"I find myself being too comfortable. If it gets too easy, maybe something is wrong and I need to shake things up." - Danaé Gosset

In this captivating conversation, Danaé Gosset shares her remarkable transformation from a rebellious French student kicked out of multiple schools to becoming the founder of Pencil TV, a acclaimed mixed-media animation studio. Her journey reveals how embracing difficulty, trusting intuition, and finding the right mentors can turn chaos into creative gold. 

Danaé discusses her unique approach to stop-motion animation, the power of silent retreats for creative breakthroughs, and why she deliberately chooses the harder path in both her work and life decisions, including her upcoming move from Paris to Los Angeles.

Key takeaways:

• Embrace the difficult path - Choosing harder processes often leads to more distinctive and meaningful creative work that stands out commercially
• Trust your inner compass - Even during chaotic periods, maintaining faith that "things will be okay" can guide you toward the right opportunities
• Create space for purposeless play - Not everything needs to serve a business goal; creative experimentation without agenda often becomes the source of breakthrough work
• Build creative habits like fitness - Treat personal creative work as essential maintenance, like going to the gym, rather than a luxury
• Use silence as a creative tool - Regular retreats from digital noise and social media can unlock deep creative insights and major life decisions
• Work with obsessive dedication when you find your calling - When you discover your true medium, the intensity of focus that emerges can accelerate your career exponentially
• Separate personal and commercial work - Maintain clear boundaries between client projects and personal expression to preserve artistic integrity and business relationships
• Teachers appear when you're ready - Being open and prepared attracts the mentors and opportunities you need at exactly the right moments
• Use healing practices to enhance creativity - Meditation, mindfulness, and therapeutic work can transform rebellious energy into productive creative fuel
• Put out the work you want to be hired for - The most effective portfolio strategy is creating personal projects that demonstrate exactly what you want to do professionally

Daring Forever. Podcast with Radim Malinic

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[00:00:10] Danae: you stay in this like tiny single hut in the middle of the forest and there's nothing else around.

[00:00:15] Danae: And I remember for that specific retreat, I felt very connected to nature and I started thinking about space and human existence and all of these existential thoughts. And when I came back to France and society, I had this like very urging thing in my, that I felt deeply in myself and my soul that I needed to express.

[00:00:38] Danae: And from that came, series of like small animation with like very shorts, shortcuts and match cuts and with a very dynamic pacing and rhythm that was related to human condition, the space,the planet, nature, et cetera. so quite like con contemplative subjects. .

[00:01:02] Welcome to the Daring Creativity Podcast, a show about daring to forever explore creativity that isn't about chasing shiny perfection. It's about showing up with all your doubts and imperfections and making them count. It's about becoming more of who you already are. My name is Radim Malinic. I'm a designer, author, and eternally curious human being.

[00:01:25] I am talking to a broad range of guests who share their stories of small actions that sparked lifetime discoveries, taking one step towards the thing that made them feel most alive. 

[00:01:37] Let me begin this episode with a question. Are you ready to discover what happens when you dare to create?

[00:01:50] Radim: My first guest of this season is Danae Gosset the founder and creative director of pencil tv, a multidisciplinary creative studio focused on [00:02:00] animation production, and graphic design.

[00:02:02] Radim: Dane's artistic vision is a mixture of a thorough aesthetic feature and dreamlike imagery designed to elicit emotions through visible brushstrokes and tactile hand drawn sensibility. in our conversation, she shares her remarkable transformation from a rebellious and often misunderstood student to become an acclaimed creative that she's today 

[00:02:23] Radim: Her journey reveals how embracing difficulty, trusting intuition, and finding the right mentors can turn chaos into creative gold. 

[00:02:32] Radim: She also discusses her unique approach to stop motion animation, the power of silent retreats for creative breakthroughs, and why she deliberately chooses the harder path from both her work and life decisions. It's my pleasure to welcome Danae Gossett.

[00:02:52] Radim: Hi Danae. How are you doing today? 

[00:02:55] Danae: Hi, we doing great. Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. 

[00:02:58] Radim: thank you for being here. And for [00:03:00] those who may have never heard of pencil TV or Danae Gosset said, how would you introduce yourself? 

[00:03:05] Danae: I would, uh, introduce myself as the founder and creative director of pencil tv. So pencil TV is my mixed media studio where we make mostly commercials and music videos. and the particularity of it all is that I like to things that are handmade and a mix of analog and physical techniques, 

[00:03:26] Danae: the purpose of my work is always trying to go in the difficult route of things in terms of the process, and that's kind of the, what I try to embody within all of the projects that I tackle. and yeah, the, and I also do some design work that's a bit less advertised because I do love to do a little bit of everything.

[00:03:45] 

[00:03:45] Danae: and I find it that people like it better when you're specialized into one thing. So that's like kind of my battle of these upcoming years is like to try to do as many things as possible in the different realm and try to succeed at it In [00:04:00] terms of, of yeah, like doing different things, I guess.

[00:04:03] Radim: you said, I like to make it difficult. there's not something that lots of people would like to admit or even search for.

[00:04:11] Radim: Like people search for doable, manageable, potentially easy. So your handmade approach and where you do, your stop motion creativity, like how did that come about? how do we trace it back to the beginning? 

[00:04:26] Danae: The beginning it started when I was in college and I think it was thanks to the position that you have.

[00:04:33] Danae: Naturally as a student and just being very experimental at heart, which is something that I find hard to maintain, as a professional creative where you're working, I think with more sets of rules and life gets in the way. but so I find myself being in that position of being a student and being in that freedom of experimenting really allowed me to tackle a lot of different experimentation.

[00:04:57] Danae: And this is where I started to get [00:05:00] very interested in and mix media practices. I specifically had a class with one of my teacher called Pablo Kin, and it was an independent study, so it wasn't like a full class with 30 different kids. It was like a one-on-one study with one teacher and one student.

[00:05:16] Danae: And he gave me a very open, assignment, which was just come up with anything you want and just do it every single day for an entire semester. And so I was like, okay, this is very broad. I do not know what I wanna do, but I knew, I remembered at the time, I was very much drawn to the subconscious mind and and very drawn to dreams.

[00:05:39] Danae: and I loved moving images. At the time I was studying graphic design at the school of Visual Arts, and I was in one other class with one of my teacher, Karen Goldberg, which is someone who changed also the course of my life for different reasons. But she told me, she was like, you're, I don't think you're, a traditional graphic designer.

[00:05:56] Danae: I think you should look into moving images. And that [00:06:00] conversation stayed with me. So when Pablo asked me like, what do you wanna do for this entire semester as a daily assignment? I was like, okay, I wanna try to learn animation and I wanna do things with my dreams. like something that relates to dreams.

[00:06:13] Danae: So something came to mind. I was like, okay, every day I wanna animate the dream I had the night before. And so it became sort of this exploration of my own mind plus, ga gaining some technical skills and also really filling my creativity. And for the first time ever, I followed through with something for more than a week because I used to get tired all the time and like switching ideas and practices every like a lot.

[00:06:40] 

[00:06:41] Danae: and I found myself in this sort of, routine, I guess. You know, it's like something that you build, it's almost like a muscle. It's a,I know that you've talked, a lot about this, about re resilience and having the best setup to do the work that you wanna do.

[00:06:54] Danae: And this. It came to me naturally and I started to become obsessed [00:07:00] with the process. and so every day I used to spend hours just learning about animation, reading all the books, like watching all the tutorials. And as I went and getting, having more confidence within my animation skills, I started to become very experimental.

[00:07:18] Danae: at the time I was also in my other class reading a book by Eduard de Bono about lateral thinking, which is the philosophy of, or like the idea of fueling creativity through association. It's find an idea with like mixing like a shoelace in a theater.

[00:07:35] Danae: And like, what would that be? You know, like very like fluxes mindset, like data mindset. so I applied also that thinking just like these thought processes and to that assignment. So I was like, what if I mix 3D with watercolor? And what if I mix, like film scratching with, with an after effects animation and what if I mix, stop motion with something else?

[00:07:58] Danae: And so it [00:08:00] became sort of this very. Intense creative burst of ideas. And I was every day trying something new on top of ga like gaining tho those technical skills. and that's how it started. And for an entire semester I did this assignment. It was very demanding, and every day. Also, like a cool part of it was that, I could collaborate with my brother who is a musician, so every day, just so it was, it also became an assignment for him because every day he used to make the music and the sound effects for the animation that I was sending him.

[00:08:31] Danae: So it was this like back to back, with someone that I really loved. Plus, you know, finding myself in this thing that kind of came to me by, chance, but also through the work and being resilient with it. And, that's how it started. 

[00:08:47] Radim: the tutor had got you to do one-on-one for the whole semester. I think is it luck? is it destiny? Is it fate? Because that's changed your life, right? 

[00:08:56] Danae: I have goosebumps even thinking about it because it is true.

[00:08:59] Danae: It's you know, [00:09:00] sometimes it, you just meet the right people at the right time and it's what can you do about it? If I didn't have this class, if I didn't have, it was a combination of things that just happened at the same moment, like reading that book, having my teacher that I should get into like more moving images.

[00:09:13] Danae: My, my teacher who gives me that freedom, like I had the tools, I had the space. It like, it just made sense at the time. It's like it's precious, magical moments I guess. 

[00:09:24] Radim: I think there's lots of horror stories where people say yeah, look, I went to uni and didn't really give me what I really needed.

[00:09:28] Radim: Whereas you find yourself in the right place in the right time, How do you find yourself at that particular uni? Like how did you find yourself there? what was the draw like? Why did you apply? What was the journey? 

[00:09:38] Danae: I don't think I was supposed to be here today in a way when I look back at things. 'cause I was, growing up I was very anxious I think in terms of I did not know what I wanted to be, what I wanted to do.

[00:09:51] Danae: I had a really hard time at school. I could not concentrate. I was very hyperactive. I was not grounded whatsoever. and I was getting, like, [00:10:00] kicked out of school. I did so many different schools, because I was, I had a bad attitude. and I just, the school system in France was very like, suited for people I guess.

[00:10:11] Danae: like me, I think I was, you know, it's very academic and you need to do well in school and I think I just wanted to be outside and look at the cloud. So I was kind of like that kid at the very end row who was just like, look outside all day and dreaming of being anywhere else but in on this chair.

[00:10:28] Danae: So it felt very difficult for me. and I actually, it like it got really bad and I got kicked out of, of one more school and then that was the end of it. So when I was, 16, I stopped going to, to school like all together. Because no school would take me. it was like the 10th school that I got kicked outta.

[00:10:47] Danae: And my parents were like, we don't know what to do with you. this is what do you want? So, and I was like, I don't know. So for two years I just didn't go to school. I still, passed my, actually I had a, well, [00:11:00] one more person who came in my life and kind of saved me was one of my old, French teacher, right before I got kicked out of the last call before I didn't return.

[00:11:09] Danae: He call, he found my number after I got kicked out. And he is and he told me, he was like, I don't think, I think you should follow through. I will help you just, so he tutored me for two years so that I could get my high school diploma. and so that's what he did. So he pulled me out of the, of my hole 'cause I was very depressed and very anxious.

[00:11:29] Danae: and he made me get like to a place where I could actually, move abroad if I wanted to. which was my plan. 'cause I was dating someone who had just moved to New York. So and I used to live in the States for a little bit as a kid. So I had a pretty, tight relationship with the US as I was growing up.

[00:11:46] Danae: And I always knew that I wanted to be in the States, so like the stars align and I wanted to be in, in New York. so I applied for a school. But I did not know what I wanted to do at all. I was not really [00:12:00] interested in arts really at that time. I mean, I always doodled, but you know, like nothing really serious with the, with an art practice.

[00:12:07] Danae: you know, some kids, they're just,they draw so much. since a very early age, I was more like,like a dreamer and not knowing where to put all my creative energy. so I found this code called New York Nstitute of Technology, because they had,like an Erasmus program with a French school. and it was like, like this PR program. And I, my French teacher who helped me, he was like, may, maybe you would be good in pr. And I'm like, okay, I guess so I just signed up for this school. And I got in. and when I got there, I had a meeting with the, like the council advisor, you know, the person who would,help you get your classes.

[00:12:45] Danae: And she looked at me and she's well, maybe you should go into TV production. And I was like, sure. Okay. not knowing at all what it meant. I just found myself in a TV production program when I thought I was in a PR school. You know, I was like not, I did [00:13:00] not know what I was doing whatsoever.

[00:13:02] Danae: and I got myself like, I didn't know. I was like, okay, sure. Like not knowing what, so it was kind of mad when I think about it. and in those programs you have to take some elective courses, you know, so I had a literature class that I had to attend to, and I was d at the time in my notebooks, like I used to, but not seriously.

[00:13:21] Danae: And my neighbor. was seeing what I was doing and he's oh, like you, you draw, well, you know, there's an art, program here. Like you should take some art classes. So he's actually, one other person that was very pivotal because before that, no one had looked at my drawings or told me that they were nice or that they should take drawing lessons or anything like that.

[00:13:41] Danae: So I, I. And then I went to drawing class and then boom. You know, like I, I started to sparkle and I was like, oh my God, this is so much fun. And after, when I finished the semester, by the time I finished, I switched to the graphic design program at this school who was not a graphic [00:14:00] design school.

[00:14:00] Danae: You know, they had many different majors. and so I did graphic design there for another semester and I was like, okay, like this is really, I really wanna do this, but now it's I really wanna be at,the best school for this. And this is when I applied to s and this is when I got in. And I guess the.

[00:14:16] Danae: Second, I stepped foot and inside of the school of Visual Arts, it's like I knew that I was in the right place and it's like I had fireworks in my brain and starting, because I was always considered like a lazy person during all of my upbringing, like my entire school set studies. Like I was lazy, to be fair.

[00:14:36] Danae: and then I transferred myself into a work machine where like I could not stop thinking about work and working. And I started to do like 16, 18 hour days fully. I was just like weekends every single day became obsessed with it. Like I, and I didn't think that I was, that I could ever find the, this fuel in me.

[00:14:57] Danae: And yeah. So, so, so that was pretty [00:15:00] crazy. 

[00:15:00] Radim: I wanna really know how much of the anxiety and the hyperactivity was there during the process until you step through the doors of the SVA because you find your purpose, you find your, safe place. You find your new home. I think this is, it's a wonderful story that.

[00:15:17] Radim: I'm so happy that you had all these people that sort of showed you the next path of your, of your journey. And it kind of reminds me a bit of your work because there's characters and they show up and it's it almost seems like there's always a sort of guiding light or there's a guiding person that says, this is the way you go.

[00:15:33] Radim: So the dreams and the direction and that sort of journey, it comes through your work now, which,it's magical to know that's was your life. Obviously it wasn't sunshine and ice cream for very long time. You know, it sounds indeed chaotic. And I do wanted to know, like when you moved to the states, when must, when you had your tutor who appeared and obviously helped you to actually be in a position where you can go to states and actually start study in PR and then [00:16:00] DB production, 

[00:16:01] Radim: was there still inner turmoil when you find yourself going from PR to tv or did you just go with the flow and some of your anxieties were just sort of more subsided? Or were you still sort of having an internal fight about where you were and what you were doing because you were already on, on, on the way somewhere else?

[00:16:18] Danae: I did not know what I was doing, honestly. I think I was just letting it happen to me. so I think I was not in a t per se 'cause I was like, just so out of it in a way, you know? especially at the time I was, in the. Yeah, like I had a really hard time on a,on a personal level and trying to find my place in the world.

[00:16:38] Danae: And I think when I moved to New York, I already felt calmer than I was in Paris because I was pretty, you know, doing like some self disruptive behavior. So I think already being in another country, felt really calming. so I think I was more in a mindset of letting it happen and I felt calmer than I had before.

[00:16:56] Danae: But still, I don't know why. I think I always felt like [00:17:00] things were gonna, maybe it was totally like, like delusional, but I always had this inner feeling that things were gonna be okay. and I think I felt closer to my goal when I was in the States. and even if I was in the wrong school, I feel like I was on the right path.

[00:17:16] Danae: so I, like my mind was more at peace than it was like a few months prior when I was telling France. 

[00:17:24] Radim: I can definitely relate to it. I think that when you have a change of scenery and start afresh, and all of the troubles kind of just fall away slowly. And again, I think that was again, for you, that was the next door into the new world, into the next chapter, into the new, story.

[00:17:41] Radim: So with the sub, with the subconscious and the dreams and the experimentation. So as you said, you went, it was a natural draw and people sort of, people picked up on the fact that, you know, your sketchbook looks good. it's a different story between sketching and then using creativity almost on endurance basis.

[00:17:58] Radim: 'cause if you were creating for [00:18:00] 16 hours a day, how did you find it? was initially it was, we all have the honeymoon, like everything feels great because it's a new thing. But how did you find it, like going from almost zero to thousand? 

[00:18:13] Danae: So good. Oh my God. It's felt breathing for the first time.

[00:18:16] Danae: Its something that I wish for everyone to find, like to have this. and I hope that I do find it in my life later in some other forms. Because when I look back at the intensity, I dont know what,wish I had like a map of my brain and seeing because I am sure it was like fireworks everywhere.

[00:18:33] Danae: it felt really good. And it was a honeymoon phase during my entire school years. and I think like that resilience that I had was really like a building a muscle. and what is interesting now is that I find myself like. I was much more resilient, I think, when I was in college than because that is all that my energy went.

[00:18:54] Danae: Like all of my mental charge went was only like to be a student. [00:19:00] You know? It's like now I have to think about so many different things. and it's like you have to create this space, whereas before your life is that space in a way. so it's, I found it much more challenging. so now it's really hard to be at a.

[00:19:14] Danae: I think it's,I keep on going back and forth, but I think it, you know, it's kind of like meditation where like you start to meditate and everything is going well, and then you have a thought and then you wander out and then you just need to pull yourself back again. So I find myself in that spirit of it's okay if you let it slip for a second when you just try to center yourself with the back, with the work.

[00:19:38] Danae: Because I do know, it's like once you know how it feels to be in that flow state. with the work and for a longer period of time and how like your life just lights up once. You know that, which I've experienced like so many times thing and this is like the best feeling ever. Then it's something that, it's so addicting, you know?

[00:19:58] Danae: It's like you, you [00:20:00] try to have it and when it slips out, you ask yourself like, how did it slip? Why don't I have it? You know, you crave it and creating space for it is actually,it takes work, and I used to not have to think about that when I was in college and, being so much in immersed because it was just like my day to day.

[00:20:16] Danae: And now it's like I have to find strategies and trick my brain and have rituals and routines.

[00:20:21] 

[00:20:24] Radim: I looked up a quote, from Twila tha it said, creativity is a habit and the best creativity is, the result of good work habits, you know, is there is a different way of getting flow stays when we are younger because we are slightly unaware of the surrounding.

[00:20:39] Radim: We are a lot more selfish, a lot more self-focused, and like I can focus on my craft. 

[00:20:43] Radim: Whereas the older we get, we got a lot more patience and a little bit less energy and a lot more noise in our lives. And I think it's just that way of that. Maybe do we need to make peace with the fact the creativity might get easier because you know your craft, you know your tools, you know [00:21:00] your processes, but the inner battles and the outside influences, you know, because we think that there'll be no more problems.

[00:21:07] Radim: You like, okay, we've worked on our craft for so long, this should not work. And you realize itself well, okay, you need, as you said, you need to create rituals and habits, like how to really immerse yourself in this because we add extra data points to our brain every day. And sometimes, they are fighting for our attention and you're like, no, I need to be creative.

[00:21:28] Radim: I need to do my stuff. It's like, how do you, apply resilience? 'cause you used the word resilience I think, something that I'm picking up from the story, You had to have a lot of resilience in your, you know, school days to get through this. Because being kicked out over and over again doesn't exactly.

[00:21:46] Radim: A beginning of a really interesting story on paper. It was just like, what is gonna happen next? Whereas everything's changed. So, in your way of creativity, what are your habits to get into flow states? What do you do? Because I [00:22:00] know, and you're not on a regular mortal in a way, because I know you meditate, you go to the silent retreats, you actually look after your mind and kind of prepare yourself for the next endurance.

[00:22:12] Radim: Huh. Event, creative event. So what'd you do? 

[00:22:16] Danae: Yeah. Well, it's interesting. I think, I think I've forced myself, you know, you, you just mentioned the design retreats, to me it's a must, in for my mind to recalibrate. Because I find the world to be very intense and you know, like the overwhelming of the, your, the phone addiction and social media.

[00:22:38] Danae: And I am like, I just sometimes like you, I just end up losing myself a bit, you know? so this, I have go, I have been going to silent retreats for the past five years now. And, and I go there, like I, try to go like three times a year or something. And,what I find that it's helped me reset and really find myself again [00:23:00] in a way, so right be, because I just came back from one, like a few days ago.

[00:23:05] Danae: And I was really looking forward to it. because I was in a really noisy space, and I was really struggling to find the space to, be creative. and I was like, okay, maybe maybe I need a few days with no phone and try to see if I can, find my plug again. And I got there and all I did was paint.

[00:23:23] Danae: And now it's I'm back and I paint again. And it's I'm not afraid of making mistakes. I just take random pieces of paper and I start painting on it. and I'm not trying for it like, to be perfect or beautiful. Like, I'm just trying to do stuff like try to be productive, like in whatever form it is.

[00:23:42] Danae: so I, you know, I have this watercolor paper and I just do like color association. It's like what happens if I just draw it like a geometric. thing on it, and there's this quote that I've heard, I wanna add these words onto it. and just very loose. And then now I'm finding myself doing a whole series of random watercolor paintings.

[00:23:59] Danae: [00:24:00] And I don't know if it's gonna go anywhere in terms of my animation practice. And it doesn't need to, you know, I, I think that's also the problem. It's sometimes I think creatives or I, but I'll speak for myself. It's I'll try to do things that have a purpose. It's like, how is this gonna help me for my business?

[00:24:15] Danae: How is this gonna help me get new clients? Or you know, trying to be strategic about something whereas I actually did this doesn't even matter. that's not what I want. It's what I want is just to let some things out. I don't know what it is and I don't need to know. I just this is good for my soul, this is good for my brain.

[00:24:35] Danae: this is essential for me, like, this is how I honor myself and I take care of myself. same as going to the gym, and I don't know why sometimes it feels so much easier to not do these things. It is so much easier to not go to the gym or not go for around rather than go.

[00:24:53] Danae: but we all know that it's better for your health if you exercise and add some cardio to your routine, right? So that's the same thing. And I was [00:25:00] very interested in habit stacking. I've read this book by James Claire, like a called Atomic Habits, which is really good. And, you know, it's no, I think he mentions in it, it's like the hardest part of going for Iran is putting on.

[00:25:12] Danae: Then it's what are you gonna do? just just have your running shoes and and go eat a pizza. No. like usually that's the first step and then you just go for a run. And it's the same thing for being created. It's if I have, you know, it's like I'll, if I take out a watercolor paper and I have my watercolors out, like I'm probably just gonna go paint.

[00:25:30] Danae: I'm not gonna go do something else. So, and having these visual cues, it's like I'll keep like some paint out or I could,we'll keep my materials close by. It's like I've tried to keep the things that are good for me on a visual, at at a visual level and try to make it very easy for me to access and what is bad for me, obviously, I try to give away from my gaze.

[00:25:53] Radim: I wanna talk to you about silence. 'cause you said, I mean, we are all spectacularly addicted to our phones. [00:26:00] Spectacularly, I mean, it's almost comical when you look around, you and people are working with their phones. People can't see you like. there's benefits of having these devices in our pockets because, we can consume content in a different way than we've got more, again, more access to more information, more knowledge.

[00:26:16] Radim: But, oh my God. You know, sometimes you feel like there's days where you're like, I cannot win. I had to go to bed and we start tomorrow again. So I want to talk about silence you say you go for a few days and you go up to three times a year for the last five years, but when you leave that phone away, when you leave everything behind and you just focus on this, like what goes through your mind?

[00:26:36] Radim: What is that sort of almost what I call the mind inventory? do you go and clear out the clutter? Like how, tell us about the benefits and about the feelings and the experience of silent retreats. 

[00:26:47] Danae: Yeah, so weirdly enough, I don't miss my phone at all when I'm, when I don't have it, you know, it's I don't even think about it for a second.

[00:26:57] Danae: I'm just like, it's such a [00:27:00] relief almost, you know? It's like you're just alone with yourself. And like, how does that feel? It's like when you don't have a distraction because to the side, which should I go? It's like you don't have books. you're not really supposed to meditate or have activities.

[00:27:13] Danae: Like the point of it is to really be alone with yourself. The only thing that you, that you can do if you want, is like to write or paint or draw. Like everything that is like a self expression form. and I find that it's interesting, so the first day of the, because I do it for five days, sometimes I do it for 10, this time around, I did it for five, no, actually for six.

[00:27:36] Danae: and so I find that the first day, it's usually like a lot of my ma my mind is scanning a lot of,the superficial, I like, I'll think about like the a TV show that I've just watched. I'll think about like some surface level things, like an email I had with the client. And so I feel like my mind is scanning through my everyday sort of routine.

[00:27:56] 

[00:27:57] Danae: and then I get into deeper things, you know, [00:28:00] then I'm like, I start to question, my choices, like where am I with my life? what do I wanna do? and I find that oftentimes some really deeply rooted things come out. and this is actually because I'm moving to Los Angeles and at the end of the month, which is a, like a pretty major thing that is happening in my life at the moment.

[00:28:23] Danae: and it came out during one of those retreats, for reasons that just makes sense with where I wanna be and,for many different reasons. and I made that decision during my last retreat. Like not this one, but the one prior and, it comforted me in this idea and I finally jumped, made that leap.

[00:28:43] Danae: which is something that I was kind of trying to push down, because I have such a nice setup in France. So what I'm doing right now is very disruptive and it's likedisruptive in the way that it's like right now. I'm very comfortable and I think this is also why I need to shake things [00:29:00] up.

[00:29:00] Danae: I'm like, I'm too comfortable. And this is actually not the same mentality with the work. It's too easy. It's not, it means maybe something is wrong. and that's how I feel with my life as well. It's like if it gets too comfortable, then maybe there's a few things that I should shake up.

[00:29:15] 

[00:29:15] Radim: I think the word difficult comes back in. it has to be difficult. It can't be just easy, like you said, you know, like at the beginning, like I look for a challenge. I look for difficult, but you and I met in Mexico at Paradiso, and we met and we started talking because there was an activity which was too busy for both of us.

[00:29:34] Radim: We were like, there's too many people in a eNote. I can't do this. It was like, and it's just almost a,it was a metaphor for. How everything operates right now. You know, you get too many people in one space. You've got too much information in one,pocket of corner of the internet.

[00:29:50] Radim: You know, you got, there's these busy spaces and when you personally, when you run away from it, or not run away from it, but when you move away from it, you [00:30:00] tell yourself, oh, is this what I'm doing good for my business? 

[00:30:02] Radim: The most amazing things often come up from the ways when you don't expect anything because you can create a state of flow and unless you approach it, like with beginner's mind thinking, I know nothing about this, and anything can happen, it's more than often possible to actually put yourself under undue pressure.

[00:30:21] Radim: Okay, well I've got everything set up and I've got a deadline and this has to work. there's nothing worse about it because you can be in the perfect flow, but you can still be creating a false narrative, like I'm worried about what this might be.

[00:30:33] Radim: Whereas when you meander in this sort of open space of your mind going I'm gonna draw, I'm gonna try, I'm gonna think more than often, those activities will be actually beneficial to your business because you had time to, reopen that sand page and play with the bids that normally would be restricted.

[00:30:49] Radim: So just like you said, when you had your one-on-one project, like you were able to experiment, you were able to do things and there was almost no rules, which is you know, how can you do that? So [00:31:00] the silence. I think sometimes scary. You know, I think we don't want to necessarily always audit our mind, our business, our lives.

[00:31:10] Radim: 'cause we,it's nice to pretend that there's no issues. Well, I say it's nice, it's a false economics, you know, like sometimes it's better to pretend that there's nothing wrong. But when you come to head on with your mind and actually listen to your mind, you're like, what are some actually nice things to find in there?

[00:31:26] Radim: one time, it's no watercolor, another time it's, let's move to la. so on your quest for difficult, on your quest for challenges. I mean, as you said, it's nice to have a sort of comfortable setup.

[00:31:37] Radim: It's something that we can sometimes strive for, but when we get there, it's like, how do I find more of work and sort of challenge me? So. Should we talk about your move? Let's talk about what you're planning to do and set up in la. 

[00:31:51] Danae: Yeah, that's a good question. I am doing a big leap of faith, honestly.

[00:31:58] Danae: I think [00:32:00] I really, I do miss the states. I think, well, all, most of my clients are in the US and a lot of them are actually in California. I think a lot of things, like great things, you know, with film animation are, have, are happening there. I have a few good, really good friends that are there. I would love to be in nature, but also be in a city.

[00:32:20] Danae: So, so, so those were like kind of my, my, my parameters. I would love to see the ocean every day, and hike. although it's kind of comical because I do not have my driver's license. So in Los Angeles, I think that I, it's the first thing that I should do is to take my test. well, I'll try at least, but I've tried to get it in France and I failed miserably a few times.

[00:32:43] Danae: so that's my plan is like going there, obviously, try to get my license and yeah, I don't know. Like I, I will, I'm just gonna give it a try. If it doesn't work, it's fine, you know? like if I hate it in six months, I know it's okay. I can come back to Paris. [00:33:00] It'll be a small failure. but it's okay.

[00:33:03] Danae: You know, 

[00:33:04] Radim: I think you'll land on your feet. I like the reasons that you go in there with, because it's you don't go with a dream. You go there with a plan and a purpose, and, As someone once said, you know, for people who move away from home to somewhere, they can always go back home and, rebuild and start again.

[00:33:18] Radim: But that's just the sort of that sort of safety net that you can have. But I wanna talk about more work because I can now I've sort of traced it back to why do you work the way you work? But I find it from someone who used to work solely digitally for years and years, literally decades. I like that immediacy of digital sort of nature.

[00:33:43] Radim: Whereas your work in a way, I've seen your scanner and your paints and like frame by frame. I'm like, I don't have the patience for that. I absolutely admire it. did it all start with that yearly project and did you build that understanding of stop motion from that?

[00:33:59] Danae: yes. So, [00:34:00] so it, it is a practice or like that technique that I usually do, which is that blend between 3D and analog I started to do there. And then that teacher actually hired me the summer, like after my graduation to work on a music videos where we applied some of what I was doing during that experimentational, uh, phase on that music video together for that summer, which was really cool.

[00:34:25] Danae: And then another, and then I had some friends that were working on a music video for Ky the artist, like the studio art camp with, Santiago, who I was also dating at the time. And, and sad Muji, who's like an incredible 3D artist. And, And so Santi saw like what I was doing during all of my, school years and my experimental techniques.

[00:34:51] Danae: And so he got this brief and he had the vision of putting sad and I together sad who was a 3D artist and me who was doing, [00:35:00] when I was doing like a lot of, experimental me mixed media and by frame animation. And so it was a very in, in his own, eyes. You know, it was kind of also like a lateral thinking sort of thing because he saw that, he saw me, he was like mixed media artist, like amazing 3D guy.

[00:35:16] Danae: let's put them together and see what happens. and so I started to work with sad on and doing so much experiments and together we made, we made, the music video a pearl by the artist Mitski. and the video got really well received within the animation world and the music video, sphere and you know, I had just graduated from college and I was like, oh my God.

[00:35:40] Danae: what, what is happening? this isn't really supposed to happen this past. but so yeah, it was a very like, strong entry into the workforce. like an incredible collaboration. and it felt really good to, to have that incredible experience like right off college.

[00:35:56] Danae: so yeah. So, so, so that's when it started. And then I worked, I took a [00:36:00] break from, from doing that mixed media style. 'cause I got a job at like my strain wash, a few months after we finished, the music video. I had just came back actually from Argentina with Ante. 'cause we had shot a documentary about a sign painter there.

[00:36:15] Danae: And I came back and I think I started, at Stro Walsh one month after that. which was a great move because there e even though I had done like so many internships, it was actually like, I started off as an intern and then I got hired,as a designer and motion, and motion designer.

[00:36:32] Danae: But it's like you really get to see how a studio is structured and how a studio operates. And you have so many different moving pieces, like producer, designers, art directors, and I was working closely with Jessica, Walsh and that was just incredible. And I also had the chance to be there during the transition of Segment Master and Washington into N Walsh.

[00:36:55] Danae: So I gotta see a studio launch, everything. I learned so much there. I'm [00:37:00] so grateful to, to have been part of that team. I made really, really good friends there, really. everyone was so nice, really. and working with Jessica, I mean, I think she's a genius really. just being in her presence and seeing how she works,was incredible.

[00:37:16] Danae: And that I felt really lucky. Then I got back into the mixed media stuff after. 

[00:37:21] Radim: Some people might find it almost enviable because, well, there's two sides, basically, there's two parts to your story.

[00:37:27] Radim: There's the part that no one would really want, which is like being kicked out of school and obviously not being able to fit any mold and, almost not having any light at the back of the tunnel. okay, where am I heading? there's nothing. And then there's a switch and there's plenty of light, you know, and the light go in and you flourish.

[00:37:46] Radim: And you are, you know, on a journey literally with all these guides that they sort of show you the next sort of chapter of your life, of your creative life. And I mean, I'm so happy that [00:38:00] you've had all of these, Important people, like some of the biggest names that we can think of actually to learn from.

[00:38:06] Radim: did you ever feel intimidated by the genius? Did you feel like, oh shit, I need to step up, or this is too much? Or how did that feel? Because, you know, not everyone goes from I dunno what I wanna do. And within a few years you're working with Stefan Sist to be like, oh, this is escalated quickly.

[00:38:24] Danae: It has indeed. But to be fair, I think I worked like a crazy lunatic person. so I, I did get really lucky in terms of the people that came that, that have crossed my path. but I do think I had this mentality of I am gonna get it. Like when I got the internship at like my stern loss, I was like.

[00:38:45] Danae: I didn't come in with the intern view on, on, on it. I was like, I'm getting a job at the end of this internship.  I had a plan, I had a goal. The goal was really clear. It's like, why do I need to get my goal? It's I'm gonna work crazy. I'm gonna do [00:39:00] amazing work.

[00:39:00] Danae: I'm gonna be really nice. I'm gonna be supportive. I'm gonna be a good person. I'm gonna be like a good teammate. And I had all this list in my head of the things that I needed to do. It's I'm always available. You can call me at 2:00 AM on a Sunday. I'll be there. You know, it's, that was my mentality.

[00:39:16] Danae: Maybe it's, I know it's like some people would really don't like that, but to me, that was what I needed to be doing. and I've put myself in those places too. I've reached out, I was very active on social media, on LinkedIn.

[00:39:30] Danae: I don't, I was act like actively trying to get to where I wanted to be. so I do, and when I do look back into the chaos that have brought me there, I think it was almost a fuel for me. I, and I think it's like everyone can find their fuel. My fuel was like proving all these people wrong that have told me that I would never be anything in life and that I would, you know, end up, like doing terribly and it, to me it's like that was my revenge.

[00:39:56] Danae: it's like, it's something that have less today obviously, but to [00:40:00] me that was like my fuel. It was this almost anger that I had of, you know, people. very little of me or thinking that I was incapable of doing anything. And I think if you're not mad about something, maybe you can be mad about, like, not mad because it's like a negative emotion, but do you have a fuel?

[00:40:15] Danae: And if so, what is it? You know? so yes, it, it definitely like incredible, surroundings and mostly thanks to being within like the SBA community and the fact that I was able to leave Paris. but then it's great, like you're in the spot. What are you gonna do now? Which is something that I do take pride in the fact that I've, really did everything that I, that was in my power to get the things that I.

[00:40:41] Radim: If anyone's listening to this, and the audience of this show is a little bit older, but if anyone's listening to this at the beginning of their career, especially this moment, that's how you get where you want to get. Like you do work hard, like you make yourself available. You make yourself keen. When you live and breathe, what do you want to do? The universe sees [00:41:00] it and opens the door for you because that's the energy, that mindset, that determination, especially at that time is important because maybe the world has changed now and we expect the universe to find us or find other people that sort of thinking, well, here's my portfolio.

[00:41:19] Radim: I'm waiting. I'm sitting and waiting. Whereas the power of just asking a single question like, okay, I want that door to be open and this is what I can do it now, I. It's magical because it's, it will work forever. And I think the more people are just sitting behind their Instagram profiles, hoping that studios will find them.

[00:41:36] Radim: you knock on every door and you knock until they open that door. When they open and shut it in your face, you knock on again. Say, Hey, actually I'm still here. I'm still keen because in my studio I always used to say that I used to employ not the best talent, but the one that never went away.

[00:41:51] Radim: ' I wasn't looking to employ all the time. But when some people just wouldn't go away, I was like, well, let's have, let's see what you can do. let's see what? What can we do with you because. [00:42:00] That's, I think sometimes a bigger measure of how much you wanted and who you want to be and how good you want to be, rather than, well, look, this is my amazing portfolio.

[00:42:10] Radim: No, how much you gonna pay me. It's like you can go away. Like I wanna work with someone who is actually scrappy and, challenging and because that's where sort of magic happens, rather than going, well, you got the right ingredient, but not that, with your style. And as you've got copy of the book that I wrote, which is called Creativity for Sale, I talk about magic formula.

[00:42:31] Radim: I talk about that sort of the need for celebrating uniqueness when you see a lot of motion work coming out on weekly basis with studios who are incredible and they've got their ways of working. You've created very own sort of signature style. if you were to do a lineup of five different pieces, you might think that the five different pieces from different agencies are just one agency.

[00:42:55] Radim: But if I put your piece next to it, I would know it's exactly, you, it's a [00:43:00] benefit to have your personal style, but does it ever make you feel that you might need to compromise, you might need to change, or are you lucky that you can still pursue your way of working and your signature style despite sometimes commercial requirements?

[00:43:17] Danae: Yeah. it that, that's interesting. I think to me it's like working on personal pieces. it's like, uh, stretching in the morning, you know, it's like I need to do this. And actually I found that like the more you put something personal, then brands will approach you for that specific work.

[00:43:32] Danae: so whereas it really depends on the reference that they have of your work. but I find that, you know, I mean, it's pretty easy formula. The formula is put out the work that you wanna be hired for. like that is almost always the case. So if I wanna, go somewhere else, then I think the work will adapt.

[00:43:51] Danae: But it is hard. But in, for example, like the, because it's actually quite funny, like when I'm, I came back from a silent retreat like a year and a half ago or something like [00:44:00] that, and, I, it was a retreat for some reason that I felt, you know, so I'm, you stay in this like tiny single hut in the middle of the forest and there's nothing else around.

[00:44:11] Danae: And I remember for that specific retreat, I felt very connected to nature and I started thinking about space and human existence and all of these existential thoughts. And when I came back to France and society, I had this like very urging thing in my, that I felt deeply in myself and my soul that I needed to express.

[00:44:34] Danae: And from that came, series of like small animation with like very shorts, shortcuts and match cuts and with a very dynamic pacing and rhythm that was related to human condition, the space,the planet, nature, et cetera. so quite like con contemplative subjects. And like my first reel on it, it had like millions of views [00:45:00] and actually gave me like incredible amount of followers.

[00:45:03] Danae: and so I did this theory for about a year and I had a lot of personal, like a commercial projects from it. I did something for Google, I did something for Drake's, perfume line. like a few different things. Like I don't have everything in my right now, but you know, did bring me clients from this thing that was like deeply personal and gave me like,like a lot of followers and a lot of views, et cetera.

[00:45:24] Danae: so I think it all intertwines and now it's like I don't really have that same urge 'cause it came to me so naturally to make these, to make these clip. ' cause it was inside of me and it was just like bursting, you know? I was just like, oh my God. I need to put this out or else I'll have a heart attack.

[00:45:41] Danae: And I think you, it's something that you felt so deeply. It's ah, what? what can I do with this? now I'm on a different thing. It's like I, I don't think, maybe I'll do them again in the future, but it's like I'm kind of experiment. I'm playing, which is also great.

[00:45:56] Danae: and maybe from those plays something else will come. I don't know. We'll see. [00:46:00] 

[00:46:00] Radim: I love that we are basically tracing back some of your breakthroughs in your careers back to silence. Everything's kind of been linked to silence and nature and sometimes you think, I always, what's the right word to use?

[00:46:16] Radim: Like when people say, which gallery do you go for inspiration? It was like, I. The high street, that's this, you go and see people, how people behave and you know, when you step away actually, when you have space to hear yourself, maybe that's where, as you said, it was burst and it was there because how often do we almost worry that there's nothing in there?

[00:46:36] Radim: So we go somewhere else to fill it with someone else's jug. We feel like, no, the glass is empty and we're gonna, okay, we'll pour something else in there. Whereas II think your connections to nature, to silence and subconscious and the dreams do make that work really sort of stand out 

[00:46:53] Radim: do you ever feel like you have to almost purposely invent, something that people like clients might want? Because it [00:47:00] sounds like you working on impulses, you know, you make current and mixing watercolors and drawing shapes on it and just doing things.

[00:47:06] Radim: They still flow out of you, but did you ever feel that you wanna get ahead of the curve of advertising or like a brand advertising that you know, you invent something that potentially doesn't exist so more clients can come to you. Does it make sense? Right. So do you ever feel that way or do you just go, you know what, it's gonna come out, when it's gonna come out?

[00:47:25] Danae: Oh no, I'm actually very, I think, for, I'm really good, I think with client work, and I'm very like, I'm very flexible, you know, it's like client work is client work. It's I'm not trying to like, sure, if you want me to be really experimental, I can propose these, new techniques and let's create something amazing and new together.

[00:47:45] Danae: If that's not the case, that's not the case. It's I'm like, you know, commercial work is commercial work for me. It's like my personal work is my personal work. I adapt, I can give suggestions. if it doesn't work for the client, then it doesn't work for the client. You know, it's I'm not there to pick fives.

[00:47:59] Danae: I'm [00:48:00] trying to do my best work within the parameters that are given. Sometimes it's more rigid than others and it's okay, you know. I don't take feedbacks personally. I'm like, I don't know why, but I'm like. very good with deadlines. I'm like never late to anything. but in general, in my life, which is so counter like some, you know, it's like, you, you would expect me to be late and be messy, but that's like weirdly not the case.

[00:48:25] 

[00:48:25] Danae: and and yeah, like I think I have just different may maybe it's just like a sense of morals of that, that, that come into place. I don't really know from where. 'cause it, it's also funny 'cause I used to be like, to resist so much like a, like authority and like in hierarchy or anything that is being told to me.

[00:48:42] Danae: And now I found maybe through the healing process that I've done for, throughout the years and like my healing practices and my mindfulness practices. I think I'm just like a very like, different person now where I, whereas, you know, like I just take things very lightly. and very easily.

[00:48:58] Danae: but yeah, so I think. They [00:49:00] all did these things. They all speak to each other, personal commercial. But then it's okay, like understanding the boundaries and and I think be, being flexible is so important. 

[00:49:10] Radim: Really. I love that you used the word healing.

[00:49:12] Radim: it's so far it's story of two halves and maybe there'll be a next chapter, but what you said was really important is I've done work on yourself. You are in the process of healing. You're creating the conditions 

[00:49:25] Radim: you are not taking the world for granted. You're not taking the world as it comes to you. You create your own sort of way, how to absorb it and how to work with it and how to sort of put yourself out there that provides you with these. almost conditions of I'm flexible, I'm happy to, when I'm working for other clients, it's creativity for sale.

[00:49:45] Radim: you know, it's on their budget, it's on their money. let's do this. And it looks like maybe the rebellious chapter of your life was where all of that happened, and you brought a different version of yourself, to what you do now. [00:50:00] When I saw you in Mexico, we talked about a favorite quote, and what's your favorite quote?

[00:50:06] Danae: I think, I don't even know who said this, but it's this, quote that says, when the, and I know it in French, I'll, I'm translating in my mind it's,when the student is ready, the teacher shows up.

[00:50:17] Radim: And isn't it just so poignant that No, the teacher showed up when you were ready. 

[00:50:26] Danae: Yeah. And it, and if, and usually for horrible things, like sometimes it's for horrible things, but you know, it's like they're testing you 'cause you're ready to take it on.

[00:50:35] Danae: I think 

[00:50:37] Radim: what a beautiful way to summarize this conversation. Because yeah, the teacher will show up when a student is ready. I love what you do. 

[00:50:44] Radim: I salute you for what you're doing, what you've got so far. Your story is fascinating. Your work is even, you know, more engaging and mesmerizing. So can't wait what you see now with the, with the LA sunshine and you know, all of these life inputs that you can put into [00:51:00] your existence and see where it takes you because yeah, I'm excited for you.

[00:51:03] Radim: So thank you for your time today. 

[00:51:04] Danae: thank you so much, Freddi. This was really fun. Thank you for everything you do. 

[00:51:08] Radim: You're most welcome. Thank you. Thank 

[00:51:10] Danae: you.

[00:51:21] Thank you for listening to this episode of Daring Creativity Podcast. I'd love to know your thoughts, questions, and suggestions, So please get in touch via the email, in the show notes or social channels. This episode was produced and presented by me. Radim Malinic.

[00:51:36] The audio production was done by Neil Mackay from 7 million Bucks Podcast. Thank you and I hope to see you on the next episode.

[00:51:45]