What happens when a million-copy bestselling author realizes she can't escape herself? Meera Lee-Patel, creator of the transformative journal "Start Where You Are," takes us inside the messy reality of self-discovery that spawned her life-changing work. ~ From feeling like an outsider in suburban America to building a creative empire from her Brooklyn bedroom, Meera reveals how books became her refuge and ultimately her calling.

In this deeply personal conversation, she opens up about the overwhelming flood of reader messages that followed her success, the imposter syndrome that haunted her for years, and the shocking moment when becoming a mother stripped away everything she thought she knew about herself. You'll discover her surprisingly mathematical approach to creating books that touch souls, why rejection became her greatest teacher, and how she learned that letting go isn't something you do—it's something that happens when you finally accept where you are.

This episode will resonate with anyone who's ever felt stuck between who they were and who they're becoming, offering a roadmap for finding peace in the transition.

Order new book 'Learn to Let Go by Meera Lee Patel here 

Key Takeaways

• Self-discovery requires accepting who you are now rather than constantly seeking external validation or approval from others
• Letting go isn't something you can force—it's a natural byproduct of accepting your current circumstances and reality
• Books and creative work can provide escape, comfort, and connection, especially during feelings of isolation or being different
• Sharing vulnerable creative work opens doors to profound human connection but requires learning to set healthy boundaries
• Imposter syndrome can follow creative success for years until life circumstances (like parenthood) force you to release it
• Mathematical planning and spreadsheet organization can coexist beautifully with creative expression and artistic intuition in book-making
• Rejection can be reframed as opportunity for improvement when you're working on something truly meaningful to you
• Creative children learn by watching parents model entrepreneurial spirit and "just doing it" without waiting for permission
• The writing process clarifies thinking, and clear thinking improves writing—they work hand in hand to refine ideas
• Becoming a parent means mourning the loss of your former self while discovering new aspects of who you can become
• Setting pagination and word limits forces brevity, which strengthens writing by requiring clarity and eliminating unnecessary elements
• True creative fulfillment comes from making work that matters rather than just producing content for commercial success

Daring Creativity. Podcast with Radim Malinic

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Meera Lee-Patel: [00:00:00] learn to let go has been my journey over the last five years since becoming a mother. And honestly. Being forced to let go, being forced to let go of the person that I was, even though I was not ready to let that person go, I still wanted to be that person.

I still do, I still do, but she is gone. I cannot find her. I have to look, there's no room for her in this house. Um, let go of not only the person I was, but the person I thought I would be the parent. I thought I would be the artist I thought I would be. There's been a lot of that. And, uh, I will say, and especially in terms of creativity and creative work, letting go of the very large part of me that finds pleasure in beating myself up in being critical in being critical under the guise of making myself better. Um, letting go of that person, learning how to change that person into somebody who is kinder and supportive and encouraging the way I want to parent my children into becoming, you know, better people. It's not through bullying, it's through encouragement and kindness and wisdom.  And this is the first time in my life that I've approached myself, um, in that way. 

[00:01:00] Welcome to the Daring Creativity Podcast, a show about daring to forever explore creativity that isn't about chasing shiny perfection. It's about showing up with all your doubts and imperfections and making them count. It's about becoming more of who you already are. My name is Radim Malinic. I'm a designer, author, and eternally curious human being.

I am talking to a broad range of guests who share their stories of small actions that sparked lifetime discoveries, taking one step towards the thing that made them feel most alive. Let me begin this episode with a question for you. Let me begin this episode with a question. Are you ready to discover what happens when you dare to create?

Let me begin this episode of a question. Are you ready to discover what happens when you dare to create?  Let me begin this episode with a question. Are you ready to discover what happens when you dare to create? 

Radim Malinic: My guest today is an author and artist Mira Lee Patel, who is known for her bestselling journal. Start Where you Are a newsletter. Dear somebody, our conversation [00:02:00] touches on every aspect of what it's like to be a creative human in search of artistic expression. Mira shared with me her journey from seeking external validation to discover an inner piece to discover an inner acceptance for journaling and creativity.

How becoming a mother forced her to let go of old identities and embrace new version of herself. This conversation explores themes of imposter syndrome, the entrepreneurial spirit inherited from immigrant parents, and finding creative fulfillment in lives, unexpected moments, how to let go to find freedom and compassion.

It's my pleasure to share with you my conversation with Mira Lee Patel.

Radim Malinic: Hey, Mira, it's great to have you on the show. How are you doing today?

Meera Lee-Patel: I am great. It's wonderful to be here. Thank you for having [00:03:00] me.

Radim Malinic: I am really excited to have you on the show because  I've been somehow getting you a newsletter called Dear Somebody for the last six years, and it's a wonderful body of work that seems to be evolving. It's growing, it's changing, you know, colors and shapes, and I'm excited for you for obviously for the release of your new book as well as as as our conversation.

So if somebody hasn't heard of Mira Hali Patel, how would you introduce yourself?

Meera Lee-Patel: Um, I would say I am a self-taught author and artist. I am primarily concerned with writing and illustrating books. Um, and all of my work, whether it's my journals, my Illustrated essays, or what I'm just getting into, which is pictures, book and children's literature, it is all concerned with discovering and holding onto your sense of self.

Um, I am very, very interested in helping other people and along the way myself become more connected to who I [00:04:00] am, uh, and my place to in the world.

Radim Malinic: I mean, there's already so much in that answer that we can go on about, but I wanna ask you a question  in your. In your newsletters, you always say, A year from now, here are five things from this week I'd like to remember. Okay. I'm gonna make it slightly wider and shorter. What are the five things that you've learned on a discovery of sense of self?

What are the five things that, um, have been the revelation for you so far?

Meera Lee-Patel: Oh wow. Um, what a, first of all, what a wonderful question and I can't believe that you've been reading Dear somebody for six years because I think, like you mentioned before we started recording, it's been through so many iterations. It has changed,  um, so many times. I guess every time that I've changed.

Um, and it's amazing to look back and see all the different versions, but if I had to think about five things that I've learned, was that the question?

Radim Malinic: I mean, we can scale it down. I mean, I realize that asking you for five things might be a little bit ambitious, especially there was no preparation for this question, so I'm sorry.

Meera Lee-Patel: That's okay. Um, I'd say that the, the one that keeps coming to the forefront of my mind right now is that you cannot escape yourself. So everything that you want to accomplish, everybody, all the people that you want to be, they all start with the person you are now. [00:05:00] And that means having to look at yourself, having to listen to yourself, and having to accept yourself and who you are in this moment.

If you ever hope to grow and become more. I think that's the one that keeps coming back to me over and over again is this is who I am now, so where do I go from here?

Radim Malinic: The topic of self-acceptance is something that I am very much. What's the right verb to use? Like exploring and, and kind of as you as, as you just said, you can't escape yourself. And I realized personally, like when you realize that there's such thing as self-acceptance and you realize there is your own space in this world, everything kind of melts away.

You know? And if feelings of competition comparison goes like, Hey, I, I'm, I'm okay because for you, what is your journey? I normally sort of take people back on their like sort of discovery of creativity where they've come from about their families and their upbringing. But

 what was the discovery of your self that prompted even that realization that, you know, this is me, I can't escape myself, you know, I'm trying to get a sense of myself.

Was there a trigger? Was there something that it started there?

Meera Lee-Patel: I don't know if there was any one trigger, rather it was, um, a series of smaller reminders throughout my life. Um, the fact that no matter what accomplishment I had achieved or where I was or who I met, there was always this tug that, um, it wasn't [00:06:00] enough. And I think that's because for. Most of my life, I have been seeking approval and validation outside of myself.

And so no matter what I was able to do or who I was able to please, I wasn't able to, uh, I wasn't able to feel satisfaction, um, or true joy because I had not accepted, or, you know, this, this might sound like too much, but I had not really learned how to love myself. And that was a realization that took a really, really long time to get to.

Um, and that's really where the real work began, right? Um, career, family, all of that stripped away. Like the, the real work was just me in a room on my own, uh, and having to be with myself.

Radim Malinic: Those sort of feelings of not being enough often are formed through our childhood, through, you know, influence parenting and we unknowingly sort of take it along with us into our adulthood [00:07:00] and then find ourselves, you know, working in solitude, endless hours of the day and night only to realize that I still need to add more.

I still there, there's still a little bit element of like, I haven't worked this out. Maybe this should be better only to realize that. No one really cares. You know, like, it, it's, it's, it's about the expression that, no, this is my work and whatever I'm putting out in the world, it should be enough. It should be good enough.

Like I've spent time on this. Like, it's, it's an idea that's been around for a while. So it's an interesting story. Um, that makes me think. Was there any other sort of work that work, did you do any sort of, any other work like in therapy in parallel or in, in sort of other way of sort of self discovery that helped you to sort of get to a place where now enough is defined?

Meera Lee-Patel: Well, you know, you know, this kind of work is what I was invested in, which is actually in 2015, my first journal start Where you are came out and, you know, for the last 10 years, people have asked me, what, what caused you to write this journal? What caused you to make this book? And it's because this is the work that I was doing and it's the work that I needed.

 And I've released several journalists since then over the past decade, and they have [00:08:00] all come from me needing that work at that time in my moment, in, uh, in that moment in time. I'm sorry. Um, so the, the journey of self-exploration, of self-reflection, of getting to know myself is one that I have. Uh, embarked on, on my own, but I've been very lucky to be able to kind of, uh, chronicle that work in book form and put it out into the world in the hopes that I might help somebody else.

Radim Malinic: Did you feel, so as a, as a fellow author, I've got questions about publishing because I know a little bit about your story. Obviously you quit your job at 30, is that right? And then you pursued a career of other something else and you published your book. So the journaling, how did your journaling almost manifest itself in getting a, a publishing contract?

And if I could bolt on another sub-question to this, um, in the life that at that point potentially still hasn't had the self-exploration and enough and, and a defiant and definition of what enough is, what was that like and what was the process for you to actually be making a book that's gonna be bought by anyone?

Meera Lee-Patel: Mm-hmm.

Radim Malinic: Whilst, do you still feel like you might not be enough?

Meera Lee-Patel:  Um, can I ask you to clarify the second part of that question about not being enough?

Radim Malinic: okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna reword a thing because, you know, you said, um, you were on a, on a quest of, on a sort of self discovery and so forth. Um, and, and so I'll reword the whole thing.

Meera Lee-Patel: Okay.

Radim Malinic: So your journaling as itself in, in a publishing contract,

Meera Lee-Patel: Yes.

Radim Malinic: and it was after you left your full-time job. And what I want to know is what was the experience of actually sharing what potentially could be quite personal with the world at large?

Meera Lee-Patel: Okay, so there is one thing, which is that I published my first book about two years before I left my job.

Radim Malinic: Okay.

Meera Lee-Patel: Um, so start where you are. Came out in 2015 and I was able to leave my job in 2017, um, while I was working on my next two books. Um, if [00:09:00] when I published start where it was incredibly vulnerable and also incredibly exciting, I think I felt validated that this type of internal work that, um, that a publishing company could see it as valuable and as something that could be. Commercially successful. So there were, there were a lot of different forms of validation, especially for me, uh, because I am self-taught and that self-taught label, I think has always felt like a bit of a chip on my shoulder for me. Um,  so I, I felt an immense amount of gratitude. I also, you know, a lot of imposter syndrome, a lot of, uh, do I deserve this?

Have I earned it? Did I get lucky? Is the work truly valuable or is it luck? There was a lot of that, and it, and the imposter syndrome followed me for quite a while. I would say for the next [00:10:00] 5, 6, 7 years. Um, you know, I, I'll even say until I had children, because when I had children, I was just too tired. To carry the imposter syndrome.

I don't think it left. I was just too tired to hang on to it. And so I had to let it go. But that did follow me for a while. And I think a lot of, I think a lot of creatives deal with the imposter syndrome and not quite being able to see themselves and their worth the way other people do.

Radim Malinic: Do you remember the first time you walked into a bookstore and saw your book on sale? Was that a peak imposter syndrome or was that a bit of a relief going when this chapter is finally closed and I can move on?

Meera Lee-Patel: I do remember that, and I have to say,  um, it didn't shed the imposter syndrome, but in those moments when I saw my books in bookstores, in real bookstores that I had always visited, it was just pure joy, um, excitement, pride. It was, it was all the good things. [00:11:00] Yeah.

Radim Malinic: There's a reason why as I asked that question, because I, when I published my second book, it was picked up by the bookstore Foils, which is one of the main beautiful bookstores in London, and I remember the graphic. Design section was literally as you walk in on the left hand side, and they had my first and second book displayed and stacks of them.

And I'm like,

Meera Lee-Patel: Wow.

Radim Malinic: this feels, this feels weird. Like I 

was blindly naive on my journey because I've started my own publishing company. I didn't wanna wait for anything. I didn't wanna wait for any permissions. Uh, of course I made ton of mistakes, but it worked, you know, it was there. And I remember that really strange feeling.

I was like, wait a minute. You actually, you were here somehow you managed to get behind the enemy lines and you are in this store. And I was like, I need to buy a book by somebody else just to sort of make myself feel a little bit normal. I mean, it was very interesting because I was trying to think about book making process and it's like tidying up a big room, you know, like you've got loads and loads of stuff happening, like lying around and you don't always see anything, not everything in your peripheral review.

 And then only when the book is published, when it's done, you. Oh, I didn't see this thing just below my view. I didn't see this. You know, you start sort of seeing stuff. So I think when you end that process, I'm sure you would sort of agree with it. Like when it feels like a building side, then you publish it and you are like, oh, all of the other thoughts that I'm coming through and now I can potentially allow myself to feel like an imposter for a while.

 But, um, what, what was really interesting, what you said about your, your book is just that you said it was, it was validating that there was an interest in the book, there was a commercial success for the books, and that, you know, people resonated with what you were ultimately sharing with the world,

Meera Lee-Patel: Mm-hmm.

Radim Malinic: where you prepared for what was coming next.

Like for the wave of feedback and stories and, and, and interactions.

Meera Lee-Patel: I was not, and I'll say one of the things that has been a, I don't know if you have this experience as well, but when you share and a very honest and vulnerable part of yourself with the world, the world will open up to you. And so the part of this journey that I was really unprepared for were how many emails, messages, letters I would get from people sharing their personal journeys with me.

 And it was hugely humbling. It was really incredible that something I [00:12:00] wrote. You know, in, in from my little bedroom in Brooklyn, New York could reach somebody in India, could reach somebody in Australia, could reach somebody in London. And that these people took the time and energy to write to me and share a little bit of their humanity with me.

I was not prepared for that. And, uh, it was at times very overwhelming as well. Um, and that is something that I had to learn how to respond to, how to set boundaries, and how to really just be, you know, bottom line grateful that somebody is choosing to open up to me.

Radim Malinic: Did you find with the feedback then you've got, and I'm assuming some of this could be quite heavy because obviously you are asking people to self explore and I haven't, I have not met anyone in the world who would be crystal clear diamond with no issues. Like we all have something. Some, some of us are in denial.

Some of us are very much working on it. [00:13:00] So as you said, you, you've got a process of like, how potentially deal with this because

Meera Lee-Patel: Mm-hmm.

Radim Malinic: you open, basically, I'm trying to find analogy of like, you know, you open the door and there's a hurricane of information coming your way that feels partially unwanted because you're thinking I have pushed no, this, this is a one way traffic.

I pushed this out and it's coming to you. So how did you. Create a system and how did you deal with it, and did you even engage with some of the stuff that you tried to help people or did you find yourself maybe, you know, there's a book form that just potentially does the work for me.

Meera Lee-Patel: Um, you know, I, I cycled through a lot of different approaches. I will say I felt very overwhelmed and very, um. I equipped to, uh, respond to some of the, of the messages that I received. And I think the important thing for me to remember first and foremost is that I'm not a licensed therapist and I did not want to do or say anything that could under any, you know, circumstances cause the recipient [00:14:00] harm or pain.

 Um, and so I had to come up with a system where I am acknowledging the person where they are in their life, you know, the, the emotions, whether, whether it is pain, gratitude, whatever, whatever they're feeling. But I also had to learn to detach. I had to learn that I am not, uh, necessarily responsible for solving the. Uh, this person's predicament, um, that I am not the best person to tell them what to do. That that is not my role. And that took, uh, quite a while to feel comfortable, you know, because I really wanted to express gratitude to all of my readers. And for especially people who take the time to write to me. I didn't want them to feel forgotten.

I didn't want them to feel that I did not read their message. I did not care. But at the same time, their safety and their wellbeing were more important than what they [00:15:00] thought of me. And so I had to make sure that, in my response, that is what I was prioritizing their wellbeing, not their image of me.

Radim Malinic: It's beautifully said. Um, I'm gonna segue this from 20 16 20 17. From that time, almost 10 years forward to today because you're getting ready to release your new book, learn to Let Go. I feel like what you've just said is a little bit of a sort of segue of learning to let go, like how to do this. And we are gonna put some color in between of dlac sort of nine years.

But, um, your new book, learn to Let Go is a, again, it's a journal for new beginning and what I want to know, how do I pronounce that? What I want to know is where does the form of journaling and medium of books, you know, come into your life that has become such a important body of your work? Um, I mean, I know this is two questions at one, but with the feeling of create a new book, like how do you motivate yourself?

You get, I'm sure you get questions from people like, Hey, how did you come up with this new book? Like, what gives you the idea? And I get it all, all the time, but how this new [00:16:00] book came about and how is it sort of connected to your love of books and making books?

Meera Lee-Patel: Oh my gosh. I love this question 'cause I love talking about my affinity for books. Um, so I guess I'll answer that one first, which is that I did always want to be a writer. Um, I was writing, it's a very cliche answer. I was always writing and drawing my own, my own stories. I was always writing poetry. Um,  I was reading at an early age.

 I think that from a young age I found an escape in books. I found an escape from my very tiny, very safe suburban life. Um, I found an escape from being the only,  um, person of color in my school. I found an escape from, you know, being the only immigrant family that didn't, uh, belong in our town. From the bullying, from the feeling like an [00:17:00] outcast.

 Books were books, allowed me to travel without leaving my home. And they were a comfort. They were an escape, they were solace, they were friendship. And this affinity for books I've always carried and I always knew whether it is my livelihood or not, I will be making books. Um, the second part of your question, which is like, where do I get ideas for the things that I want to make usually? All of my books have come from a topic that I have been unable to let go of. Um, it's kind of, you know, like that, that Buddhist teaching, which says like, the lesson will keep following you until you have learned it. And for all of the, the adult books that I've made, which, you know, they're all, they all are on the themes of introspection and self-exploration.

These are all subjects that I have, I have yet to master, and they all crop up during different periods in my life. And learn to [00:18:00] let go has been my journey over the last five years since becoming a mother. And honestly. Being forced to let go, being forced to let go of the person that I was, even though I was not ready to let that person go, I still wanted to be that person.

I still do, but she is gone. I cannot find her. I have to look, there's no room for her in this house. Um, to let go of not only the person I was, but the person I thought I would be the parent. I thought I would be the artist I thought I would be. There's been a lot of that. And, uh, I will say, and especially in terms of creativity and creative work, letting go of the very large part of me that finds pleasure in beating myself up in being critical in being critical under the guise of making myself better. Um, letting go of that person, learning how to change that person into [00:19:00] somebody who is kinder and supportive and encouraging the way I want to parent my children into becoming, you know, better people. It's not through bullying, it's through encouragement and kindness and wisdom. And this is the first time in my life that I've approached myself, um, in that way.

So it's been a, it's been a lot of letting go for me and a lot of growing and acceptance.

Radim Malinic: There is a lot in there. What you just said. There's a

lot. Uh, but no, I really appreciate, I really love the answer because part of me wants to talk about the fact that you said, I want to find that old person. I'm looking for her. You know, I want,

but part of me thinks like, don't do that. Just let, let's go forward.

You know, let's go forward. Because in one of your journals you talked about, um, in one of your journals, you talked about the fact that you've got commit with your daughter and that come is taking a lot longer than you were originally anticipating. And then you find yourself not stressed about the fact that it takes you longer, but then you leaned into it and actually realized that [00:20:00] you really relive in some of really nice bits of your own childhood for your own view.

And I think. When we, when you said, you know, I'm looking for the old person, you're finding somebody new all the time. You're reliving, of course, you, you reliving your childhood through the eyes of your children and you said, oh, may I don't have it now. My day is shorter. You know, and, and of course as any creative person would say, like, I want my day to be as long as possible because you want to do it all the time.

 But speaking from personal experience, my day is totally different to two years, three years ago, five years ago. It's totally changing. It's changing all the time. And the best thing that I've ever found was to actually lean into it. Like lean into the change, see what you can do with it, and actually think about how long it takes to make something valuable.

But how beautiful it's to, to actually have the time to think about it in between. So I just loved how you described that journey. 'cause I mean, you are someone who writes every day and. Just your, the words that you put out there, interest in a form of a newsletter and your books, like, [00:21:00] it just, they just flourish.

They just paint stories. So when you find yourself in that car driving your daughter back, uh, through the, the streets of St. Louis, did you feel like there's a value in letting go? 'cause obviously you wrote a book about it, but did you feel like it's something that is actually nice to experience and, and cherish?

Meera Lee-Patel: Yes. I mean, I, you hit the nail on the head, which is, I say that I, I'm looking for the old me. And the truth of that is that I was not ready to let her go. I was forced to by the circumstances of my new life. And what I think what was so hard about letting her go was that I was not ready and I was not prepared for it.

 And also, there was no time to mourn her or miss her, um, or say, say goodbye, however trite. You know, that may sound, but you're right in that, you know, the only choice we have is to move forward. And so what I have learned about [00:22:00] letting go is that it's not something you can just do. I can't, or at least I cannot just say, okay, I'm letting go of this.

I'm, I'm just moving on the first. Letting go is a byproduct to acceptance. So that's what I've learned. My job is to accept. Where I am, who I am, what is happening right now. And the byproduct of that acceptance is that I will be able to let go. And so when I'm driving my daughter and grimacing that the commute to drop two kids off of school within five miles of my house is an hour and a half.

And I'm mourning the loss of time on my shorter workday. I'm driving and I look at this kid in the back and she's fallen asleep. She's got a strawberry in her mouth. She didn't even finish chewing it. And she's falling asleep now. So tired from school. We're gonna go pick up her sister. And the sun's hitting her face.

And I, I just looked at her and I was like, [00:23:00] man, this kid is so sweet. And it's so quiet in this car. And I am, like you said, writing all the time. I'm writing in my head right now. I'm still doing my writing. It's just in a different form. And I felt so. I felt such pride at being able to be in that moment that I wasn't missing the moment 'cause I was too busy feeling frustrated and focusing on what I thought I had lost.

And that was, that was acceptance of where I am, being in the present, watching the sun through the windshield, looking forward to seeing my younger kid when I walk through the doors. And it brought me back to that, you know, feeling of being picked up by my dad from school falling asleep in the backseat because you knew that someone who cared about you was behind the wheel and you were gonna get home safely.

And I thought, oh, my daughter's asleep. 'cause she feels safe. She feels calm, [00:24:00] she feels relaxed 'cause she knows mom's gonna get her home. And I would not have had any of these thoughts or been able to write that story or even be in that moment, even though I was in my life, I could have not been living my life 'cause I was too focused on the past or what I was missing or what I thought I should have been able to do.

Um, and so that acceptance, it lets me be in the present. It ensures I'm not missing my own life. And what could, you know, what could I want more than that?

Radim Malinic: I mean, what you beautifully describe it is actually focusing on what you can control and let go of what you can control. Because traffic's always gonna happen. The rain's gonna always come, you know, there's always gonna be elements we can't control. Um, but I think having that sort of internal piece and sort of processing and go, like right now I've got actually more time to think about the first draft of what I'm going to write and rewrite it in my head because.

Meera Lee-Patel: Right.

Radim Malinic: The world of creativity, especially when you are young and naive or I'm talking about it, you know, the world at large, you think that you should be making stuff all the [00:25:00] time. You're thinking like, Hey, I, I am, I am. I am creative. Therefore, I should be creating only to realize that stepping away from the process and thinking about the process, observing it, prodding, actually know, almost getting yourself ready for the creative process or for the moments on creativity can be more fulfilling because would you agree that with your sort of daily journaling, you are tuned into the world differently because you wanna remember it, you wanna write it, you analyze it differently rather than just a passing story that's happening past.

Meera Lee-Patel: I do think so, and I think, you know, just like you're saying, you have to live your life in order to make work. And you need to live your life honestly in order to make honest work. So the two go hand in hand, you cannot, um, you cannot just make work 24 7. You have to be in the world. You have to let people in.

You have to, you know, take chances, be uncomfortable. All of that is [00:26:00] part of the work of being an artist. You can't leave that part out.

Radim Malinic: Speaking of books and obviously the new release, what is in the book that I'm, I'm thinking about that not since we talked about the artistic progression and the way, you know, you, you different, I mean, you've been journaling for so long and thinking about books so long. What is in the latest release or what is in the latest, what is in the latest book that is the process of that self-discovery?

Like what is the element that's been added that you wouldn't have thought of about 10 years ago?

Meera Lee-Patel: Oh, that's a really, really wonderful question. I don't know. You know, I might have a disappointing answer because all of my work is propelled forward by the philosophy that the answers that we're looking for, the validation that we're seeking is already inside ourselves. So I don't know if there is any new principle.

I am introducing in this latest release. I think what has changed is probably my expression, my use of language, my ability to create exercises and prompts that a wider audience [00:27:00] can connect with and find useful. Um, and probably also my curation of quotes that, oh, again, a wider audience will find to be encouraging, um, and inspirational that will get them to actually pick up a pen and do the very, you know, cumbersome and often heavy work of, you know, sitting with themselves and talking to themselves.

Um, the principles behind the work are the same, the philosophy is the same. So I think perhaps just my execution as an artist and a writer is what's changed.

Radim Malinic: Um, so you see it wasn't a disappointing answer at all. Um, we got there, but you mentioned exercises and prompts. How so  are these exercises and prompts? Road tested. Do you do them within sort of group setting, workshop setting, or is it something that you actually work on yourself and then just you release it out there?

'cause the reason why I ask, because sometimes you almost feel reluctant that you know that you've got something that you can do and help people. But then you worry about like, am I interfering with their lives too much because I'm actually asking them to sort their shit out. But would they listen to me because the reason why I ask, I wrote a couple of problem solving books only for people to realize that they will never admit they've got problems.

So it was like, oh, how do we do this? Well never write a book. And so try to solve people's problems.

That's my answer. So your exercises and your proms, how are they validated? How, how do you put them together?

Meera Lee-Patel: So they are all exercises and prompts that I use myself to,  uh, unstick myself from [00:28:00] situations that I don't know how to navigate, to work through current dilemmas. Um, you know, so for this book about acceptance and new beginnings and letting go, these are all the exercises that I used to move through this period in my life.

 And as for asking people to do the hard work of looking at themselves, I am always gonna ask people to do that. And I think that might make me a difficult family member. It might make me a hard friend to have, but that is who I am and that is who I will continue to be. But I have also learned to have boundaries and I have also learned to let people be responsible for themselves.

So if somebody is not interested in that work, that's their choice. That's not up to me. And I feel,  uh, no pressure or,  um, [00:29:00] responsibility in, you know, forcing someone to do that. So my job is to make the work that I believe can help somebody. I am very honest in that it might not be right for you, and that's okay with me because I don't think I'm right for everybody.

So certainly everything I make is not gonna be right for everybody, but I believe it can help. I believe my books will add an element of meaning to your life if you choose to let it. And then that's up to you. You know, I make the work, I gotta, and then I have to let go of it. Right. We work, we learned that as artists over and over again.

It stops being yours after you release it.

Radim Malinic: Abso. Absolutely. I mean, especially when you say, you know, let go. The fact is let go of the expectations because sometimes our expectations are way too high and our resilience is sometimes, maybe often not match to those expectations. And therefore we create this, this un unhealthy equation where, un you know, we [00:30:00] think, am I here to help someone?

Because as you said, when you, when you release it and, and in somebody else's, that's the best way of to get basically untethered and just go, yeah, it's out there, it does its own thing. And they will see what comes back because

waiting on something to happen, it will never happen. Whereas if you release it, that's there.

 Um, speak. So speaking of effects of books on people. You mentioned you read from a young age as a form of escapism, an environment that you find yourself in not being the only family that stood out, uh, you know, being of different color in your suburban background. What books do you remember reading and what's the feelings that you remember reading of those books?

Meera Lee-Patel: Hmm. I read a lot of Lois Lowry, the giver number, the stars, and I think the feelings that I remember are of children holding a responsibility that was greater than themselves. And [00:31:00] I think for me as a child, it made me feel that a child, someone as small as me, um, could make a difference, had value, and could oftentimes because. Because our maybe ability as children is often underestimated. Children can very often make a greater difference than grownups because they can get by with more, right? So I had that, those books made a big impact on me as a child. I, you know, I read a lot of, uh, Tintin. I read a lot of comics. I read a lot of Tintin.

I read a lot of asterisks. Um, I read a lot of, you know, Batman, Archie comics, things like that. Comic books. My dad would bring me back from India. I loved simple stories with morals. I loved problem solving. I loved mysteries. And I also loved, you know, I loved books like The Little Prince. I Loved, Loved.[00:32:00] 

Bigger stories, like worlds that you could escape into and stories that felt abstract and maybe you didn't know the meaning, but something about it stuck with you. I felt very drawn to, um, I felt very drawn to stories like The Little Prince and I still am. I, I admire that they grow with you and they change with you as you do.

Radim Malinic: I love that it was a proper eclectic mix. You know, there's a little print and there's a bad man, there's a Tintin, you know, 

but your access to books. So you just mentioned your dad was bringing comics from India, but

Meera Lee-Patel: yeah.

Radim Malinic: what did your parents do? Like what was their sort of relationship to creativity and how did that influence your world?

Meera Lee-Patel: Yeah. I love this question because my parents are so funny. Um, so they both immigrated here in their late twenties. My dad,  uh, is a proper Indian immigrant, is an electrical engineer, and my mom. Was a social worker and they were both creative in different ways. You know, my dad's so handy. He can fix anything.[00:33:00] 

He, you know, rewired our whole house. Like he always repaved the driveway. He built, you know, we would build things together and he was also creative in a way that he will dismiss, which is, you know, in mathematics and physics and in a way that I have never been able to be creative. And my mom is, you know, my mom can sew.

She made my clothes, she made my Halloween costumes. She knits, she crochets. She is very, uh, unbothered with crafting the right way. She does it whatever way she likes. She doesn't care necessarily what the end product looks like. She just enjoys using her hands. And I think I've absorbed a lot of that from her, a lot of like the DIY spirit and a lot of the, um, let's just get started.

And it doesn't matter about doing things the proper way or following the rules, what matters more is actually doing it. [00:34:00] And I, I would definitely say that that, you know, entrepreneurial spirit has come from my upbringing and of watching both parents just do stuff, you know, not wait for the right time or the proper education or the right materials.

Um, and certainly not waiting for enough, you know, money to get started on anything but just doing it. And so I think that's really what lent. Me to starting my own business and making my own stuff and seeing if there was an audience out there. And, you know, I'll never forget, um, when I was still working my full-time job and I wanted to start working for myself as an artist.

I have a little Etsy shop and I would write and illustrate these really odd books. I wish I had copies to send you. Maybe I will reprint and them to you. I made a book. The Rooster and Unicorn and it was a head to toe book. So on one side you, you read it and you read the unicorn story and then you flip it upside down [00:35:00] and you read it and it's the rooster story.

And I would hand buy them and sell them. And every time somebody was willing to buy one of these little $20 hand sew books, I was over the moon, over the moon. And I'll never get that amount of pride and joy. It never, you know, I've sold Start where you has sold over a million copies and that's incredible.

But that feeling of sewing a book by myself and going somewhere in person and selling it like it's unmatched like that was really cool. That was really cool. Yeah.

Radim Malinic: I mean, by the way, congratulations on the achievements. I mean, but. Congratulations on the achievements. When you think about it, that handmade stuff, you posted it basically, you, you had to go and, you know, you, you made it

and you shifted. You know, and I think there's a beautiful way, and I think, and I'm glad to know more about your story 'cause like the indie publishing in a way, like fully indie publishing, you know, like bothering the post office queues with like 22, Brooklyn 22, London 22.

This, like, I've gone through a similar way. I wasn't hand sobbing stuff. But there is something so rewarding because not only your idea that was only in your head at first now exists. You made it, you've got kind of more meaning of the work and then you ship it. And then when the books are in a warehouse and they, you just see a click on your phone that's book sold or you see something, a review from somewhere.

It's like, it's, it's, it's, it's heartwarming but you are not part of it anymore. Like somebody else is handling the other stuff.

Meera Lee-Patel: Yeah.

Radim Malinic: When you were talking about your mom, and this is, this is what made me really very, sort of feel fuzzy inside. It was like you said, she just did things in her own way, and I think it sounded like she never lost her child spirit.

You know, when, when we are creative as children, we've got no filter. We do whatever we want, and then we start thinking, you know, am I fit in the right right mode? Am I doing something for, for the external validation? [00:36:00] And it must have been, I mean, it's, it's really, really great to hear that that's what you got to see.

That's what influenced you and that's what, what, and ultimately made you start your own business. And it does kind of feel like you do what she was doing, you know, like, just like, I'm making this and I don't care if it's right or wrong.

Meera Lee-Patel: yeah. Thank you. I mean, I feel like that's such a beautiful compliment. That means a lot to me. I want to be someone that just does it. Um, and I try to be, and I wanna model that for my girls. You know, you don't have to wait for the right moment. You don't have to wait for the right person or the right tools.

You can just do it because the part that's gonna make, uh, uh, your art different from anybody else's is your brain and your heart and your hands. And you already got those 

Radim Malinic: I think, I think I read somebody's, uh, I think I read somewhere once that the best way to influence your children into doing something is to be actually the role model. Do it 

yourself. Show them, show them how it's done. And I've got a great story from the summer because my daughter has not only started her own shop, she's nine, she's launched her own [00:37:00] Shopify store.

She's got like, she's got iPad with everything. She's taking card payments. She's, she's 

creating Horse Street, uh, because my wife's got equine therapy business as one of her businesses. And you see this 9-year-old child and she's talking about branding, she's designing merchandise, and I'm like. We live in a good breadcrumbs.

She's following them. In fact, she's not overtaking us. She's like thinking about this stuff. So I feel like we live in this juxtaposed world because I think our kids are picking up the real foundation of what could be and what is, and putting together. And then you open the front door, the news, and you go like, how is this 2025?

Like this feels like we are 1918 with 2025 to jump together because it's just like, fuck 

Meera Lee-Patel: I totally Mm-hmm. I totally agree. 

I totally, that's incredible about your daughter. Um, and I would love to know more about your wife's businesses too. You guys seem like an incredibly hands-on creative family. It's really amazing. Yeah. I [00:38:00] feel really proud of your daughter. That's incredible.

Radim Malinic: Yeah. I mean, I mean, she's just runs with it. And then were kind of looking at sort of some sort things that she does. You're like, that's our DNA, you know, you can't. I mean, you can't stop it. And I think I just, I was thinking like if she ever finds herself on a podcast in 20 years time, talking about what she's doing, if she ever says, my parents didn't let me do whatever I wanted to do, that would be a big lie because she'd be just let head destroy the house.

Like

do things, you know, like do all of her stuff. But I think, I think we got a good hindsight that we can do what some of our parents didn't do for us. I think we can actually show that, that as there's other way, there's potentially better way, you know, there's more empathetic, way more compassionate way of like how we can be more emotionally intelligent.

And this is why after the books that you make and are so well received is actually it's showing to someone that potentially what they haven't found yet is actually available. Because sometimes it's. That unfortunate ignorance that people don't know how to fix [00:39:00] themselves. You know, 

people offset their sadness and unhappiness through anger.

And you know, part of what we've seen in the world is obviously unresolved people not resolving themselves. So would you ever say, like with your books, that there is hope that one day we can see a better world? And I don't, I'm be touching on some big topics here, but like, like,

Do you ever find yourself sort of creating a title and going, maybe, you know, this is, this is contributing to something that, um, really should exist?

Meera Lee-Patel: I think it's an interesting question. I'm not sure I have an answer. I do feel that I do believe, you know, I told you that I spent, you know, years feeling like an imposter. I don't, I, this, I think the first time I've ever said this in my life, I don't feel like an imposter anymore. That has been a hard one change, and I do believe that the work that I put out and the books that I make are making a [00:40:00] difference.

And in that way I can say yes. Um, the world is becoming better because I have enough messages from enough people who are doing the work, who are interested in doing the work and who are using the books to know themselves and become more open, more vulnerable, more active participants in their own life.

They're not just letting the world happen to them. They are responding, they're taking action, they're apologizing. So I don't know how I could receive these messages and see people doing the work and say, uh, that the world is not getting better. It is getting better, but is it enough? I mean, I could just read the news and say, no, it's not enough.

 You know, You know, it's not enough. I think in order for the world to truly become better, you have to work on yourself and you have to care [00:41:00] about other people. You have to care about people who are not part of your life, who you will never meet, who will never directly infiltrate your life, who don't look like you, who don't act like you.

You have to find it in you to care, and I think that is the only way. Maybe the world will get better if people care about other people.

Radim Malinic: Beautifully said. Beautifully said. I think I was hearing, I was a interview with Oliver Jeffers who, and they asked him like, why do you keep making books? And he says, well, in the world do you wanna play or do you wanna fight? 'cause I wanna make books for play. Um, and that was beautifully said too because it's 

like, why do we do this?

So as a, as a fellow of someone who writes books, makes books, does all, lots of, lots of, lots of, lots of, the things himself. I want to talk about a practical process. If you, if you allow me, like how do you tackle, you know, the whole book project from planning sketches, which I know you illustrate your books, you create pretty much most of it yourself.

So how does the project, how does a book project, um, start and finish for you? Like, how, what is, what is the process of making a book for you?

Meera Lee-Patel: Um, so it is different depending on the kind of book. So I make three kinds of books. I do journals, I do [00:42:00] illustrated essays, and I do picture books. I'm starting to do picture books, which is very exciting. And so I approach each very mathematically. I'm very type A, um, and the writing for me almost always comes first.

So I write all of the books, the journals, you know, there's a spreadsheet of exercises, there's a spreadsheet of quotes. The art comes the very last, the essays, all of the writing comes first before I can even think about visual visualizations that are going to help explain the material to the reader.

And for the picture books, I also do all of the manuscripts first. And then picture books especially, you want the words to tell a story. You want the illustrations to tell, hopefully, you know, an alternate version of that story. And that is the one that I find to be the most kind of mathematically challenging. Um, the picture book I'm working on right now, I've been working on since [00:43:00] 2022. And it has already gone out to publishers. Once it was rejected by everybody, I rewrote the whole story for the third time. I redid all the pictures for the third time. I am almost done. And we will pitch it again probably in a couple weeks and we'll see. Um, we'll see what happens. But I will tell you the very cool part about this process with the picture book and it being rejected is when it was turned down from the 12 publishers we sent it to, I did not feel despair. I did not feel sadness. I felt I could make it better, and that was very new for me.

And it, I felt very, uh, empowered to have reached a level of confidence where I can expect more from myself and know that I can deliver on that. And the version that we will get ready to pitch now is so much better. Than the one I did before. I feel very proud of him. It's really cool. [00:44:00] It's really cool to know that you can grow, you know you can grow, you can evolve.

You can surprise yourself.

Radim Malinic: I love that. I love that because it's so easy as a creative to fall in love with the first sketch. The first idea, like you don't want to, you don't wanna crop it, you don't wanna rewrite it, you don't wanna do anything. And then in the regular setting, you go clients who tell you, well, this could be better, this could be this.

And, and in that thing and dance, it's not always well articulated who should be doing what and how. So it feels quite disheartening, but when you're trying to express your soul and you're thinking, I've got this, this is great. I don't want to edit this again, we talk about that time coming back to it and going, Hey, actually, you know, well I'm, I'm currently writing myself a book and I've rewritten whole content structure from scratch for about fifth time, even though I thought I had a book clear in my head, like a hundred percent clear, I do the same thing as you.

I wrote in my notes up on my phone, like I've got thousands of words, five different books sketched out. And I go, okay, which one feels right? And I started writing. I was like. No, we go back, we go back and redo it. And you know, in your case, like being, I mean, I can only reject myself. I publish my own books, right?

Because I'm impatient.  Uh, but being rejected, you know, ever since from, since 2012, uh, sorry, ever since 2022 and rewriting the story and, and thinking about it, it's, it's so heart for me to actually know that, you know, even though there's a rejection, it's a good rejection because ultimately the, the final article is so much better.

So it is great to hear it. And did you feel like that sort of almost creative endurance or like that sort of extra passion, the ultra pa sorry, not passion patients, that ultra patients passion? Uh, the ultra patience, it's something that, it's part of going, part of growing older, uh, more patient, more peaceful.

Meera Lee-Patel: That's also a very good question. I think it is part of, for me, it is part of knowing that I'm working on the right thing because it is not important to me to just [00:45:00] put out this work. It is important to me to put out the right work, and this book in particular is so dear to me and is so meaningful to me that I don't mind doing it again and again until it's right.

The part, you know, you, you self-publish. So when you say it's right, it's right. But for me, who's going the traditional publishing route, I have to take an idea and a story that I think is very important and I have to find a medium between my creative work and the audience. And the audience has to be prepared to receive the work that I wanna put out, And that's dictated by the market and sales and et cetera, et cetera. And granted, the general public will never be ready for any work that is a little bit strange or a little bit outside the box, or you know, that's tapping into very sensitive [00:46:00] subjects. And this book is all of those. So I am prepared for that challenge.

But I make books because I want them to be read. I expect them to be read. I expect them to. Uh, put thoughts in people's heads that were not there before. That is my goal. I want people to think, so if I make a book and it sits on a shelf and it isn't bought and nobody reads it, I'm not doing my work. So it is important to me to find that balance between my creative vision and the publisher that is gonna say, yeah, we'll green light this and put it on a shelf, because that's the way it's gonna get into hands.

And so that is a process I think that I've become more patient with.

Radim Malinic: I love when you said that the way you make your books are mathematical. I mean, I believe creativity. I believe creativity is mathematical. I spend most of my creative life in branding and I believe branding is very mathematical. Like you need to have things aligned today. Now they add up to a a result, and with books.

It is a bit like music, you know, like all the sort of the, the micro stops and like the pacing and like the timings. Like how do you put it out there that really matters. And when you said, I've got spreadsheet, I was like, oh yes.

It's all, it's all about spreadsheets. It's all about like, just the thing that make the bookmaking so unglamorous because I think it's still one of the items, one of the articles that we have as humanity that are still sort of a little bit poetic.

That's a little bit like, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's a medium that for some seems almost unattainable. Like, oh, I wish I had a book, or I wish I wrote a book, I wish I did this. And, and I'm sure you get lots of people coming to you like, oh yeah, I wish I wrote a book, but I don't really fancy writing a book.

You know, you're like, okay,

Meera Lee-Patel: yeah,

Radim Malinic: the writing part never gets easier even though you got all, all the systems. But did you teach yourself all of this? Like did you work out a process as you were going on or did you have help with an editor? Like, What you're describing makes perfect sense to me because that's the process, you know, it is, it is not like, oh, I'm gonna sit down and write 75,000 words and then edit it down to 50.

Or like, no one does that and I'm, and I'm, and I'm now, these days I'm actually coaching people how to write their own books. And I want to do, as a consultant, as a consultant editor, but you break it down and say like, almost like write yourself a map. Like, no, you can't just meander and hope something will happen because you will never know what is the shape, because that spreadsheet exists for a reason.

So I'm getting people to use things like Scrivener, like see your book, like see the structure, see what you're doing. And it's a very satisfying work 

because in this process, and I'm gonna quote one of my therapists and she says. Even the best surgeon can't take out their own appendix. And you know, even doesn't matter how many books you write or make, like, it always feels chaotic at first and you almost need someone else to say, please, can you help me to see this from 

another way? So how was your process of learning to make books for you?

Meera Lee-Patel: [00:47:00] It has been self-taught. My editor is wonderful, um, but very hands off. She lets me work in whatever way feels natural to me, and I'm grateful for that. And I'll say that my process for journals and essays has not changed that much over the years at all. It's still a Word doc. It is still Excel spreadsheets for organization.

 I make an outline. I follow the map that I create for myself. I reshape it if necessary, but I am, I like to do all the thinking upfront. So the outline like that is the heavy lifting. That's where I'm coming up with all the concepts, making sure that there's an arc, making sure there's a start and a finish.

And once I've done all of those roadblocks, I find the map and the actual writing part to be a lot easier because I have a guide, like you said. So I, I use that and that is still the way I work. Um, you know, creative writing, like what I do for my newsletters, that's very different. That is way more [00:48:00] free-spirited.

And, you know, it's also a shorter timeframe. It, it is dependent on what I experience that week. So that kind of journaling, um, is more of, I spit it all out and then I go back and edit and shape it. And I make sure that it makes sense to somebody who did not share that experience with me. But for books, I need the spreadsheet, I need the organization.

 And those two things are not only, they don't always only serve as the backbone of the book for me, but they also serve as motivation for me. Because I can see the ending, I can see the beginning and the end, and as I check off each section, I know I'm making progress. And that is very gratifying, especially when you're writing like your second, third draft, right?

And you're kind maybe sometimes a little bit checked out and is this gonna keep going on forever? And you already have ideas for your next project that you are to work on? You gotta finish this one first. Um, so it holds me accountable.

Radim Malinic: Do you, do you ever have a sort of set [00:49:00] pagination that you have to work to like a certain number of pages, or do you just sort of make a book and it's the number it is obviously within the right multiples of eight or 16. How does that 

Meera Lee-Patel: do. 

Radim Malinic: your work?

Meera Lee-Patel: I have set Paginations for all my books. All of the journals are a certain amount of pages. The books, the essays are a certain amount of pages. The picture books are all 32 or 40. Um, so it actually very much informs the book and the manuscript and how much time, how many words I can spend on any one thought or idea.

Um, for my last, for how it feels to find yourself, which was a book of illustrated essays. It was very restrictive because they were micro essays. You know, each one had to be less than I think 400 words, and I cut out so much that I felt attached to. Um, but in hindsight. I learned the art of brevity, which I think is very important.

It forces you to [00:50:00] clarify thought. It forces you to kill your darlings and to understand that three sentences can be one. So I do think that that book as an exercise made me a stronger writer. Sometimes those restrictions, you know, they feel challenging and frustrating in the moment, but you always grow from them.

Radim Malinic: Do you, I mean, I love, I love what you said because I've got, sorry, I need to cough. I love what you said because from my experience, I'm a non-native English speaker and I'm rebelling in amazing opportunity to actually be making books in English. I love it. But I know that whatever I've write will always need an editor, you know?

And I've worked with three different editors in my last six books, and one of them is super cutthroat, and I'm like, where's my jokes? Where's this, where's that? And I'm like, I'm like, this is my writing. Well, where's all the fun stuff? Where is this? And when it comes out, I never, sorry, I never really.

Moaned anything that didn't make it. I was like, I can keep the city jokes for my talks or for my launches or whatever. I can do that. But  as you said, you know, kill your darlings. The out of brevity is, is exactly what it is because I get [00:51:00] people then coming to me like, it's really, well have you just say the no, no, you have, you just say what you just need to say in, in as few words as possible.

I was like, 

I've got a really good editor

Meera Lee-Patel: yeah.

yeah, 

Radim Malinic: because you, I mean, because I have never had in this type of work, because I just expected, you know, not to be exactly what I can create. Not, um, because with this type of work, I'm not in charge fully. You know, like I, I let go and I pass it on because I sometimes need people to sort out my mess.

And when it comes to the topic of like learning to let go, I never felt any form of perfectionism with book writing or book publishing because like, 'cause you said we are gonna publish it when it's right. I publish books when I decide it needs to be published. So I set myself a deadline, I announce the book, and we've got nine months.

It's like a race is on, like, and it has to happen because I think that's the best antidote to procrastination

Meera Lee-Patel: Right 

Radim Malinic: and public accountability. So I, I just love that you said like, you know, the micro, micro essays, you know, you can say to note three sentences in one.

Meera Lee-Patel: Yeah, it's a good challenge. And do you know, I have found that all, it also clarifies thought, you know, the more you distill your writing and [00:52:00] practice saying more with less, you find that your thoughts are less cluttered because you're learning to think more cleanly. You're learning to focus. Um. You know, I think writing clarifies thoughts and thoughts are clarified by writing.

They both work hand in hand.

Radim Malinic: I love it. I love it. Um. I need to ask a question. I need to let you go at some point. Um, I wanna try to rephrase my original question. And again, that's influenced by what you say in your newsletter a year from now. Here are five things from this week I would like to remember, right? I'm gonna rephrase it a book from now.

What are the five things you want to remember from this book that you just published? What are the, I mean, again, it doesn't have to be five, I mean, I'm using your number, but a book from now, uh, whatever you had in with your children's book or your new next essay. What was the one thing that you've learned about this book that showed you something new about yourself and the process?

Meera Lee-Patel: I might have a couple things, if that's okay.

Radim Malinic: You can have as many as you want.

Meera Lee-Patel: Okay. So the number one, which I, I think I mentioned already, is that letting go is a [00:53:00] byproduct of acceptance. That is the number one thing I learned while, while writing this book. Um, you cannot let go without accepting what is this. Second is that it's okay to become somebody new. It's okay to let parts of myself go so that new parts of myself can bloom. And the third is not to live from a place of desperation. And what I mean by that is not to hold on so tightly because I think this will never be again, something new is always coming. Something greater is always coming. And it reminds me,  um, it reminds me of a John Steinbeck quote that I love, which I, I probably will misremember right now. But it's, um, it's it's something like, if it's right, [00:54:00] it will happen.

Nothing good gets away. And I feel like that sentiment really sums up acceptance and letting go. And the, the period of my life that this book came from, feeling like I had lost so much. But the truth was that it was all building and I just couldn't see it yet. And that's okay. You're not always gonna see it.

You just have to accept and believe that you know, if it's good. It's not gonna get away. It's gonna come.

Radim Malinic: I remember somebody once told me as I was writing notes from the conversation, she says, don't write any notes. Would you remember? You remember the right stuff will stick. And I'm like, that's true. That's very true. But I, I love that you said, you know, it's okay to become somebody new because the new is coming.

 And I realized when I asked this question, it's a little bit unfair because I know that the true meaning of the work, especially publishing work, comes with time. You know, things make more sense when you, I mean, you publish them and people react with them, and then you've got time to reflect because, you know, making a book is, as we now know, mathematical chaotic.

Meera Lee-Patel: yeah,

Radim Malinic: It's, it's a big process. And then when it does settles, you're like, now I can reflect on this. I've got [00:55:00] time to actually reflect and see it back. So, um, I will ask you year, year from now the same question and, and see what you've learned, uh,

about that process and about from that book. But, um, I'll celebrate you what you're doing.

I've been, as I said, I've been following you. I've been following your work from, from afar for the last seven years and. Yeah, it's amazing that you keep going, how you do it, how you created a career, you know, being inspired by your parents to be entrepreneurial, starting your business, sticking with it, being a parent in a broken world, you know, it's, it's all that that we need to have and see.

And I thank you for your work because it's wonderful. And yeah, I'm looking forward to your next newsletter in my inbox.

Meera Lee-Patel: Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. This conversation has been definitely the highlight of my day. Thanks for having me.

Radim Malinic: You very welcome. Thank you. Thank you for listening to this episode of Daring Creativity [00:56:00] Podcast. I'd love to know your thoughts, questions, and suggestions, so please get in touch via the show notes. So please get in touch via the email, in the show notes or social channels. This episode was produced and presented by me. Rad Malid.

The audio production was done by Neil Mackay from 7 million Bucks Podcast. Thank you and I hope to see you on the next episode.