this is a screen for OFFF. This is a screen for Barcelona. This is a screen for people walking by that don't know anything about creativity. So how can we do something that, that, that warps their perception of even an, an abnormal screen to begin with?" Mm. And so it was a lot of thinking about how to use that as a box, as a screen, as a surface, you know?

And, and, and so it was, it was definitely like what, how... This is not how we normally work. Mm. How do we do something with that? And, but I kept coming back to, to how can I get this identity, this mold, this beautiful mold idea- Yeah ... with, with, from Uncommon, and we're still trying to give it a good old college try with some of our 3D experiments, and it looks like little kids' toys to the beauty that, of, of what they're making.

So what- And so, but we're, we're still trying at the same time ... 

Radim Malinic: what are we looking at on the right-hand side? So on the left-hand side is the OFFF identity, and this is... What, what did you grow it in, or what did you 

PJ Richardson: do? The left side is from the Uncommon team that literally grew that with, with real mold, a real mold art- artist and, and all of its beauty.

And the, the me is on the right with the team trying to recreate it in 3D to, to, you know, just 'cause we wanted the control and the- Yeah ... and sort of line it up and... But it, it just, just wasn't good enough. So- 

Radim Malinic: And then it's moved on from kind of almost like semi-park the idea that the mold is gonna be the main character, main hero, and you've taken it on those three stages that can almost create like three chapters.

So where did the inspiration come from that just flashed up? Like, where did you collect it from? 

PJ Richardson: So, so we started to respect the Let me s- let me see if I can explain this the right way. We started to respect that this was really ambitious- Mm-hmm ... and, and got a little, like, scared. So we were like... And then also, but it also kind of lined up with this idea anticipation.

So we're like, "Okay, the first chapter, let's test out w- like, technically what our systems can even do." Mm. So we started to explore this cube voxel world, 'cause we're like, "Okay, this is gonna be a l- a lot lighter on our CG, and see what cool stuff we can do." But it also became this really interesting aesthetic that represented the early idea that hasn't formed yet, the anticipation and excitement, but this very basic thing that, that, you know, is, is very analog and ki- and, and, and g- and frankly, like, un- imperfect.

Mm. Um, but at the same time, it al- I also started to see, like, hey, this is our first status quo breaking moment of using, you know, flat bricks on the wall of the, of the front, and starting to warp those with field effectors and, and stuff in, in 3D that makes it kind of breaks your perception of what a flat surface is.

Um, and then from there, you know, a- as you're going through it, it's really messy, but you start to be like, "Well, what about this idea?" And so we're doing experiments like this that seem really great one afternoon, and then you put it in and you're like, "This is total garbage," and, and you get that out of the way.

Radim Malinic: I absolutely love it. 

PJ Richardson: No. You know, yeah, but it, it just didn't... I don't know. It didn't, it didn't feel like it had enough, enough going on. But it became, again, it's the, the what ifs from the quote unquote failures- Interesting ... and became something else. And then the process became the art on this because it led us to this very sort of like amorphous, moldy, like, like coagulating, like a bunch of no ideas coming into one idea aesthetic with this thing.

Of course, we had to do the AI thing, run it through AI to see what, what it would look like- Mm ... and it looked like we had nachos and bubblegum, and it didn't digest very well. And it was AI, and we were like, "Let's, let's..." I don't know. We didn't like it. It felt a little too, um, frankly like AI slop. So we, we ruled it out, got it out of there.

No AI in the final piece. And, and I actually like AI stuff, we just couldn't get it anywhere we liked and it didn't serve our purpose. 

Radim Malinic: I like what you said, that it was a bunch of no ideas coming into one big idea. It's like, like the process of curation, like, I mean, for example, the piece that I liked, you were like, "No, didn't work."

I mean- Yeah ... yeah, the, the f- the fuzzy AI stuff. And I mean, but especially the beginning, like the solid shapes were really good. But what was the process of curation like? Did you work on it yourself? Did you say, "I'm, I'm directing this," or was it a- an input from other p- other- Well, 

PJ Richardson: no, I was directing this.

Yeah. I, I was directing this with my inner voice that was in... or voices that were complete chaos and like, like some days I liked it, some days I was like, "This is shit," and, uh- 

Radim Malinic: So I've got a question for you, 'cause I know you and I talk quite a bit, and sometime in one of our conversations, you... it once came up that it was the element of trust.

That sometimes you don't feel like you are fully behind something, that you feel like maybe am I r- making the wrong choice. What was the element of trust in here? 

PJ Richardson: I think it was the discomfort of not knowing if it was good or, or good enough or, or would hold up or, or, and, and just keep grinding through it in spite of the, the, the inner tension.

And then eventually something came that you're like, "Oh, yeah." But it's not like... There's no logical thing here to it. It was just one little motion test and texture thing, and you're like, "Yeah, 

Speaker: that's it." 

Radim Malinic: So I've, I've got us to a process stage, so that's when things become to be a bit more juicier. Um- Waiting for the thing to show up.

Let's go. Here we go. Color and texture. So in the process, originally the plan was to create s- color-coded stages and all of that stuff. How quickly did you... 'Cause I know that most of what's in there is quite close to what you had originally planned. But how did you kind of travel with the idea? Because this process section is, by the way, for anyone who is into soft bodies and particles, is gonna enjoy the next 10 minutes because- Yeah.

Yeah ... it's just gonna be a, a blizzard of 3D f- thrown in- thrown into the shape of a, of, of building. But you, you touched on in, in, in the process, obviously at the beginning in the process, you touched on the fact that this is about creative community. It's about friendship. It's about how we come together and how we sort of celebrate our sort of own shared creativity.

The people that you worked in with them, how, how did they come about? Like, what, what's, w- what was, was the sort of deciding factor? 

PJ Richardson: This is the plot twist. Uh, so this is me working on this for a long time, for... Not for a long time, for, like, maybe a month, and being like, "Okay, this is way more than I can handle."

But at the same time, like, I knew about the, this... I had got to this process section and I, I knew that, like, like, look, for all the, like, Houdini and C40 artists that, that are into this stuff like myself, it's, it's so fun to just experiment with different techniques. And so I created this category to be able to find these experiments, to find ex- you know, do stuff to try, you know, soft bodies, all, all the stuff.

All the fun, all the fun 3D shit. And, and then, but I, but at the same time I was like, "I am out of my element here, like, time-wise. Like, I, I need to ask for help." And I suck at asking for help. 

Speaker: Mm. 

PJ Richardson: But my friend Alex Lu, amazing, amazing Houdini artist. I've done tons of titles with him, and just hit him up and was like, "Eh..."

A- as if he wouldn't, as if he wouldn't say yes. Yeah. But I was like, "I need help." And he's like, "Dude, we always do this stuff together." 

Radim Malinic: Yeah. 

PJ Richardson: And, um, but what was really interesting and cool about this process was that it was not like, "Hey, you must do this." Mm. I had all of these categories of things we could explore and, you know, and, and I like sort of the simplicity of some of it, like the Men v Nike reference that, you know, now is kind of retro and dated.

Mm. But there was this element of speed and excitement, of just ex- cool little experiments with some art-directed color, and I, it wasn't like, "Do that," but I was like, "Alex, just play with stuff you wanted to play with. Whatever..." You know, he was he- and he'd been doing some... I, I don't even remember how he described it.

And so he just started making his own stuff for this process section- Wow ... and just let the cook cook. And, uh- 

Radim Malinic: What was the process of you letting go and actually giving him the trust? Because are we looking at some early development stages? What was that? 

PJ Richardson: Well, you know, everybody works differently. Like- Yeah

I like to be kind of more emotional and stressy and- ... and existential with my, like, inner chaos and, and what does this all mean. Alex is completely different. He's just much more technical as a, as an artist, and he, he just was like I was like, "Yeah, we'll just use their color palette, throw it on at the end.

Here's a lighting setup that's consistent. Now, now, you know, do what you wanna do and see what you can do and find." And he started making piles and piles of stuff. And, you know, and then real-life considerations came up, like is it quick enough? Is it long enough? Is it... You know, that kind of a thing. And but it was, it, it was, it became very sort of methodical with, with, with his side of the things.

And, and, uh, yeah, we just started kind of pecking away. 

Radim Malinic: That's really interesting when you said, "Is it quick enough? Is it long enough?" Like, because did you have a, from almost like do you have a spreadsheet with all the names on it and go like, "This is this person. This, this, this, this is the section they get," or was it more- 

PJ Richardson: No, I didn't.

You know, it, it, I don't mean this in a, in a disrespectful way to the names of the titles. I knew what they were gonna be and where they're gonna sit. But I was much more in consideration of the audience standing in the room or standing- Mm ... outside and how they would take it in. And, and also the scale, you know, how this plays in a little quick time on your computer versus how we're all looking at it- Mm

on the, on the, the, out in the fie- you know, outside, was, was like, hey, let the, let it, let it play out, but let it not be so fast or so slow that it puts you to sleep or makes you, you know, throw up or something. So it was, uh, it was trying to just be Delightful in a, in the r- just the right cadence '

Radim Malinic: Cause I mean, the titles are, I mean, always beautifully, incredibly designed and, and executed by so many amazing studios.

And sometimes you try to find like the way of like, h- how far did you go with this? Like, what did you create it and why? And like, how did you get the meaning into this? And in, in your way, we were, we were talking about the fact that is there, is there a way to challenge the status quo and introduce the organisms, the molds, and that kind of stuff, and then introduce everyone as a character or as a sort of end, end credits?

But that idea kind of floated for a while, but then it just- 

PJ Richardson: Yeah, I think we just, I think we just went with our heart and who we are as artists and our passions, and kinda just made the stuff we wanted to make and, and just break the rules of like brand consistency or... I, I, I sound dismissive of, of Uncommon.

It's not the case at all. It was just we wanted to make a bunch of crazy stuff, and also make it change enough to keep the, the audience, ourselves as part of that, entertained by constantly trying different things and letting the like chaos and mismatching and the sort of post-modern process as art lead it, and just let it be this, this just very experimental thing.

And, and, you know, back to the friendships thing, it started to invite other people in, like our fr- our friend Alejandro, who's this amazing, amazing- Mm ... CG artist in Colombia. I think he might be here, at least around here. We called him and was like, "Hey, we wanna do this hand reaching out thing 'cause we wanna- Mm

try to trip people out and again, break this perception of w- of what it is to have a surface. And so he got in there, started making a bunch of stuff and experimenting with stuff, and we got this like cool, like... So it was, again, just like little micro ideas to try to be different and be, I don't know, and experiment, and then pulling in different friends along the way.

Radim Malinic: This is an interesting one 'cause I saw Alejandro yesterday at dinner, and he was like, "PJ called me and I had to be involved." Like- Yeah ... "I had to be part of it." Like just 'cause he couldn't miss out. Like, I, I wanted to do it even though he was busy. Like, I wanna do something. But it's, I, I, it's, well, it's really interesting to see like if, how everyone's got a slightly different style to this, like how everyone's already sort of bringing something different to each chapter.

PJ Richardson: I think that, I think, again, you know, bringing it back to the beginning, like when we're all here, or at least when I'm making stuff for a conference like this with my peers, I respect this audience so much, and I've stood on every side of this. And, and it's the social pressure of like, man, I wanna be as cool enough or as creative enough or whatever.

And then the whole thing just became about t- tearing that skin OFFF away and just- Mm ... being who we are deep down and making the stuff we like to make and letting it just kind of come out however it does, you know? And that was, that was, that was, uh... It was kind of a shedding of, of pressure in a way as we went on.

Radim Malinic: That was interesting you said just a minute ago, you said you're quite an emotional creative, stressy. How much stress was this? 

PJ Richardson: Incredible. Like, it's, it's like an emotional pendulum of inner chaos all the time. It... Just 'cause it's, it's, you know, all the imposter syndrome stuff, even though on paper there...

I've nothing to, at this point to be impostery about, but it's still, it's still there because it's, it's the dance partner with challenge yourself to do something different. Like, that's the, it, the m- you, we, we challenge ourselves as creatives to do something different, but it's- Hmm ... wildly uncomfortable and, but at the same time, that's when we get into, to, you know, especially when things as technical as this or- Yeah

or not don't go swimmingly well, like you're like, or do, you're still like, "Ah." 

Radim Malinic: It's, it's an interesting one because we always said it, but I always imagine creativity from the outside to be this calm lake with no ripples and a sunset in the background, right? You know, that's what creativity is. We sit at home and create this beautiful work.

But the, uh, the reality is completely different and it's, it's a wipeout, it's a storm. It's, you know, it's, it's dr- near drowning situation. 

PJ Richardson: Sometimes. 

Radim Malinic: Sometimes. 

PJ Richardson: Now you- Until you get to this last, last chapter, and you call my friend Josh Pierce, who's an amazing, amazing, amazing C4D and, and Octane artist, and literally bases this beautiful work on meditation and in creating environments and, and creating landscapes and...

Oh, yeah. Well, actually, no, I'm lying. First I was like, I was like, "Yeah, yeah, let's, let's make some CG landscapes." And then I was like, "Well, let's take this surface and make it a room and make it basically a neon nightclub." 

Speaker: Hmm. 

PJ Richardson: And I was like, "Let's make people dance and party in outside at OFFF at the end."

And then for some whatever reason we changed our mind and I didn't feel like doing that. And then I still was like, "Well, I don't know how, I don't have time to do any of this." Dave- And then we called Josh Pierce 

Radim Malinic: Then you 

PJ Richardson: called Josh Pierce ... who, um, Josh Pierce is amazing, amazing artist that bases a lot of, of his work around meditation and landscape and this, this sense of like, I don't know, calm and serenity.

Um, he does these really beautiful worlds that, that... and, and center on shapes and neon. I've been, I've been fan... We're very, very close friends. And, uh, and I like very like meekly at, at over lunch was like, "Do you need help?" And he's like, "Dude, of course." 

Radim Malinic: Nice. 

PJ Richardson: And so he went to work and started making his, his, uh, his worlds.

But we, you know, owe for OFFF- Oh ... I know, uh, I, I wish it was- Oh ... I wish it was a bit more clever than that, but we started with that as sort of the end goal, the end place of the journey, and he started experimenting and making this stuff. And basically taking them, these worlds that he built and creating these growing- 

Speaker: Hmm

PJ Richardson: things that lead us, that kind of represent all of us coming to OFFF and all of us getting to the end of the creative journey. And, um, it, it's sort of the, the rationale and motif for some of those, this early stuff. Um- And then we kept at it, and then eventually we figured out that the, the circle represents all of, all of creativity, all of us, all of Af.

It's the, it's the person, it's the, it's the artist, and it's the... You know, it's easy- Mm ... 'cause it's like the O of Af. But it became kind of our, our, you know, it starts with a cube, clay, you know, forms itself, sculpts itself into the circle. 

Radim Malinic: Uh-huh. 

PJ Richardson: And that becomes when, when creativity sort of shapes, and that became our little, our little motif to, to carry through, yeah.

Radim Malinic: So much going on in this. 

PJ Richardson: Yeah. 

Radim Malinic: Um, so we are at the s- these three stages again: process, so anticipation, process, and celebration. Did you celebrate when you finished this? Did you, did you have a sigh of relief going, "It's done"?

PJ Richardson: I celebrated- 

Radim Malinic: But is it, is it done? 

PJ Richardson: You know. Could 

Radim Malinic: you still go, could you still work on it? 

PJ Richardson: Mmm, yeah, no. It, it's done when it plays. There's some technical stuff that just has kept sort of... You know, when it was done in my heart was when I stood outside with everybody else last night and kind of watched this play and just- Yeah

sort of felt the, the, the moment. Yeah. Which I think is, is what this all is and all this comes to. Like, we're still tweaking stuff 'cause there's, you know, there's always something. But yeah, that was the, the, the moment of, like, standing with everybody last night and then again tonight. That's, that's when it sort of finished.

Radim Malinic: The one thing that really got me was, like, how it was cohesive from start to finish. Like, how did you blend it one bit after another? And it was just going, going, going. I was like, it- 

PJ Richardson: Well, shout out to Adobe. That's when we threw it into After Effects and started tweaking all the colors and trying to get it to match up.

'Cause it wasn't... There was... All of our... Like, even on some of the cube stuff and some of the sections, we're like, "This is great." And then you look at it and you're like, "Wow, this really sucks when it's all put together." So we, we just u- we used comping to, to colorize and to get everything to- Mm ... feel like it was a little bit more as one and, and, and, uh, and, and then just kind of drilled at that and, and, uh, yeah.

I think that was the... And then there was just an acceptance of, of, like, we, we, I mean, we have to finish- Mm ... or, or there's nothing to experience. And, and, and just, you know, and then you, you kind of... I, I sound so cynical 'cause it, it is... I'm really proud of it, and it was really just a beautiful experience, especially with friends.

Mm. But there was a, there's always a, kind of a learn to love it moment, and that's when you're like, oh yeah, you see it for, for, for the great, for, for the joy of it, you know? And so it was, it was just cool. 

Radim Malinic: Was it... I mean, what was the feeling seeing it with your friends just on this incredible canvas? I 

PJ Richardson: mean, beyond.

Radim Malinic: Yeah. 

PJ Richardson: There's no words. Like, it's, it's... In the same way that I see my friends standing on stage, like Ross earlier and showing his work, or, or- Mm ... you know, Miguel earlier, and just seeing all that. But same. It's just like, you're just like, ah, hell yeah. Like, just the, the- 

Radim Malinic: Incredible. I mean, well done. I mean, such an amazing piece.

Um, the reason why we got permission, acceptance, curiosity, and gratitude on the screen is 'cause we were talking about how we perceive our, our creative processes, and I believe that permission is something that we... You know, you look at the now versus how, but, you know, I wanna do something. I've got no idea what it really entails.

I really shouldn't know how, how difficult it could be And then you go down the journey. So for your now versus how, it was like, "Hey Pep, can we do the titles?" And he said yes. That was your now. We're like, "How, how, how do I make it now?" And then you go into state of acceptance, going, "Okay, well, if I accept the, the skill set or the constraints, everything, then that will give me a chance to create the work."

And then we go into place of curiosity, going, "What can I do with this?" Because I know that I've got the foundation sorted. And we go ... Actually now, what, what you kind of I think quite clearly displayed is the place of gratitude, of having the ability to share this with the world, both with the audience here, like share it and actually be able to, to do this.

Because I feel these, like are sort of are mirrors of how we see the processes, that being able to do what we do, I mean, how pr- how lucky are we that we can sit in this room, talk about creativity, and celebrate creativity at this festival? I mean, that's, for me it's always a place of deep gratitude, being able to do this, because it's something that other people potentially can't do.

So it's just- 

PJ Richardson: I, I, I mean, I feel with a vengeance so strongly about this and how it represents OFFF, and I think represents everybody that's here for ... and everybody I've been inspired by. Because I think alone, especially when we're younger artists, we, we, we, we ask for permission to, to be creative or to be a part of things.

Mm. And, and but then you have people like Seth Epstein from Los York. He didn't talk about this, but he was my very first boss. And he- 

Radim Malinic: Was he? 

PJ Richardson: Yeah, yeah. And he, he, he created this culture to, to not only not ask for permission, but to bring your courage and audacity and, and just, just go shoot for the moon.

It was the culture he created creatively that, that set the course of my entire career to, to just go As boldly as I possibly could. And then I think just the, the, all the rest of them, curiosity and acceptance and gratitude. Uh, curiosity and acceptance particularly is from friends. Mm. I think the biggest thing that I come...

When I stand here at OFFFF and look at these talks, you're like, there's no magic button that cures all of the challenges, but you're like, "Holy shit, that person's going through the same thing, and that person, too," and, and your heroes. And you're like, man, they're... It's very, very cathartic to, to g- go home being like, "Okay, every- so other people are, too."

That gives me fuel to, like, keep just grinding through and making rad shit. And, and then the gratitude is just being here together with friends of- Mm ... of every shape and, and seeing everybody both delighted and inspired and shining on the stage. It's just like, man, that, that... It's all like- 

Radim Malinic: Mm ... 

PJ Richardson: this is why this is this, and it's awesome.

You 

Radim Malinic: know? So I'm gonna confuse the audience with another three words. Yeah. Yeah. 

PJ Richardson: Yeah. 

Radim Malinic: Um, because I call this the three stages of a creative career or creative life or just life. And the inward stage is the egocentric us. Like, when you... Everyone can remember when they started in the industry and was like, "I know the best.

I, I can do what I... No, we're gonna do it my way because I have been here for five minutes. I don't know anything." You know, you kind of... You go there with that sort of your own permission from naivety, and you want your credit on everything. You want to be celebrated. And then you realize, actually, if I let go a little bit, I can do stuff for other people.

You know, like, what am I here for the good of the project? Like, what can I deliver? How can I let go and actually go with working with the team and be less of a dick to, you know, uh, try to sort of project every single idea into this? Then I feel like where you are in your stage of your career now is the, is the forward stage, which is the we.

Like, what can you do for everyone? Like, how can I give away the time, the, the creativity, you know, the skill set? 'Cause what you created and ultimately is, is very generous piece that pushed you to places that, you know, you don't, you don't, you don't choose to go voluntarily to say, "I wanna be stressed. I wanna do this."

But you've chosen to create something that celebrates this, this community, this friendship that It's none the other 

PJ Richardson: Yeah. Like, I, I'm just, I'm the biggest cheerleader of everybody I possibly can, and I'm not... For that, I'm not afraid to be a fan boy, and I, I try to help as much as I can because, like, it's, like, stuff...

I mean, how many times there's things where you're like, "Oh, yeah, that's easy. That's... We just do it this way," and it, like, lights someone up that might not know. And if I can find, like, a cheat code to help anybody to get through and get to the fun part faster and more, like, man, like, that's, that's, that's, that...

I... That's what I would want on the other side of that equation. And so it's, it's like, "Let's, let's do it." And I think so much of it just comes down to friendship in the end, and, like, that's, that's, like, the se- Like, like, think about this. Like, when, like, think about the, some of the most fun moments of, of creativity, and I, I think about it in a studio se- session, like, especially early on at a studio, it's, like, five of us in a room late at night grinding.

Like, you know, we're the underdogs, but it's, like, and some deadline, whatever, and, like, it's the time of your life. Mm. Like, you, like, ti- If it's creative flow, things flow by even though it's crazy, and it's just like that's the... Let's box that up and, like, have that be life, and that's the friendship and the, and the community, and that's, it's, it's cool.

Radim Malinic: I think there's one word that came to me from what you just said, and that's the word joy. 

PJ Richardson: Yeah, yeah. 

Radim Malinic: That's, it's- Because the, the endless hours, as long as they might be, like, they're still joining because if you didn't enjoy it, why would you be there? 

PJ Richardson: Well, that's the whole thing, is just, like, clearing out all the noise to, to, to find the joy.

And, like, there, there's always gonna be- 

Radim Malinic: So- ... 

PJ Richardson: some reason not to, but, like, you know. Yeah. 

Radim Malinic: So. So, um, I hope you've done your homework because we'll try to do an experiment. Shall I get you to, uh, advise our audience what to do next? 

PJ Richardson: Yeah, yeah. So what we're gonna do is we're gonna take out that card. You might have to close your eyes 'cause I don't want anybody to poke their eye out.

But you're gonna take the card, and I'm gonna, I'm gonna record this. And on the count of three- Right. 

Radim Malinic: Could we have the house lights on by any chance? I'm not sure- 

PJ Richardson: Here, here's why you're gonna do this. At the count of three, we're gonna throw it out in the air, and someone else- And- ... is gonna find your reason for joy

Radim Malinic: so ideally maybe you wanna stand up, so you're gonna stand up, if you can stand up. If you don't want to stand, I'm not sure why. But if you stand up, if you've got one of these, if you filled it in, I mean, if it's empty, you might wanna keep it. But what we wanted to do, we wanted you to throw the card in the air wherever it lands.

If it lands on your head, I'm sorry. But it's, the reason why we wanted to do it, so we share the reason what Daring Forever means to you, what gives you joy. So if somebody else finds it, they've read your opinion, right? Does it make sense? 

PJ Richardson: We want you to create joy for somebody else. This is our little game.

Radim Malinic: All right. 

PJ Richardson: Do you wanna count them OFFF? 

Radim Malinic: Uh, should we go three, two, one, go? Yeah. So- Yeah ... three, two, one, go. 

PJ Richardson: Yeah. All right. Now find some joy. Let's see what, how this works. Let's see if this actually works. But you guys, thank you. 

Radim Malinic: Well, that turned out better than I thought. 

PJ Richardson: I think the, the, the- Yeah ... the cleaning people are gonna be pissed at us, but it's fine.

Radim Malinic: We'll do a, we'll do a search party just in a second Whoa, that was a good one 

PJ Richardson: That's, that's a good shot. Let me see it one more time. Yeah. 

Radim Malinic: Well done, Burton. All right. Burton, you're gonna be on the spot now. Excuse me So our little experiment, thank you for taking part. What did he say? Ah, Burton, we've got you.

Can you read it?

PJ Richardson: Nothing, because today I haven't... I heard about it for the very first time. That's all right. It's a 

Radim Malinic: starting point. He needs more time. He needs more time to think about it. He needs more time. 

PJ Richardson: That's okay. 

Radim Malinic: Um, PJ, what would you say about... how would you summarize the process of making titles? What would... like, how would you say in one couple of sentences what the process was about and how many emails are you gonna send next to ask for more title work and other stuff like this?

Because it clearly pushed you in a new direction. It pushed you into places that made you stressed, made you emotional, but ultimately celebrating what you've created is, is I think it's an incredible piece of work that you've created. Because, um, when... as I said, when I seen it for the first time, it was nine minutes, I'm like, "Oh my God, that was a lot of work."

PJ Richardson: I think it's just, like you said, just asking and- Mm ... and keep asking and eventually something will, will stick. And then, you know, I think just owning the truth of the journey is the, is the art, 'cause for good and for bad and easy and for hard. To... and just try to, like, lead with, with th- your real experience.

Radim Malinic: I wanna thank you for everything that you've created. I think you're an incredible creative, creating work that moves people, color, joy, full of gratitude, full of amazing work. I mean, you work with so many different sectors, creating amazing visual storytelling, and you are one of the most humble people in our industry.

No. Thank you. So thank you. 

PJ Richardson: Thank you, Rudeem. But thank you, guys. This is the inspiration 

Radim Malinic: here. Thank you

Um, Daring Creativity podcast is going to be a book. It's gonna be a book in January 2027, and a lot of the conversations from the podcast will be in there. Um, I've got a book called Daring Forever, uh, which is coming out in October. There's a little card and you can pre-order the book if you want a limited edition, but the link is not up yet.

I'll do it tomorrow. And I wanna just to give it up for PJ. Make a lot of noise because you are incredible

PJ Richardson: Thank you guys so much

Radim Malinic: Tell me what you want, 

Speaker: what you really, really want.