Mel Castan is a Mexico City-born, Barcelona-based animator, illustrator, and community builder whose creative journey has taken her from advertising school to motion graphics to founding two community projects for creatives. ~

She talks with Radim about growing up in a military family with a spiritual streak, discovering illustration as a meditative practice, and building spaces where creatives can process burnout, imposter syndrome, and identity beyond the usual networking event.

Takeaways

• Mel is a Mexico City-born, Barcelona-based animator, illustrator, and producer who's spent nine years building a career across advertising, motion design, and community-building
• Growing up in a military family — her grandfather a retired army general who turned to spirituality after retiring — shaped her comfort holding contradictions together
• She describes creativity as a lifelong practice tied to her ADHD, and drawing as a meditative practice since childhood
• A mapping show by Amon Tobin reshaped her sense of what creative work could be and pulled her toward studying motion graphics in Barcelona
• She spent her first days in Barcelona intentionally getting lost in the Gothic Quarter, without a phone or map, as her way of learning the city
• She co-founded Frames by Friends, a five-year community for Barcelona's animators and motion designers that grew from an expected 20 people to 75 at its first event
• Her current project, Side Project, builds spaces — Honest Conversations and Work in Progress — for creatives to process burnout, imposter syndrome, and identity beyond networking
• She describes "vicarious learning" — the idea that sharing our struggles with others makes them feel lighter and less isolating
• Her guiding philosophy is that ideas have home, and her role is to be that home for others
• She's letting Side Project's future shape itself without attachment to a fixed outcome, trusting that showing up consistently will reveal the next step

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Mel: I do agree. that's exactly what I unintentionally created. I've been wanting not create a physical home for people that, uh, want to share their ideas, but as well as a person, embody somebody that can be a home for people to share their ideas, their paths and the stuff they feel most afraid of sharing or feeling that they don't belong.

So I've created in myself a space where I feel that my creativity belongs, and if I can create that feeling towards others, that makes me feel so, fulfilled and that I have a path still in progress. ​

Radim: Welcome to Daring Forever, a podcast about being human, wired for wonder, capable of courage, perpetually becoming. It's about the waves that knock us under and the strange stubborn grace with which we surface. My name is Ryan Mallenich. I'm an author, creative, and an eternally curious human being on a mission to speak to incredible people whom I call forever daring humans, those in pursuit of an extraordinary life.

Every week, I share an interview that is packed with amazing stories, value, and I can only ask you, how will you dare forever? This podcast is inspired by my upcoming book titled Daring Forever, which is now available for pre-order out in October

​

My guest today once got lost in Barcelona's Gothic Quarter with no map and no phone, and yet she's come out with a life philosophy. Mel Castan is a Mexico City-born animator, illustrator, and a community builder who spent most of the last decade building a career and a home for others.

 In this conversation, we talk about growing up with retired army general grandfather turned into spiritual seeker, her ADHD as a source of creative obsession, and many experiences that changed her path. We get behind-the-scenes information on her community building for fellow animators and her second space for creative wellbeing beyond networking.

 All point to one simple direction. Dare to let ideas have a home." 

It's my pleasure to share with you my conversation with Mel Castan​

Radim: Hello, Mel. Welcome to Daring Forever. How are you doing today? 

Mel: Very good, Rutem. Thank you so much for inviting me to be here with you. 

Radim: You're most welcome. be exciting to talk to you because I've been following your journey for the last few years since I got to meet you and your journey is fascinating, and I believe, in my opinion, you're one of the people who lives the Daring Forever life.

And Daring Forever doesn't always necessarily mean that you're doing something crazy or risky or, you silly. it's about pursuing the things that you otherwise regret never starting. So for those who have may not heard of Mel Castan, who are you, what do you do, and how would you introduce yourself? 

Mel: This might sound a little bit chaotic, but I'm Mel. I am from Mexico City. I started my creative journey by working in advertising and studying advertising in Mexico City, working in several agencies, startup studios different sectors that I just really wanted to explore.

 And after a few years, I ended up, uh, moving to Barcelona to study my master's in animation, motion graphics by trying to figure out if I could maybe work in mapping. I just wanted to do something more experimental. So yeah, for now, I've been living nine years in Barcelona, figuring out different areas.

I didn't end up working in, mapping at the end. I did explore it but my journey has taken me to, different places. So has been interesting. 

Radim: Before we rewind it back to Mexico City, what is the type of work that you do now? 

Mel: So right now I am a little bit of Jack of all trades, yes. I work as an animator, an illustrator, a little bit of production, event production. So I have a full-time job, but at the same time some freelances and some opportunities to work in different type of projects that are quite interesting. so yes.

Radim: Would you say you're a bit of a specialist generalist, kind of looking at all the interest of what it, where it can take you? 

Mel: Yeah. I guess that this is part of-- and I wanted to mention this at some point, but this is part of, like, ADHD people, that we really want to delve into different interests, and we have so many things that we are curious about that we just can't leave them apart.

So I have so many interests and so many little things that I really love just go into, Like, super deep. So yeah, that made me a generalist, I think. 

Radim: Yeah, ' there's something about ADHD. I've-- And I think I've seen a word that somebody used with ADHD, and they said it's an obsession.

Like, when you want to do something, you're obsessed about it so relentlessly that you go after it. And I think the more I think about all the previous guests and all the future guests, we are really potentially 99% of us bound by this obsession about for what we want to do and how we want to do it.

Before we go to your work now, I really wanna take you back to Mexico City because I was thinking about you as a guest on this show, and then I realized that a few weeks ago I interviewed Pablo Maríncon, who is from Mexico City, lives in Madrid. Had a similar story to yours, you know, came to study and never left, you know, stayed in Madrid ever since.

And in your case, obviously you went to Barcelona to study motion and never left. And I wanna know, what you brought with you. what was your upbringing, the introduction to creativity? when did you realize that creative obsession is a thing? 

Mel: The creative obsession has been there since forever.

I think since I'm, three years old, I've been a very avid drawer since I'm really, like, young, and that's actually something that I picked up lately. But I just knew that I was going to be in the creative field since I was, like, uh, maybe eight years old. I just didn't know how. all my family thought that I was going to enter, proper art school because I really loved to draw and illustrate, but I thought that maybe advertising would have different options for me either in radio, TV, or I don't know.

It just seemed exciting back then, and ended up exploring that side just to have, a nice introduction to different worlds and different disciplines, well, do you remember being surrounded when you were growing up? Because obviously Mexico City is a vibrant place, and your idea of exploring advertising must have come from something.

Radim: Was How did you find your way to it? Because doesn't seem always that straightforward because you either like consumerism, you like brands, or you like creativity. What was your angle onto it? 

Mel: Can I be super honest? My grandma just found the school, and she was like, " Maybe this is interesting for you."

 She took me there. my family has always they have always pushed me to explore different things. They always supported me when it comes to me being, artistic or creative. So when she saw this, I think it was even magazine that she saw this university, and she was like, " You should check this.

It sounds interesting for you. Why don't we go?" And as soon as I entered the school, and I took, like, I don't know, a first introduction class for my career, I was like, "Yeah, this is it. Let's do it. Sounds fun." 

Radim: Do you remember the feeling? Do you remember, like, when you felt with that first introduction?

Like, did you have that sort full body sensation going, "Yeah. Thanks, Grandma. You found me"? 

Mel: Yeah. I think that's how we creatives have, like, this intuition that is just there, right? Like, it's, this is it. It sounds fun. It seems like I would have a lot of options to explore, and basically I have fun in this while studying this.

Radim: Tell me about a family push because known where your future might lie. Uh, were you surrounded is hilarious. Uh, so I

 come from

Mel: a military family actually. So I was the first creative on my family. I broke the pattern and gave them a, few headaches of course, because they didn't know that, me being a rebel or creative in the family was going to be easy. But yeah, my, my grandpa is a retired general of the army in Mexico City.

He was in the army for 40 years. He retired exactly when I was born, at 40, and then they started spiritual journey So it was very interesting because I grew up with them, basically grew trying to figure out what spiritual journey. They just changed their lives completely. So the first few years of my life was me joining them to an ashram in Mexico, Sai Baba, or maybe to the Tibet House to meditate or maybe to Hermetism classes or Dianetics even.

Like, we- they explored everything, and I just joined them. So I observed not just the discipline of my grandpa, but as well a lot of the spiritual base with them. So that's quite interesting. 

Radim: That is fascinating that you've got a retired army general going to, you meditate in a Buddhist temple. I mean, this is...

 would you reckon that it happened at the right time for them and for you that they've changed the course of their careers or their change of lives because obviously they potentially had to start being open and absorbing to more different elements, right? 

Mel: Yeah, could be. I don't know if it, this is astrology thing, but as a Pisces arriving to a family that is so square, uh, just all the family changing and turning to spirituality it's crazy. So all the family ended up-- we in Reiki, then we ended up studying Kabbalah. Still Kabbalists, all of us. So it's something that just ties us and keeps us together, like studying all th- this stuff.

So we go quite deep into conversations about life in general, and I grew up with that depth. So I love it. Yeah. 

Radim: Do you remember any of your first creative pursuits? Do you remember exploring creativity? Did it-- Was it physical? Was it more spiritual?

Ho- how how did it come about mostly before you entered the, uh, first advertising course? What was the dots that led you there? What was the steps? 

Mel: I guess that the first really creative pursue was for me to just go really deep into drawing or illustration.

For me, it's a it's a way of meditating basically. So I think that there's a lot of beauty in the devotion you can have when you love to do something where you, time just disappears, and it not only becomes work, but in my case it became even a spiritual practice. Just go really deep into it.

 And actually I was like, "I don't need meditation. I just need to, start drawing, start with charcoal, start with pencil, and just go really deep into the details." And that's when I find myself really in peace with the world, I think, and myself. 

Radim: I love it. It's absolutely fascinating ' cause we can draw the line between, you know, a retired army general granddad who's been on pursue of spiritual journey, and then obviously comes to you where to see illustration and to see creativity as meditative practice when time disappears, that's a gift.

when you think of commercial creativity, you it still can be meditative, can be creative, so it can be fun. But most of the time if you don't look after yourself, you can allow yourself to be stressed by it because there's time. People have no money involved. Like, constraints, all of that kind of happens and you're thinking is this still meditative?

But we'll get to that a little bit later because I think it gives me a better idea of what I know about you, what you do you know, for community pursuits and from work. This is really nice intro to, to what let's leads us to it. So let's go back to that advertising course when you walked in and you find yourself at home.

What did it feel like to kind of have the progress of, of, taking your beautifully spiritual, meditative approach to creativity and then be faced with advertising, which, let's be honest, is not always that spiritual or soulful? 

Mel: No. It seems that it's exactly the opposite, right? it seems like, this world that seems more materialistic is not really connected.

 But I guess that some people will just find their ways to actually apply this creativity anywhere independently of what's the outcome or where it's gonna be shown. So I just found myself being really good at conceptualizing stuff. I was having a lot of fun, and advertising showed me the path where I was, thriving.

 So I started in university getting a nice Ibero-American prize winning awards and And that took me to my first agency job as as an intern This is funny, but I, I really wanted to connect it with working with people. I think I always wanted to work with people, even though I was working with advertising And this first agency was a social agency called Vago Despierta, where we were working with people. Basically, it was a social advertising agency, so we were working with the government, with people, with all type of social projects that really would light me up and be like, "Yeah, this is what I wanna do.

This is how I wanna use my creativity." 

Radim: You're one of these people that comes across so beautifully comfortable in your solace and in your company, but everything that you do is with others, for others. I mean, this is in- incredible in that way because what you put out in the world it is almost reliant on the others.

You know, you created a community for, people in Barcelona animators, filmmakers, illustrators. You know, that Sometimes p- when I come across people like yourself, they'll be like, "Okay, I'm very happy on my own, and this is my solace. This is my, you comfortable space."

 And I just don't venture out too much, Whereas what I'm getting from your story so far is that you've mixed in the spiritual, the meditative, the self-exploratory with advertising and realizing there's something in the middle of it all, right? Because when you find yourself moving to Barcelona, was that a shock to the system?

How did it work for you? 

Mel: It was It was a very quick decision. Before coming here, I tried to move to Oslo, lived there for a couple months, realized that the weather was not something that I was really enjoying. Went back to Mexico after leaving a job that I really wanted, after selling my car, leaving my cat and everything, and I realized that I needed to take a decision for my next step.

So I made a list with one of my good friends. She told me, "Okay, you need, to figure out what you wanna do next," because I was quite down. And I was like, " Okay, this might seem delusional, but I really want to keep on studying. I'm still curious about what's next when it comes to my career.

 So I want to study motion graphics. Let's see. Let's see how it goes." So I came to Barcelona with that idea without even knowing the city, knowing where Barcelona was in the map. I just found the school, got a loan, and just moved here. 

Radim: Before we talk about that, I really wanna know what else was on your list because Barcelona must have featured once, but do you remember what else was on your list?

Mel: I don't. I went, hyper-focused into that one. There were other two options. It was three things, but I definitely don't remember what was the I think there's something about If you believe in ADHD, I think that, I option always shows itself and is non-negotiable.

Radim: that one. Why? Don't ask me questions. Why? That one. Why? Can't give you answers. It's that one. ' fully understand 'cause I did something similar when I was 21. I was like, "I'm moving to England." Why? Don't ask, I'm moving. We'll work out the rest. so you found yourself obviously wanting to study motion and animation.

 You're in Barcelona. What was it like? the city's fascinating. I love Barcelona, but was it like for you? 'Cause I remember moving to England, and I felt like for the first few years, it felt like living in a movie for a bit, cause everything's new. Everything smells different, everything tastes different, sounds different.

 What was it like for you to have a change of scenery? the language was different or similar. I'm not sure how much differences are between Mexican Spanish, and Spanish. But what was it like for you when you find yourself, you know, on the other side of the world almost and starting a new life?

Mel: It's funny. It felt like home right away somehow. At the same time, same, like in a movie. You arrive to a super vibrant city that has this enormous hub of artists and people working creative fields. So it felt so bohemian until the day. Like, I just feel that I'm living a dream, and I'm romanticizing my life nonstop.

that's fantastic. I think there's a lot of luck in doing that. Wasn't quite a shock, but definitely interesting not something hard to get adapted to, I just felt that I was in the right spot, and I always felt that creativity has this thing, or maybe HD, I don't know exactly what it is.

But when you know that it's there, something just pulls you forward. You don't think about the past. You just know that you have to be there, that there's something there for you, and the next thing just pulls you forward towards something bigger or The place where you should be, I think.

Radim: Do you remember that sort physical feeling when you, arrived in Barcelona? And it might have ta- I don't know how long it might have taken you, but everyone has that moment when they made a change, and then there's, like, one pivotal moment, like, one moment when just you have this physical feeling going, " Yeah, that was a good choice."

Do you did you have anything like that? 

Mel: Probably yes, and maybe it was, this was a whole day feeling. I started walking around the Born and Gothic in the center of the city, for three days I would just get lost. No map, no mobile, and just be like, " I'm gonna figure out and I will learn this city," like the palm of my hand.

 So that was the way for me to physically actually get into it, go deep, and figure out by being, like, in the center of a city without any connection or way of connecting myself. Because I didn't even have a, a mobile connected to the Wi-Fi back then. I didn't have a SIM card, so I was like, "Okay, this is how I'm gonna learn.

I just gonna get right into the Gothic, try to figure out all these little cute streets, and walk until I know where I am." 

Radim: I'm really glad I asked you that question because I absolutely love the answer. know, getting yourself lost for three days. Hopefully you made it home every single day.

 not working for three days solid. 

Mel: It's a very small area. It's not that crazy. 

Radim: there's something absolutely magical about that part of Barcelona because I've been going there for the last 11 years, and I always seem to just hyper-focus on certain area. 

And it I think every city is really lucky to have different pockets of excitement and a different pocket of energy because, you know, some people prefer Poblenou, some people pr- prefer Born, some people prefer oth- other places. And when you just micro sample them in really intense way, it just gives you a totally different feeling.

So I can just about imagine what it might have feel like for you to f- to spend three days walking around and getting yourself lost. It's really, really good. I like that. You talked about a lot of creativity. Uh, you talked about the feeling of it and, and the expression. When you have the idea of creativity, when you say, like, you started with illustration and found quite meditative, how did you take on the identity of a creative?

When did you feel that, Was it after you studied? Did you s- after you started freelancing? Like, at what point did you feel like, "I am creative and this is my title"? 

Mel: I think that, someone with ADHD, we don't all the time tell ourselves that we are creative, right? Like, uh, there's sometimes this small maybe self-sabotage or little, uh, imposter syndrome that tells us, " Yeah, are you?

Are you really," But at the end, if I look backwards, I realize that everything that I've done in my life is creative. It not necessarily has to do something with arts or this sector in general. The way we solve problems, the way we figure out life in general is, creativity.

 So in my case, I've realized that creativity is a way of processing life, not just the way we work. It's the way we process, the way we understand life, that's creative per se. 

Radim: That's a really nice way to put it. Creativity is us processing life because- Every change comes with ups and come, comes with downs.

You know, you can get easily lost for three days, and that's your own choice. But did you face any adversity or challenges when you moved to Barcelona? Because Everything comes with its own challenges. So did you have your own? That's how people, you process creativity as a, you process in life. 

Mel: Yeah, absolutely. I guess that a bunch of challenges, if I'm super honest. Like right now I'm going through a challenge. I have to move apartments, and I have to figure out life again.

In my brain, I was like, "Okay, how am I gonna take this news? Am I gonna jump into it by being like, 'Oh, I don't know how to solve it,' or by actually being creative and take it as if this was my choice to move forward?" So I think that's the best approach. Uh, and being creative is part of it. It's like, how am I gonna approach life?

 I'm just gonna be delusional and think that I actually chose this. So my brain, I trick my brain into thinking that this was an election that's gonna have the best outcome out there. So creativity has a lot to do, I think, with how we think and how we, approach life and how the scenarios that we put ourselves into.

Radim: That's really interesting because to quote a fellow, I think the word Barcelonian or fellow, you a resident of Barcelona, Pablo Juncadella, who once said that as a creative, you know, unless someone's got a problem, you haven't got to work. You have to solve someone's problem, right? ' Cause what we do as creatives, we need to solve, especially commercial creatives, you need to solve someone's problem.

 And in your case, when you say like reframing the situation, if, you treat it as a project or something that's got no start and finish It is, again, processing life in a different way because you can easily allow yourself as a human to say, "Well, it-- the life is happening to me, therefore, I need to deal with it as it comes."

Or you can be always two steps ahead thinking, "Well, this has happened before. Maybe I can just reframe the way I can, no, cognitively process this," and actually say, you know, "Well, everything's possible." Because ultimately, when you think you can almost choose your own problems.

Whereas with creative work, you know, you have to accept other people's problems, and then you might be like, "Okay, this is not my problem. I still have to solve it because I'm getting paid for it." Whereas with life, you're like, " Okay, it's happening. Let's solve it," right? 

Mel: Yeah, exactly. Just like that. I, I recently saw an image that said I know that the uncertain is coming towards me, but the uncertain knows that I'm going towards the uncertain." You know? Like it's me going towards the uncertain, and that's the approach that I like to have. 

Radim: I think, I mean, yeah, when you think about it and, and best defense is to play offense.

You this is actually when you go actively into facing it. I think that makes sense. Was there any inspirations in your early careers or anything that you were aspiring to be as good as or type of work that you wanted to create? Like When you say creativity is processing life, but was there anything that was giving you the inspiration visually, creatively, philosophically that you wanted to emulate in your early career or now maybe?

Probably, I think that as well fun is a spiritual percent. stuff that make me feel something. That was something that I, I just wanted to explore. So for example, when I came here to Barcelona, I was so into mapping because I saw this beautiful, like, mapping show from Amon Tobin this Brazilian artist.

He's fantastic, just really intense techno, and I saw this amazing show made with cubes. Back then, I think it was 2012 or '11, I don't know. And then I, I saw that the producer, like how it was made, and I just got so inspired and I was like, "Wow, I wanna be like her.

I wanna do this type of work. I wanna do this, amazing setups and, mapping." So I guess that I find references everywhere of where I would like to be, but not only about the work, but, what type of person I want to embody in the future, because that's part of being creative, right? Like, we are building ourselves as we move forward through life.

So yeah. 

 That is such an incredible reference because I was a fan of Amon Tobin from about 1995 when he did his first album, Bricolage, which was more down tempo drum and bass and ninja tune, and then what you referenced, I, haven't thought about that show for, 14 years. But as soon as you said the cubes, I was like, "Oh, I remember that."

I haven't seen it live, but I remember it, it being extensively talked about and I'm just looking it up right now, and it's so iconic and so im- immersive and impressive that he's changed a little bit. But as you said, like you wanted creativity to be something that makes you feel something.

Mel: Yeah. I, I, had the luck of going to that show. Like, after a couple years he went to Mexico City, same show, and I was like, "I'm going." And I remember I had a broken ankle, so I went with my crutches I'm gonna see this show. I don't care." And it was just fantastic. So I guess that there are just artists and pieces and stuff out there that can really start something in you, and w- when we go towards- Those things that makes us curious, we can totally change our lives.

So that was just one show, right? Like, or one, idea, and it changed my perspective, and I was like, "That's it. That's what I'm gonna do. I'm just gonna go all in," right? 

Radim: It's incredible 'cause when you think about what they did with that particular show, and I, encourage listeners to actually look it up, and I think it's called ISAM Live just to see the visuals online.

To me, that's the personification or the embodiment of daring forever. just daring forever is obviously a little more philosophical about the fact, like, how I want the people to, to pursue their careers from, you know, permission to acceptance to curiosity and gratitude.

But all of this starts with that, you know, what you just beautifully described earlier, like, with that moment of like, "I want this now. I'm gonna work out how." Because when you accept yourself in the process, you realize this is what I'm creating within the constraints that I've got, and I can go on a journey of curiosity to actually explore wider possibilities.

Because daring in itself is not necessarily about, you know, being silly, jumping out of planes, and doing things that are sort of reckless. It's more about systemic way of pursuing the idea of if they did it, it must be possible for me to do it. You know, as you said, "I've seen a producer.

I want to embody her," because we get different signals from the universe that tell us, you know, how we can discover who we are, what's our personality, what's our, you obsession, or what's our sort of curiosity, like how we can put it all together. So in your case, I love the fact that it wasn't particularly a piece of work that was, you know, static or it was something.

It was so immersive and so big because it now makes more sense for me to understand what you do now with your work because it brings stuff to people and makes them feel something, and I think that's an incredible career path. So 

tell me, what was it like to get the sense of identity when you move countries?

What was that like? You was it creative identity, personal identity? How did that embody itself? 

Mel: I think that part we change so much and there's a lot of possibility when we change identities, right? Like, when we made big changes in our lives. So, when coming here and making your identity being so moldable in a big transition moment, I think that's the part that has more potential to do whatever you want.

So I, I love that, part in general of figuring out life and being creative. Like, when you have big transitions, you have all the potential to change paths completely and take, drastic decisions probably that will take you right where you should be, 

Radim: something there's something about creative identity being so rewarding because it's not something someone gives you. It's something that you create for yourself. And I think that's the part where no one can take away from you because if you apply for a job, you're gonna be doing something that's defined by somebody else.

Okay, you bring yourself and your skill set, but, it's the element of creating your identity based on curiosity where it takes you. I think potentially, especially with the ADHD in the mix, you can almost reimagine who you are and what you want to be as often as you want to really, right?

Would you agree? 

Mel: Totally. I guess for me, like puzzles the essence of yourself, keep that and say, "Okay, if I just keep the essence and move forward, what's gonna match this essence?"

And I think It's just great having that potential or those moments where, uh, your identity as, creative change and evolves. 

Radim: Sense of identity really neatly brings us onto the sense of community because obviously you find yourself in Barcelona, obviously you're meeting new people, you're starting a new life.

 and obviously meeting new communities and new subsets and new identities. You know? That been self-made sometimes. you created a community called Frames by Friends, and you call it as a hub for motion designers and animators in Barcelona. When I met you a couple years ago, you were very much deep into it, kind creating it and putting yourself in a leadership role or kind guiding role of getting people together because it's not always easy to be guiding creative people because they're not always the most social bunch, right?

They're not always the people who want to be out there connecting because, yes, we long for the connection, but we don't always go and get it. So where did the idea come from, and tell me how does how has it been going to make it work? 

Mel: So yeah, Frame Story Friends basically just started with three friends when we were doing our masters.

And we just wanted to do gathers with some people that we knew. So it's like, "Oh, let's start this, gather. Let's do this first thing." We worked with a gallery as collaborators, and I was like, "Okay, we're gonna expect just 20 people." And suddenly 75 people just appeared there, and we realized there was a big need for creatives and mostly animators and motion designers in general to connect.

So , okay, we have something here. Let's keep on going. And this project kept on going for five years. It went great. We started working with BAU, the university here in Barcelona, doing talks, two talks a year with speakers and people from the community. Not only, people with big expertise, but people that could actually tell their own stories, how they work, their challenges it was a great project.

Radim: It's incredible. When I think of creativity, if you haven't got your self-acceptance worked out, if you're early in your career, sometimes the world of creativity, especially commercial creativity, can be a little bit confusing, disorientating, because you try to make sure you got enough work. sometimes you might be challenged by someone else's, people's successes.

You don't always celebrate it because you feel you may have deserved to have it. So what I want to know, what was spirit of community and acceptance between all of the members and people who showed up? Because it's easy to worry that you haven't got enough work. It's easy to worry that you're potentially not as good as other people.

But how did people find themselves within a community that it provided for safe space, nourishing space? What was that like? 

Mel: I just found people connecting with each other in a more human way, like from a more maybe authentic way where all realized that we were always having, challenges and setbacks, and it was not as easy as it shows sometimes when you see successful either artists or creatives in the industry.

 So having this, let's say, body doubling helped a lot for people to realize, "Hey, we're all in the same path. We're figuring it out, but we don't have to figure out alone." So yeah, as you say, as creative, sometimes we do feel a li- a little isolated, but connections really helps us open our mind and realize that we can grow together.

We can actually learn from each other. And it's as well a way of, processing life in general. It's not only by being creative, but it's as well through the relationships and the meaningful relationships we make with other people are just as creative as us.

They just have, like, these great ideas and, desires of express themselves. So when we connect with these people, we just find our people or our tribe. 

Radim: what you said quite beautifully, you said that you've seen lots of meaningful relationships blossom through the community, and I think there's nothing more unifying than actually talking about universal setbacks, like how we all work, how we all struggle, how we all sort break the same, how we all can win the same, but we can learn from one another.

What have you learned through the community about yourself? Was there something that you realized that it created a platform for you to find out more about your setbacks or meaningful relationships? 

Mel: It did. I've realized first, uh, just by finding other people that just like me actually allowed me to, feel more confident in whatever that I'm doing.

That's the thing that it gave me the most. I realized that maybe these crazy ideas that I had when I was a kid, they actually do have home and other people that are recognizing them like, "Wow, this is so cool." So I, I just love connecting with other people that have the same mindset of creating nonstop and this imagination and artistic side as well.

 It's lovely to be with people that have this artistic side because it's the people that I found out to be more human and connected to themselves. So I found that part quite beautiful. 

Radim: Running a community, I always, celebrate people who put on festivals, events, communities, dinners, panels, anything.

Because in my opinion, they're always unsung heroes because it's easy. this is from my personal objective, right? I have started doing community stuff because I wanted to bring people together for particular reason. And whilst doing so, whilst you're really trying to convince people that, "Hey, look, I'm doing something really interesting, you need to come out," and it's only happening a few times a year, you need to come out.

 Not everyone's always available, and you really want them to be there 'cause really care about their experiences. And then you go, you know what? I said a lot of hard work for like one evening to get 20, 30 people in the room. It takes a lot of time, right? You'd be like, "Oh," and then you realize some people bring 5,000 people together or even more.

 it's always work where, you do something, you create something or you can see organizers putting on these amazing festivals. And then somebody shows up and goes, " Yeah, you haven't got enough of those speakers. And we're like, " Wait a minute."

Like, I think we all play with elements. You know, you can only create what you can create. And can only work with who's available and what you can do. But as a community leader that you've been working on this, how did you find that endurance and that willingness, or maybe is it still obsession that you wanted to create?

Because when I met you you were asking very much the questions of like, " How can I make this better?" Like, you're doing something for other people, and you wanted to know how to make this better, which I think the biggest showcase of how much you cared.

 So how long did it take, or how much energy, endurance did it take to actually keep it going? Because I'm assuming it might not always be as, as rewarding or feeling like everything's going as easy. 

Mel: Definitely it's not always rewarding. Like, sometimes we would have only five people showing up, but at the end, realizing that it's worth it because those five people really needed to connect and really made great connections with themselves.

It's like, that's when I see, wow, my work is done. this is what I wanted to happen. I just wanted to s- see people collaborating, inspiring each other most of all. And when I see them leaving with like, "This was great. I love it. Thank you for putting this together," that's it. That's worth absolutely everything.

that feeling of connecting humans that are so passionate about what they do is the thing I love the most 

Radim: I love what you said because even though five people in the room might seem like a massive disappointment, those five people will be friends forever because they just found themselves in a room with a proper meaningful and easier conversation than obviously in a room of 50 or 500.

So what might sometimes seem like a disappointment is actually a win because the magic always happens in a room regardless of how many people are in there. The other project that you do is called Side Project. it's a connection and it's a tool and a practice for creative wellbeing.

Now I know more about your backstory, it makes so much more sense to me why this exists. So what is a Side Project? 

Mel: So I started Side Project because after working with Frames by Friends for so long, and it took a direction of networking for professionals. But started to get more interested into people, into how they process not only their work, but life in general, and how they need to be connected in a more human and deep way instead of just big networking events.

So I just saw that Barcelona was quite full of places where you can do great networking, but maybe can feel sometimes a little bit shallow for people that needs more depth. So I started Side Project exactly because I felt like, wow, I have an idea of, like, my life shouldn't be a side project.

 My life is how I eat, how I work, how I approach life, how I manage my relationships. It's, everything at the same time. So how can I create a space for people where they can share more than just their professional paths and a little bit more about themselves as creatives? Probably with neurodivergencies, probably as being migrants that are struggling, and trying to figure out their careers in other places.

So I wanted to create a space that felt psychologically safe as well, and started gathering and working with a psychologist, an economist, and, people with different expertise in other areas that can add value to the creative community and make them feel that they have the tools needed to thrive and actually put their energy into their creative work.

So I think that's important. When we Maybe us creatives, as very sensitive people, when we have our life a little bit more figured out, our relationships and everything's flowing, our just flows. So I wanted to bring a little bit of that. 

Radim: I fully agree, 'cause I think what we need to do, I think we need to explain what Side Project actually really is.

Because in one of your, description, it says that Side Project was born as a community for creatives to build a life around work that feels stable, supported, and sustainable. So As opposed to mass networking events, what is the format of the side projects? happens in the room? 

Mel: So there are different small gathers where it's just, a very small set of people, not that many.

But, one of them is honest conversations where we have basically, we work with a psychologist where we can delve and talk about our challenges as creatives, if we're going through self-sabotage stuff or imposter syndrome or, figuring out changes Or even grief. So this might be a little bit more deep and more emotional work. On the other hand, I wanted to create a space as well for creatives to feel proud of what they do. So I have another format called Work in Progress, and we make gathers once a month where people come over and show whatever they are passionate about.

It doesn't necessarily have to be work or professional stuff, but whatever thing that actually them feel something in the past maybe month, or year. And I love it because people, when they come, they feel super inspired of sharing with each other, giving each other feedback, whether they are presenting something that is very personal or something that's super professional.

So we find ourselves in the middle of being like, wow, for creative, sometimes work is so personal, and we are sometimes scared of showing it, but it's gonna be well-received. And I found people that always received very well whatever that I was doing and cheered me up. So I wanted to create that space as well and create that feeling of inspiring each other and being cheerful for each other.

Radim: Then you talk about what was seemingly perceived as a unsuccessful event for Frames by Friends, where, you you had five people show up. You now have an event which is five or six people showing up for this particular event, and that really intimate connection where, you know, you can stay present and be fully human and learn from one another really is at the heart of this.

Because when I think about traveling to conferences for the last nearly 15 years Even though you m- used to meet people on Twitter, be like Twitter friends or Instagram friends or whoever friends, even let's say our, our our friendship is based on having the first-hand experience of being in the room and having a shared creative experience that goes beyond any digital connection cause you got shared experience and, you find out more about a person, therefore you appreciate who they are and How they think, how they dream, how they hope. Because when we realize that we are so much alike one another with our uniqueness, you in the mix, by going through similar things in life and through similar sort creative battles or life battles or bureaucracy it makes you feel less alone.

It makes you feel more seen. the experience of life processing life through creativity in s- sense feels more shared, therefore feels more liberating. And you realize, you know what? What I was thinking about my scaries, they're just like everybody else's.

 Did you find that? 

Mel: Totally. when we connect with each other, I just have this feeling that, We are not in such different paths. We're actually each one in our own unique path of discovering ourselves, but at the same time, when we share the path with each other, it becomes way more light.

I found this very interesting vicarious learning, where we realize that, we are working and when we are sharing with other people, we just learn from their experiences. So it becomes less scary, it becomes less heavy, when we go through it alone.

And there's a lot of whatever we are going through life that if we share it, I think we can absolutely feel that we can actually go through it and help each other and feel more inspired throughout the way. Community at the center of everything that we do, right? I know that it starts with family, but then friends, and then a community of people that's connected through our passions.

So I just feel that community is at the center. 

Radim: Beautifully said. I, I've never heard of vicarious learning, so I Googled it for the record, and it says, " vicarious learning is a process of acquiring new behaviors, knowledge, or beliefs by observation and analyzing the experiences of others."

It's exactly what you described, in a way, how all of this works by having shared experiences. It's incredible because I think, just like many other creatives, having a first-hand experience of a burnout and isolation, it makes you feel like you're the the loneliest person in the world because you convince yourself that everyone else is great, everyone else is doing well, and no one is doing that.

But at that moment, with our shared experiences, it can really trip you up and make you feel really confused. So the work you do in that, I think, is is incredibly important because ultimately, when you, when you take a small group of people and make them feel better, they'll have a bigger impact through what they do on the others, Cause it'll radiate it to a bigger community. I'm fascinated by everything that you do, I'm sure there's something that you're planning for the future. What is Mel's view of the next few months and a year or two? Have you got an idea where you're gonna package it up and, use it?

Would you use it in a commercial space, or are you still ha- not happy doing these projects on the side? Is there anything like that?

Mel: I am exactly going through as a good side project that has a lot of experimentation to it. I am experimenting with putting this idea outside in the world and figure it out Even though I might have a fixed idea of Wow, I want to work with sponsors. I want to grow... for the project to grow towards this way," I am letting for the process to show itself.

So I'm having fun while it's growing. I'm having fun while I see people connecting and showing up and, showing themselves as they are. And it's very experimental, to be honest. I'm looking forward to see where it grows without attachment to any outcome. So at this point I am open.

I know that by showing up myself and creating this space, things are gonna move forward, and the path is gonna show itself. Maybe it's a little bit too abstract, but I wanna let the project to get its own shape, and I'll figure out, so it took me here. I mean, it took me here to talk with you.

It took me to that amazing table that day when we had dinner. It has taken me to connect with other amazing people. So I've realized that even if I had an idea of what this can become, maybe there's another plan or big idea that can just show up in the middle 

Radim: I think what you've done, obviously you've created momentum.

You're always asking questions, you're pushing, you're wanting to find out what's next, where's next, who's next, who with, I think there's this beautiful path of asking questions of having shared experiences and trying to do things for others.

Because when you remove yourself from the equation, say , "Oh, this needs to do something for me, but it needs to do something for others," all of a sudden you've got actually more space and openness to share this bigger community, with others. Because think creativity ca- especially at the beginning, can convince us that we need to really prove something to ourselves and to the others.

You know, am I worthy enough of successes or validation? Whereas in the stages where I call them in the book, three stages of our creative lives and careers, when it's, the inward stage, which is the early one, which is very egocentric and, kind of driven and selfish because you really want to explore the creativity that you feel you've been given and you can, you exercise.

To then realize that, you know what? I I can take some feedback and changes and actually be part of a bigger team, that's more of the outward stage, right? You can say like, "Okay, I'm here for the benefit of others, us." But then you get to the third stage, which I believe you very much embody now, which is the forward stage, where you're generous with your time, you're generous with your, um, with your energy, and you're creating spaces for others to actually find themselves in, because having started a few community nothing few community projects and, and even just doing a podcast, it's about people like yourself, it's about the others.

And guess what? It's been the most rewarding and most connecting piece of my work ever because even though when I was trying to be accepted for whatever I was doing in the past as a designer illustrator, this is the path that finds more people, it finds more connections, finds more acceptance and validation with people.

Like because when you care about the others, you really unlock this, this arsenal of compassion and learning, which is totally unavailable to you if you really look after yourself only. So I can only salute you for what you do because the warmth and the generosity comes through everything that you do.

And tracing it back, to your army general grandad going, " We're gonna meditate, we're gonna explore, we're gonna do this," it comes from there. I mean, they've set you on this path where, your curiosity led you to where you are today and what you do. But I I wanna finish with three words that you said just a short while ago because you said, "It was nice to see the others in a community to make me realize that ideas have home."

And I think that to me sort summarizes what you do. Ideas have home. Would you agree? 

Mel: I do agree. that's exactly what I unintentionally created. I've been wanting not create a physical home for people that, uh, want to share their ideas, but as well as a person, embody somebody that can be a home for people to share their ideas, their paths and the stuff they feel most afraid of sharing or feeling that they don't belong.

So I've created in myself a space where I feel that my creativity belongs, and if I can create that feeling towards others, that makes me feel so, fulfilled and that I have a path still in progress. 

Radim: I think we'll be in progress forever. When you were talking about sharing, it made me think of a quote by Michal Dalén, which is a, professor of economics in Stockholm, who literally said that the future is in daring to share.

And I think what you're doing, your version of daring forever is daring to share. And look, I'm excited about what you do, how you do it, and I wanna be part of it in some way. And whenever I'm in Barcelona next, we need to do some collaborations because to bring people together in such effortless way that you make it look effortless, I mean, we know it's not exactly as effortless as it looks, but in the way you do it with grace and gratitude is remarkable.

So I'm really glad that we got to put a bit of a spotlight on you today to talk about your journey, about your story, and what you do, and I'm excited for what's coming next for you. So thank you for being here. 

Speaker 3: Thank you so much, Robin. This was amazing. 

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Speaker 7: Hey, thank you for joining me on this episode of the Daring Forever podcast. As always, I'd love to know your thoughts, questions, and even suggestions, so please get in touch via the show notes or social channels. This episode was produced and presented by me, Radim Malinich. The audio production was done by Neil McKay from Seven Million Bikes podcast.

Thank you for being here, and I hope to catch you on the next episode

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