Ryan Luse is a motion designer and art director who has spent 25 years mountain biking and 15 years creating at the intersection of graphic design, motion, and art direction. 

After being let go from a four-year position, Ryan chose stillness over security—a decision that led him through depression, meditation, coaching and ultimately a complete creative transformation. 

Now creating concert visuals, Ryan shares how pushing past comfort zones on the bike mirrors pushing creative boundaries, how intuition trumps logic, and why the most uncomfortable moments often lead to the most authentic work. This conversation explores truth-seeking, scarcity as clarity, and the courage to contribute to culture rather than just commerce.

Key Takeaways:

• The comfort zone principle – Whether mountain biking or creating, growth happens just past your comfort zone. If you're always comfortable, you're not learning much and might even get bored
• Stillness as strategy – When faced with crisis, Ryan chose not to distract himself with more work but to dedicate time to stillness, meditation, and figuring out his authentic path
• Intuition vs validation – Rational intelligence seeks external validation and checks boxes. Intuition lives in the present moment and often completely defies logic—but it's where the truth lives
• Meditation reveals truth – The goal isn't to reach a mindless state, but to observe thoughts without attaching reactions. Random revelations that pop up during meditation are often where the most authentic insights emerge
• Scarcity creates clarity – Going through a year-long period of financial scarcity kept Ryan in an alert state that, when balanced with self-care, provided remarkable clarity about his path
• Creative therapy matters – Working with coach Ben Tallen provided the creative-specific support that traditional therapy couldn't offer, helping Ryan discover he was both "rambunctious and personable"
• The leap of faith moment – When intuition overrides rational thinking and something in you knows you have to do it anyway, even if it feels dangerous and uncertain—that's growth
• Authenticity over template – Rather than picking a Squarespace template, Ryan is creating stylized handwriting and hand-done lettering for his website because it feels authentic, even if it's unconventional for a motion designer
• From corporate to culture – Transitioning from tech/corporate work to music industry visuals allowed Ryan to turn up his weirdness instead of taming it back, creating work that amplifies energy and contributes to culture
• Process as discovery – Whether creating a website or working on a project, the process itself helps you discover what something is and what you authentically want to say

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Ryan: [00:00:00] it was the first job I've ever, and only that I've ever quit because I knew I needed time. I couldn't process what I was going through and work this other job at the same time. So that was basically dedication to, stillness, to just like not traveling and escaping and distracting myself or getting more dopamine from this or that, but just, I'm not gonna work for a while.

I'm just gonna spend time with my partner and our dog and just kind of figure out what's right for me and what's authentic for me. Because the path I was on that's not where I want to go anymore. So like, what's my new path? What's my authentic path? And as you can imagine, that's a pretty hard question to answer that it takes a lot of reflection.

So that's really what caused me to really look deeply into intuition and instinct and my own emotional intelligence and just. Give it time and just see what direction it's pulling me, [00:01:00] 

Welcome to the Daring Creativity Podcast, a show about daring to forever explore creativity that isn't about chasing shiny perfection. It's about showing up with all your doubts and imperfections and making them count. It's about becoming more of who you already are. My name is Radim Malinic I'm a designer, author, and eternally curious human being.

 I am talking to a broad range of guests who share their stories of small actions that sparked lifetime discoveries, taking one step towards the thing that made them feel most alive. 

 Let me begin this episode with a question. Are you ready to discover what happens when you dare to create? Today I'm speaking with Ryan lz, a motion designer [00:02:00] and art director from Marion County, California. Ryan's journey spans 25 years of mountain biking and 15 years at the intersection of motion and graphic design. Always pushing just past the comfort zone because that's where learning happens. In this conversation, Ryan discusses how riding a bike down a mountain at speeds that scares you, mirrors the creative process.

Why he chooses meditation and coaching of immediately finding new work at times of scarcity, which gave him the clarity he needed. He also opens up about discovering his authentic voice, which led him to contribute to culture, which feels more meaningful rather than just serving commerce.

 It is my pleasure to share my conversation with Ryan l 

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Radim: Hey Ryan, welcome to the show.

Ryan: It is good to be here, autumn. I feel like a long time listener. First time caller.

Radim: It is really funny 'cause somebody else said it recently, and I'm like, I feel that's a [00:03:00] genuine and beautiful compliment, 

Ryan: Yeah.

Radim: Ryan, it's been a long time coming. I'm so happy that you're on a show. I've got lot of questions in my mind to see, like, you know, what'd you do, how you do it.

 I think we've got lots, lots of things in common. but before we get into all of this, how did you introduce yourself? Who are you? What'd you do?

Ryan: Yeah. I'm Ryan Lu. I'm from, Marin County in California. I've been mountain biking for about the last 25 years. Mountain biking started there in my hometown in Fairfax. I went to California College of the Arts for graphic design. let's see, about 15 years ago since then, I've been, uh, working as a motion designer and graphic designer in kind of a hybrid.

An art director. So a lot of my practice, kinda revolves around, the intersection of those things. So how, as a motion designer do I bring in graphic design processes and thinking and art direction, kind of all in one. 

Radim: That's a unique introduction because No one's ever said they've been mounting biking for 25 years. So I think, you know what, we'll start there because you must have seen a lot of changes in [00:04:00] your life, in the sport and in the approach to the sport in the last 25 years.

So normally I would ask people like, Hey, what was your first point of creativity? Like, you know, what was the first piece of work that inspired you by like, what was the first mountain bike that you've seen and gone, what is that? Can I have it please?

Ryan: Yeah, so when I started, it was cross country racing in high school with, the NorCal League. and it wasn't really official sport, it was a, a club. So it was sort of this underground, grassroots, you know, thing. This was in the mid two thousands. and then over the years I got into downhill riding. I went to Whistler in Canada, a bunch with my friends and, bike park riding.

And then since then there's been this, I guess trend in the sport you could call it, Enduro, which is sort of in between cross country, you know, like, more fitness, climbing and, light fast Bikes. And then downhill is the much heavier burley Bikes that are made for steep terrain and rocks and roots and drops and jumps.

So Enduro is kind of in between where it's a bike that is decent enough for climbing and, descends [00:05:00] really well, like just about as well as a downhill bike. So. My favorite kind of riding kind of is, is all of the above. so going out for a big exploratory ride in the forest, and then hitting some fun downhills on the way down.

 Most of the rides are kind of oriented around what downhills you wanna do 'cause that's the fun part, but the whole thing is great. So.

Radim: I have to tell you as a roadie, that doubles in gravel. I prefer going uphill. I, I don't like going down hill, especially on like loose gravel. And, you know, you go in like a 40 5K an hour and you're like, why? I mean, there's a perfectly good road about, you know, 500 yards from here. I'd rather do that.

 But what draws you to the sport and what'd you get out of it? 

 what was it like for you to, to go for those, steps of being a novice rider and actually then really enjoying and being at one with the bike?

Ryan: it's a lifelong thing, honestly. you know, initially it's a really overwhelming to be on a mountain bike with all these controls you're riding on, unpredictable terrain. You're, you're looking at rocks or whatever, and you just don't know how the bike goes over that, I guess.

Ryan: but over [00:06:00] time you just get a sense of what the bike is capable of and what you're capable of. And I, I would say, to answer your question, the biggest thing that pulled me in initially was, this comfort or, sorry, concept of comfort zone. where if you are always in your comfort zone on a bike, you're not going to learn much and you're not going to progress much. And you might, even get bored because you're staying within this comfort zone that's quite limiting at first. and fear kind of keeps you from pushing the bike too fast or whatever, but someone early on told me you should be riding just past your comfort zone.

Ryan: but that applies to uphill for fitness. You know, like how much you can push yourself, but also downhill for how fast you're going. so if you're coming into a corner a little faster than you might normally, the only way to make it through is to lean the bike a little bit more than you normally do.

So you kind of have to like learn, how to adapt to this higher speed. And it's really thrilling it's not just about adrenaline, it's actually quite calming. sometimes if I have a bit of anxiety or going through this or that, going out for a bike [00:07:00] ride is probably the most calming thing I could do if I have an hour or two.

Ryan: but yeah, overall that, that concept, comfort zone pushing yourself and just getting used to it. And over time, it just becomes second nature and intuition and instinct. And since I've been doing it long enough, now I get to go out and ride and just enjoy the trail and not even think about the controls or how to lean or anything like that.

And the reality is, is that sometimes I do corners well and sometimes I don't because I'm trying to ride at a, a higher speed. I'm still just past that comfort zone. So there's a fun relationship with being comfortable with being uncomfortable in a sense. 'cause you're literally hurling your body down, trails.

Radim: I mean, there's a parallel between what you just described and creativity, but staying with the Bikes for one more minute is like, yes.

It takes so long to actually just be at one and just forget whatever it is, because I realized, you know, very early on that if you wanna get a bettered ride. You go to the gym, you do strength and conditioning, you actually learn how to do this stuff. figure out in which [00:08:00] tutorials, like how can you learn from people and realize what you might be not capable of.

And then it just, all of a sudden, like those 10% degree sort of climbs, they be like, oh, all of a sudden they, they feel smaller. Like they feel more manageable and the downhills get more manageable. In fact, you know, you go, you go actually, you push yourself going like, this is quite magical So when you talk about like the comfort zones and if you don't lean enough into your bike, and if you don't lean enough into the right, you're not really learning. And I think this is the beautiful parallel between like how we do our creativity.

Because if you wanna be more creative, not gonna be more creative with extra 10 hours of brush work doing the same thing over and over again. Yes, you, you do your 10,000 hours, but. The library is the conversation, it's the humanity, is the empathy.

Like it's actually pushing yourself into the things that take you further. So in a way, what you're describing, it's a beautiful parallel because I just, I always find that there is a very strong sort of connection between what we do [00:09:00] with our brains and how we process things, and how we then sort of take it and do and use it as a creative process.

 So when it comes to your creative work, comfort zones and leaning into it, how would you see it, in your view.

Ryan: Yeah, that's a great question. When I started freelancing, so I was out of art school and working as a motion designer and ad agencies and all that. if I got hit up for a job, I had this nervous anxiety of not knowing what the job was and could I do it? Because as a motion designer, you're often expected to be able to do quite a wide range of things, and that, would be kind of crippling fear sometimes.

But I would say, I'm just gonna do it anyways. I'll figure it out as I go. and what I found over time was that every single time I was nervous about a project, if they wanted character animation, I didn't know how to character animate, let's say. I would always figure out a way to make it happen and, and figure out what they need.

And if there was a big enough concern that I couldn't do it, then I would raise that and we would figure it out together. Right. So there's this kind of, I think, general [00:10:00] nature of like, okay, yeah, it's scary, but this will be a good experience. You might learn something from it, it's probably worth doing.

And it's not as though you sign up and then you're just stuck to it. You're, you're not locked in a rollercoaster that you can't get out of. you have the ability to like, control how it goes to a degree and, figure it out as you go. And I think over time I ended up, getting a really appreciation for being pushed and challenged in that way.

Like, if I get a comment from a client that, let's say, me, I feel like might take away from what I love about it, and I immediately go, ah, man, this, gonna be tough. Because it seems like they want something different than. What I'm currently really, enjoying about it, but figuring out how to find that medium ground and still maintain what I love about it.

And oftentimes in those challenging situations, loving it even more because I got what they needed and advance the project in the way that they needed it and then I get to be like, wow, that, actually pushed me to go to a place I didn't really like, maybe want [00:11:00] to at first, but the end result is more appreciative.

So I think over time I've just gotten used to that, feeling of discomfort because that comes up a lot in this kind of work, throughout the creative process. it's not cozy, I think it should be challenging. and now I'm, I'm 37 and I can look back at roughly a 15 year career now and just be really appreciative of where I started and where I'm currently at.

And, yeah, I guess these days I'm just really excited about. Where I'm going. 'cause I don't know what that is. there's a lot of different routes I could be going down and I'm not trying to define that or, settle on anything. I'm, I'm kind of just excited to see what, unfolds.

Radim: As you can see from the, uh, excitement in my eyes is everything you've been saying, I can see it from the parallel of, downhill mountain biking. Will I be able to do it? You know, I will find a way. This should be challenging, I'm appreciative of, of what I've got. Because when you put it in a parallel, once again, it's because we got a little bit more time to spend in our default network zone, with our [00:12:00] brains.

daydream for a little bit, but then we've got the executive network mode where we validate, validate, validate. You know, like, is this the right choice? This is theAnd when those two sides are fighting, because we got more time to actually entertain it in the standstill.

Like when, for example, you get a project brief and you're like. will I be able to do it? Whereas when you are on the preface of like, of a downhill, you're like, I'm doing it. Like I have to work it out. And I think this is the beautiful parallel where we had in that when you don't have time to overthink it, you find yourself actually being able to do it, realizing why did I overthink it in the first place?

 So if you're career, let's, put more color onto this So you've gone to the California College of Arts and you graduated and you've started freelancing, you started creative work. So 

 what was the draw for the creative work? Where did it come from? And what inspired you to pursue this path?

Ryan: yeah, I'll go a little bit further back than college. my dad was a photographer photojournalist at the San Francisco Chronicle for roughly 30 years. So I [00:13:00] grew up around photography and, and he also started a winery, partway through that too, which that's what he's solely doing now. he was a huge inspiration for me, not just for art and style and aesthetics, you know, he'd, he'd show me all the cool Martin Scorsese movies and stuff like that and talk about filmmaking from his perspective as an artist.

And I, I think the biggest thing I gained from him was not necessarily that translation of aesthetic or style, but more just this teaching of intuition. So instead of telling me what something was, he often asked me what I thought. He, he knows the importance in like learning your own intuition.

And, he did a, I have to say, a beautiful job. I'm very grateful for that these days. I think that ultimately led just to a lot of curiosity about, how I can contribute to art and what, I, resonate with. And I've always been drawn to so many different things. You know, I played a lot of video games as a kid.

I liked Legos. I stole my mom's post-it notes and made little, like, stop motion, stick figure animations and stuff like that. So think ultimately what [00:14:00] brought me into all this was, just a curiosity and, and motion design seems to be a great medium for combining so many different art forms and aesthetics.

So it, it's this one place that I can experiment with all of it. And it's also time-based, so it's not a static form, but it's, it's moving and it's something that plays over time. So there's this whole element with music and stuff too. So, yeah, it's, it's one place where, it all kind of just collides, I guess.

Radim: That's amazing. so it was really interesting. I had a David, David Carson son, Luke on a podcast, a few, a few episodes ago, and David Carson, being from that generation of your dad, obviously he's very big on intuition. It's like intuition kind of runs in that generation quite a lot because I'm gonna grind it to death, this element.

But it's like there was age of innocence, it was easier to fail in private, it was easier to do things to discovery that were just personal, that were not [00:15:00] necessarily shared with the world. And the intuition was almost like the only sort of compass, the only north star.

It was like, Hey, I feel this is right. And, and as you said, the intuition kind of give you the right curiosity about pursuing of things because senior dad working in photojournalism, like, you get to see the firsthand experience of how this works.

And I mean, can you take photos with that intuition? I don't think you can.

Ryan: I think it all comes down to emotional intelligence, which has been a, big, I guess subject I've been interested in the last couple years. And the separation between rational intelligence, let's call it, and an emotional intelligence and rational intelligence logic, kind of goes towards that need for validation.

It, it's related to the ego and a need to just feel like you're doing something right and you're checking metrics and past data to make sure that, okay, all the boxes are checked. This is, you know, all the data's right. But intuition and instinct comes from a completely different place and it often completely defies logic and rational thinking.

really is just trusting and going with it [00:16:00] and, being present ultimately. I think if you're in the logic and rational place. a lot of that is in a, different part of your mind looking at past data, maybe future prediction, whatever. But when you're living an instinct and intuition, you are purely present with yourself and what you're doing.

And I think any kind of art form when you're, you're in that state, let's call it a flow state now. 'cause I'm pretty sure that's what this is, it feels good. So you wanna stay in it and you're not thinking about anything else. You know, I, I have that mountain biking, I'm in that present state.

I can't think about anything else while I'm descending down a hill. 'cause I'm, I, I am subjecting my body and my mind to this experience. and same thing with, art, when it's at it's prime, when I'm working on a project that's really got me going, I can't stop thinking about it. I think about when I go to bed and when I'm actually working on it.

I'm very present with it and I can't be distracted by anything else. I'm not thinking about bills or, or, anxieties or anything. I'm just doing that. And so I think there's an attraction to that, For a, person to like, be completely [00:17:00] invested in what gives them that present state back.

There's a really cool, reciprocal kinda relationship with it. And I think you have to train your intuition too. It, it doesn't come naturally. You have to, kind of own it and, give back to it in a way.

Radim: Yeah. when you talk about rational intelligence and the need for recognition, I, I'm rereading pretty much on a daily basis. A few pages from the Courage to Be disliked is like one of my favorite books in the world. And there was literally a chapter the other day, which I reread again, that the need for recognition basically stifles our progress.

Like when we feel like, you know, am I doing it right? is someone giving me the external validation? Like, is this good enough? I know that that's what we are hardwired to feel like we are gonna as hardwired to search for. But it really, when you think about it, like how much fun it takes out of the creativity.

Because you're thinking, am I doing the right, am I, am I writing the right word? Am I saying the right thing where people like this word, like, no, no, no, it doesn't matter. This happens in this moment. This is the best decision I can make right now. And nothing else matters [00:18:00] because I think there'll be a lot of people thinking right now and like, Hey, Ryan, I'm really jealous because you work and you don't think about your bills.

Or you can focus and you can lock in because, as we get older and when life gets in the way and gets more complicated and noisier, I feel like there's a lot of time where you just have to be. Creative athlete, you know, I need to sort of switch on and go, oh, I've got 20 minutes in two hours, I'm gonna do that.

I'm gonna be ready for that sprint to do that. And then we go rest back in the washing machine of life, you know? So with your way of learning about emotional and R and rational intelligence, what was the way to actually getting closer to realizing that such things even exist?

Ryan: That's a good question. I think the place to start would be a couple years ago. I was let go from a job that I had for four years. and I was given very short notice. and that kind of shot me into, a depression immediately. it was pretty tough. I, started seeing a therapist for the first time in my life and, I didn't know which way was up.

I [00:19:00] didn't know how to, handle that. I also didn't understand why my reaction was so hard to understand. I, I usually am, I think, pretty good at assessing myself, but in that situation. I felt really lost. and so in that instance, I decided I wasn't gonna work. Yeah, I, I did have another contract job after the one that I just mentioned I lost.

But, it was the first job I've ever, and only that I've ever quit because I knew I needed time. I couldn't process what I was going through and work this other job at the same time. So that was basically dedication to, stillness, to just like not traveling and escaping and distracting myself or getting more dopamine from this or that, but just, I'm not gonna work for a while.

I'm just gonna spend time with my partner and our dog and just kind of figure out what's right for me and what's authentic for me. Because the path I was on that's not where I want to go anymore. So like, what's my new path? What's my authentic path? And as you can imagine, that's a pretty hard question to answer that it takes a lot of reflection.

So [00:20:00] that's really what caused me to really look deeply into intuition and instinct and my own emotional intelligence and just. Give it time and just see what direction it's pulling me, I guess you could say.

Radim: I love that you use the word stillness. ' cause stillness is such a hard thing to achieve. It throws you around, especially like if you say like you've been given a short notice from a job basically, that notice has thrown you around so much and you've decided to do the opposite of the obvious.

 You've decided to go for stillness. What was that like? Because obviously, yeah, you mentioned the word depression and you know, I've seen a therapist and finding help. When you go in motion, you know, again, let's take you back to that downhill. You know, you go, hard and fast, and then you find yourself at the end sometimes breaking it last second, and you find that stillness, obviously that's a physical reaction, but that's just, that's a physical experience, but that experience having a bit work and creative work, and obviously everything that it gives us.

 How did you find that [00:21:00] stillness? Because that must been, in a way, satisfying, but it feels like a frightening concept.

Ryan: You know, at first it's stillness is really uncomfortable if you're used to a lot of stimulus, you know, like mountain biking is very stimulating, right? And, I think a lot of us can be attracted to distractions, dopamine hits, and, other stimulus. But to actually dedicate to just stillness and not to just taking some time without what usually is your vice is, let's say, yeah, it's uncomfortable at first 'cause you don't, you don't know what to think about.

If, if you haven't spent time with your thoughts, at length, then it, it can be pretty chaotic. First, there's, there's kind of a noisy threshold. It's a breakthrough. so, you know, early in that time, I, I didn't know it was how do I recalibrate? What do I do? I was, I had some credit card debt that was mounting and, that was really anxiety inducing to have that looming while I decided to not work.

And this was also in, let's see, late 2023. So it was, a period that many of us know as a pretty slow period [00:22:00] in the creative industry. so a lot of things to be anxious about, but I knew that the only thing that mattered was my own, mental state, and I had to figure that out. So therapy, on for a few months while I could still afford it.

But, af once I couldn't, it was tough to figure out like, what was next. But shortly after that, I started meditating and I think a lot really shifted after that. because that was really like a method to learn. How to reflect on your own inner state, if you will. And I don't know if there is any other way too.

Ryan: and what I talked about earlier about just stillness and that uncomfortable noise and static. when you meditate for the first time, it is very uncomfortable if you're not used to it because you're face to face with your monkey mind and how just rambunctious it is. So, learning how to, to meditate, that was, uh, really foundational to the last couple years.

Radim: what you said about meditation and especially the first few session, it's just, they literally say in the book like, [00:23:00] Hey, don't judge yourself. It's not gonna go well. Don't judge yourself because you make yourself doubly uncomfortable because you want the meditation to solve a problem.

 I think you guys call it a bandaid, we call it a plaster. Like I think you just, basically, you want the, the crack that you've got like just to put a bandaid on it. Like, Hey, look, I just did a couple of reps. can it all be solved? And I remember like personal experience when I really needed a lot of help when I was meditating.

I was like, obviously the noise and like the literally the loud voices in my head going. It's too much. You know, there was no stillness. I was not happy with not spending time with my own thoughts, especially when I was looking for solution and I was judging myself like, Hey, this should be better. This should be like, I mean, this should go well.

Like I should feel better. And you're thinking, well, you're not gonna go to the gym. And started picking up like a, 25 kilo dumbbell going, I'm expecting to pick it up in one hit now, and I'm expecting to do it well. Right. You've never picked it up before, more or less. Like you, you've always been [00:24:00] afraid to pick it up and now you have to pick it up.

 And you haven't got those reps, you haven't built up the muscle. And you know, you said it beautifully, like spending time with your thoughts. it can sound really nice on paper it can sound really nice to say it, but oh my God. How traumatic is that experience to do it for yourself?

You know, especially for the first time, because when you were saying this, I was thinking what was your creativity and what was the noise in your life almost? A hideaway place from like, what did you use that noise to not deal with something that potentially needed dealing with?

Ryan: with that stillness there, there wasn't much else to do except for go for bike rides and initially that static, the monkey mind, the, the busyness, like you said, the voices in your head. they're pretty loud, but it's a threshold that you can get through if you sit through it, it's uncomfortable, just the way we were talking about, comfort earlier.

Ryan: but you find out that there's layers and it goes deeper and deeper, deep, as deep as you want it to go, really. and ultimately meditation is not about. [00:25:00] Reaching a mindless state. I think that's what I used to think of it as when I was younger and I just thought, I can't meditate because I don't know how to be mindless.

Right. But really what it's all about is observing your thoughts and kind of being one layer back and just watching them happen. And the key thing is to not attach reactions to the thoughts that come up. And as best you can, it's really hard, but just observe them. And eventually, depending on, the state you're in, the, those thoughts will calm down a little bit.

and it'll get calmer and calmer. I would say for the last year and a half I've been meditating and I've had maybe two experiences of like what we could call mindlessness. it, it was just pure presence with myself and really euphoric, good feeling. But that's rare. That's really rare. And, you shouldn't attach yourself to it.

I know I had an attachment to getting back to that state because it felt so good. Even that was something that I'm like, I can't attach myself to that because then I build an expectation out of it. So sometimes I meditate and it may [00:26:00] just like going to the gym, it's like not that great of a workout.

But other times I do. And it's surprisingly good. And, the biggest takeaway I think out of all this stuff has been when you get into these states of, your mind is calmer and you're present with yourself and all that, occasionally these random thoughts, these intuitions, instincts, uh, revelations, whatever you wanna call it, they'll pop up and you, you can grab onto it if you want.

And that's where I've probably found the most truth, if we're gonna call it truth seeking throughout all this internal work. it's been those random moments where you can't plan it, just a thought pops up and it's rethinking something in a way that I never thought before. For creative projects.

For personal relationships for. My own life and direction, all sorts of stuff, like everything. But, it's those little moments that I think I keep doing this for, and it gives me a lot of gratitude for who I am and a lot of hope for, where things are going.

Radim: You mentioned that 2023 wasn't the best time for, getting creative work and Yeah, it was quite shocker. And then we thought 2023 was bad then 2024 showed up. but [00:27:00] I think we know kind of passed it. But how did you solve that situation?

Because you talked about credit card bills, you know, anxiety around it and, that already can be quite paralyzing, if you go for an anxiety that's attached to it, you know, it can be quite paralyzing to say like, what is my next move?

 But what was your next move to get out of this? Like how did you turn things around?

Ryan: So back in, um, 2023 initially entered a period of stillness, like I mentioned, but eventually I knew I needed to kind of change, what type of work I was doing.

And I would say I'm still on this journey, but something that came up in 2024, was music industry work. So my emotion design skills, all of a sudden translated to creating concert visuals, so backgrounds for, for artists. So tones and I as an Australian pop artist, that was the first tour. So I art directed, a good chunk of, of the content and then, animated, I believe five songs.

and. That was the first time I've ever done work for the music [00:28:00] industry. I've worked, I've animated to music before, but, but this was a different thing. It wasn't an ad, it was a full five minute song. often with footage of the artist dancing and then doing heavy, heavy after effects treatments. and creating a whole narrative arc with visuals, if you will, that kind of match the beat and energy and, feeling of, of the music that they're playing.

 And the way I looked at it was that that would amplify the experience at the show. So it's like not just the music, but the visuals are supporting that and just amplifying the energy that is already in the song. that was a really great shift, compared to the corporate tech work that I had mostly done before.

all of a sudden when I started to do my weird experiments, because I tend to like try to go down these certain lanes, instead of someone asking me to tame it back because it's a little bit too much, they're asking me to turn it up and keep going. I found a lot of empowerment and, you know, liberation in that.

I would say that's probably my favorite creative avenue is, animating [00:29:00] to music. especially if it's a good song. But yeah, that, that was really fun. And then I did Kayle after that. She's a hip hop punk artist, so it was quite different than pop. But, very similar sort of approach. And, they also wanted things to be kind of as, as, cool and weird and loud as possible.

Radim: got a question for you, which I think is a question of many people listening to this right now. 

Finding New Opportunities Through Networking

Radim: How did you find that work? How did you go from tech incorporate into working with pop artists and hip hop punk?

Ryan: Yeah, it actually wasn't through, design. It was, through someone I met, in cycling in Santa Cruz. his name's Aaron and he owns a shop called Visual Endeavors. and he has done a lot of music industry work and event work. but yeah, he hit me up and said he'd love to bring me in on it. And even though I was fresh and had never worked in that industry before, and you know, there's some nuances to, to figure out with the world I was used to and the world that is, quite different.

 but still my, my core skills and artistry and all that still applied. So it was, it was very fun to do it my way, if you will. And I, and he gave [00:30:00] me a lot of autonomy, 

Radim: did you come to this project with a question? Will I be able to do it?

Ryan: I was excited. I was just like, enthusiastic about that because music has been such a big part of my life. and definitely influences a lot of my, I would say, philosophies as an artist, especially from hip hop. but yeah, I, I just came into it with excitement and it, and thankfully no anxiety.

Radim: I think, yeah, when you think about it, like how many people in that industry come across confident? To find out that they're tethering on anxiety at any moment. Like it's, there's so much attached to it because ultimately the right people do it for the expression of their soul. they want to pursue this.

And I've been thinking about it I'm, as I'm writing, you know, parts of this book, about, you know, daring creativity and how we there forever, like how we pursue the thing and how we go onto the element of what could be, you know, not what it is, but what could be and what could it be for me and how can I change this and what can I pursue and how I can find things.

And as I'm writing,[00:31:00] the parts, where's the dedication and sort of author's note. And we lost a great friend called Ru Palooza, who was incredibly talented artist and was always pushing into another way of what could be, what could be, what could be.

You know, I had a friend home back in Czech Republic who was a musician who never gave up. Making music. It was like, what could be, what could be, what could be until he made it, to the sort of national fame. And then only enjoyed it for a few years because, you know, there were bad news at on the other side.

But what I love about those two stories, which sadly ended up way too early, that those guys never stopped exploring, never stop explor exploring and kind of looking at what could be, because that's the best sort of possibility. Like, and this is a true testament to relationships.

having someone from biking, being a contact and making it happen again, it proves that most of these things, you know, don't happen on the end of a cold call. or called email or, I don't know, sort of blind outbound, because it happens when you actually know people, when, when you can trust them and what you can do in that sort of [00:32:00] way.

So it's, it's great to know that things sort of started sort of turn around and, and going into a proper perspective, but I would like to believe that around the same time you also started working with Ben Tallen on actual coaching. And the reason why I wanna talk about it, and I wanna give a shout out to Ben, obviously, and to both of you, of what you do together, because you've taken an active step to change your reality in a way you've actually invited someone else's perspective into your, process, into your life.

 And I think as a testament to what, Bend does, tell me what was it like to change what you do, through someone else's help.

Ryan: initially, um, li just a listener of Ben's podcast like yours, and, uh, I think this was about a year and a half ago, he, said that he was interested in getting in coaching. He said this on the podcast and that he was gonna start with, pit stop sessions. So a single four hour session, where you just deep dive into everything in your life that's related to your creative condition as he [00:33:00] puts it.

Ryan: so you talk about family, friends, your childhood, creativity, obviously what you do for a job, right? But you kind of dive into the deep end with him. And, since I was, I was in a scarcity mode for, for, you know, this time and I couldn't afford therapy. and he was doing these free pilot sessions with this podcast, so I must have messaged him at least a dozen times.

'cause I, knew how, how beneficial something like that would be for me. And, knew, just from listening to his podcast, how empathetic he was. So he just seemed like such a good person for this kind of thing. so we did that four hour session and he gave me an analysis back, it was like 12 pages and reading that from his perspective.

'cause we didn't really know each other at the time. getting his perspective on who I was and the empowerment within that, and really unexpected things like, I think my favorite detail that I'll share is in one point, in the analysis he said I was personable. And another point he said, I was rambunctious.

I just really like that contradiction of being rambunctious and personable, and I would never have labeled myself that [00:34:00] way. But hearing that from Ben, I was like, I like that. Like I'm down to own that. You know, getting that, extra perspective on you. since that pit stop, Ben and I have been doing, biweekly coaching sessions for the last, year and some months.

and, it's been massive. It's been a huge, huge part of my own transformation is, just checking in with him. And, some of my favorite sessions started out with, I don't even know what I'm gonna talk about with him. what are we gonna bring up and, it's almost like creative therapy.

Like we kind of just. Talk about whatever comes to mind related to your own creative condition. And he shares bits about him, so it's not just me talking. but that's, coaching has been a massive, massive part of, the last couple years. 'cause I think all these efforts that I've had around meditation and, his coaching and everything else that feels relevant, it's all about figuring out my own authenticity and really discovering what that is.

And I think sometimes it's hard to do that yourself. You need a second perspective and I [00:35:00] can't unload this much of my partner or a friend like it. I think it has to be some sort of coaching relationship where you're getting that insight regularly and, you're not, you know, you're not gonna like overburden their ears.

Radim: I think it's so important that this kind of work can be done, that you do this kinda work and that how much actually benefit is provided for you. What I like about what you just said and having experience in therapy with different types of people, some are meticulous note takers and go, okay, so you taught me this.

Let's go there. And they, they literally build that line bit by bit. They, they start at the beginning and then you get to the end. And then I remember having a, a different experience when someone said like, Hey, what do you wanna talk about? And I'm thinking. I've been here twice before. Where's your notes?

And then you realize, you know what? Let it lose. Let it lose. And let's see where you get to because you think I've got nothing to talk about. And within 10 minutes you're in tears because you're like, There's a lot of noise to [00:36:00] unpack. There's a lot of, residue from around the corner to, to un unpack.

Like, so I think it's interesting how you worked with Ben and how you keep it loose because Would you say that drive to work with Ben was because you felt that you already established a relationship through his voice and what he was sharing on the podcast?

 Because there must be the willingness to make that first step. Like we can listen to everyone for forever, but ultimately you really need to want. To make a change in your life because a lot of people would accept that, you know, the change they want but equals unknown. Like, I dunno what, what it might entail.

 I might feel uncomfortable, therefore I, I would stick with my current suffering and complain about the lack of change. But, but as you said, you could, couldn't really talked to your partner about this sort of stuff, like, oh, off offload so much, or your friends. So what was that feeling that you said that you felt like, okay, now is the moment where I'm gonna, you know, send Ben dozens of messages and see if he can, if he'll take me on.

Ryan: I think when I [00:37:00] recognized, the potential in, what the coaching could be like, because I mentioned therapy before, but something I was also searching for at the time was like, creative therapy. I was like, does this exist? I googled around a lot and, didn't quite find it. I, I think there's therapists out there that might specialize in it, but nothing locally or even over some kind of zoom calls, like, seemed to really pop up and resonate, but it just so happened to be the podcast I was listening to and enjoying.

and I also should mention that I saw Ben, interview Stephan at, off in, I think that was 2024. I was front row and I was really excited to watch that. And, got, really into, Ben as a podcaster interviewer after that because he asks so many great questions. so it was already sort of like this guy is, really bright and interesting and empathetic and he really leads with his heart.

 yeah, when you started talking about the coaching, it was kind of like all the dots sort of just connected and, um, I knew it would be, really beneficial to me and I'm so glad it worked out because we've had a really good thing going [00:38:00] for Yeah, over a year now.

Radim: This is, I think, the best verbal review of Ben services that can, ever achieve. ' cause I've got plenty of time for Ben. Uh,I speak to him a lot and I'm a big fan of what he does. I think when I speak to him, especially in a podcast setting, if it's on my podcast, his podcast, I find him frighteningly intelligent and clever and emotionally astute, which is, I think, rare in our industry.

I mean, we have got some really clever, intelligent people, but not in that Venn diagram of where Ben stands in the middle To present it in his own way and kind of look into how he can take that knowledge, make it more accessible and also more applicable to people like yourself by making sure that we do move on, in as a creative industry and understand ourselves as humans.

Because as you mentioned, you know, there was no such thing as a creative therapy in a way that it would be even, anywhere to be found. So this is, I think, what he's been to doing. I think it's, it's fantastic and I think, I wanted to talk [00:39:00] about it because I'm, I'm a big fan of what he does and, you know, it's just like to hear that firsthand.

 I hope that he gets more phone calls and more messages from people like yourself and people who really wanna make that change in their, creative careers. Because the reason why I wanted to ask about it, because yeah. In the concept of change, you know, how much do you get someone to understand that the change can actually provide some value?

Because you mentioned, you know, in your previous answer is that. You wanted to find stillness after something so complicated and something so almost earth shaking and groundbreaking. You wanted to find stillness because you wanted to make sense of things. And would you say that comes with maturity or necessity or curiosity?

Like why would we? I think I'm potentially still trying to find a now moment, like, you know, like this is it like, I want to change, I, I don't want this to be anymore. 

Ryan: I would call that a leap of faith moment where you, your intuition, your [00:40:00] instinct overrides irrational thinking. And even if it feels dangerous and scary and uncertain, something in, you know, is you have to do it anyway. even if you fail, you still have to do it.

And for me, yeah, initially with that stillness, that was the bigger leap of faith moment because I was, saying no to security in a time where I needed it. And then my partner and I went into a period of scarcity for about a year after. and that was really hard. We were figuring out rent and groceries every single week and just barely scraping by.

and at some point through that work started to pick up the work I had was sporadic just because of the slow period in our industry. but eventually things kind of picked up. 

Radim: you've answered it like you were talking about, the leap of faith. But I think what you can do, I think you can talk about a scarcity and how things change because I think that kind of works.

Ryan: yeah. Yeah. So that initial leap of faith moment is, is it's a big trusting, point in yourself that you can figure it out. You just have to commit to it. And, I don't know how else to describe that other than it [00:41:00] just being a gut feeling you, or asked earlier if it was maturity or curiosity. I think maturity might come out of it as a result, but it's, I don't think maturity feeds it initially.

 I think it's curiosity and commitment. and you don't have to fully understand it and you can't, you just kind of have to follow that. so yeah, in that time of scarcity, I think you, you get into like a more alert state when you're in scarcity. when you're in a comfort zone, you're, you don't have to worry about much, but.

 When you do have to worry about things because it'll slip by or slip away from you if, if you don't stay conscious of it. It keeps you in this like alert kind of state, which can be really overwhelming, for a while. but I think if you balance that well and make sure you're giving yourself rest and you're, you're really treating yourself well and, giving yourself the things you need unapologetically and, and not feeling, like you have to throw yourself into the fire in order to prove yourself to, I don't know, anyone and or yourself.

 I, I [00:42:00] think it's important to know when to rest and recover as well as, work.

Radim: I love that you call it scarcity and what you've learned from scarcity, because I believe everyone should go through it. At some point or have a moment of scarcity, because sometimes it's economically driven, sometimes it's personally driven. Sometimes you want to be in the room with somebody else and you change how you do things.

As you know, it could be seen by some as self sabotage or like, Hey, you had a good and now you wanna do this. But what you were describing, it makes perfect sense because scarcity is hunger. You know? Like it's, the tide is out. The tide is out. And we tell ourselves in the western world that the tide will, the tide will never come back in.

Well, we know that the tide comes back in, you know, and I think that that sort of paralyzing state of scarcity could be like, oh shit, what goes on? But would you say it's given you so much clarity of where you want it to be and what you want it to do? Because don't necessarily have too much noise in your world, even though that [00:43:00] a creeper and sort of anxiety or insecurity can be coming in.

 But ultimately it takes you somewhere completely new with a a pair of eyes, right.

Ryan: Yeah, absolutely. I get really excited about, that sort of unknown, like, what's gonna happen when this unfurls in the natural way that it wants to, what, what path will you lead down if you just naturally follow all those individual moments of curiosity? I think that can apply to like a project you're working on and a creative endeavor as well as like different times in your life where you just follow these little bits of curiosity and just see where they lead.

I think you learn more about yourself and what's authentic to you every time you do that, right, you're gonna do it wrong sometimes, and that's part of the process. I don't think it would be a worthwhile endeavor if every curiosity was kind of like guaranteed building up to your authentic life, but yeah, it's, about the risk and all that you learn.

Just as much from, if not more from, these little failures and mistakes and fumbles, than you do with [00:44:00] the successes. And when you do hit some curiosity, that kind of quickly leads into some sort of validation and, all that, it's like striking gold I guess. It's like, oh, I found one.

You know, but that feeling that comes up when you find that it's only gonna come up if it's rare. and I think you learn more about your internal compass, the more you kind of test that, it's, it's almost like you're blindfolded in the dark and you just kind of gotta feel around and, and find your way.

Radim: I'm looking at one of my notes from earlier and it says, truth seeking and everything you're describing seems to me like a truth seeking. It's not necessarily a truth seeking that you've embarked on the mission to find the truth, but when we are on the mission and it happens that it happens to be truth seeking, it's almost as you said, from a point of curiosity, is liberating because you realize sometimes there's an uncomfortable truth and sometimes there's actually truth, which is the reality of like.

This is how the world works. Because if you cover these bases, things become so much more rewarding and more, what's the right way to use, like more [00:45:00] rewarding, more, you appreciate more life, appreciate more actually what we, what we've been given. Because in that noisy world, in a corporate world and the world of tank, you know, like it's frenetic.

It's too much, you know, and world of everything. It's too much. And when you realize, actually, you know what, there's more stillness to it, there's more silence to it, there's more actually enjoyment. You realize, oh, why was I doing it any way differently before, because this is what it's all about.

 So with the work that obviously the work's come back in, you're working with Ben, how do you feel as a, creative human, as a, Creative and artist these days, like how does your work come across? How do you express yourself and have you found more comfort and easiness in the way of doing things?

Because you said at the beginning, sometimes you're both thinking in the past like, will I be able to do it? Do you approach work differently now?

Ryan: yeah, these days, the, the biggest thing I'm focusing on is my own personal branding. That's what Ben and I have been mostly focusing on for, I don't know, many months now. and yeah, through that, [00:46:00] that's really all I'm working on, on, personal work these days is, essentially personal branding project.

And, you know, I could pick a Squarespace template or something like that and pick a nice clean Samara font and call it a portfolio, but I really wanted to treat this like. like how do I really dig deep and figure out what is authentic to me? Uh,I have a weird, unique niche as a designer and animator.

Ryan: so how do I communicate that and what I'm interested in? Like, I love music. Music is a big influence on me. So how does that incorporate into branding? and a big thing we've been working on is, uh, basically stylized handwriting. it's something I've noticed I enjoy doing. it it, I have this classic technique that I'll spill right now on procreate, where if you, draw a letter form just basic boxy shape and you hold it down, procreate lets you, uh, edit the, anchor points of that letter form.

and it creates a really straight, strong, you know, right angles and all that. But if, if you do that with like the right brush and you, you know, make [00:47:00] for me an ROY and a and n. Then I have my name in this stylized way, and I'd just been like, gravitated towards doing that for years now. and kind of like personal voice has come out of that in a way where, that kind of represents my own branding and this messy, yet refined, almost like graffiti handwriting, but it's, it's kind of a lot of things in one.

 but these days I'm actually, trying different materials. So I recently got some Sumi ink brushes and pastels and chalk and giant, mop brush marker pens. and I'm basically just gonna go on a full like, probably for the rest of the week, figuring out different, hand done letter forms.

Ryan: and not, to be like super refined 'cause I'm not a, a lettering artist, but leaving it kind of messy and authentic and vulnerable in a way. Like I want That feeling and tone to come across. so the end goal is that my website will, be mostly comprised of, this sort of hand done lettering.

and if I zoom out, it's kind of weird that a motion designer would do that for the website. it's so different. [00:48:00] But I just know that all of this is related to whatever my core creative, authentic self is. And, it feels really good to, be putting in letter forms that I'm making and I'm not trying to make too clean and, and nice and smooth, but letting it be sort of rough around the edges.

Radim: what you're describing reminds me of so many recent conversations with my guests about the fact, like how many people came through with flash. And flash was such a wild west of like, Hey, anything goes, do you wanna see some clever shit? Here it goes. as you're talking about it, and I think now I can join the dots about Ben talking about the fact, like where have all the creative websites gone?

Because some of the really basic ones obviously put a lot more focus on, incredible hyper realistic photography. And some of the projects are just delicious. You know, it's just, it's all incredible. But people homogenized lots of things we've homogenized like the easiness, and I think we've got for a while to the point of does a website fucking matter anymore?

Like, do you need a website? of course how [00:49:00] quickly people realize they, we on a borrowed land, you know, like on the Instagram or whatever, and wherever else, you know, especially with all of the other people fighting for algorithm, you know, attention.

 Then it all goes, come back to the reality of oh, or the true, yeah. Not truth seeking of actually where, where can you own your traffic? And it, it goes back to the websites and how do you present it because you cast your mind back to early two thousands where flash was just where people were running, right.

With flash. And it was no one cared if that was right or wrong, because that was, could be anything. You know, we go back you know, it's, it's not what it is, it's what it can be. And I think going back to that mindset, it's only gonna create something that's gonna stand out so much. 'cause it's so easy to be boring. It's so easy to be easy. It's so easy to be rif. And had a creative brief for a brand rebrand and they've sent me all the links in the brief of the websites they like. And it's a chunky rif on a black background, white type. It's like, this all looks nice.

 I don't think this [00:50:00] company should play it crazy. But it only shows like, how is the mutation of the idea that just goes and just, just permeates like whatever the right sort of math, mathematical, way of, or biological way of saying like, oh no, that, it sort of multiplies for like, one becomes 12 and 12 becomes 25.

It just goes. And more and more, I think the word is permeates. Maybe not, but it's the fact that, what there is are more of, and what's easy to copy. People will do it, but the thing that's different will stand out. So I'm excited to see where you, where you're gonna, no, what you gonna achieve with this, with the website is the.

Primary belief objective to create just a home for yourself that just fills your own? Or is it just a sort of nice to have, or are you gonna use it as a business tool per se?

Ryan: kind of all the above. I think initially it's, an exercise for me to. Create something that's a reflection of, who I am. And, it's a method for uncovering what [00:51:00] that is in the way that we've been talking about how a process can help you, find out what something is. I am definitely finding out what my branding is and I, I think that helps me understand what my best offering is and how to talk about it.

Ryan: and in another way it's also hopefully going to be, uh, directing towards business. I would love to work with smaller companies that could maybe have a project that one motion designer, would be a good fit for, whether I'm designing assets, uh, or just animating them or both. I think being able to contact a company that makes products that I already like and say, Hey, you make some cool stuff.

I like what you guys do. do you think, is there anything El else I could do to like, To help you guys out, even if it's just one little cool animation to post on Instagram. So I think having a, a place to send people to, to learn about who I am is, is really essential. but yeah, you know, the biggest challenge, the website isn't really picking the work to show.

I, I already know what that is. It's, it's all the writing that goes with it because I'm not, much of a [00:52:00] writer. even though I have discovered in the last year that I really like creative writing, it's really challenging to, to sum yourself up and to figure out who your audience is and how to, advertise that to, and, and speak to them and make it in a digestible, easy to understand way that gets 'em excited about working with you.

Radim: It goes back to the reps. if you don't write about yourself all the time, you're gonna find it complicated. But it's just like, how do you do it over and over and over again? And I, I use it with some of my book clients. as a consulting editor, I just, I get them to record stuff.

I interview them, you know, just I, I, I write some of my book parts by pacing around a kitchen with one of my airports, and I just like, I'm, I'm just saying it, I'm just literally like, getting it out there because we can easily find a point where it makes us freeze, you know, like, oh, I wanna write this.

And then you, you go into that executive network and you go like, it needs to be good. Whereas your default network will be like, Hey, let's write whatever, you know, this is how I feel about life. And the, uh, the [00:53:00] monkey was like, well, let's validate this. Let's do like, let's make sure this is right or not. I mean, I think we are very lucky that we can switch the tools. We can switch to the techniques and go like, Hey, you know, what could it be? ' cause this is how it is. What could it be? I like where you go with this and I like how you've shared with me. Have you gone through some difficult periods of your life and have you searched for help? have you taken up the offers, have you made change in your life that ultimately gets you to where you are today? And, seem happy in a way where you're moving, where he's heading and, I think very much, I think finding the comfort in the decision that asking for help was potentially one of the best things you can ever done.

So thanks for talking to me today and, sharing that with me because I think it's very important that we have so much honesty and so much transparency in what we do and, sharing that with people because it's easy to think that some of the stuff is only for other people. Some of the stuff is only for maybe for privileged people, but ultimately it's for those who ask for help and don't put their hand up and say, Hey, look, here I am.

What can we do?

Ryan: [00:54:00] Thank you Rod, and it's been great talking to you. And I also just wanna say that, I, I think more than anything, something I've uncovered over this past couple years is the core of why I do this stuff is to contribute to culture. And when it comes to making the, the music stuff, for the concert visuals, it felt like there was a, a really cool observation of just seeing people enjoy a concert with my animations in the background, knowing that I had something to do with that.

there's gonna be many other ways that I can contribute to culture in the future, but I think right now opening up about my own vulnerability and what I've been through and, and what I've learned as a result, if that helps just one or a couple people get through whatever they're going through, whatever burnout, anxiety, depression, whatever.

Ryan: I think more of us need to be open about talking about this on a public stage, and it only helps. So if I saw someone like this talking a couple years ago and vulnerable about their situation, I know that would've helped me get through what I was going through at the time. So, [00:55:00] 

Radim: Love it. Brian, Thank you so much for talking to me today. Uh, I found so much value in this, and as you said, if someone's listening to this and is in a situation where you were a few years ago or feel similar in a similar way, It came from scary to ask for help, but ultimately with what you said, having that greater vision and saying, you know, how can you contribute to culture? How can you actually get other people to experience your work and then get something out of this? it's ultimately, very invaluable.

So I'm excited to see what happens next for you and, uh, hope to see you soon.

Ryan: Thanks, Adam.

[00:56:00]