Lauren Hartstone is a Creative Director and Partner at Sibling Rivalry, where she's spent the past decade mastering the art of fusing brand architecture with compelling storytelling. From creating iconic title sequences at Imaginary Forces to revolutionizing sports graphics, her journey reveals how creative fearlessness and systematic thinking can transform entire industries.

Growing up with a market research executive father and artist mother, Lauren developed an understanding of both human behavior and visual expression. Her obsession with David Fincher's Se7en title sequence led her to Imaginary Forces for five transformative years. At Gretel, she experienced a humbling moment of having to step back and learn systematic branding. Becoming a mother of two fundamentally shifted her leadership approach—embracing merged work-life roles rather than separation.

Now revolutionising sports graphics, Lauren's admission of knowing nothing about the sector became her greatest asset. Her philosophy centers on finding stories that already exist, working smarter as a leader, and maintaining excitement about possibility even after decades in the industry.

Key moments: 

• Merge branding with storytelling: The most powerful work happens when systematic brand thinking meets emotional narrative craft—they're not separate disciplines but symbiotic forces that strengthen each other
• The story is usually already there: Stop searching for manufactured insights and bigger concepts outside—the most authentic and resonant stories often exist within the brand, the people, or the culture you're trying to represent
• Strategic fearlessness beats safe permanence: Brands hold back from bold creative choices because they fear permanence, but campaigns are ephemeral—there's more power in being willing to take expressive risks that can evolve over time
• Fresh perspective is your superpower: Not knowing a sector intimately isn't a weakness—it's an opportunity to bring new eyes, question conventions, and offer what you do best without being constrained by industry dogma
• Leadership shifts from hours to impact: As you grow into creative leadership, especially as a parent, your value transforms from volume and hours worked to vision, clarity, and the ability to work smarter and faster
• Keep work and life merged, not separated: The stress of maintaining rigid boundaries between creative passion and family responsibilities can be replaced by flexible integration—showing your children what creative work looks like teaches possibility
• Stay excited about where things could go: After decades in the industry, maintaining genuine enthusiasm for "there's so many places this could go" at the start of each project keeps creativity alive and prevents complacency
• Find where you feel your best self: Long-term creative fulfilment requires finding the team, the environment, and the work that allows you to stretch, learn, feel confident, and be authentically yourself.

Daring Forever. Podcast with Radim Malinic

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[00:00:00] 

Lauren: It's changed everything. It's changed everything about how I work. So yes, there's the feeling of curiosity and seeing life in a completely different way. You know, they ask me all kinds of questions that are funny and sad and weird and I love it and it makes me look at everything differently. So there's that.

Lauren:  there's also just the phases of your life where I told you when I was IAF and, and at Greta, even, at that moment, you work, you know, all hours. And I didn't care what I was missing. Like that's all I did and I was totally happy to do it. It but then you have these kids and suddenly. You know, you have to, you have personal responsibilities that you just, [00:01:00] you they demand of you. 

Welcome to the Daring Creativity Podcast, a show about daring to forever explore creativity that isn't about chasing shiny perfection. It's about showing up with all your doubts and imperfections and making them count. It's about becoming more of who you already are. My name is Radim Malinic I'm a designer, author, and eternally curious human being.

 I am talking to a broad range of guests who share their stories of small actions that sparked lifetime discoveries, taking one step towards the thing that made them feel most alive. 

 Let me begin this episode with a question. Are you ready to discover what happens when you dare to create? 

Radim: Today I'm speaking with Lauren Hartstone, [00:02:00] creative Director and partner at Sibling Rivalry. She discovered that her real passion lies at the intersection of systematic brown thinking and emotional storytelling. In this conversation, Lauren discusses how becoming a mother fundamentally shift heavy on creativity work and leadership.

 Why admitting you know nothing about a sector can be your greatest creative asset, and how the best stories usually exist inside what you're trying to represent. We talked about early days of NTV, creating title sequences and creative fearlessness.

We also talked about staying excited about many places her work could go. That keeps her creativity alive even after decades in the industry. It's my pleasure to share with you my conversation with Lauren Hartstone. 

Hey, Lauren, it's great to have you here. How are you doing today?

Lauren: Good. Thanks for having me.

Radim: You're most welcome. I'm excited to talk about storytelling brands, people, [00:03:00] sports, creativity. for those who may have not heard of Lauren Hartstone or sibling rivalry, how would you introduce yourself? Who are you? What'd you do?

Lauren: I am a designer. I'm a creative director and I'm a partner at Sibling Rivalry. I am also a mom of two.

Radim: I know that your primary, Passion in life is storytelling, 

Where did the passion for storytelling come to your life 

Lauren: I don't know exactly where it came from. I've always been interested in storytelling, in art and design. my family's pretty creative. my mother's, was interested in painting. she ended up going into education, but she studied art. My brother's a musician.

Lauren: he actually, studied sociology. My dad studied sociology, they are into human behavior and culture. So it's actually not that weird that I got into design and, storytelling and creativity.

Radim: I can just imagine the, discussions around a dinner

table. they don't sound ordinary at all. [00:04:00] Um, that's really interesting. Where did you grow up,

Lauren: Connecticut? 

it's not interesting at all.

Radim: Well, I think your parents, your brother, I think made up for it to make the place a little bit more interesting. mom, your mom's painting, what was it? Hobby? was it profession? How, what did you do?

Lauren: Hobby. And she'd kill, she'll kill me when she hears this, right? Because she thinks she's a terrible painter. But I love that she painted. and she came back to it later in life. Uh, my grandfather also painted later in life. I stole some of my mom's sketchbooks. I don't know. I loved being, surrounded by people who.

Love art. And my brother actually was really good at art as well, so,

 so you said your dad and your brother studied sociology. I would like to believe there were some conversations about, the human nature, how we behave, how we operate. would you say the nature of storytelling and a sort of intrigue for humans came from that time?

Yeah. I think that I felt like I was going the other way because I was getting [00:05:00] into art, which is hilarious because. Creative comes from insight, right? So it's all, it all came full circle. I, but I thought I was departing ' cause my brother was following in my father's footsteps by going into sociology my dad owned a market research company they were super analytical and talked forever about all kinds of behavior.

And if you talk, any conversation with my dad and my brother will last a really long time. So I thought I was going into something different. And then of course I figured out that what I was doing was actually the next step after what they were doing. And so now I actually use them all the time for help.

Lauren: which is hilarious.

Radim: Yeah. It's interesting when you said, I was thinking I was going the other way because ultimately we all go in the same way. We

 just find ourselves in a different parallels. So when you thought you were rebelliously going in the other way, not that you said rebelliously, but

 feeling guilty about it, 

what did you study, what you do? What was your

[00:06:00] draw into? Visual storytelling per se.

Lauren: So I started in like drawing and painting because that's what I knew. And I, I don't think that certainly motion was not really that big of a thing then. but I was studying fine art. I went to Mica, Maryland Institute, college of Art over a summer program when I was in high school. I loved it.

Lauren: and then I decided I wanted to, I, I decided I wanted to pursue it. I think I got really into it there, and my parents were really supportive, but they did say I couldn't go to like an art school, just an art school. I had to go to a university and study art at a university so that I could also study academics and make that a big part of my education.

And I. While admittedly was a little frustrated by that, I think that was the right call. So I also studied English Lit and I went to Washington University in St. Louis and I studied, visual communications in English.

Radim: [00:07:00] It's interesting debates with parents. It comes up with a lot on this podcast especially. Our generation when the parents are still on the lookout of like, if you wanna do this, maybe you should do it right. You know, it feels like maybe we're the last generation that needed an approval from our parents to do what we wanna do because I don't think our children, I think they'll just do whatever they wanna do.

Lauren: Oh. I don't think they're gonna listen to anything I say absolutely anything. But, it's funny, I was talking about that last night. I don't think they, they definitely will not. But, um, at the time, I don't know, I, I think I was a little frustrated by it, but I, I do think that it was. The right decision. I think that the more you work in this career, the more important it is to be able to be articulate and to present and to speak with clients, of all different industries.

And to be able to do that, I think to have, you know, have studied a lot of different things. I think that that was really [00:08:00] helpful. but they were very encouraging to do something I loved and, and I love what I do and I, I think that that's a pretty rare thing.

Radim: I'm glad you still say I love what I do. Sometimes we fall out of love because these things get really difficult and tricky. But what I wanna know as a student, what were you surrounded by? what was the sort of influences that kept you on track at uni and inspired?

Lauren: I was surrounded by a lot of different things. You know, I had friends that were actually, most, most of my friends were not in the art school, so. I don't know. My friends studied poly sci and Spanish and English and all kinds of things. So I was immersed in art in the way that I, you know, all kids were and that they, you know, we slept in studio.

We worked so hard, but my closest friends were not in the art school. And I really, it's, it actually goes back to what my parents were saying. I think I really enjoyed just being [00:09:00] around lots of different kinds of people.

Radim: I think so far it really feels like you are destined to do what you do now because you do stuff for so many different audiences, for so many different brands, people or clients, and it's. I would say it's already so easy to actually join those dots and thinking, would that make sense? Because you get the creative types hanging out with the creative types

somewhere, sometimes and some other place, and they're like, I'm gonna be just a creative because of my expression of my soul. But you come in from a family that, there's a parent who's got market research company

 in my opinion, that broadens the lens because it already, I think, prepares you for what's coming next. So that's very interesting. I mean, at least that's how I see it so far. So, how did you then go from uni into, into work basically, because what you do now, it makes perfect sense that the world of brand meets storytelling. But. It was initially two different companies, one [00:10:00] for the brand and one for storytelling that influenced your journey where you are now. What did you do after uni?

Lauren: The first thing I did was I went to MTV actually, actually VH one was my first internship. I was in college and I got there through an alumni. so I was a junior in college. I went to VH one and it was amazing. I, it was probably one of the best experiences of my life. I was studying in the off air, print department and VH one was super small.

Lauren: it was a really exciting place to be at this time. and I walked across the hall and I met the on air team and I was like, what's going on in this dark room? And everyone has headphones on and I love it. And they were like, animating stuff and I was so excited. And my college did not teach animation or anything like this, so.

I got really into it. I made some friends over there. They sent me a copy of After Effects, which I gotta tell you, I learned very mildly. I've [00:11:00] still like never really animated, but, but I got really interested in motion. I came back to college after that internship and senior year I said, okay, I wanna do motion.

And they said, that's great. You're gonna have to be on your own in this 'cause we don't teach it, so good luck. So I started animating a little bit in flash, which is funny now. and I just immersed myself in motion. I was obsessed with title sequences and I was like, one day I'm gonna work at Imaginary Forces and that, that's what I wanted to do.

So I went back to New York after I graduated. I think I was two. Nervous maybe to contact if FI don't, I don't know if I did. But what I did do is I went right back to MTV. They had, I don't know, like a six month gig for me. So I went in there, did some work for them, and then I kind of quickly went over to [00:12:00] the agency studio side and I'm very glad I did that.

I went over to a company called Stardust. I was there for a little bit, then loyal Casper, and then I found my way to Imaginary Forces and I was there for five years. And that was sort of like my first moment where I was like, I am exactly where I wanna be doing exactly what I wanna do.

And it was like real happiness.

Radim: I mean, wow. this escalated quickly

 you go an internship, you get to see people do it and stuff, and all of a sudden, like, you know, that you wanna work for imaginary forces. I'm, I'm still want to find, I mean, again, on what I normally do on this podcast, I take it always one step back because why did you choose, internship at MTV 

why did you choose to do this? Because so far. It's hanging out with people who are not so creative and I'll be hanging out with people that, you know, doing market research. And then we've got MTV. So how did you make that call to go there?

Because [00:13:00] it clearly, I would like to believe, changed what you do

 and showed, showed you the way right.

Lauren: music was a huge part of my life. my brother was a musician, so his band used to practice in our basement and I was just always around it, so I went to shows every weekend. I just loved, I loved music, when I was in college, I went to Central St. Martin's, for a summer program, and I partially did that 'cause I loved britpop.

Like I just wanted to be around music. So, I mean, that sounds ridiculous now that I'm saying that out loud. But, yeah, I, I wanted to be in music, so I thought that, and it, so it was the perfect opportunity to be working around music and doing design.

Radim: did you know at that time what you wanted to make? Because being from the same generation, I guess the idea of the thing, the subject, you know, the process was more of a draw rather than a specific piece of work that you would go, oh, this is amazing.

I want to be as good as this, or I wanna [00:14:00] create that. Did you have anything of that type in your life? Did you be going like, this is my target, or this is my sort of destination? No. Destination number one.

Lauren: Yeah, I wanted to make seven. who didn't,

Radim: Okay, now, now it begins to make sense. So 

 do you remember, when you saw the title sequence. for the first time, how you felt?

Lauren: Yeah. I was in college and I saw it and I thought it was the best thing I've ever seen. And I loved David Fincher and I loved Imaginary Forces, and I was like, that was it. That's what I wanted to be doing. And a lot of people have careers that are these like.

Very wey lines. And mine has not been that at all, which sometimes I find concerning because I haven't been like, oh, let me try that and let me try that. I've been on this very kind of straight path of like, this is what I wanna do, and then I, I keep going. [00:15:00] but I just knew that that's what I wanted. 

I just, I was so obsessed with the idea of motion and time and sound and how they interacted, and it was just not really a thing then. I mean, it was, obviously it was a little bit because seven was out there, but it wasn't like motion was being like taught all over the place. Right. And I did this, um, title sequence when I was at school.

I just was doing whatever I could to learn motion, so I did it in flash and someone over, I guess, A, um, teacher over in the film school, at my college saw it and he came over and he came and talked to me and I don't know, it was like a, I just had this great conversation with him. I didn't even know we had film at my college and I didn't really know that I wanted to study film, if that makes sense.

'cause it felt to me like something totally different. Of course now I know it's not, but, I don't know. It was amazing. And so talking with him kind of [00:16:00] opened it up for me. so yeah, I really went for it.

Radim: I think there was something. Quite rebellious about Flash. It was like, when I think about it from a, from a creative perspective, like how it was used some 20 years ago, it was like, it was almost like, do you wanna see some clever shit?

Yeah, okay, here's Flash, let's do it. You know, like it's just, it was, it was a medium of like show how to take things to the edge and then beyond, like actually what can you do with Flash with a tool that potentially wasn't even sort of intended for such things.

Lauren: You could like, I think it was called like shape tween or something. I don't know. You could morph shapes and I thought that was so cool. 

no, but when I graduated, I, so I was animating in Flash slightly and then I was designing in cork. And for some reason Photoshop wasn't really a big thing taught in my school either.

 I designed in Cork. I mean, we learned letter pressing. It was all very like, kind of traditional. And I will never forget when I, I graduated and I was at, I [00:17:00] think Stardust was sort of like my first job job. And I was working with PJ Richardson, who you actually interviewed, right.

 And he was like, he was my mentor there, took me under his wing and taught me Photoshop and it was awesome. And I'll never forget, I swear it was like three in the morning and he was like, oh my God, what are you doing, Lauren? He was just like, just teaching me things. It was great.

Radim: what's really amazing that actually now I managed to really join your dots of like why imaginary forces ' cause he was seven. ' cause it was that title sequence that changed so many lives. And there's still, I can still see LinkedIn posts, people going, yes, this, this changed my life.

And having spoken to Tim Thompson about it, the actual mechanics of the production of like 26 miles of film that they put together, I can't even process, you know, two, two train tickets. Like this is too com complicated for me. It's like, how would you do 26 miles? But you got there after stardust and. But what did it feel like? 'cause obviously as you said, your trajectory, you feel like you go in linear, like you [00:18:00] go in exactly bit by bit. Every checkpoint, everything makes sense. You don't sort of go left or right and find yourself and come back on a, on the main path. so what was it like when you entered Imaginary Forces? How did you get the job and what did it feel like to get there?

Lauren: you know what? I got there through pj. I forgot that part. What did he do? He connected me with, Michelle Doherty, who was a great mentor for me. She is a really great friend, uh, and she's also been my client, so yeah. we've carried on our relationship. but yeah, she, he connected me with Michelle and she connected me with someone in, with Steve Fuller in the New York office, and he hired me.

And, um, it was fantastic. I mean, there have been many, I dunno, generations of imaginary forces. Like, I, I can't describe it. And I, I think anyone that's worked there has this feeling like, but I feel like when I was there, it was the absolute best. Like it was so fantastic. We were all [00:19:00] friends. We went out all the time, and we worked so hard, like late nights.

All the weekends, and it, it was great. And the projects were so awesome. I mean, so many title sequences. the Pacific Boardwalk Empire, pink Panther, the Mummy, I mean, amazing stuff. It was so fun. I, I loved like every minute of it.

Radim: How would you describe it? The way of learning from some of the best people in the business. Like what was that like when we now have what I call the symptom of, of unresolved issues, which is called the imposter syndrome. But I kind of feel like 20 years ago, 25 years ago, there was no one talked about imposter syndrome because everyone just was too busy.

I'm

oversimplifying obviously. I'm not saying that it didn't happen to anyone, but would you agree that somehow the world was less noisy and exciting and we were creating a new, as you [00:20:00] said about a few minutes ago, we were talking about tweening shapes, in flash, and that was like a point of discovery.

So maybe would, I dare to say that the world was more exciting, therefore we were less preoccupied of what might be, as opposed to what should be.

Lauren: Absolutely. I think it was just about in that moment, I feel like, like all I wanted to do was get my boards picked. That's all I was thinking about. I was like, get my frames in there and then get the client to pick them, and that's all I wanted. Which sounds selfish and competitive when I say it out loud.

But that was the goal. And and I think that was what they wanted of me too, like, but I learned so much. Karen Fong. Taught me, I don't know everything. She taught me so much. and I loved learning from her. And she had her own specific way. And, I don't know, it was amazing. I, but I, I think she liked that drive, right?

That's what she [00:21:00] wanted from me. And I think sometimes I wish we could still just be that way, just make things and get excited and be in it, just break out of all the noise of everything else.

Radim: a really interesting what you said. But before we talk more about that, for those who didn't work in a specific field as you did, you said pick my boards, pick my frames. What did you do? What was your role and, what was your magic on getting your boards picked?

Lauren: So I started there as a senior designer, and. Then I, I worked my way to an art director and then a director. I started directing live action while I was there. and basically what that meant was I was designing storyboards for a title sequence, for a commercial, for an end tag, whatever it was. and, everyone there, the way it worked was everyone designed their own storyboards and we threw them into a deck and they were presented.

And, back then, I think it was [00:22:00] a little bit less strategic and, which was just funny. But, I think we were all just, I don't know, it was very creative. But yeah, everyone just designed their own way through it and, I think in some ways it was like a little less collaborative.

Lauren: but that wasn't like, it was if f it was like, I think it was, to be honest though, a little bit of the way of that time. and also maybe a little bit specific to title sequences, right? Because you're designing step by step of a sequence and that can be hard to collaborate with lots of different people on in those frames, right?

Lauren: yeah. But it's an amazing experience.

Radim: it was less strategic. I mean, looking back, it was the sign of the times. I mean, when you said, I wish it was, I wish we were that way a bit more now, but a bit less noise. That was the age of innocence. Like most of these things at that time, from my understanding and from my experience, were like done for the first time.

And as you [00:23:00] said, sometimes being a little bit more selfish and going for your, sense of identity, for your ego, going Hey, I can potentially make difference in this world. I can make a name for myself. it was a different because now we working in different times.

Radim: and things are a lot more strategic, a lot more black and white, a lot more, shareholder driven. You're thinking, oh, what we gonna do? And interestingly, I was listening to clip by Rory Sutherland And he was saying that in current advertising, the reason why everything is a little bit plain. It's because there's a fear of actually making something that's polarizing. ' cause if you make safe campaigns, people don't complain. But if you make a campaign that obviously ruffles the feathers, people complain and therefore, it goes up the chain and people are not happy.

And he said for that reason, you cannot ever imagine series, like friends ever been made again, because there are so many wrong moments in this and whatever. At that time, that was the [00:24:00] elements of discovery. Like we were pushing the boundaries, trying to find what, what was the right, what was the wrong, even though, you know, we're talking about late nineties, early two thousands, and I would like to believe that friends were slightly less, less strategic to whatever's being made today.

Lauren: Yeah, I think it was a little bit different then. and I don't, I'm not saying it was better 'cause I think it's so important to be strategic. but I do think that if we could just be a little. More fearless, it could go a long way. the world is changing very quickly.

Right? And we wanna stay true. brands wanna stay true to their heritage or to their audience and their fan base, whatever it is. But they also have to stay true to the times that are changing and to the new generations. And that means that they have to change too. And that can be really uncomfortable, but it's important, right?

And so think that it's [00:25:00] important to be a little bit fearless and to make those changes. and it doesn't have to be permanent, you know what I mean? Like there's so much fear, I think, because there's a sense of permanence with brands, but maybe it doesn't have to be permanent, right?

 Campaigns are ephemeral and we all know that. And so they're, they have more power to be more expressive or whatever. And I think brands hold back sometimes a little bit, and I wish that they didn't. I wish that brands could feel a little bit more willing to go there, because they can change over time.

Radim: That's true. It's interesting that you said, I wish we were more fearless. I think from the creative perspective, think would you say we'd be more contained? Because fearlessness doesn't always come from the creative teams. It comes from more the people who pay for it.

Lauren: Yeah, I think so. 

Radim: so. You stayed at IF for five years.

Lauren: yes. 

Radim: Why did you move? Why did you go?

Lauren: I got a little restless, I guess. I did a [00:26:00] lot of title sequences, and I wanted to try something new. So I went to Gretel and they are an amazing branding company and I mean, one of the best, right?

Radim: So you've gone actually from obviously storytelling, lots of ti title sequences into more brown focused work. Did you feel like you needed to explore this? was there another sort of magnetic pull towards it or it was a change of work a little bit.

Lauren: It was a real change of work. and at Imaginary Forces I had also been directing a lot of live action, so I went from doing like directing live action campaigns and title sequences to to real. brand focused work, and it was a massive change. And I think when I got there, I was excited and then I was instantly scared and I felt, I think nervous for the [00:27:00] first time that I was like a fish out of water.

and I think I needed to like step back and listen and learn. And I'm so glad that I did. I mean, I think a lot of people say this, if it, it was like going to school a little bit there. Like I, I got a good education and branding and I'm so glad that I did that because I do really fundamentally believe that branding and storytelling should be intertwined and we will be so much better at one if we know the other, right?

 Because. A great storytelling is usually better if we understand how to be systematic, because it's not gonna be a 32nd spot anymore. It's just not, it's going to be, a system, social content, or it's going to be, 360 everywhere. And so it's gonna be a system of stories.

And so you have to understand the system [00:28:00] behind it. and if it's just system, then hopefully you're creating a story that's resonating, right? So I think that it's so crucial that you understand the other, and so it's symbiotic and I'm, I'm really glad I did that.

Radim: You said two words and my ears kind of picked up 'cause you said listen and learn. Those are two crucial things that any creative can do every day of no, any day, any hour, any minute, is just to listen, step back and actually take in what needs to be done. What, what's, what's being discussed, what's being explained, what's the requirements?

Because you know that don't like calling it ego based, a sense of identity. Like you want to have part of something, you want to be validated, a creative process. Therefore, you volunteer the first idea that comes to your mind only to realize that's not going anywhere. And you said that gradually it was like going to school.

You were scared and you had to listen and learn,

 if you remember like what [00:29:00] was it that, overwhelmed you straight away, like to realize that, that there's the other side of, brand and storytelling.

Lauren: There is a system to branding and listen, every company does it differently. Every company, there's a process and certainly with different challenges and different brands, even you modify it of course, but there are systems around it. And I had to learn that. And I think I was so confident before, and I know there was, there was plenty of ego in creative and, you know, all I was saying about like trying to get your boards in, like all of that, I feel like I rose so fast and then I got to Gretel and I was like, oh my God, I don't know anything.

 And that was, you know, that was scary. So, I had to like step back and, you know. Learn the systems behind branding and learn the systems behind systems because they're [00:30:00] quite complicated. And I was not really building systems. I was, I remember I did this, branding job at Imaginary Forces, and yes, it was a system, but it was literally based on how you felt I shot all of these beautiful pieces of footage that were actually, miniatures.

I, I created all of these scenes that were these amazing miniatures and, it was mysterious and cinematic and beautiful. And we filmed all these vignettes and then yes, I threw them into these like little like clips that were then used across a, a network. But I, to, in all fairness, I was not thinking about the system.

I was just thinking about how it made you feel. And it was successful because it did make you feel something. But I don't think I was like actually, understanding the other part of it. And so I think at Gretel, I, I really had to learn the other side.

Radim: when you talk about the miniatures and when you talk about those. Clips that make you feel [00:31:00] something that kind of takes me back from my experience to, to VH one, the MTV, you know, the random stuff, like the nonsensical, the things that surprise you. The things like, why does it exist?

And of course it needs to exist. This makes sense even though it doesn't make any sense. So it's interesting how we started talking about the world of brand and like how the systematic approach needs to add up. Because ultimately the not 20 years on things find themselves, in, in a totally different application, in a lot more sort of fragmented marketing where, we need to basically put things in a different places in a different way, but they still need to go back to the true ideas.

So from Gretel, you went to sibling and when you said the, the Brandon storytelling need, need to live together, it sounds like that you found your home.

Lauren: Yes, but you're missing two huge things that happened. I had two children in that time.

Radim: I have to mention it because [00:32:00] it's important. I had two girls and I had one of them while I was at Gretel, and then I had the other one right upon leaving, and then I started at Sibling right afterwards. So I say that because they're a huge part of my life. And, I love what I do and I, and I always love what I do.

Lauren: but. I've, I've managed to find some balance with them, and that was really hard when they were very little. but yeah, so I, I, I had these kids and then I went over to sibling and I, not only was trying to find this balance with my kids, but I was trying to find this balance between storytelling and branding.

And it, for me, sibling was really that perfect place to do it.

Radim: So speaking of your daughters and parenthood, parenting teaches us things we never expected to learn. how would you say that it influenced the way you work, the way, how you see the [00:33:00] world as a parent? seen the world from different sets of eyes. what was that change for you?

Lauren:  It's changed everything. It's changed everything about how I work. So yes, there's the feeling of curiosity and seeing life in a completely different way. You know, they ask me all kinds of questions that are funny and sad and weird and I love it and it makes me look at everything differently. So there's that.

Lauren:  there's also just the phases of your life where I told you when I was IAF and, and at Greta, even, at that moment, you work, you know, all hours. And I didn't care what I was missing. Like that's all I did and I was totally happy to do it. It but then you have these kids and suddenly. You know, you have to, you have personal responsibilities that you just, you they demand of you.

And the [00:34:00] good news is that your career actually shifts at the same time. Because as you grow into leadership, your value isn't measured anymore in the hours that your worked and the volume of your work, but it's in your vision and your clarity and your impact. And so I really believe that I've learned to work so much smarter and faster and, I have way more confidence than I had then.

And I, I think that my kids have weirdly given me that.

Radim: you said earlier when you went to Gretel that you felt like you didn't know anything and I kind of felt that about parenting. You feel like you dunno anything and then it happens. so that's in interesting how that influenced the way, only way to, to sibling and, um, with sibling rivalry, I mean, I, I've not been aware of sibling until very recently, about six months ago, maybe a year ago. And I'm just discovering the world of work that's being creative by this incredible outfit. And it's people like you, Mitch, and others that are [00:35:00] creating work that is so fascinating is so, I mean, engaging, mesmerizing, you know, like, and it feels perfectly like how those two worlds of brand and storytelling really work.

So what was that again? Then we got kind of chapter four, let's say we've got, you know, we've got imaginary forces, we've got Greel, we've got children, and then we've got now sibling. what did it feel like that the sort of different view on life work, creativity, stepping into somewhere new, did it feel like again, you didn't know anything?

Or were you actually ready?

Lauren: I think it took me a minute, because. I had to figure out the cadence of my life a little bit of being a creative leader and having two very little kids. Right. They were so tiny. That's really challenging as a mom, right? And I, I don't think there were a ton of female leaders in this industry with tiny children.

And so it was definitely a challenge. so I had to kind of find my footing. [00:36:00] but I, I did it, you know, I got through it, and that's, that's all you can do, right? I just, I just needed to get through that time. I didn't wanna take time off, you know, I took like a, my normal parental leave and I think five months later I was back and I wanted to just like, get back to work.

And that's, my husband knows this best. If I'm not working, I am not happy. So like, I have to be back in it. So, I, yeah, I, I think I got there relatively quickly and then once I was back in it, I was back in it and, and then I was able to kind of like get that cadence and that rhythm. And then, yeah, I felt like as I kind of grew into that role of, creative director and then eventually executive creative director, everything really started to come to crystallize for me.

 And I felt so much better providing leadership and providing vision across the board and also still being able to see my kids at home.

Radim: It's really interesting what [00:37:00] you said, if I'm not working and I'm not happy, is there sort of unfinished business? Do you feel like there was so much more to give that you were like itching to get back

Lauren: Oh my God, yes. I can't, I, like, I have to be, I have to be creating, I have to be working. 

Radim: What's your relationship with, with your creativity and work? Because you know, sometimes you have to be a little bit disciplined and be present with children and go like, yes, this is their time now. But of course you can never stop yourself. No, stop thinking because you, you can never tell. You can never do that. But did you find that at times when you cannot work, you actually appreciate the time you actually got more time to think.

Lauren: I am not great at, turning off like that. And I know that's not, that's not what I should say. I wish I said I put everything down and I sit with my kids and I put, you know, and my kids, by the way are 12 and almost 10. what I have found. [00:38:00] Better for me, and this is not for everyone, but what I have found better is to com keep them completely merged.

 And the reason why I do that is because then it doesn't stress me out. Like when I tried to keep them apart, then I'd be like, oh my God. Like I have to get back to work because all this stuff is piling on me. Or I'm on vacation and I'm, and I, I know I can't work. And I, I don't do that anymore. Like, I will rather just take the call, jump into that, think about it when I can, and I keep it completely flexible and back and forth.

 And then I'm not stressed out. It's just a part of my life. And my kids know it's a part of my life and they love what I do, and they see all my work and, and it's fine. You know, I just keep it all together as one.

Radim: yeah, don't think there's a right or wrong answer. I mean, there's so many people who. On this show talked about the fact, like how they are addicted to their phone and how much they know they should be doing something different, but we can only be who we are. You know, I think there's this, there's potentially some sort of [00:39:00] outside expectations of how we should be operating, but ultimately you want to be who you are and do the things that feel right and that, you know, doesn't sort of. Impede any way of, being expressive, because I feel with children, what we do creatively, like it actually shows them what is the possibility because so many people from our generation, I'm saying, saying it that way, but from previous generation, shall I say, we didn't know that that thing could be the thing.

Like how many times I've spoken to someone, they were like, I didn't know graphic design existed. I didn't know motion existed. The thing wasn't taught, now.

 ultimately like we showing them the possibilities that we didn't have. So I think it's, it's, it's, yeah, keeping it flexible sounds like a perfect way of doing things and showing them what it's all about. so with sibling and the leadership and responsibilities and small, two young children. You got into work, so you said it took you a minute to get into it, but once you get going, things go quite exciting quite quickly because [00:40:00] you've shared with me, you shared with me your videos for the b and h store, which I've absolutely adored because this, it's an incredible work.

But it feels like the work that you did honestly on, on the brand side and the storytelling side and, and put it all together, it is quite remarkable. So how did that work come together, if you could still remember?

Lauren: It's one of my favorite ones. 

Radim: this project came in and, oh my God, I wanted this job so badly. I was so excited about it. so we went in, we pitched it and, Actually, the way it was working was, it was with BNH and it was with Google. So Google actually was obviously the platform 'cause it's on YouTube. And then you Google would provide the measurements around it.

Lauren: So when we would create these films for BNH, they would then,measure the data of how they were performing. And then we were able to like actually modify based on how they were performing, which was incredible. And I've never had never done that before. But anyhow, that's sort of another side to the story.

so BNH basically [00:41:00] came to us and they said, people who know us love us and that's great, but there are a lot of people who don't know who we are and we wanna reach that audience. We wanna be on YouTube, we wanna put videos on there, but we don't know what we want them to be. And so we had to come up with basically phases of creative, Just creating brand awareness, and getting it out into getting it out into the world and, trying to get a new audience for them, a younger audience, a more modern audience, more women. I mean, this is sort of the brief I get from every client, but, so we created three phases for them, the first phase was brand awareness.

 that was one of my favorite, oh my gosh. I went and basically lived at the store. I went through all the aisles. I got to know all of the employees. I got to know ev like ev like the corporate, everyone who works there. And I [00:42:00] think, I think why I loved it so much is because they are so honest.

They are so true to who they are and I, and they just really are sincere and direct and they have a kind of quirky and unique personality, and all I wanted to do was celebrate them. Right. And, and really honor their personality and their values and let people in on it. Right? So that's really all it is.

And it's so funny because in branding and in storytelling, oftentimes you're looking for some bigger insight or something outside. you're looking at the competition, you're looking at something different. And usually it's just inside. It's just like, it's just them. That's all it was. I was like, how do we just let people see [00:43:00] exactly who they are?

And that's what made it so great. So, yeah, I, I filmed the brief history of BNH and it was a wonderful opportunity to just, represent exactly who they are. A little collage. I went and interviewed them and, I got Ed Burns to do the VO and that was hilarious. he is one of my favorite filmmakers.

Mekon will joke about this endlessly with me because I love him. So, but I, my writer on it, Amy Swift, she actually had a connection to him. We reached out to him. He loved BNH so much that he was like, absolutely, I'll do it. And he stayed with us as the voice of BNH and he was perfect 'cause he had this like New York sensibility and, you know, obviously a filmmaker uses all of BNH Pro products and it was great.

So that we did the brief history and then the meet the staff was also amazing because, you know, their staff is [00:44:00] literally, they are amazing. They will sell you a $500 camera instead of a $5,000 camera if they believe it's right for you. And I love the conveyor belt in the store. So we decided we would just film along this conveyor belt and just show the personalities of all the people.

I filmed them at like three in the morning, all of the real people at BNH and that was so fun. It was, yeah, it's one of my most, happy memories of, projects.

Radim: I can see that. I mean, yeah, when you said it, it was just to celebrate them. Just like sometimes, you know, the brown story is just right there. Sometimes you don't have to invent anything, and when I watched those videos one after another, I was like, I just don't want it to stop. It was like, it felt like a. Season like a, like a sitcom. It felt like a comedy series. It felt so brilliant because when you, as you say, celebrate, the people who worked there, who have worked there for years and years and years are so immersed in their world. And I actually believe in what they believe it's, yeah, it, [00:45:00] it was shining for every single frame.

It was just like, this is incredible. And now I know also how we did that show. He just used to convey belt. I was like, how did you do that? Oh, now it makes sense. Absolute sense. But from that work, which obviously is quite interesting that you said also there was a data that you were sort of tweaking how we was performing, 

Lauren: what's interesting is the data showed that people didn't wanna see the products. People were more interested in the people. So actually the data worked, The data worked for me. 'cause I was like, yes, I don't wanna show the products, I wanna show the people. You know, you'd think that the data wouldn't work on the behalf of the creative.

And in those instances it actually did. It was pretty cool.

Radim: That's really awesome. It's awesome to hear. 

But, if you were to fast forward to what you do now with sibling, you find yourself in a slightly different spectrum of storytelling, which happens around sports. And you did talk of Barcelona and you said, a client came to me Asked me to work on this project and I said, I know nothing about sports [00:46:00] and I wanna know. How did you feel that when you went into that meeting and said, look, I know nothing about this.

 What was that sort of liberation of that moment?

Lauren: Well, I will say this person's a friend of mine, so it was a little bit easier to have that conversation. I was, we were talking about this project and he kind of knew I wasn't super like into this sport and he was like, listen, it's okay. You gotta do what you do for this sport. And I thought two things.

One, first of all, that's an amazing way to think, you know, we need to bring what we have to every sector. It doesn't matter if you know the sector. Or not, you know, we offer a fresh perspective, and I think that's always important to keep in mind. You know, we offer something, we are experts in what we do, so whether we know the sector or not, we're gonna learn about it.

 But we bring some, we bring a fresh perspective. And the second thing that it brought was, [00:47:00] oh my God, sports need help. well, I've been resisting it because I think they look bad, but why, why not try to change it? And so that's, that's sort of what's brought me here.

Radim: Your examples in your talk of those sports graphics, I'm not sure if you call them machines or robots or something. It was just like that sort of overly 3D stuff when you were talking about it and I was thinking about stuff like why like,

because literally as, I mean as you said in your talk, like close your eyes and she said, close your eyes and imagine the sports graphics.

And I'm thinking, oh yeah, potentially by the last 15 years of sports graphics come to me and just like you've got these. Extruded 3D glossy, no bevel stuff I always felt like it was quite American. It was quite like, strong and bullish. And I think when you think about it, a bit of a theaterbut the way you flip things on its head and what you do with it.

Like again, fusing the brand architecture, and the way how [00:48:00] you can bring in storytelling, which feels true to the situation. 

But maybe, you know, the theater worked for as long as it did. But again, talking about liberation, like how did you feel doing the things and being able to do them differently that, signal the change in the way you work.

Lauren: Excited, just so excited to try something new. And I think I think, I feel that at the beginning of every job. I'd be curious if every creative feels this way, but for me, the very beginning of a job is always like the most exciting, right? Because you're like, there's so much potential and so much excitement and you don't know where it's gonna go.

Lauren: and so the moment I got into this, I was like, I had that feeling of oh my gosh, there's so many places that this can go. And I still feel that way. And that's a really cool feeling because I think that this industry has a lot of opportunity. It's been, it's at its [00:49:00] infancy, you know, that it's been living in this way for so long and it's almost been accepted.

I, do believe, especially in a, in the states, I've seen, in the UK I've seen some work that is definitely on its way. And I just feel like in the States there's more robots. I don't know why that is. So there's a certain aesthetic here. but I believe there's a way to make it so that game experience is more elevated and sophisticated and younger people and more women are gonna wanna watch it.

 And yeah, I think there's just a lot more places that can go.

Radim: Because with the work that you're doing, you are trying to bring the youth to the game as well as work with the core demographic. And one of the core demographics is your dad.

Lauren: Yes. 

Radim: And now I'm thinking what you said at the beginning, like, now I, now I work with my dad. So, you know, with his market research and him being a core [00:50:00] demographic, I just kind of excited for bringing back that sort of conversation from around the dinner table into the workplace, going like, Hey, you, my core demographic, what can I learn from you?

Lauren: I do it all the time, I call him or when we are together, I ask him over dinner and he gives me all of the things that he likes or doesn't like and, it's super helpful. I mean, he watches every sports game and he's the most honest. And logical person I have ever known. He will walk me through what he thinks and why.

He will tell me why what I did was not a good idea. And it's fine. He and he will stand by it, right? he's very logical about it. So it's great. I get, I, I try not to be offended. It's fine.

Radim: That's very funny because on the other side, obviously you've got your daughters that the, the, the future. do you get a similar feedback from them?

Lauren: They're very funny. I think, uh, that they enjoy it. they [00:51:00] love sports. Sophie's very into soccer and Eliza's very into volleyball. I have yet to work on volleyball. That's my next goal. and they're very excited that I've been working on sports and they haven't given me any criticism, so I'm really happy about that.

They're, they're mostly happy.

Radim: They're mostly happy. It's quite a tough group of people to satisfy when they've got absolutely no filter, when they think what they think. so this is interesting. One thing you just said I think was summarizes the way you work and you said, there's so many places this could go. And it really, when I think about how we can summarize the conversation, it's so many places this could go Even though it's been kind of linear path, it's so amazing to hear that, after everything that you've done and and everything that you're working on right now, there's still excitement about where this can go.

Like what can you create and how can you influence, so many people with the work you do in the way of them being [00:52:00] excited about what the sport can offer, what it can do, how we can sort of bring people together. So I think that's a pretty amazing place to be.

Lauren: It is an amazing place to be. I think. it might have been a straight line, but I am happy I'm here. I think Joe and Mehan have done everything for me to make sure that I am here. I mean, I've been here for 10 years and I came here specifically to do this because of them. when I got here, they, I don't know how much you know about them, but Joe has a very specific style and Mekon has a very specific style, and I was like.

 I have to see what this is about. Like they feel like a very interesting pair and I wanna work with them. Right. And so when I came here they knew my approach, right? And, um, I don't know, they've always given me the time and the space to do what I do. And, and surely they make fun of me all the time, but they let [00:53:00] me do it.

And, you know, I might be rigorous at times. but they allow that. And, I, I think it's really important to find a place where you feel your best self and you gotta stretch and you gotta learn. but you also have to feel confident find a place where you can be you and do the work you wanna be doing.

 And you gotta have a great team. And, you know, I have definitely played a role building this team 'cause I've been here for so long. This team is magic. it's an amazing group of people and they're the people that make this all happen.

Radim: That's fantastic. what I normally do, I just scan my notes and to summarize the question of what would I finish with. And as you were talking about, I wanna feel I can work, I, I can feel my best self. I'm just literally looking at the word feel, which I wrote, wrote down earlier, and everything that I feel that you've told me about your [00:54:00] work is very much about the expression of your soul, about how you feel and how it makes other people feel. So yeah, thank you for what you do. Thank you for talking to me today, and I'm excited to see how many places this could go.

Lauren: you so much for having me. I really appreciate it. It's been fun. I.

Radim: Thank you.

Lauren: Thank you for listening to this episode of Daring Creativity Podcast I'd love to know your thoughts questions and suggestions So please get in touch via the email in the show notes or social channels This episode was produced and presented by me Rad Malid The audio production was done by Neil Mackay from 7 million Bucks Podcast Thank you and I hope to see you on the next episode [00:55:00]