Kelly Anna is a London-based artist, illustrator and designer known for her vibrant, movement-driven work for brands including Nike, Adidas and Rapha. 

In this episode, she traces the creative foundations behind her unmistakable style: a father who was both an artist and a Latin dance teacher, childhood sketchbooks filled with dancers at ballroom competitions, years of keeping break-dancing hidden from her art school peers, and a long, patient process of building a visual language entirely her own. 

Kelly talks candidly about the emotional rollercoaster of freelance life, the relationship between personal work and commercial confidence, and why colour has always been her first language.

Takeaways

• Confidence in freelance life is cyclical — the work is learning to accept that ride, not fight it
• Returning to personal projects during slow periods is what restores creative confidence and generates new commercial work
• Building a clear style within a niche (sport, movement, female empowerment) makes it easier for the right brands to find you
• Saying no to misaligned work is a privilege you build toward — and it protects both your style and your energy
• Trying new mediums (oils, charcoal, collage) isn't a distraction — it feeds back into your main practice in unexpected ways
• Your biography is your aesthetic: Kelly's love of dance, movement and sport didn't disappear when she chose art — it became her entire visual language
• Human connection remains irreplaceable — even in an AI era, the value of making something with another person, with all its surprises and happy mistakes, endures

Daring Forever. Podcast with Radim Malinic

daringcreativity.com |  desk@daringcreativity.com

Books by Radim Malinic Paperback and Kindle > https://amzn.to/4biTwFc
Free audiobook (with Audible trial) > https://geni.us/free-audiobook
Book bundles  https://novemberuniverse.co.uk

Lux Coffee Co. https://luxcoffee.co.uk/  (Use: PODCAST for 15% off)
November Universe https://novemberuniverse.co.uk (Use: PODCAST for 10% off)

Kelly: .[00:00:00]  when I do a piece of artwork and someone wants to buy that, that alone, again, that's that feeling of like validation that someone else sees what I see. with it the way I have felt it in my body.

Like I've,I've felt that feeling to create and make this piece, but then to have another human connect with it is just, yeah, it's amazing and that's why we keep doing it. it's a human connection thing for me as well. It's like someone else feels what I feel. And they felt what I'm trying to get across.

That's what I find really beautiful. And and you know, when I always say like, when someone buys a piece of your work and puts it in their home, when people have artwork in their home, it almost becomes [00:01:00] part of their DNA. 

Welcome to the Daring Creativity Podcast, a show about daring to forever explore creativity that isn't about chasing shiny perfection. It's about showing up with all your doubts and imperfections and making them count. It's about becoming more of who you already are. My name is Radim Malinic I'm a designer, author, and eternally curious human being.

 I am talking to a broad range of guests who share their stories of small actions that sparked lifetime discoveries, taking one step towards the thing that made them feel most alive. 

 Let me begin this episode with a question. Are you ready to discover what happens when you dare to create? Today I'm speaking with Kelly Anna, a London based artist and [00:02:00] illustrator whose vibrant movement driven work has taken her from independent galleries to global campaigns, a career shaped by childhood spend sketching Latin dancers from the sidelines in years of break dancing and gymnastics. Her journey spans the space between wanting to be a dancer and becoming an artist from years of quiet behind the scenes work in print and apparel. To the two year stretch of blind faith that finally unlocked her unmistakable visual style and voice. In this conversation, Kelly talks about a confidence rollercoaster of freelance life, why personal work is the only antidote to creative drought and what it means when color becomes a language everyone can feel.

 It's my pleasure to share with you my conversation with Anna. 

Radim: Hey, Kelly, it is great to have you here. How are you doing?

Kelly: Good. Thanks for having [00:03:00] me. I'm actually good on cold though.

Radim: it's great to see you. And, as I've just told you, our pre-conversation, I've been very much aware of what you do, how you do it, and as a fellow lover of color, it's always whenever you create something, I am equally amazed and kind of a little bit envious about, you know, what you can do and how you do it, because it's just full of energy and style.

 But for someone unlike me who knows your work, who's Kelly Anna, would you do? How would you introduce yourself?

Kelly: I find that really hard when someone asks me that. but hi, my name's Anna. yeah, I'm an artist, illustrator, designer. I'm trying to still figure out what I call myself, but we'll start with that. so yeah, I, my work, I do a lot of, kind of work predominantly in, sport movement, wellness, female empowerment, feel like female empowerment, it's kind it's gone for a ride, hasn't it? But, it, my work is all based on that. And, I love to story tell, and a lot of my work kind of comes [00:04:00] from, storytelling. I guess so, yeah.

Radim: I like when people say it. It is difficult to explain because,

Kelly: ' It's been changing every year.

Radim: ' cause it's funny, like how you see yourself and how I would see yourself because Yeah, I would say illustrator, artist, and that's how your work could be potentially perceived for clients by audience, by let's say art collectors.

But it's amazing that to you it's, more complicated to how we see it on the outside because people, I guess, don't usually see the inner struggle, the war within going, what am I doing? But

 I mean, is it a good thing to, you know, still be figuring it out? Because I guess you

never finished right. 

Kelly: I think so. well, I've been freelance now for, I think coming up to 10 years. I haven't figured it out and I don't think I will ever figure it out completely. You get more confident with things, and then you lose the confidence and then you get it back and then you lose it.

 And I think it's the same with, our practice and developing. I think it's just a constant figuring [00:05:00] out because things change, and I get really bored. So if things didn't change, I'd just, yeah, I'd want it to change, 

Radim: I have to ask you. You said you have a confidence. You lose a confidence, you have a confidence. You lose a confidence.

 How does it happen?

Kelly: I think it's, I always took used to talk about confidence 'cause I used to struggle with it a lot. and when I was kind of building my work, I didn't have the confidence 'cause I hadn't had any jobs then, hadn't had any work. and then I think you know, the more jobs come in, then you start to get a bit of confidence and you're like, oh, okay, maybe there's something in my work.

and then it goes on and then you become freelance and you go into the world and. Then you start losing jobs, and you lose your confidence, and then you get a job and then your confidence comes back. I think a massive part of it is probably just being freelance. It's just this rollercoaster, of emotion.

 It's just like,you're up, then you're down, then you're up. I think over the years, I'm slowly learning [00:06:00] to just accept that, and just find ways to deal with that, those highs and lows. I say it like I'm good at it. I'm definitely not good at it.

Radim: I mean, if it can stay onthe topic of confidence for one more second. It's just, it's really interesting how you say that the confidence is actually just tied to commercial results. if I've got projects, I'm confident, and if I haven't got them, I'm not. But technically, creatively, you're not doing anything different.

 It just depends on external validation. If someone says, yeah, we, we wanna do with you or not.

Kelly: It's funny because, but that's interesting because I used to be more like that, whereas now the way I get my confidence back is because I think a lot of us tie it, the confidence to our commercial work. But the only way I really, in those moments, the only way I actually get my confidence back really is when I go, okay, work's a bit slower, I'm gonna work on my own stuff.

And that's then where the new work starts coming out, and then I get work [00:07:00] again. So it is a push and pull. And I think that's just, to be honest, I think that's quite normal with most freelancers. but it is hard to disconnect that, you know, your level of I guess confidence with your work.

Because as artists, like our work is us, it's so. So personal. So when it is that link to commercial work, it's hard to cut that basically, and just, I guess, yeah, feel that it's not personal. Dunno if that made sense, 

Radim: It made sense and it also made me join the dots with some of my previous guests when I talked to them. And I've spoken to some really incredible names who I would assume that they're working all the time. You know, some people who, let's say, define a particular trends and stars in mid 2000. Some people who've been working in lettering at the forefront of it, and you speak to them and they don't work for six months or they haven't got

the pipeline that you would imagine.

Because I guess what you create, and I think because your style, in my opinion is so ownable, [00:08:00] so unique and recognizable, that it's not always applicable for everyone because otherwise we would need to live in the world of Kelly Anna. Because let's say everyone's commissioned you all the time, where is the trade off?

Kelly: I think it's really hard because as a freelancer you've got to, you're really a business, but it's almost like having a business, but being an artist as well and separating the two is really difficult, but you have to do it because it's the same with style as well.

Like you know what it's like, especially as an illustrator, you get your style and then that is what you are known for and those are the jobs you get. And it's just an ongoing, you know, are almost, it's like a push and pull of, you want to pivot a little bit, but you're like, but I need this work.

And, it's the work I'm getting. But I think that, I think it's really important to say no to. I've always been very careful with what I take on and what I don't. I [00:09:00] say that from a privileged point now because I know at the very beginning it was harder to say no to jobs because I needed the jobs and I needed the work.

Kelly: but now definitely I think it is important to, yeah, just making sure you're taking on the work, that actually aligns with you a lot more. and then in those times that you're not just basically working on your style and working on how you can, develop. I always talk about how important it is to develop even if you've got your style.

Radim: I mean, there's so much that you said because you talk like how you separate a business from the artist and how you do that. Because I've said it before and I will say again, it was Ozzy Osborne who said, as soon as you start booking your own gigs, you're a businessman. And I

feel we are in the business of creativity. Like I think the vehicle that we want to do that expression. Is ultimately what drives us forward [00:10:00] like that. That's where we start. But I think it's really difficult just to be an artist and not worry about business. I think it's just 'cause it's,

inseparable these days.

Right? 

Kelly: it is absolutely inseparable and absolutely can if you've got a lot of money behind you. But we are, if you are in this for business, which most of us are, it's how we live, it's our business. you absolutely need to be a business, and I think it's really important, especially when you're speaking to younger people, is to help them understand that, because also, if you see yourself as a business, also, your worth should be going up as well.

because I think sometimes We think of artists and, you know, oh, we are drawing all day, or, from outside that that's what it might look like. But behind the scenes, we are the same as any other business. We've got to get our clients, we've gotta keep pushing, we've gotta to do marketing, we've gotta do all of the things that businesses do.

Kelly: accounting, all of the really, [00:11:00] I'd say the boring side of business. But, yeah, that it's, for me, I have to say 50% of my, what I do is business and the rest is, yeah. Creating. But

Radim: if you don't look after the business, then you really don't know what your baseline is. what is your foundation and how strong you are.

 how many people do you know who says, I feel like I'm an artist, but I'm gonna start a creative business first and then I'm gonna learn how to paint or draw or express myself.

Radim: and it doesn't happen that way. Or at least if anyone is that way, please get in touch because I really wanna know But when you said when you were younger, you were taking on more of the jobs that you now say no to. And this is that sort of washing machine of that creative business and life and expression, which is like.

What is the thing that aligns with, you know, with your values? Because that's what, you know, that's one of the things you said just a second ago, like jobs that aligned with me and aligned with my values and what I want do. So when we take you back those 10 years ago when you started your own [00:12:00] business, here we go, career

freelance, what did you find out that was almost that sort of rude awakening going, oh, is this what this is all about?

Kelly: I think for me it wasn't so much the going into the first few years 'cause that first few years I just, I remember I got one job I was working freelance at the time, but I was. Contracted in with a company. So I was working at the time, I was working like four days a week for someone else.

And, I had been working on my portfolio and like developing, for the previous two years before I then had the guts to finally leave the employment. But, so I remember I got one of my first jobs and I thought it was a,good amount of money. and it gave me the confidence to go, okay, right, this is your, you've got a little bit of time now if you just wanna take the leap.

and I [00:13:00] took the leap and so that first few years I just went mental. Like I did everything I could get my hands on. I, not saying that I took on jobs with no pay, I never did that, but I more just was just wanting to get my stuff out there. And, You know, contacting people and asking if I could take over spaces.

And, it was more of that rather than letting people come to me and be like, can you do this for no money? It was more just me going to them and being like, look, I've got this idea. Can we do this? it will cost you this. 

Radim: I mean, what you described, I think it's a unique, time in our lives because you're know, a parent, you might have a different responsibilities, you

said, who happens to have money behind them to start a career. Like it, it's again, you know, it might be an anomaly.

And again, if it's you get in touch. I wanna

Kelly: So you pushing yourself in every possible corner and every possible space, every possible commission. it's a unique time because you will never be potentially ever so [00:14:00] hungry as you were that time so

Radim: determined and so pushy, because life changes and it changes into different chapters, and those chapters are necessary because we learn about ourselves different things. Then we reevaluate and say, okay, maybe I'm

gonna 

live the rest of my 

life in this 

Kelly: back had so 

much energy. I dunno if my energy's the same now.

Radim: Well, I mean, it's not the same story when you think about it. It's a developing plot because yeah, I mean, 

I wrote a book about how I used to work 18 hours a day because I loved it, because it was like

everything. And now you realize if I work two, three hours a day, that's a bonus because it's just

like life changes, but you spend more time thinking about what you do because I think it was Obama who won, said look, I'm not as young as I used to be, but I move with purpose.

I'm actually, by the way, butchering the quote,

 but he says, but I move with purpose. I don't jump as far, I don't go as, as fast, but I know what I'm doing. And that's the more important part because when you go energy, what'd you do? You burn it off by doing everything and

anything and not doing it right.[00:15:00] 

Kelly: so true. So true. And also when you, I've got a kid now, and I always used to say, especially in those first few years, like everything I did had to have purpose because I didn't have time to mess about. So anything that I was doing, I was like, right, I really need, this needs to work in this amount of time that I've got.

So you really do, you have to change the way you work, the way you design, the way you concept. everything has to Yeah. That's a really good saying actually. because it's true. Yeah.

Radim: before you went out freelancing, before you did the work, before you discovered who Kelly is creatively, where'd you come from? What was the background? what was the influence in your life that made you be, you know, so colorful, so expressive, so know, extravagant with your shapes.

Kelly: I always say was an artist. My dad is an artist. and it, I always say was because he never went into art himself. He still paints, but he never went in and [00:16:00] worked as an artist. But, he is an artist and he, was very, quite influential when I was growing up. And he used to teach me, we used to draw together, paint together.

my dad was one of those ones that was born with the skill of, just was born with the skill, whereas I loved art, but I couldn't draw like him. He,he will look at a figure and draw the outline and it's perfect. Whereas I loved art. I loved the feeling that it gave me, but I didn't technically have the skills that my dad did.

I know, obviously he was older than me, but, so hewas also quite harsh critic. Like I always say that he'd teach me to sketch, but I wasn't really allowed to look down at the paper because he always believed that you gotta focus on your subject and the paper in your drawing has nothing to do with your, you should be focusing on what you're drawing.

So. I'd be drawing and I'd be looking down too much and he'd take the paper away and tell me to start again. so he sounds really harsh. He wasn't at [00:17:00] all. he wouldn't hurt a fly, but he's just, yeah, he was very big on focusing on your subject. And, my mom and dad are also boring him in Latin dances.

that's actually how they met. My dad was a dance teacher and my mom, came in and they fell in love. And, and then obviously they had four kids. And so we all did Bo and Latin as well. so yeah, my, my background, from the age of, literally from the age of three, I was dancing, and we used to go to a lot of Bo and Latin competitions growing up.

 And so when me and my dad would be drawing. I'd be taking my sketchbook to these competitions and I'd sketch all the dances moving around the floor. I think it was that very early on, of sketching that movement that kind of influenced me going forward. and even though there was a huge gap in that and what I did throughout my career, I [00:18:00] think that really, set something off in me.

And,and also, I was saying to you before my dad, it was really big on color. He,he always spoke about how important color is. And he always said that color is a language that everyone understands. Wherever you are in the world, everyone understands color. so yeah, I think those two things maybe have gotten me to where I am.

Radim: I love that story. I love that story and it literally explains everything I've been seeing in your work for the last 10 plus years. it now, I'm glad I got, you know, you got to tell me exactly what happened because. When you were describing your dad, I mean, you were describing

technically your confidence.

Like I wasn't as good as he was. 

I will never be as good as this.

 Only to realize that the space between what you want to do and the tool. It's gradually gonna get shorter

and shorter because it's like how far do you have to go between this? Because your Annalogy or your,your reminiscing about your dad sort of focus on the subject. [00:19:00] When you think about the best musicians, they don't really look on their neck on the guitar go, I think F is

somewhere down here, or the A is here. Like, you know, they're looking at the audience and performing some obscene things on their guitars. I'm like, that's hours and hours and hours of doing this.

Because yeah, they focus in on the subject

and they are at one with this. And I think it's that thing about how you almost encourage someone and your case it was, it sounded quite harsh, but I think if there was a great way of focusing on what you're trying to do. I, you know, you might, hopefully you don't have any traumas from focusing on the subject, but, 

Kelly: No, not at all. He's, he's a character anyway, but,I always just used to, even watching him draw, it's like he will, honestly, when he's sketching figures, he'll rip the paper because he's, that, he just believes so much in getting the lines correct. And yeah, he's very, I always say actually one day I would love to CoLab with my dad because when he's [00:20:00] finally retired and, yeah.

has the time. I definitely would love to do something like that.

Radim: Do you know why he's never

pursued, career in art?

Kelly: Yes, because he had four children and his,he, he actually was gonna go to Camberwell. He, hehe went to, when he was 18. he, he went to go and have his, I think he even got into Campbell, well, or so was it Campbell? I can't remember. but then his mom, or my grandma fell sick, so he had to stay home.

And then he married my mom and had four children. So, and he just took the life that, you know, was, not the creative one. and, but he does still paint to this day. Like and I have said as soon as he retires, that's when I'm gonna start his business. So I'm already, I've already got ideas.

Kelly: he's always Kelly, just leave me alone.

Radim: so your dad walked into

a,a Latin ballroom and met your mom. we're gonna spend half of the time talking about your dad and your mom today, 

 but, where did it love for music? Like where, [00:21:00] how do you know why he was there? I mean, uh,we kind of know why she was there, because she was, you know, part of

Kelly: that is a goodmy dad, there's pictures of my dad of when he was like eight, nine. He was a boring and Latin dancer. He did it from a very young age. but yeah, I don't actually know

why he got into it. 

Radim: And we used to, kind of host these family dances where yeah, people would come and we'd host and would, the whole family would dance with everyone. And yeah, we did that a lot, which was nice.

 So you were sketching the dancers, the poses, the silhouettes, how did you then marry up with the style? Or how did you develop your style of expressive, figures. Proportions, silhouettes,the curves and everything because it's in my way, obviously. and as, I told you before we started recording, I said, I see this as very a Latin American inspired style.

It's,it's just got everything, the vibrancy, the shapes, the movement. And I kind of wanna find out like, you know, now I know a little [00:22:00] more about you. It's think like, okay,okay, I can join these dots together. But is the development is those hours between you drawing rudimentary sort of dancers and then coming into this with a commercial style, which is so recognizable and so expressive.

So how do we trace it, from start to now?

Kelly: so it's funny as well, 'cause growing up as well, I did a lot of sport. I was a gymnast and I was a gymnastic coach for a little while as well. my uncle was very big into sport. so, so I also grew up with that as my, yeah, childhood really. And then I got into kind of my teenage years and I got into, like commercial dancing as well.

Kelly: and then through art college, I had this weird, I, I basically wanted to become a dancer. That was what I wanted to be. And then I went to art school, and back then it wasn't, it really was not cool to be into, I, I did like hip hop, break dancing, all of that. [00:23:00] But back then, for some reason it was, it, I dunno, it's like that indie time where it was all about like indie music and what, and I actually, throughout art college, I kept it a secret that I did break dance and hip hop and all of that because it just, at the time didn't seem that cool.

and so I felt like I had to just choose one or the other. And I chose the art path, because I,I, and I closed that door, really. I,I still carried on for a few years dancing. but I decided, I was like, no, I'm gonna close that door and go into art. And so I think there was always a part of me that.

 I felt I missed out, and I've always wondered what my life would be if I actually went on to be a dancer. and so I think a really important thing for me to do when I was developing was to connect those two worlds. And actually when I started, I, I actually, when I left uni, I ended up going into print design.

So I did a lot of print design for clothing, like apparel, footwear. [00:24:00] and even when I was working in apparel, there was a connection to dance and music. I did a lot of, print design for yeah, different, kind of, singers and whatever. But, so there was that kind of link there. And also when I worked in footwear there, there was the link to dancers and things like that and performing so.

When I was doing that, when I was the print designer, I always had this idea. I knew that I wanted to be my own artist and somehow do my own thing. So whilst I was doing that, I had to develop my style and try to try and figure out how to piece all this together and do something that felt right to me.

So I used to, I started out actually by, kind of sketching. I started very early sketching. I know this sounds really weird, but I would go to gyms and kind of sketch a little bit. And also my friends, they were all dancers and I used to go to their rehearsals and sit in their rehearsals and sketch them [00:25:00] dancing.

So that was kind of my connection to that world a little bit. I knew that world and it, I felt really comfortable in it, and I just. had to basically try and find a way to, yeah. to connect it and figure out a style that would work with it. so yeah, and I also did, when I was at uni, I did fashion illustration.

so, and that is all about exaggerating forms and, you know, it is, the forms are always exaggerated in some sense. So yeah, it was kind of an amalgamation of all of that put together. 

Radim: this is amazing because you said I had to choose one, I had to go between either the one or the other, and then you kind of suddenly the out sort of sidelines what, you know, with people doing what you, what did secretly. And it was secret, the story of a secret breakdown.

 It's just like,don't tell anyone, you know, there's indie kids, but I'm a break dancer.

Kelly: I know when I look back I'm like, that's so, so odd. 'cause now, nowadays, like with the way the world is, that would've [00:26:00] been amazing. but it just shows how different our world is now 'cause Yeah. Just 

Radim: Yeah, 

Kelly: different world.

Radim: I think you're describing a time where like being one thing, and I remember people say, do one thing and do it well. It's that kind of works. But what really amazes me, there was one strong advocate, which I will name who I is, and it's do one thing and do it well. And I'm like, you do likeseven different things, but you're talking about you do seven things, you do them fairly well.

But

Kelly: Oh, I wish I could be like that. I'm, I get too bored. I wish I had that brain. I wish I could do one thing for the rest of my life and become the best at it, but I just, I get too bored.

Radim: I'm writing a book or daring forever. Which is, partially based on this podcast season and looking into ways of how we, for example, decode things. Like,you know, the lack of confidence and how we do stuff and why some of us are looking for more, colorful life.

More, more varied life, more intricate life rather than some people just keep it straight and it actually comes down to [00:27:00] genetics. You know, some people are just good at one thing and they stick with it, 

Kelly: I wonder that in everyday life, like. You know, even when it comes to relationships and like people that have been together for, and I, I just look at things and I'm like, how do people do that? It is, it must be genetic and it must be to do with our brains, and I'm looking forward to reading your book, so,

Radim: it also comes to understanding of the psychology and general philosophy. Like hhow our childhoods really create the,foundation for who we are, who we become.

And some people had, similar childhoods to yours and they were like, you know, you know what? I'm gonna go into finance. This is gonna be good. I'm

gonna be in insurance. I don't need more Latin music in my life, or whatever. apparently we have different size of do and receptors, so some people are more motivated, some people are less motivated. Happiness is 50% genetic. You know, some people are just not happy. Just, you know, just not as jolly as some others. But we have this societal. Measure of understanding, okay, happiness should look like this, and are you happy as this? You know, or are you as

creative as this? Whereas what you describing here so beautifully, so far, it's just like,look, [00:28:00] you just became your person who wanted to be your own artist.

And I'm like, this is what I'm doing. And to be honest, I think the Secret Break dancer, sir, is a great story. But from what I'm seeing, selfishly can say that, you know, it's great that you've gone into visual art because it's fantastic. it's been like such a beautiful, unique way of expressing yourself that has, made so many brands and so many projects, so much more colorful and so much more jollier to look at 

 So

let's put some more color into your sketches, because I'm

sensing that so far, obviously it was,it was a, you know, fashion illustration.

You've been sort of trying to find yourself, and I wanna know how much patience did you have till you realized that you finally hit in on something that's unique to your own. And then you can say, I'm gonna fly my own flag, tall and proud.

Kelly: Mm.it did take a while because, like I said, I was working behind closed doors when I was working for other people. there were, there was literally two years where I was just working and trying things and it just wasn't clicking at all. and then [00:29:00] I'd say like in, at the end of that two years, just something started to click and I was slowly putting my workout into the world.

Kelly: Literally with no likes, but I was just, I don't know. There was something that I weirdly just, I knew something was there and I guess I just had this blind faith that I just, if you, if I just kept doing it, kept putting it out, that something would hit. And it did in the end. Eventually, I, yeah, I got my first job, which was with, Nike.

 So,

Radim: what was that feeling of validation that, you spend time developing and 10 years ago, am I safe to say that the world was slightly more patient, less noisy, but I don't think he was like, we already, we were all on Instagram. 

Kelly: but I, it has changed. I think the, I think if you are joining Instagram social media now, it is, it's harder in some ways. Ah, I say that, but depends what your output is. Now it's much more, video and,[00:30:00] short form. So yeah, it just depends what your process 

is, I guess.

Radim: I would say I think you need to have a real,real pot of gold now to really stand out because

 somebody somewhere said the other day, the craft has gone so much better. what? Some, I think a lot of people have go up and realize they can do really good work or push themselves to do better work.

You know, that distance

between the paper and themselves or the tool, because I think the craft in all areas have gone incredible. But I think it was sacrificed in a way of expression, like how unique some of the stuff is because. Lots of people and we're talking about it, Instagram from 10, 15 years ago, it was like, it was easy to jump on a hashtag and be another off, you know, like be 

part of something creative or like,people are liking must stuff because they're also like 25 or 30 other people doing the same. But finding that uniqueness, which is so hard to now find because everything's [00:31:00] remixed of something. Everything's influenced by

something. Like how do people do it? Because you gave yourself two years, which can seem like a lifetime in 2026.

Kelly: Even now, I mean, it wasn't just two years. It was,it was ' cause I, that's when I decided I was, I wanted to be on my own. But before that, it was still eight years of me working for other people, knowing that I wanted to do my own. I just didn't have the, I didn't have the money and I didn't have the confidence and I hadn't figured out really my, style.

I had my style, but I just hadn't figured it out completely yet. So it was a long, I always say like, when I left Uni, I didn't go out on my own until I was about 29. So it was like nine. Eight, nine years of just Yeah. Working behind. Yeah. The 

Radim: When you think,when you think about it, some people think they need to retire 29 these days. It's like, do

one thing and do it really well. What is it? 

Kelly: at 29?

Radim: [00:32:00] no, but you know, like you see some people like, I want to get to the fine and finishing line as fast as possible. It's like, why?

Kelly: No, I'd get, again, I'd get so bored if I had to stop working. I, some people that's their, and, and you know, if they can get on them, but my brain wouldn't allow it. I,I think I'll be, I'll be trying to start a new business when I'm on my deathbed. I just, I think I just, I'm, I say that now as a young star. I dunno what I'll be like when I'm 

Radim: No, II think again, people have different motivation and it comes from environmental inputs, their backgrounds, their traumas, their childhoods, because ultimately it's an external validation . 

 what I want to get to now is you start, you got your commission with Nike, and it just looks like the confetti cannon just exploded and you

got commissions. You started working across different formats, different exhibitions, all of that stuff. If you can remember, what did it feel like when you realized, you know what, I put my money on 32 black, and it worked actually, in your case, you put your money on [00:33:00] whatever number and all the colors.

Kelly: there was a time I did, I think, 'cause I struggled so long with confidence. there was a time I remember I, I,thinking to myself, gosh, thi this feels really good. it feel, it felt so good to have something that you'd worked on. Not, I don't think it was even that night. I think my whole life I had wanted to be a creative, an artist and, yeah, to get validation from someone that isn't yourself.

'cause you couldn't, you can beat yourself up as much as you like. and you have to as an artist and youyou have to be your own fan club. but to have someone outside want your work next to their brand name, that, that's another level of, That's another feeling. And I, and it's something that we chase, we go on chasing, and it's just an amazing feeling.

That's why we do it. That's why we do this freelance work. 'cause it's, you know, when someone, when I do [00:34:00] a piece of artwork and someone wants to buy that, that alone, again, that's that feeling of like validation that someone else sees what I see. with it the way I have felt it in my body.

Like I've,I've felt that feeling to create and make this piece, but then to have another human connect with it is just, yeah, it's ama it's amazing and that's why we keep doing it. And 'cause that's a nice, I guess it's a human connection thing for me as well. It's like someone else feels what I feel. And they felt what I'm trying to get across.

That's what I find really beautiful. And and you know, when I always say like, when someone buys a piece of your work and puts it in their home, when people have artwork in their home, it almost becomes part of their DNA. It becomes, I have pieces in my home that the more they're in my home, the more I fall in love [00:35:00] with them because they're just part of me now.

They're that they are part of my personality and I, so it's that connection to that artist that I love. And I,me and my partner, we are constantly looking for new pieces of work and whether it's ceramics or paintings, just something to, I guess, yeah, that says that, that speaks our way of seeing the world, I guess.

Radim: I mean, if there was a, a beautifully eloquent artist statement, that was it. 

Radim: it's, 

Kelly: many coffees this morning.

Radim: no,no. I think what you said it with no hesitation is how it makes you feel and how you appreciate with somebody almost reciprocates that feeling because.

 it really goes into the most beautiful ways of telling stories. And someone receives those stories exactly as you intended.

Kelly: yeah, it's nice 'cause like when I am, I am the biggest fan to a lot of, artists. And when they post something like, I, I remember, [00:36:00] someone posted something the other day, an artist I love, and and they literally just posted an ink drawing and I just, I connected so much with it.

I was like, it almost like it's like they, it is like he get, he gets me. So it is just, and it is so weird. He doesn't know me. I'm like, he gets me and he gets my vision of the world and. Because I love that piece so much and it's just, yeah, I love it. I love that's connected us, even though he has no idea who I am.

Radim: what you just said made me actually think of the stuff that you have. Artists, musicians, writers, authors, they produce something and people go like, I wasn't expecting that. And I'm thinking, what were you expecting? Are you a mind reader? Because it's like that person does something. At that moment in time when that's true to them, and you've got

almost time to either tune into it or not be on the same path because that expectation, it's just like when you are [00:37:00] so like wholesomely into that journey, you appreciate every twist and turn and every surprise.

Whereas if you're expecting something for yourself to validate,

other person can't give it to you, can they?

Kelly: Yeah, that's actually why I always love seeing artists and creatives pivot a little bit and,and start, I love it when someone shows me something new. Like,I love seeing an artist who's got their style, who's got their thing, and randomly they come out with something so different and I'm like, do you know what?

Good on you? Even though you will not get the validation that you want online right away, I just know that I am there fangirling you on because I love it. I, II find it so empowering as another creative to see another creative go, do you know what? Fuck this. I'm gonna go and develop and I'm gonna try and I'm gonna keep moving.

 So yeah, I'm there. Fangirling you on.

Radim: [00:38:00] so this is interesting 'cause I was gonna ask you about the world of brands and what does it mean to be associated with certain brands and potentially being limited by limited by your brilliance in a way.

 what I wanna know is how would you have said that your style has been your biggest asset, but has it ever been a negative to the fact that you can't be everywhere with everyone at all times?

Kelly: yes and no. I,I wouldn't say a negative because, I guess that's on my cho choices, I guess, of who I've worked for and not, and you are right. Like you can't be everywhere at once. and II wouldn't want to be for one. I think it is important in this capitalist, like in this commercial world as an illustrator and artist, to have something that connects you to I guess your style because, or you have to have some sort of style to start with, because you are [00:39:00] easier to find.

It's like I always say to, um,people always ask, how do you get work with different, these different brands? And I think it's really important to know what the way to start is knowing what interests you. And for me, what interests me and has always interested in me is. Everything, sport, movement, kind of that world.

So I've always linked my work to that, which for someone who works in sport, for instance, they'll go, we need a female artist, we need someone who works in sport and we need someone who does whatever. and so it's easy for then brands to come and look and say, oh, Kelly Sport theme. Like, it almost packages it up for these brands ready to go.

 And I know that sounds, again, very like maybe just business and not so much creative, but as if I guess younger people want to get into that world, I think [00:40:00] it's much easier if you start from the very core, what is it that you really enjoy and really believe in? Start from there, and work around that.

And then that almost becomes your. And it's much easier for brands to find you and, yeah.

Radim: Yeah, I, I think that makes perfect sense. I'm looking at your Rafa collaboration 

 as it's on your website, and I spoke to Luke Carson, David, cousin's son, how they made their collaboration happen with Rafa and obviously what's gone

into it. how did that collaboration go how,how did you put it together?

Because I always say that cycling and cycling audience is. Such a tricky target audience because

everyone's got opinion. Not everything is the same. 

when I see your capsule collection, it just seems absolutely amazing and it's this perfect way of sort of marrying those two words together. Because as you said, we need female, we need sports, we need illustrator, we need artist. That's where you happen to be. how did that go for you, like in terms of the validation of the [00:41:00] style of free reign?

Like what went to it?

Kelly: It was funny 'cause um,this was such a full circle moment when I was younger. I started a, girls City cycle crew. Sounds so funny when I say it now, I, when I say that, it basically, I loved riding my bike around the city and, um, I loved my riding my bike around the city with my friends. So I decided to start a Girl city cycle group and, to the point where I would literally ride up to a girl on a bike and be like, 

Do you wanna join our little group? And that, and we just became this little group and we'd go and like little cycling. Trips around the city. Literally that was all it was. It kind of became this little community. we even did like little Halloween rides and things like that. and so I had that for a few years and I'm still actually friends with a lot of the girls in from that little group.

 And then, um,and in one of the pictures we took, I was actually wearing my favorite Raffa tea. So I was always a massive fan of Raffa. I love everything [00:42:00] that they put out. They're just genius. And then a few years ago, my, my agent was like, we were kind of speaking and were like, should we reach out to them?

and then he did and they immediately wrote back and were like, yeah, we, she's actually. It's been on our, radar for a while, and actually something's come up the Women's 100. and that's how it kind of came together. and just working with them, they're just, honestly, they're honestly the nicest team.

 I can't say it. They are one of the nicest teams I've ever worked for. really? Just lovely. Yeah. they've got a great feeling in their, head office. It's lovely. Yeah.

Radim: you mentioned just a second ago that you are always looking to keep moving how you develop, like obviously what is next? what is your style of work? Do you have a studio where you know, look into new ideas? How do you experiment? What is your scrapbook? You know, how you influenced by the art on your walls? How do you keep moving?

Kelly: I, so a while [00:43:00] ago I, basically, I told myself to do a sketch, at least one sketch a day, but then that became really hard. So I was like, look, just when you get that fire feeling, 'cause you know, we,we all get, it comes rarely, but when it does, you just gotta capture it.

So I make sure when I get that feeling, I just. Get out a piece of like,a new bit of material. So like at the moment I am on oils. I've,I've told myself for years I want to learn oils, so now I'm actually doing a course in oils. and that's right now is my next medium. But I love trying, I think trying different mediums.

I, I work with charcoal, paint, oil, any, anything that, for me feels like something I love textures. and yeah, for me developing is just sitting down and just getting a piece of something, whatever that is, whether it's paper, collage, and trying different mediums. I find experimenting with mediums the [00:44:00] most exciting thing.

so I guess that's how I develop. I just, trying new things all the time.

Radim: I think that makes sense when I see your work, some of the stuff which still looks, you know, as a digital illustration, some of the stuff is painted shop fronts. And it works with your brain going, you know, I need to shake it up. I need differences. You know, 

Kelly: Yeah. 

Radim: experiences.

Kelly: But it's funny how it then connects back together. It, does all connect. Because for instance, I was doing these charcoals, and then I started doing these like charcoal birds because I was kind of relating it to a project. so then I, I,I went through literally two months every day of doing these charcoal birds.

I just became obsessed. and then I took those birds into my, graphic work and they ended up on a shop front in Paris, so it does, and I would never have done that. Just by drawing it the way I usually draw, I would never have drawn those birds. but because I was just became obsessed, [00:45:00] then that went back into my work.

 So I think it's just that layering and ripping up and trying something new and then putting it into your other work and that, yeah, mixed media I think is really fun.

Radim: I think I've spotted your birds on, on your website, and they're incredible.

Kelly: Yeah.

Radim: I think I know exactly which ones they are 

and they look fantastic because they are still you, but they stand out so much. as we're looking towards the future, obviously The subject of AI comes up in so many conversations, so many articles, and I kind of feel like it's almost, it would be a redundant question to ask you about it, because what you do very hardly ever touches the element of digitally in a way like you're an expression of a person who is, you know, longing for finding ways of like how to tell those stories and how to make them colorful and very human in a way as well. But how do you see your career, and I know this might be a slightly [00:46:00] sort of a big and sort of heavy question, but like, how do you see what you do, that you can potentially find new pockets of excitement, new ways of expressing yourself? Because we do have more tools. We have more ways of production.

We have 

more ways of making things. With your

theme of keeping moving, like howhow do you visualize the next half a decade of your career?

Kelly: I'm an enthusiast. I, II love learning about new things, and I'm also a realist. I absolutely know AI is here and it's not going anywhere. I don't know how I will use it moving forward. I've absolutely used it for mockups and things like that, but for instance, I am launching my, I don't like talking about this because it's very behind the scenes at the moment, but, I, I'm working on my own, kind of brand on, something else is going on.

And there's one bit where,I wanted to show this product, and I, and [00:47:00] I'm working with a 3D artist to, kind of animate it and create this work, and I was trying to explain how I wanted it exactly. Then someone was like, oh, why don't you put it into Mid Journey? And I was like, oh, what?

How do I even do that? Put it into Mid Journey? And it came up with what I wanted, obviously really badly. 'cause I'd just barely done it. And so there was that, I was then, you know, up against what we are all gonna go through is like human V versus this. and I guess I've got this tool that does it, but right now for me, I don't want that as my output.

I wanna work with this amazing artist I love his work. so right now what I feel is even though AI's there and that tool is there for me to use, I, there's something missing in that for me right now. and I guess what is missing in [00:48:00] that is that interaction I'll have with another human and I guess.

 Yes, AI can do it for me very easily, but then maybe something will be missed. and something, you know, maybe me and this guy will come up with something and it will just be a real mistake. And we are like, actually that mistake's really nice. We like that. and I think that's something that ai, even though AI has a lot of mistakes, I love the fuck ups and the, you know, how we mess things up and we're like, oh actually I really like that.

let's try that again. And yeah, I dunno. I guess I'm like every other artist, it, we know it's here, we know it. we are walking into this world. We can't ignore it. And I guess I think over the years we'll just have to figure it out, figure out how we use it. I, for one, I'm not gonna judge anyone for anything that I think the judgment in any way is.

I think it's good to have judgments and I think, Yeah. I think we all just need to figure it out slowly together. again, [00:49:00] maybe I'm wrong in that, but I do, I I think it's something that no one really knows the answer to. You can tell by how I'm answering, that I'm still figuring it all out. II don't know.

But the one thing I do think people are yearning for is human connection. I don't think that will ever go, I think we are, like you say, we graphing tribes. I think that we used to be in tribes and I think that, that's just something really important that we all yearn for.

Radim: I think it really shows onto brands, like who do you want to be and how do you wanna conduct, you know, your audience. Like how do you wanna obviously run your business and how you wanna do it. Because I've seen something on a TV the other day, which was like a TV art for some car, 

 I've never heard of the brand before. And it was so blatantly AI and not the good kind. It was like there were sheep running through other sheep on the tv. I'm thinking, 

Kelly: So it's very odd. It's very odd. I do find it strange, like when I was doing a talk,and they had, [00:50:00] I won't say who it was, but they had, an AI company there talking to a,a room of a thousand creatives. And, it was interesting 'cause he was like, you know, come on, you know, when you've got that fire and you can create.

And he had 20 different, chair designs behind him, just floating midair, you know, and I was just sat there and I was like, oh, that's lovely. That's amazing. But there was something not there. I don't know. I just, I was like, yeah, okay. I can create everything in the world. But I guess it's like,the thing I always say about production, like people always say to me, oh, you should do this and you should do that, and you should make this and make that.

And I'm make, I'm building something at the moment. And production and making something is more difficult than design. Like you can make and design anything, but getting it from that, from sketch to actual product that you are selling is hard work. And there are so many different samples. And making it and actually feeling it and [00:51:00] yeah, a lot can go wrong, which it has already.

And I'm spending, I'm like just so much money on wrong samples. 

Radim: But that's the beauty of

discovery when you said, people tell me I should do this and I should do that and I should do this, it was like when people tell you what you should be doing, they should be fucking off, like doing something, whatever they need to be doing.

 Because ultimately it's between you and the thing because you live in the story, you're expressing it and you've got your own views.

I mean, it's nice to ask for validation and maybe ask for second opinion, but what you describe is almost like, and in this sort of semi weird parallel way, like you, you describing your own

Kelly: view compared to, let's say the view of ai. Like the ai I think is like a good way of to seeing a mock up or good like a,

Radim: what we used to sort of butcher together in Photoshop.

okay, this is what this

Kelly: Yeah. I mean, I think for that a absolutely, it's definitely, I think in terms of mocking up and getting your, like visuals, you know. In an easier way. Like we were kind of doing that before, as you say, in photo, the way I used to do my specs was [00:52:00] in Photoshop I'd get a shutter stock image and work with that.

But, so it's that, basically it's just an easier way to get to your visual. So maybe in that way we'll get to things, quicker and we'll have the tools, I guess, to I guess visualize it better. But it's what happens after that, I guess. But

Radim: Absolutely. And I mean, what you describe and brings me back to a quote by, a previous guest called Robert Hodgen who said, things that take no effort are hard to value. And when you think about it,

what you do takes an effort and it's easy to value because it's just, you can tell how much gram's gone into it and what you do.

Kelly: I.

Radim: Kelly, I, I. Love putting more color and joining the dots into your story, because as I said, I've, known about you and your work for pretty much as long as you've been out there doing your stuff. But I really enjoyed the conversation because there's some people who worry about their futures. I, I will never worry about yours because you're on the

right path. you keep moving and keep searching what might be next. And [00:53:00] yeah, your corner of the internet, corner of the world is colorful and it's so joyful. That's, we're lucky to have you. So thank you.

Kelly: Thank you so much. Thanks for having me.

Radim: You're welcome.

 Thank you for listening to this episode of Daring Creativity Podcast I'd love to know your thoughts questions and suggestions So please get in touch via the email in the show notes or social channels This episode was produced and presented by me Rad Malid The audio production was done by Neil Mackay from 7 million Bucks Podcast Thank you and I hope to see you on the next episode [00:54:00]