Kyle Wilkinson shares the extraordinary story of creating Haus of Thrills' first major popup exhibition, The Clinic, in just 90 days, building his own creative universe under extreme time and financial pressure with no client brief and no guaranteed outcome.

He reveals the reality of watching his budget double, choosing 24-carat gold over fake materials, and creating an alternative to traditional gallery spaces where dopamine-fueled social commentary meets immersive experience. 

Kyle's insights on the beauty of naivety, the privilege of pressure, and why knowing too much can be creativity's greatest enemy offer a masterclass in building momentum through action rather than perfection.

Key Takeaways

• Create urgency for yourself — The industry is full of ideas that never happen because there's no deadline. Setting constraints forces execution and prevents endless postponement.
• Sit in the unknown to grow — Like a plant in a crowded rainforest, you must be willing to exist in dark, uncomfortable spaces before breaking through to the light above.
• Choose your own problems — When you select your own constraints and challenges, you halve the stress because you're dealing with problems you've chosen rather than ones imposed on you.
• The beauty of naivety protects creation — Like Noel Gallagher writing "Don't Look Back in Anger," not knowing the enormity of what you're creating allows you to just do it without crushing pressure.
• Budget realism hits differently with your own money — Understanding what it's like when clients spend their money creates empathy, especially when materials like 24-carat gold cost significantly more than anticipated.
• Do it right or don't do it at all — The world doesn't need more mediocre work. If you're going to create something, commit to making it the best it can possibly be.
• Play at the level you want to reach — Using framers who work with Julian Opie and Bella Freud from day one means you're already operating at the standard you aspire to achieve.
• Pressure is a privilege — Being in a position where you can create a show in London under your own steam, doing exactly what you want, is an incredible situation despite the stress.
• If you know the answer at the start, you're doing it wrong — True creativity means not knowing the outcome. If you do, you're just replicating rather than creating something new.
• Create for yourself first, then apply strategy — You've got to want to pick up the guitar for yourself and sing the song before thinking about the broader audience or business implications.
• Build emotional resilience through pressure — The growth that comes from surviving extreme creative challenges prepares you for future projects with greater confidence and capability.

Daring Forever. Podcast with Radim Malinic

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Kyle p2: [00:00:00]  I'm creating, something that I would want to stand up in any gallery within the world.

 And, uh, the pieces, the materials that were used were, were very expensive. 24 karat gold. I remember having this conversation on the phone with the, like, do you want fake gold or 24 karat gold? I'm like. Who would pick fake gold? Like I cannot honestly say to somebody like, oh, is this real gold? No, it's fake gold.

 No, it's 24 karat gold. And it turns out rather gold's expensive. news flash for everybody. And yeah, it started to spiral from that point, which we pretty early on and the budget just, yeah, ended up doubling. because I took a firm belief that if we're doing it. Like I do with every project. If you're doing something, you either, you, you either see it through and do it right, or just don't bother.

The world doesn't need more kind of meh. [00:01:00]  go and do it properly. 

Welcome to the Daring Creativity Podcast, a show about daring to forever explore creativity that isn't about chasing shiny perfection. It's about showing up with all your doubts and imperfections and making them count. It's about becoming more of who you already are. My name is Radim Malinic I'm a designer, author, and eternally curious human being.

 I am talking to a broad range of guests who share their stories of small actions that sparked lifetime discoveries, taking one step towards the thing that made them feel most alive. 

 Let me begin this episode with a question. Are you ready to discover what happens when you dare to create? 

To kick off 2026, [00:02:00] I'm happy to welcome back Kyle Wilkinson. Kyle is a multidisciplinary designer and the founder of House of Thrills. Kyle took on a challenge of launching his first self-initiated and self-funded popup exhibition titled The Clinic.

and the show examined how we relate to dopamine in today's digital world.during our conversation, Kyle shared how setting a 90 day deadline pushed him to get things done, explaining why he picked the best material, supplies, venue, and his attention to detail.

 He was also honest about his budget going off track, staying up late, questioning every choice, and how he sees pressure as a privilege when working on new projects.

 It is my pleasure to share with you my conversation with Kyle Wilkinson. 

Radim: Kyle, how are you doing, mate? It's great to see you again.

Kyle mini: Now, mate, I'm very well, thank you Very well. How are you?

Radim: yeah, I'm ground,Welcome to 2026. how [00:03:00] was your Christmas?

Kyle mini: Oh, great. Fuller in's, pies full of beer. The usual standard issue.

Radim: you've had a busy year, especially Q3 summer, autumn, 

Kyle mini: It was, it were pretty hectic. Yeah. One of the, the biggest time pressures I think I've put myself in in my entire career. Yeah. So it were an interesting one.

Radim: that's exactly the reason why I wanted to have you back because we are gonna celebrate you being the guest number one and a guest number 98. but it's great to have you backto put focus on, on your version of Daring Creativity and how you do that, forever because what you created with the latest popup, what you've created with House of Thrills, it's been incredible.

And the show is about pursuing. One thing that you would otherwise regret not starting. And you are absolutely one of the people, if not one of the very few people doing it right now. building potentially the next, building your future, building something that it's of your own and something that no one's asked you to do.

 And it's taken a lot of effort, energy, [00:04:00] money, resources to do. Oh my God. I mean, I hope that you are proud of what you created because it's been, it's been quite something to watch. So let's rewind it to the moment when you realized, okay, I'm gonna do something quite, as important as a pop-up in 90 days.

Kyle mini: Yeah. So I mean the, the whole journey of House of Thrills so far has been a little side step away from my other studio, and I always wanted to bring something to the world that people could visit, because I think with House of Thrills, what I'm trying to build is, a creative world.

And a sandbox that allows me to play in, but is a place that can provide art and design to the wider community that might not necessarily go to a space like an art gallery. And the reason for that is they, they're often put off because of the atmosphere that they have or that they're, they're almost slammed for not understanding the pieces that are on the wall.

 And, what I'm trying to build with House of Fills is an alternative option to that. [00:05:00] I decided early on that it needed to have a, a space at some point, and that'd be a bit, that'd be our popup. but earlier on in the year, I, I,went all in on it and said, right, we need to do this. It needs to be before the end of the year.

 And I didn't want to hit the Christmas kind of madness that, November and December brings, so it had to be before October. this was back in. I think June, July, and I met that, made that decision and then went all in 90 days to come up with a concept to come up with the, find the space, create the artwork, and then promote it and actually get people to it.

Yeah. So it turns out 90 days is not a very long time. yeah.

Radim: So like that moment when you've decided, okay, this is gonna be 90 days, this is gonna be. Show, show and I need to work it all out.

 What was that drive behind it? 

Kyle mini: yeah, I think it's it. It's a mechanism that I've used a few times in my career [00:06:00] that. I think. The creative sector is rife with ideas that never come to life. Everybody has them, but then bringing them to life as we know and executing them is the, the most difficult part of the ideation process. And throughout my career, what I've tried to do is put these constraints on these things so that you have to get yourself out of them scenarios.

Kyle mini: and I think I've, I've good ex examples of that on various parts of my career where I've done things that I've never done before for clients and for projects that. the, the idea is, is grounded in logic and it's a good idea, and actually that is the right idea, but the execution side of it is a, a little bit of an unknown, an impossibility, but I do have a strong belief in that if you put yourself under that pressure, you will find a way out of it.

 I liken it to this career and this industry and life for, for a generalization is almost like. a rainforest. It's a very busy and crowded space, [00:07:00] and you've got to be willing to put yourself into kind of them dark spots, them unknown spots, and sit within that dark space for a little bit. To reach above the canopy to the light and grow out of that problem that you've got that you don't necessarily know how to do it.

 And that's my philosophy on, on creativity is that not necessarily just resting on what you know, that you've gotta be willing to, to sit in them shadows for a little while to then to then grow for that next level. And that's exactly what I did with this, is giving yourself that 90 day constraint. Whilst I didn't know whether or not it were gonna work out, I knew I'd have something at the end of it. And then you work and strive to, to make it the very best it can possibly be. And, and that doesn't come without,its toll. it was a lot of time and it was a lot of effort, but I think the result of it gave me something of a springboard to get onto. Version two and the next event and the next thing because it's, we sometimes build these things up into [00:08:00] big ta-da moments in his careers that this one thing is gonna be that detonation point of that's gonna send us into the stratosphere.

And I don't think that's really ever the case. It, it can be in few isolated, situations, but the majority is that compounding effect of momentum and doing things. And that's why I wanted to put a time constraint on it.

Radim: what you said really beautifully is that the industry's full of ideas that never happen. You create the urgency for yourself because how many times it's so easy to just give yourself another month, another week, another year, another this, another that. 

Right. So in a sense of urgency that you created for yourself, did it come with regrets? Did it come with, oh shit, well have I done, why?

Kyle mini: I think it does in the moment. like it's easy to say with hindsight that no, but in the moment, yeah, there were certainly points where. I regretted even doing it or questioned whether or not I were doing the, the right thing. And I think that's only a, a saying response to some of the, something like [00:09:00] this because the time constraint is one thing, but then the, the financial, implications of it as well is when you're putting your own money into something that effectively, not guaranteed. A return, and wasn't really planned to have a return from a, from a start. This is a brand activation, so to speak. So when you're putting your own money into it and you're thinking, I am turning down projects, I'm turning down work to work on this thing, and at the same time setting fire to a bank account.

Is this the correct thing to do? And then at points you do regret it when there's a little curve ball in the, in the road that costs more money and costs more time than you anticipated. You go, shit, why am I doing it? how do I get out of this? But that's just another, level of pressure that allows you to not stop, not give up like you often do with, well, like it's so easily to give up.

There is no way through this, apart from forward and absolutely smashing it. and. It's, that's not easy though, that it comes with a, a mental pressure and an [00:10:00] emotional toll.

Radim: you've heard yourself publicly accountable because you've made it very well documented about what you're doing. How are you doing it? How, how soon it's coming, 

But I'm realizing that for those who may have not seen your show, or potentially have seen you documenting what you've done, let's put a bit more color into the concept of what you actually created. Like what was the show about and why did you even settle that theme? 

Kyle mini: Yeah, so, so the whole premise of the show is around our addiction to dopamine and social media and validation. I wanted to pick a, a thing that we could, like, the work that I create is, is predominantly pop up. but I do want the, some of the work to have a satirical edge, because then it allows it to have depth, and social commentary and.

That was, it felt really pertinent for the time. and I wanted to create something with House of Thrills that, these are chapters of work and bodies of work that can be different from, from each iteration. And in this one, I wanted to create a world that people [00:11:00] can. is a little bit more accessible from an artistic standpoint.

So it's not just about coming in chin rubbing, looking at a canvas on a wall and pondering over, something deeper and meaningful. Obviously you can do that if you want to and that's how you enjoy it. But for a lot of people that don't go into galleries, 'cause they're scared of not understanding something and then being judged upon that.

So I wanted to build a world where it felt fun and accessible so that if you liked the work or didn't like the work on the wall, you could still leave saying you had a good time. And that, that were the whole premise. So linking this, the linking this, this subject matter of dopamine and validation and, and addiction to to, to new things that we don't necessarily notice that are addictions and damaging.

We've got large graphic works of, medicine and pills and a skull that's got heart eyes. That's called light to death. But packaged up in that is the, the gallery's themed like a pharmacy with nurses that greet you at the door. and, and check you in and put a medical wristband on you and make [00:12:00] it a little bit more immersive as an experience.

So it's not just coming into a silent, white walled room and then go and figure it out for yourself. It's a little bit more you, you do literally go on a little bit of a, uh, an experience and a journey within the, within the show. So, 

Radim: well, it's really interesting 'cause obviously I, I know, I know the theme, obviously we talked about it prior to the, the launch about, how is the social commentary and. It was just now when I actually realized there's another layer to this because dopamine is such an important part of creative life, not is just a social commentary.

Like we just, we've created outside sources of dopamine mostly we are, we are very well. What's the right way to use? we are very well responsible for the levels of dopamine that we can actually administer to ourselves by creating work, by creating things that. Make us feel alive, make us feel like we've got a sense of growth and a sense of accomplishment.

So did you feel your own levels of dopamine and, cortisol cortisol rising from out?

Kyle mini: [00:13:00] Yeah, I, I recognize it within myself, is that one of the, the, I'm somebody that chases that hit, but through different kind of formats, the minute the, social media is the one that provides that instant thing to a lot of people and it doesn't give much, depth or kind of reward beyond that instant gratification.

Kyle mini: but I do realize that that part of this show. Ha has an ironer to it. Given that I was sharing the majority of the journey on social media and the fact that part of it is me chasing down another dopamine hit of whatever that achievement is in my career and the work and building something, and, and that is what I constantly chase, is that next thing, which is in part tied to a, a, a huge dopamine hit.

'cause it is rewarding when you, when you do these things. The adrenaline of and cortisol that, keep you awake at three o'clock in the morning worrying about all the little intricacies of the show. And is something gonna turn upon time? Is this gonna work? How do we do that? [00:14:00] What's the logistics look like?

 All them things are things that I. I know that puts me in the best possible situation to create. I know that it doesn't do for, for others, for, for some others anyway. But the situation that I put myself in regularly is, is, is I know that that's the best way of me working. even though it's not necessarily the most pleasurable, at times, but yeah.

Radim: is that an underlying thing with dopamine? 'cause I, I take House of Thrills. Is there dopamine in there or was it just something that, that sparked your imagination and thought like, okay, I'm gonna create a show about dopamine.

Kyle mini: I think it, yeah, you can draw the parallels between the two being,dopamine providing that hit and excitement and house and thrills. But really there were no, joining of the dots in that situation. It was just purely what idea have we got that we can expand upon? Multiple, like multiple pieces of work as well as bring and build into a world that we can theme it, as a shop, rather than a [00:15:00] gallery.

so it has a little bit more of a pop-up shop vibe as opposed to a, a gallery vibe. And then give me something that can be built into a world of. the, the kind of how we promote that through the medical themes. So we've got, we've got elements of me, in, a medical gown within the promo.

 We've got the, the Kerry, the, the, the, the face of the, the clinic, which is what the show was called,with, uh, she's a model and actress that I put, that photographed so that we could use her as the, the face of the show. And, and what that allows is it's, it, it becomes its own brand of, of IP so that the clinic is one show from Hauser Thrills.

And then I can then build that world and pop that up in various locations. And then. That that can be its own idea and its own living ecosystem as a, as a thing. And that's what I wanted to do. And the, the clinic and the, the whole theme felt like the most, topical of the time amongst the, all the other ideas that I'd got kicking about.

Kyle mini: so I went down that road, but that were a difficult choice because [00:16:00] obviously the other ideas that I've got. They, I still think that they're valid and good and they're gonna come in future. Um, but they're, they're something that that can be built upon. But it's just something that I felt could be more, more on of its time in, in 2025.

Radim: I'm gonna tweak your quote from earlier. It says, ideas that never happen. This is ideas that will definitely happen. But, uh, before we get onto the dopamine as an outcome of, of your work, let's talk about a cortisol and stress and planning, because it takes a lot of self-discipline. 

you made a noise about it saying, Hey, this is what I'm doing. And in some way I think it's a fantastic way of like, not having anywhere to hide makes you get that thing done. Right. how did you stop yourself from freaking out and going, okay, the clock is on.

I've got 90 days. What the hell do I do? How do I do it?

Kyle mini: I think you've gotta bring a little bit of structure to it. so you've gotta allow yourself that freedom to create, but, allocate time for you to, to do certain [00:17:00] tasks, or try and do that, because the, it will always be. Ever evolving as a, as a, as a timeline given the, the constraint and the, the pressure that's there.

But what I did was block out time saying, I've got six weeks to do the work. I've got this to do this, this, to do that. And then block it out where you can like, then do the logistics and break it out, try and come up with a bit of a plan for first and foremost, unfortunately them curve balls will come. Uh,and as an example in, in this scenario, I thought I had.

12 weeks to do the, the whole kind of design of the show. The work of the show. And, and, and I had to move the timelines, the, I had to sort offramers out to get the logistics in. I would recommend anybody getting the logistics done first, because they were the, the thing that were the, the hardest. But when I found the framers up, the framers wanted six weeks.

Kyle mini: so that allowed, that halved my production time instantly. and that, that threw a curve ball and an immense amount of stress. Especially when they [00:18:00] were at the other end of the country where I were getting them done as well. so they weren't just down the road. but in terms of managing it from a, an emotional standpoint, I think it's, I think I'm.

I'm quite used to doing this, in the sense that I've, I've through a little bit of experience and point myself in them constant, pressure situations of doing something new. I've got accustomed to doing it, which is a cheap answer I appreciate. But I think it's just allowing yourself to freak out if you need to and getting it out of your system.

' cause that's what I've done in the past is get it outta your system. Talk, talk to your partner, talk to a friend, or whatever. Whoever it is. And then once you've voiced these, these fears, these kind of ideas, you tend to figure them out as you're voicing them and realize actually, oh, I've come up with a plan for that already.

Kyle mini: so that's what I tend to do, is get it off your chest. It sounds so simple, but it's so. It, it's avoided half the time through either if you say it out loud, it's real, or just the fear of saying it [00:19:00] out loud in the first place. But it, it really does help in them scenarios because you, you, you will just figure it out as you're talking and, and use people as a sounding board.

Radim: It also takes some time to actually get things processed in our brains. and actually make sense of them. like the, the, the pathways are being made as we processing things, like how we sleep on it.

 how we give it time to actually know, ferment in our brains 

 That's the beauty of doing this in a short space of time that this, you've always got something to do and something that is a different task. So if it's a creative thing that you are. Working on that you're stuck on, put it down, put it down, walk away, pick something else up and you will figure it out in the background.

Kyle mini: And that, that to me is another benefit to putting the time constraint in, is that there's no, oh, I'll just go and sit on my ass for another, for a, for half it. No, no, I've gotta be on with something else. But it'll be a different task. So if you are just thinking about how to get a van from A to B, that is a different task to create in a piece of art.

and. I find that that helps in that scenario of that you will use [00:20:00] the back of your mind or just be sat there figuring it out as you, are doing a different task.

Radim: I try to visualize it in a way that, imagine that there's a, there's a football and there's 11 of you on the pitch of trying to achieve 11 different things. 11 of you are like basically 11 eight year olds playing football because they're all running to the ball at the same time.

thanks brain. Uh,they're all running to the ball at the same time and no one's winning, no one's passing. It's just like, how do you separate and go, okay, you Lord, sit down. let's divide the tasks. Let's divide like how we need to do things and then actually make a plan because.

So many things come to us so complicated at first, only to realize, you tell your partner should be like, what are you talking about? This is all simple. What you, what you on

Kyle mini: Oh yeah. yeah. And that's, that's why I, I mean, firstly, a, a team of 11 Kyles on the football team. Wow. What a team that would be. But I do think that, that, that you always configure these things out, but you just, you, you either give yourself [00:21:00] too much time and you trip yourself up. Or you kind offorget about it and put it off and it's just, yeah, talk to people, figure it out.

But do other things in the, some people use running, some people use like yourself, cycling, gym, whatever that be, get active, get doing other things, and your brain will figure these things out.

Radim: I mean, yeah, and it's, it's wonderful. I think, and I've been laboring this for quite a bit, like how much more. Privilege or how much more rewarding that is to actually have time to think about stuff, because again, not 11 Kyles, I mean, that would be a fantastic team if you say so, but 

 90 days of cortisol and eating yourself alive by making this happen and realizing you only got six weeks to do stuff rather than 12 weeks.

Radim 2: how did you even set up, like, I mean, I want to know how did you curate the show? Because I was expecting something. I got something totally different and I was so excited that it was so different. We'll talk about the detail and everything that you put in the show, but how did you [00:22:00] curate it? 

 How did you do it? 'cause I'm curious.

Kyle p2: So that's what the first task of the 90 days was, to find. The space first. So a lot of people would create the work and then go looking for the space. The, the space came first, so I decided that I wanted to do it in London, pretty early on because I think that the intention and. the intention really for the, for the brand is to build something that is, that has scale and that has reach.

And London really is the best place for that. and, and, and especially for the show. So I went looking for places that felt right. and dropped on a place in HOR that had a little bit, it had a glass front that had a bit of a look of a medically themed place. it had a few things that I would love to have changed, but like, you're never gonna find something that's absolutely perfect.

Kyle p2: so I went through the negotiations with the landlord first and got that over the line. Once that were done, it was then time [00:23:00] to work on the, the concept and the, the, the kind of core of the body of the work. And what I, once I got the location, I knew that that, that I. Wanted to tile pieces on the wall, in a certain, certain way.

So it had a look, and that allowed me to get the scale and size of each piece, uh, because I measured it to the wall. and it allows the show to be a little bit more considered. you're not just doing you, I think there's a balance to be done on this where you've gotta create something that ultimately can end up in somebody's home, because that's, you intend to sell these things, or I did anyway.

 So you've gotta create something that's suitable for a home, but then it is suitable for the environment that it's going into to, to be the show, because the show is, is the, the thing that we're working on. And, as I went along, I wanted to create ver various pieces of different sizes and scales that could go in different locations, and push myself to do different mediums as well.

so the materials that were used in some of the, the pieces were something that I'd never used before. and that came. As a result of just like working through these of what is this piece gonna be? [00:24:00] How can we do that? one of the pieces is a giant lolly. I knew that part of the show is when you go to the clinic, or when you go to the doctors, you were rewarded with a sticker or hopefully as a kid, a lolly.

 And that were part of the theme is that you would have a lolly to enjoy and like look at the work. And all these spaces became available thanks to finding that exact space that we're in London in shortage.

Radim 2: That's, that's a nice level of detail. I mean, 'cause I, I know the venue you've chosen.

I, I think there was a, I think there was a sold be bagel, I think in play as well, in a nearby location that sealed a deal for you because it was near Brick Lane and a famous, uh, bagel shop, which, I mean, it's a, it's

a legend. It's 

Kyle p2: it's life changing when you go there. Everybody who goes to London or doesn't live in London, go, go to bag bake. It's life changing.

Radim 2: So how many bagels did you actually manage to run a show? 

Kyle p2: one for breakfast, one for for lunch, was pretty much the standard issue I used to get. I, depending on what time I got in. The beauty of that place is that it's open 24 hours, so no matter what time I got in it were a bagel lunch, and [00:25:00] then depending on how later I finished it rather

Radim 2: I mean, you can hear, you can hear people asking. So let's, let's go into the, let's go into the fillings. Is it the same one or what

Kyle p2: on, I discovered right. I'm, I'm obviously from Yorkshire, so I'm stereotypically type. and what I discovered is you, the next door did a flat white for four quid, and if you go a bagel bait, you can get a, a coffee and a cream cheese bagel for four quid, so that will breakfast and then salt beef all day.

Kyle p2: for, for anything beyond breakfast,

Radim 2: I like it. ' cause you just mentioned money and you said I'm tight, but you are not tight with the production budget because how quickly did you realize that in the words of Ross Camp, is gonna kick off?

Kyle p2: Oh, it kicked off. yeah, I, I. I think that that were the, one of the difficult, most difficult things to get my head round and one of the side benefits to doing this show. I wanted to get into the mindset of what it's like when a client comes to me to work on a project and they're spending their money with [00:26:00] me.

And that understanding now of putting your own money into, I've, I've put my own money into other businesses and, and the studio in the past, but this is slightly different because this is an unknown outcome and very quickly, very early on. When it became the materials that I wanted to use for some of the, the, the pieces, because what I'm creating, something that I would want to stand up in any gallery within the world.

 And, uh, the pieces, the materials that were used were, were very expensive. 24 karat gold. I remember having this conversation on the phone with the, like, do you want fake gold or 24 karat gold? I'm like. Who would pick fake gold? Like I cannot honestly say to somebody like, oh, is this real gold? No, it's fake gold.

 No, it's 24 karat gold. And it turns out rather gold's expensive. news flash for everybody. And yeah, it started to spiral from that point, which we pretty early on and the budget just, yeah, ended up doubling. because I took a firm belief that if we're doing it. Like I [00:27:00] do with every project. If you're doing something, you either, you, you either see it through and do it right, or just don't bother.

The world doesn't need more kind of meh. go and do it properly. And I do believe that is the longevity to, to creativity it. Because I think there's the, the lower end of the market, the, the slop as, as it's now been branded, that's gonna be taken over by, By, by AI and other technologies that's gonna come in.

I think people are gonna seek something that is a little bit more experiential and a little bit more special. So when you start layering in this, this thing, spiraled because the material costs, but then when you're booking actors to come and, uh, to come and work at the show and you want, uh, you want the music to be right, we've got a free bar, you know, allthat kind of thing going off it, it adds up.

And the budget doubled. Yeah.

Radim 2: this is an interesting thing, obviously from an experience I. I never thought that I would be publishing books in the way I am. I never thought that I'd be spin of self-publishing or creating my own publishing company [00:28:00] and spending money on advertising.

And there was this element when I realized like how much of an ambition there was and how much of a drive to make it happen where I was at that time at four books. I was printing my fourth book plus the reprint on the first three, and the printing bill was 55,000 pounds. Right. For 35,000 books.

 Would I ever imagined that I would spend 55,000 pounds on re, like literally like, okay, there's profits from the book. I mean, it's been a highly profitable exercise for a while. And you realize like, this is astronomical figures because I think I spent like 800 quid on my first. A thousand brochures or whatever it was, like this would, it did seem like monumental spend.

 But again, we talking about the fact like have everything adds up. How everything adds up. you're not gonna go and spend 55 grand on books. They're not proven Mr. You're gonna go and grow Little by little to get to where you need to be because we go through this life and, and collect the information, influence the inspiration in form of ideas to give us a sort of experience of how to do things.

Because as you said, when things started [00:29:00] escalating really quickly, is that sort of life and work grown resilience. That, and, and, and endurance that go kicks in and says, and, and realize. I want this to be good. Therefore, I'm gonna step up. And again, being publicly, publicly accountable to this, what was the best outcome of this show?

Because you're making that show only once and you put in your right foot forward, right? So I believe like when you really strive to do something mega, you always find money. You always find a ways to make it happen.

Kyle p2: There's, there's a beauty in the naivety to, to things when you put yourself in a, a position of, I don't necessarily know what I'm doing or what I'm getting into because I think the outcome. Is is often better. I, I heard something from Noel Gallagher recently, and it really hit where he, he were talking about, don't look back in anger, and he wrote that on a Sunday night or whatever, just picked up his ga guitar and, and wrote it and. He was saying that if he understood the enormity of that [00:30:00] song whilst writing it, it would've never been written because he would've put himself too much under too much pressure to just get it out and to get it right and to metic, meticulously, like craft every word. He just did it and then put it down, put his guitar down and off.

He went to pub or whatever he did. And I think there's a beauty in that naivety and, and, and the, the unknown and putting yourself in them scenarios where. You've, you can just create freely. And in this, in my scenario is that, yes, I didn't understand getting into it, but if I'd have known at the start, oh, it's gonna cost this much money, then that would've probably held me back from doing it because I would've gone, oh shit, what if it didn't work out?

Oh, this is really like too much. And You put a contingency in and then you smash through that and it's like, oh, again, we're, we're in a hole here. But it goes back to that earlier point of point yourself into that hole, into that dark kinda shadowy area to then allow yourself to grow out of it.

And I really do think that, that, I know that personally the outcome of the show has been, amazing to, to you the feedback to have the response. But, and, and, some of the conversations [00:31:00] that I've had as a result of it are great, but personally. The the growth that I've had in terms of from an emotional standpoint, going into another thing like this, I'm planning one of the next challenges for term for 2026 and like I feel so much more at ease as a result of doing that because I've just built that kind of emotional resilience and I think that that is so important, the resilience that we build emotionally and intellectually in a creative career because it is difficult.

Radim 2: You gone. You've gone definitely the extra mile. On that chapter, and I love a quote by Don Martel, and he said, the last mile is hardly ever crowded because not many people are prepared to go that far.

 And it's is the uncomfortable, it's the uncomfortable. Like you not going to win by doing it easy. Like we, we have the glorification of the, of the final reel of the show reel of like, oh, how did you do that? And then. You get to hear all the details about how things nearly [00:32:00] didn't happen, how they broke, how they, how they glued together the duct tape.

Not just to make the thing be together and you realize that's what life is about because we are aspiring to, there, there's definitely people, I'm, I'm sure there's people aspiring to be brought nor right in another. No, don't look back in anger, but that wasn't written. An aspiration to write.

Don't look back in angry as you described. that was just like, Hey, I'm doing my thing. I'm here with my thoughts and I'm doing it for myself. Because ultimately that's what matters the most. I'm doing it for myself.

Kyle p2: That, that's the key thing. I, they, I came to a real realization when doing House of Thrills, when you, when you splitting my time away from the other side of, of, of my creative, career and life is like, is this the right decision? And you come to a realization that if. You won the lottery, what would you be doing if you had like endless funds and endless time to be doing whatever you, this is what I'd be doing.

I'd be building shows and releasing products and creating things. It's exactly what I'd be doing and I feel really privileged and lucky to be able to do that. But you know, I've, I've spent [00:33:00] years to. Working towards to put myself in that sit situation. So you've gotta firstly create for yourself and then be strategic enough to be then thinking, actually this'll work for a broader audience.

This, this can like be a brand that can be more accessible to people. You can apply some strategy and business and creative thinking to that. But first and foremost, you've gotta, you've gotta wanna pick the guitar up for yourself and sing the song or create the piece of art or whatever it be.

Radim 2: I love what you said earlier is the beauty of naivety because. We are flying, it's quite comfortable to fly the flag at the beginning and says, Hey, I'm doing this stuff. It's, it's clicking together, but I dunno what I'm doing. And you say to the room of no creatives and they're clapping like, Hey dude, you dunno what you're doing, but it's looking good.

Then you get to the point of like, maybe I should know what I'm doing. Like ignorance is not always the excuse for things. And I've gone to the other side of the argument thinking like, is it a cop art for our industry? Like, are we, are we not, [00:34:00] are we setting ourselves for not looking professionals? Like, I don't know what I'm doing, but, so thinking you need to know what you're doing.

 but there is a, the other side of the coin is, is equally corrosive because when you know too much. You're like, I need the uncomfortable, I need that unknown. I need to work it out because like knowing the, the answers. It doesn't always spur you, like, you know how to write an next, don't look back in anger, would you really write it or would you actually try to write something different?

 And that's my question, like, do we, where is that, where is the peak in between the two, two sides of the coin on the edge? I mean, how much do you wanna know? Because being no, the beauty in naivety is, is, is, is a fantastic way of being because it actually helps you to open the doors that you didn't, didn't even know existed.

Kyle p2: I think, I think it comes down to adhering to your principles that I want to create things of quality with whatever I create, and that can, that's sector agnostic. So I think once you have that grounding root of your own kind of personal beliefs and principles within the work, [00:35:00]  the work can then go off into any direction, that you see fit or would like to search down.

And for me, with creativity, especially with when you get a client brief, if you know the answer at the start of the project, then you're doing it wrong. Because it's not about, not if you, you're not creating anything, you're just replicating something that you've, either you've done before, you're resting on your laurels, you're in a CA certain scenario that.

You know what you're doing. The, the, the whole point of creativity is to create something, to make something. And it's like, it's like knowing the answer to the jigsaw puzzle before you've, you've, you've started, you, that's not the point of the, the game. The point of the game is to not know what you're doing and join the dots and create the thing that is right for the.

 The, the setting, the project, the target audience, whatever that be. and I think that that is the, often the thing that's lost within this sector is, do you know it's not professional to not know what you're doing Well, no. You you are the expert that is paid to play [00:36:00] with a blank canvas. If you put a blank piece of paper down in front of a lot of people, they freak out, create me something.

Oh no, I can't do that. We welcome it. We go, oh yeah, cool. What's the constraints? Where's the, where's the edges? Where's the edges to this? Where's where can we go? Where can we not? And you figure it out, and you put it together like a puzzle. And, and I think that, so that's the answer for, for me, is, is always pointing yourself in, resting on your principles and your experience, but pushing yourself outta your comfort zone to not actually know the answer and the outcome at the beginning.

' because you will get there.

Radim 2: You mentioned constraints, and There are no better constraints than a physical materials, physical, physical exhibition that, you need to almost narrow down the list of options.

So you had a mixture of different pieces. So again, for those who didn't see the show online or didn't, didn't attend, You mentioned frames, and you mentioned framers on the other side of the country, so I would like to know why you've chosen them, but [00:37:00] what was the whole sort of idea behind the, the eclecticness of the show that had so many varied pieces tied together with one theme, but how did you decide on.

You know what these pieces would be? Why would you spend money on 24? I mean, use Whole us. Why would you spend money on 24 Current Gold? But like there were other elements that elevated the show. So yeah, constraints, supplies, suppliers, decisions and limitations, potentially financial and even, material resourceful.

Kyle p2: I, I wanted, a body of work that could feel cohesive, but that had that kind of, oh, I like this, but I. Don't like that one, but I'm, I'm interested in this and what is this? And bringing, the, my interest into like bringing physical products to life as well as, something that is, that we're more traditionally used to having a, having a piece of paper to, to play with or a canvas.

Kyle p2: so I created these wooden dopamine sculptures, that were, they were very testing to do, in that [00:38:00] timeframe, but I wanted to represent our. Addiction to dopamine. In this, I called it super dope and it's, like a, one of them is a 50 centimeter in diameter dopamine pill that is, has that kind of depth to it, where it's called the big red pill.

Which is, linked to the Matrix. a few people picked up on it. but the, the idea is that the, the, you are stepping into a world where we've got all these little boxes of, likes and filters and dopamine. So it brings together my experience in graphic design and branding in the physical products that I've made in the chairs and the lighting that I've done in the past.

It brings together all these skills that I've stacked over the years that I wanted to Deploy. so it's allowing, it's not restricting myself to one medium is what I wanted to do with Azure, because I felt as though that that makes it more immersive. It makes it more accessible for people that might like a particular thing.

IE if you like sculpture, if you like, pieces on the wall. the frames that were purely a, a, a quality choice. the, i, the, the [00:39:00] framers that I used, I used to framing in people like Julian Opie's work. and they've, they've, they've, and. Bella Freud's, these are people that I look up to and, and if I'm gonna get to that level, then why not play at that level at the very beginning?

Kyle p2: and, and so I source them the very best things that I could use to then use the, the, that at my disposables at, at my disposal. So that. I can create the best possible product, within the timeframe and within obviously, budget restraints, because that, that does come into it. And then the materials used were both a creative decision.

Kyle p2: so it wasn't just banging 24 karat gold on these things. 24 karat gold is a link to the. The, the depth to the work. So we're all lust after likes and validation and dopamine and all these things that we seek. these are shi these, the, the dopamine element is the new shiny magpie. the thing that we magpie towards, which is [00:40:00] traditionally 24 carat gold within society.

We look at the shiny thing that glistens for centuries, and we seek it and we want it. And we, we we, we, we want it and need it. And as lives, and it's kind of a, a depth to the work that I wanted to put in that it's there if people want it, but also it looks cool and, and it can be as shallow as that.

and that you know that you've got something, that's luxury.

Radim 2: you've summarized it really well when you say like, you put your food right, obviously you where you want to be you. You play to that level. You play at high stakes game rather than let's make it work. let's do something about it. Like whatever, whatever goes, because ultimately that, that level of achievement and that the level of strife gets rewarded by, recognition that it's, it's, I mean, it looked established, it looked incredible, and.

 I thought I knew what to expect And I was beautifully surprised by getting so much more because I, and that sounds weird when we say, when we say this as humans, like, I didn't expect it. And that was my hit of [00:41:00] dopamine. That was my like, oh shit. Yeah, it, it took me a minute to really get it, took me a minute to absorb, like how much effort's gone into it and how quickly you did all of it, and the level of detail that you put into this was astounding because. I've only like discovered some of the details from the photos afterwards because it's a me right.

Obviously it's, it's a show. Obviously. lots of people, some people travel from Scotland and far apart, like it was incredible to see how people, how you brought people together and in our community. But it was some of the things that are so thought out, so well ex executed and because they're just a tiny detailed, but a really important detail.

It's like, oh shit. It took me like a, a second time to just to relive the show and going like, oh, that's what it all was. That was incredible. So, yeah, I mean, to have that, that detail that you've put into it, you've written all the copy like you created, like it was established, like No, I mean, that sounds silly to say that, but like, it was an half-assed effort.

It was like, it was, it was playing [00:42:00] high stakes game. Whatever you do with it next, it's, it's already standing on really tall legs rather than trying to walk and yeah, it's as, as you can tell, I'm, I'm so happy. I'm so, so, so happy for you that that's what you did and the effort that you put into it because you Yeah, you've created your own game.

Like that's, that's for sure.

Kyle p2: Thanks, man. It, it does mean a lot. I, it's the, the feedback has been humbling. I never know what to do with a compliment because, you, you, you want to, you strive to do these things and when they actually pull 'em off, it's for, it's always for other people to say of, of, of how good or how well they enjoyed it and, and how good they thought it were.

So I really do appreciate it. but I do think that that's the, the. It's the immense amount of effort that went into it that, that, that paid off. And, and yeah, don't get me wrong, it's not, it wasn't a healthy process, I wanna say. It's, it's not a healthy process to to put yourself in that, under that much pressure for the, I I thrive on it, but it's, it, it's one of those that, I have [00:43:00] propelled things and accelerated things to a certain point.

And I do think that, that when you skill stack like this, you can create different things. 'cause I've never wanted to niche. Down in my, abilities. And I think that, that, that show with a representation of, of what, what you can do when you get used to like pointing yourself in them uncomfortable scenarios because the all of it is not something that I've done before.

Kyle p2: but you put yourself under that, again, coming back to that, it must be the very best I can do and that that changes and evolves, but that's grounding it in them principles that I, I believe in, in the work.

Radim 2: There's something magical when we can choose our own problems, like to be able to choose our own problems makes you already halve the level of cortisol and stress because on client projects. You have to deal with the constraints given to you, whatever, whatever the work needs to be plugged into, whatever we need to do with it.

And your skill stack, as you mentioned, is driven by their demand, by their requirements. Whereas you can choose your own skill stack. You can actually. [00:44:00] Cherry pick the through curiosity and obsession. Like, okay, I wanna know this, I wanna do this. I wanna choose my own problems because when I'm dealing with my own problems, as you say, sometimes it's unhealthy, but it's your own problems and it makes you not hate what you do because you're like, you're gonna see it through.

Kyle p2: And that, and that's exactly why I think pressure is a privilege. I, it is ultimately you're putting yourself in that position that you're under pressure. But what a situation to be in. I've put myself in a position that I can create a show in London on under my own steam and do what I want with it. that's a privilege.

Like that's amazing. It's an immense amount of pressure. Course it is. But what, what a ride, what an experience and irrelevant of the outcome, the memories that are built from it, and the kind of experience and emotional kind of, growth from it. Is worth every step and every painful kind of part of the process.

Kyle p2: thankfully, obviously it's, it, it, it were reasonably successful. there were no, [00:45:00] there were no kind of measure of success on this one. It was, what do, people kept asking me, oh, what, what do you expect from this? I'm like, no, absolutely nothing. I, I, I hope at the very best that people will turn up and they will enjoy it.

That is the bare minimum. I'm not doing this in the, as a result of do X and Y we'll come out of it. It's that, that weren't the, I think we've gotta be the, the kind of path that I'm on at the minute is a long-term play. It's not something that I'm trying to build a world out with House of Thrills. That's why I'm not put it under my own name.

I'm trying to build a world out that I can play within, and that involves many chapters and many things that will come out of it. And this is just a, I've raced 90 days is to get to the starting point, get to the start line, and then start running.

Radim 2: Well, you create, you created what I call the eternal lesson in staying present. Like when you, when you don't think about what's beyond the moment, what's beyond the opening doors. Like you just, you work in [00:46:00] and you focus in, getting and getting yourself in a state of flow stressed, state of flow.

But, we getting there because it's all stressful. it's the best way to be because. It's the validation. Like when we think of, and I, again, I think, I don't think there's an episode of this podcast when I talk don't, when I don't talk about self-acceptance as a part of creative work, because surprise, surprise, it's a chapter in a, in a new book and talking about self-acceptance.

But when we celebrate our uniqueness, when we think about like how do you stick to your own narrative? And when you focus on your narrative, that helps you to focus on what you're doing because. At first when we were younger, more selfish with your ideas, ego-centric, you were like, Hey, do you like this?

Because you need that immediate validation to say Yes, carry on. Whereas when you get much further down the road, you are like, I don't give a shit what people think because the first person that needs to meet it needs to make sense to is me. And then you see what happens next because it's not. sociopathic way of working like, yeah, I don't care what people think because ultimately you, you still will have some [00:47:00] sort of feedback and you said, and you said earlier that you dunno how to take a compliment because you are still processing like how this works and what I'm doing with this and finding your own way through.

So that delayed gratification, it's a skill that comes with time because yeah, we, you can't learn it. You can't teach it, you can't tell people to be that, it's something that you pick up as you go.

Kyle p2: I think it's, it's really important. I think it's the, the situation that you've gotta hit your own bar. Set yourself that bar, again, the principle side of it, if you hit your own bar and level of quality. Then it doesn't really matter what people think. If you, if you feel that it's the right work for the, for you and what you are creating, I fully accept that some people come in, like I have had polarizing reviews of, of one of the popular pieces that sold, quite a few of the, the, the giant skull, which is, called like to death.

Kyle p2: somebody. Beau so beautifully described the piece of being of its time and being, really has [00:48:00] a good balance between satirical and, and dark humor and, of its time for kind of the social commentary that it is. And they, they understood. They said it better than I, I could and I created the piece of work.

And then the other polarizing view is, why the fuck would you want a skull on your wall? And like, and it's like. That's both are correct, both are valid, both we create, we, we create platforms, and this is the beauty of it. When, when people, people often ask what, what? Do you worry about what people think about your work?

And to me it's like we create the platform for opinion. So we create a piece of work for, to allow people to allow others to have an opinion. I would so, so much rather be on the pitch playing the game than being the stands, throwing their opinions about, I wanna be on the game, I wanna be on the pitch, playing the game.

Every single time. And sometimes I will play badly or some people will think I shouldn't be playing and that's fine 'cause I'm still gonna play. And, and I think that once you [00:49:00] hit that bar, that only comes from that kind of self, self-confidence. and I'm not quite sure what it is, but that kind of hitting that bar of, I'm gonna create this for me and hit a standard that I expect of myself.

And then if, if that results in a positive or negative outcome, it doesn't really matter. obviously you're human, you want it to be positive, but it's better that you still play the game.

Radim 2: I mean, it's interesting when you just said you were human, you wanted to be positive, because positive is the positive fuel. But yeah, it's an interesting one. Stop me from thinking about 11. Kyles again, like you wanna be on a pitch. 11 Kyles back 

Kyle p2: It brings, it brings the football pitch analogy back. But the, the, yeah, it's, it, it, I say that more in the, in the sense just to be, I suppose, real is that, you want a response regardless, positive or negative. But if you're gonna flip a coin, which one, which side would you rather it land on? I'd rather it land on positive like, yes, course.

Because, and the reason, the reason why is not. To, to give me the gratification [00:50:00] because it's normally, especially in the creative world, if you get a positive response for something, you get further momentum that will change your trajectory into a different project or other things going forward.

If somebody constantly pans you work, then there's less likely hood of something happening going forward or, or other people wanting to work with you that. You, we can question that because I think that that unfortunately is why we've got a lot of people on social media that's got clout.

I'm going down a different earlier, but the, the social media kind of game where if you've got the kind of validation from others that, that you will get the work, but they're not necessarily the right people for the work. So I understand that part of the scenario is that, that people want that kind of social proof that this is good.

Radim 2: It made me, it made me think of something. When you put stuff out, people like it. You're thinking, oh, they like my work. They're, they're associated with this. They may potentially understood the point, and then you meet them in a social setting and they're like, oh, that's, is that you who did that thing? Is that [00:51:00] you?

You're like, yeah, that's me. You're thinking it doesn't fucking matter, does it? Like people just think, click, click, click, click, click, click, click carry on. Whereas it's what you did just show, like literally puts a focus on the spotlight, on the fact, like how important it is to do this in public, how important it's to bring back to the values and to the experiences that we had in the past.

Because yeah, it's so easy to get click, click, click, click, click. I mean, this is a terrible thing of saying like, likes and, and, and clapping hands or whatever.

Kyle p2: That's what the CHO about. In terms of not seeking out that validation. Seeking validation through. The people around you and the real people that's in your life as opposed to the kind of faux shiny thing. that, that's why a lot of the pieces, in the show had diamond dust on, is that they glint in the light and they like say that you have that magpie effect where you seek out that shiny, shiny thing and, and, and it's like just a, that visual reminder, a physical reminder within the, that you hang in your, your, your house, your flat, wherever you live.

Kyle p2: [00:52:00] That is a reminder that the physical dopamine is so much better than the, the kind of online thing that we build a world and as minds, to think that that is actually what we want. It's very instant, but very shallow. And the whole point of house thrills going forward is to, to try and. build these events that, that are, are live events that bring people within, the same room.

 the thing that I'm most proud about with the show in particular is not doing, it to the quality and the, all the kind of nice things that you've said. And doing it in the time constraint, it's the feedback on the atmosphere within the room, that I'm the most proud of because that were the most important to me is that you can, like the work, you can hate the work.

That's indifferent to me. you're entitled to that and you are correct whichever way. but it's the, the atmosphere.

Radim 2: Yeah, dude. I mean, what you're describing is exactly what happened and I just, I just love that drive of what you created. And it was nice to be part of an not tiny smidgen being part of the story of, with, with, partnership with LAX Coffee where yeah, we [00:53:00] provided hospitality. We, we did a collaboration on a Kiss of Life coffee, which, as you told me, it was stolen quite a lot, which is always fun to hear.

 But again, I think what I, obviously, what I've been doing with my side projects and their various sort of capacities is like. How do you start a thing that can be a collaboration, how can be a conversation? How can you do something Because ultimately, sitting at home and complaining that an Adobe cloud has gone from 51 pounds to 52 pounds, and then that's the time to cancel your subscription.

Yeah. It's not a fucking point of life. Is it like, it's like how do you do things that you can actually inspire people, be build a community and actually bring people together, is something that we. Once upon a time we used to do on a regular basis, whereas now we celebrate it as, as something which is special.

So I think what we need to do is just to carry on where we've been with the knowledge we've got now and how we do it. So Kyle, I was looking forward to this one because I knew. There's so much more to talk about this is the thing that I've been cheering you on from the sidelines and making sure that you've got the support from our side just to, to [00:54:00] make sure that, to get to the other side and making it happen is gonna bring us so much kinda reward and, and relief and, and, and, and validation in what you created.

Because through many conversations that you and I had was like, who else is doing anything like this right now? In our industry, and the answer was always no one. So to put yourself out there to spend the money to, to put your, in a way, neck on the line in a way of like, put setting your bank account on fire.

What you're gonna remember for a years to come is how you make people feel in that room. What you put in that detail, what what is now, which skulls are now hanging on people's walls because too, right? They should be skull on everyone's wall. So, as I'm a big fan. I salute you for what you're doing.

and I'm so excited for, 2026 and beyond for what you can create with this, because creating your own universe, creating your own world, is always the most satisfying thing to do. So well done.

Kyle p2: I really appreciate it [00:55:00]