In this episode, Radim sits down with Rik Oostenbroek — Dutch visual artist, digital pioneer, and restless creative explorer — for a wide-ranging conversation that moves between nostalgia, grief, identity, and the strange beauty of not knowing what comes next. 

Rik reflects on two decades of carving his own path through commercial illustration, abstract digital art, the NFT world, and now the physical realm of screenprinting and sculpture, always guided by the same curiosity that drove him as a 14-year-old discovering DeviantArt.

The conversation is also a tribute to their mutual friend and creative force, Rutger Rutger Paulusse, who passed away recently, and whose influence on Rik's move toward physical making is one of the episode's most moving threads.

Key Takeaways

• Staying connected to the version of yourself that first fell in love with the work is not nostalgia — it's a survival strategy for sustaining a long creative career
• The early internet art community thrived precisely because there were no tutorials; being forced to ask another person built deeper connections than any algorithm can replicate
• Commercial success and artistic authenticity require constant, conscious negotiation — comfort can arrive too soon and pull you away from what truly makes your work feel like yours
• The NFT movement gave digital artists something the agency world rarely did: the experience of being seen as artists rather than production tools
• Translating digital work into physical form is an act of surrender and discovery — CMYK will never match RGB, and that limitation can become a new creative constraint worth embracing
• Protecting a separate personal life from creative identity is not avoidance — it is how some artists sustain the passion and playfulness their work depends on
• The people who push you hardest toward your best self leave the deepest mark; honouring their legacy means doing the very things they dared you to do

Daring Forever. Podcast with Radim Malinic

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 [00:00:00] 

Rik:  the way he, always approached life and work. I was, very much a believer of once he was too comfortable with something, he moved on and he did something totally else. And money was never his motivation to do that. And that's something he always preached for, make it fun, like he only live one life make sure it's fun and don't direct yourself into repeating yourself too much for clients or just stick close to your core.

what he did. He's started with graffiti, like was his first personal Creative expression. he went back to like his last two years he spent doing that and, gonna release a book, of like pieces of his that he photographed himself.

He also took that very, serious,  

Speaker: Welcome to the Daring [00:01:00] Creativity Podcast, a show about daring to forever explore creativity that isn't about chasing shiny perfection. It's about showing up with all your doubts and imperfections and making them count. It's about becoming more of who you already are. My name is Radim Malinic I'm a designer, author, and eternally curious human being.

 I am talking to a broad range of guests who share their stories of small actions that sparked lifetime discoveries, taking one step towards the thing that made them feel most alive. 

 Let me begin this episode with a question. Are you ready to discover what happens when you dare to create? 

Speaker 2: Today I'm speaking with Rik Oostenbroek, a Dutch visual artist and a lifelong creative explorer who has spent over two decades building a singular body of work. Rik has always been guided by the curiosity [00:02:00] of his 14-year-old self. His career spans major brand commissions and gallery exhibitions.

A celebrated place in the early internet art community, And a pivotal chapter in the NFT movement. Yet, through every shift, Rik has remained stubbornly beautifully himself. In this conversation, we explore what it means to protect your creative identity over a long career, why a mystery in art matters more than ever, and how the loss of a dear friend became the push to finally get his hands dirty.

It's my pleasure to share with you my conversation with Rik Oostenbroek.

Radim: Hey Rik, it's great to see you today. How are you doing?

Rik: Hey, rod, thank you so much having me. good. surviving to small kids, brand new studio. exciting times, new year, new energy, experimenting with tons of new mediums as we [00:03:00] should in this time. I think. yeah, excited.

Radim: I like the dissonance, like surviving to young kids, but a lot of energy. Rik, you and I, would like to dedicate this episode to our friend Ru Palooza, who sadly left this planet way too early, way too talented, way too of an amazing person. just appreciate this opportunity that you and I can, and I'll briefly talk about him later, about who he was and how amazing and how important he was to us.

But yeah, I wanna dedicate the episode to him because it's, a tragedy what happened, too young, too early to everything because yeah, his, talent was bigger than life. yeah. It's great to have you here and obviously we'll talk about him in a second. But for those who may have not heard of you or what you do, how would you introduce yourself?

Rik: Ooh, that's always a challenging thing. people always put different stamps on me. Like Rik is an illustrator, Rik is a graphic designer. Rik is artist even. always find it a bit hard, so I try to keep it as broad as possible these days where I'm [00:04:00] always working with visuals. So visual artists might sound quite posh, maybe a little bit too posh me, I think it makes sense these days as I'm traveling through different mediums exploring, form and color. that could be from animation to simple branding things. So whatever's visual, I love it and I love to work with it.

Radim: I've known your journey for the last, I'm trying to count because you and I met in 2012 in person, but I've been aware of you for many years prior, and. You are one of the people who has not only weathered the changes in the industry for the last, let's say 20 years, but you're also one of the people who stood his own ground and lived your singular way of creativity because you do, as I call it, Rik does Rik things, you do your own explorations because I know that just like many other digital artists in the late two thousands and early 2010s, there was the push and pull of commercial work and kind of being a digital [00:05:00] illustrator and creating campaigns for anyone and everyone.

But that's what you did for a while. But then you've decided to be like, this is what I'm going to do. I'm gonna do my own things in my own way. And that's valuable because you've shown so many people that being you, being the person that you're meant to be, it is that expression of daring creativity because I am always happy and always celebrating in a way when I see your next piece.

I was like, okay, Rik is still doing R things, and that's what really matters. So how would you describe your journey from, that early, young digital designer, digital illustrator, all the way to where you are now?

Rik: all started as a 14-year-old, Inspired by people like you actually, sitting on Devi Dart, I never know how to pronounce it. And, the energy I got there from seeing something was curious about, didn't know what I was looking at. Looking at your work, looking at Chuck Anderson, 

Josh Davis. know it was I couldn't craft, like what [00:06:00] it was and I was inspired by it. And that curiosity, like ex exploring, through the digital softwares and trying to figure out my own language.

Like I really tried to maintain that energy. And of course there have been tons of moments where I was Tired of it where I wanted to give up, but always kept on looking for those new ways of staying curious basically. putting myself somewhere I had to learn and I had to force myself into new ways of expressing myself.

And that kept me hungry in a way. also been scary at points where either like the financial reward wasn't that big. that's, always a juggle. Like you need to make some money, but you also need to keep yourself happy. And most of the times those things don't really align. You've probably been through that yourself as well.

 been a constant juggle, but I always try to maintain that energy from the 14-year-old Rik, where I was simply being curious wanting to explore new ways of expressing myself.

Radim: I love it. 14-year-old rig is still guiding a rig [00:07:00] with two kids and survival 

Rik: Oh man. 

Radim: yeah, I love it. And thanks for the name check. I think we were so lucky that what was happening in that sort of two thousands, let's, say, let's, put a whole decade on it. It was time like no other, because not only like we were inspiring one another, we also became friends. We became a community like we had almost at this corner of the internet. We just felt so connected and so passionate, because we were doing a similar thing. We felt like we've got our own horse in a race doing our things in parallel to one another.

And even though there were overlaps, no one felt too frightened or too threatened in a way by anyone else's work. I think, Those friendships never go away because we've been in it together and we are still together in it.

So I, I really value this because yeah, now wherever you go in the world, there's somebody somewhere from that time and you go, Hey , that things have moved on, right?

Rik: those times were valuable, super intimate. It was also quite a compact scene, I think.

[00:08:00] And it was beautiful. It was cozy. tend to meet at festivals like all festival, FITC. You had those were gatherings. And always remember that returned home so inspired by finding those like-minded idiots that had the same passion, me, always felt quite alone small little town and those events, and especially also online friendships you've made.

along the way became very valuable friendships as valuable as your real life friendships at times.

Radim: It's interesting when you said, feeling alone in my town in a way that the global community online is is the window to the world. Is that one way of keeping the 14-year-old r energy, plugged in into the world and keeping you going?

Would you say that?

Rik: Yeah. my real life friends always make fun of me that I tend to do more with my internet friends, that, always try to avoid the friend weekends with my real life friends. And whenever there's an internet friend doing a wedding, like I, I could travel the whole world [00:09:00] for it. yeah, valuable friendships have been made that way.

And I still think you're quite vulnerable being an artist and not everybody understands you at times, you're going through, what your thinking is, what your process is like, he's people look at me. Yeah, Rik is making easy money, blah, blah, blah. Working for those big clients.

But I just needed somebody to bounce ideas with. And I always found that online with my online homies a little bit easier than, here. I'm in a smaller town close to Amsterdam are simply not someone here doing whatever I do and let alone like, understanding it.

And every time, like every birthday or whatever gathering, I had to explain Hey, I do this. I create images for a living and everybody will be looking. You create memes. I'm like, oh fuck. kind of vibe. that was, especially I, went to my first off I met from the friends of Deaf corps.

I dunno if you know that like community, ran by Justin Maller and Mallard Mahler. you know who I'm talking about. And [00:10:00] meeting those guys for the first time in real life was just like magical It was so cool.

Radim: I think describe it, I think the medium of the creativity, the expression, that output of like how to express yourself because I think we were at the beautiful nexus that what we were doing digitally is what people were doing almost physically, creatively, let's say decade prior.

But we had this, beautiful alignment in time where the technology was in the right place, the curiosity was in the right place, the resources, the stock image, real, everything, that it was coming together that we can do things. A lot and quickly you, can turbocharge your career so quickly.

' I remember doing not only client work, but I was doing like a piece a day for myself. I was like, I need to do this. I need to push myself. Because we were in a league of our own together. we were Hey, what is possible? What can we do? And of course you see an idea from somebody else.

You're like, I'm gonna borrow that, but I'm gonna make it my own. I'm gonna twist it. I'm gonna try make it in a way that actually it can go back into the cycle and inspire other people. [00:11:00] Because when you say the word understanding, it's interesting that you have that problem explaining yourself to your friends, but to the world online, it almost it's unnecessary at all.

Is it? Because you can do, especially in your case, you can get work to talk for itself.

Rik: Yeah, it's weird. quite convenient as well to to wind down from work. do it on a purpose. I don't discuss like any work related things with my real life friends and my real life is quite separate, apart from cute photos from my kids.

I love to share that because I'm simply so proud of them. But personal life is quite not visible online. I tend to separate those things somehow works for me, especially before COVID it also really worked for me that I lived in a small town and clients just flew me over the world.

Like I got to speak on conferences. So that was all like, always finding a balance, for me, this still works. sometimes I just find it convenient to just play video games and not talk about art for a second because I'm [00:12:00] indul in it, especially 'cause I'm still as passionate as this 14-year-old was.

But then. It could be so nice to drink a beer, play some rocket league with a friend, unlike one television together, and just talk shit and not have to worry about work, 

Radim: what you describe it, I think it's a proper work-life balance, because some people, personally, I don't think I ever stop thinking about it. not that I discuss too much with many people, you're showing up in conversation events and stuff, and you almost gotta plugged into it.

And you can't, ever tell your brain not to think about something. We can't control our thoughts. We just need to let them pass through, what you're describing, I think it's an interesting way because some people might be thinking like, Hey, I wish I had, friends that are more in tune with what I do and they care and whatever, but.

You don't need that validation. 'cause as you just said, like it's, you know what, it's actually nice to just not talk about it because what I believe what we've created in the last 20 odd years is like created so much noise in the world that, the online space wasn't as busy and as sounded like a grandad telling it, not telling this on my podcast was and because [00:13:00] there's so many places to meet, there's so many subsets, too many sort of sub platforms and all of those spaces where I think we were lucky there was fewer of them and that's actually that the connection was strong.

 But with the way, obviously like it is now, you can have your little pockets, you can have your micro communities. It's just might be that sometimes we find it harder to meet new people just to say, this is who I am, this is what I do. Because you can't be in older places all the time,

Rik: How do you feel about the fact that there were no tutorials back then online? That we actually needed to have a conversation to actually ask bro, I love what you did there. How did you do it? I still remember like asking. I think it was Pete Harrison, like the wire style guy.

I don't know if you remember him. Hey bro, this effect is dope. And he was like, yeah, this displacement layer, your Photoshop. And like there were not many resources and way more space for conversation, a proper connection being made. And right now, there's almost no conversation needed online.

I feel like everything can be found either on YouTube you want to do a tutorial or you ask chat GPT, hey, [00:14:00] how has this been achieved? And sometimes miss that. And especially what I just mentioned about my online friends and my offline friends. have to say I still meet new offline friends because that happens in real life.

But online friends getting less and less. And it's not that I spend less time online, there's just way less people looking for a conversation these days, I feel. 

Radim: that's a really interesting observation because answering your first part of the question, the tutorials, that was the magic. That was the magic of what did you do? Because you know those people are using the same tools, what did you do? How did you do this? And it did felt a little bit like this sort of gentle race in a way of I need to find out, I need to do this.

I need to surprise people. we put so much care into this and I guess we were not busy checking. Every platform every 15 minutes, is anyone like this? Has this, I think we were more focused on the work, and I think there was a aura of mystery a little bit, because I think the, things we were [00:15:00] creating took a lot of time and work to create, recreate not only you trying to get technically better, but you were also trying to get, conceptually better.

Like you were trying to, progress, like what'd you do with this? And I think there was this, element of like, how can I do this? Yeah, it it was quite a time in a way that, you know what, whatever you wanted to do, you need to find out. And then we started creating tutorials, creating stuff for other people.

I think that was a good way of learning, I think. 'cause it's, even though I remember writing tutorials for print and they were like, they were important because you can find it, it's printed and it's, got longevity to it. And I think now the options have grown so vast that you can be anything in anyone so quickly that, you almost don't belong to certain category of people.

I think I would find the potentially harder to find my expression if I was 20 years old now because the world is a Disneyland and it can be anything in anyone. And actually to, really double down on what you feel like you should be, I potentially might be harder. I've got nearly a 10-year-old girl [00:16:00] in the house and a 6-year-old boy who find out in five or six years time what, who they want to be, but.

It's but it pulls them because you can be anything. So yeah, what you're describing I think was that camaraderie because the person you reached out to for that tutorial tape or that hack was in exactly the same place. If you're like, Hey, I can tell you my secret and you tell me yours, and I think that was the part when, I'm sure you remember like trading PSD files and oh, you use this and you use that.

And I was like, how do you do this? Because we were learning in real time. And I think that's what strengthened community because we were actually just happy to share and learn. 

Rik: But through that, I actually learned that people named their layers. I was like, holy shit.

Radim: I worked with Hello Color.

Rik: Oh.

Radim: And I remember we did a collaboration. I've learned so many things like how we did like a color adjustments and that kind of stuff. But I was a butcher I was literally like tapping a keyboard, like a pianist, like doing things fast and doing it intuitively and he was like sending the file back and it's happened?

Why'd you do it? I'm sorry. not only I did it really [00:17:00] quickly, but maybe I have been also half drunk, Because it 

Rik: but yeah. Yeah. do that still, those, things still happen. two artists jam on one PSDI, I haven't seen it in quite a while. And also I haven't done it in quite a bit, but it was quite common back then where it was like, yeah, let's do a collaboration together. And was, always clumsy.

It never worked out the way, one, because the, way others work was just so hard for me to understand like how they build up their files 

Radim: yeah, I think it just brings up really lots of good memories

You know what? it happened and you can deny it, and it, made us feel something. But let's talk about your career progression, because through these tutorials you carry your 14-year-old rig energy into everything.

You tried your hand in so many different ways and styles always been beautifully colorful. But what was that discovery for you when you realized that, doing, I think you were like 17 when you did one of your first commercial projects, right? That's, young and early. How did you navigate that space before you found who you wanted to be?

Rik: Oh man. there [00:18:00] was also no social media back then, you had to be quite lucky to be found by clients, right? Like I, I have no clue how they found me. was all like, needed your personal portfolios or your own URL and that was like your showcase of what you were capable of beside Dhar.

But Dhar was more like an alternative shit hole. you could find whatever there. don't know, like was young. was never too ambitious, I never intended it to be my profession, right?

 just started to do it because I like doing it. And, it all went so organically from there, I never had to force myself into hitting people up or whatever. Like, the emails always came my way, by whatever I've been express expressing online. so whatever I posted somehow connected with someone who decided to send me an email.

And the first gig was for Volkswagen, I've, done party flyers before for like hockey parties where I got like free boost all night and in exchange and stuff like that. My first real gig was [00:19:00] for Volkswagen at the age of 17, and then an agent in Amsterdam contacted me brought me more gigs for Mazda, Panasonic, Puma and those kind of brands.

And I grew into that and I got too comfortable too soon, I think. also worked at City. That's when we met, actually, when I was living in Montreal. it was, it is what was very stuck imagery focused work like, I don't even know how to call, like a sort of special effects masking your way through Photoshop with some bixie dust.

They used to call it like some magic gloves and it was very photo shoppy and. In Montreal was quite the moment where I was like, okay, this is not what I want to do. I was really ambitious, Hey, I want to be the con lion and blah, blah, blah. that was my ambition when entering the advertising world.

But sooner or later I didn't really like executing art directors briefs. Like you basically got a sketch back in those days and you had to find like corresponding photographs and on [00:20:00] iStock photos, shutter stock or whatever stock website was there. Sometimes a client had a nice budget, so they did a shoot for you, so you direct that, which was cool.

it was always never felt me enough and it was also quite far out of that 14-year-old kid. somehow. Realized that I always wanted to maintain that energy around those days where I was like, okay, this is so far out of why I started to do this. when I started to, when social media came up and Behan started to come up and I really started focus more on my own stuff instead of making money, I was still living at my parents' place.

So that was quite convenient, back then. So my cost of living was basically not much. was just going to, to a pub and buy a split in a coffee shop, but that was it. I got to explore, in more of my abstract ways, back in the day, still without tutorials, trying to find my own language and started to post that online.

And I think it took two [00:21:00] years until some clients really vibed with it because it was too abstract at first. I was like, okay, I really like doing this, but. There's no way to monetize it because they don't understand it. sometimes you need to put stuff in perspective for people to understand it.

And especially have my real friends to understand it. Whatever I do, they need see it in some sort of context. They're familiar with. If I show them like an abstract gradient, they're like, yeah, Rik, this is just a gradient. If I turn it to a landscape with a horizon, they're like, oh my god, Rik, this is a beautiful landscape.

See what I mean? that's what I did with my abstract work where I try give it more like an illustrated twist. I try to discover 3D and, blended like my abstract shape with topography. And that was the moment where I was like, Hey, this is cool. people started to hit me up for something that still felt me and, where I could make money with.

So that was juggling the balance. Like how, does it work out and how am I being happy? I 

Radim: there's so much we just said, but it reminds me of when you said okay, I didn't [00:22:00] know where people came from. Again, that timing was so perfect The mood and the art direction was so great for what we were creating because the brand stepped into what we had on offer, the skill, the talent, and got us to be part of the campaigns.

Because when you fast forward it 20 years on, we get artists attached to a campaign, but more than often now, the landscape has changed. When you got influencers with a certain amount of following and They're there because they've created following.

So the brands are happy to put their name to the campaign, whereas we would be creating these mad things and you would never have Hey, Mazda versus Rik Oostenbroek. we were just the talent behind, no hidden behind the scenes. And now the things have changed. And I think it's it's just a natural evolution of how things are happening.

But. I remember when you said, we had a website. Was it, I think secret showcase? is that right? Yeah. Yeah. You 

Rik: Yes. That 

sounds so weird. 

Radim: the, beauty of this was, [00:23:00] that was the only point of call. Like you were online and people would go into Google and say I'm looking for an illustrator.

I'm looking for a digital artist. I'm the sequence of events was much shorter because the work would show up in small, fewer places and to find someone, you would go and actually Google and find their website. And what was really interesting looking at it back, like I had a website, which for who was getting like one, one to 2 million hits a year because that was the only place you're thinking this is incredible.

And you were checking people's websites almost on a daily basis in case they bring something new. But then. Media showed up and it's okay, let's put stuff there. Let's put stuff there and the traffic diluted, and now we check your website traffic. And it's obviously AI boards crawling for information.

It's just I get million hits every month, but it's from AI boards. And I'm like, they just dig in for the same information. So things have changed. Obviously we have to accept the change because is also a vehicle for us change our ways of creativity.

Like how we can earn money, how we can do, because with the style that you've described, like in the way of having the ability to [00:24:00] do what you felt like doing, actually express yourself not from the comfort of let's say your parents' house. that's the opportunity. You, will not get any, time.

Again, like this is, the developing years and as I said at the top of the conversation, the way you stuck with it, what you've done with it, and. Being true and honest to yourself, it's, a testament that you can be the person you wanna be, because I'm sure when you look back, it's liberating.

Would did you imagine yourself doing anything different?

Rik: looking back at things a lot, especially reflecting a lot in this time. Like, at this age and this time, like where we're at and the conditions the world is in, the condition advertising and art are in and reflecting back, think I've done quite well.

only thing. I keep on thinking is have we been in a bubble? that's what I've been thinking about a lot lately, was it a bubble? Because were so celebrated, digital creators were rewarded. So bigly and I wouldn't say like we didn't deserve it [00:25:00] because we do great stuff, but whenever I reflect right now, I'm like, oh my gosh, there's opportunities for quite unreal, like at the pace that we're following each other up. had client after client, like I was invited to go here and then a week later I was invited to go there work on this campaign. I was featured in every sunless hot, worldwide.

And to me that was all normal, right? And, right now, like it slows down a little bit for all of us I guess. And I'm like, fuck, that was actually quite cool. So the only thing, whenever I look back at whatever was happened and whatever, I'm. Critical offer to towards myself is that I couldn't enjoy it more, that it was too normal to me.

You know what I mean?

Radim: I, do actually. and it's really interesting. I do know what you mean. ' cause I had a similar sentiment just the other day going through archives. What I did with my studio with, when I used to employ people, when we used to literally produce so much work and not only like work with the studio with myself, the things were moving fast. You doing things on the [00:26:00] fly, you working on things and you're solving problems in real time. And it took me like four or five years to realize what we were doing four or five years prior was actually good. And we created amazing things. The experiences were amazing.

But I think there is one advice I don't volunteer advice on this podcast, but slow down and look back at what you've created before because. Oh my God. we have, this difference in number of clients that you would be taking on a number of clients.

I used to take on, because I remember your talk in Montreal, where I think it was Montreal, when you said, look, I say no to 19 out of 20 opportunities. And I was like, I say yes to 90 out of 20 opportunities. 'cause I was saying yes to everything because I was trying to work out who I was. I didn't, know as much as you did, like what you wanted to do. Fruit and melee. It's a survival. it's not, it don't thrive. You survive, obviously thrive professionally, but as a person, you just survive. So I think in that way it was like, looking back, it seemed sometimes so therapeutic [00:27:00] and we're like, you know what, that was a good time and I hoped it'd been new.

It was a good time because it was just the norm. like that boiling frog, you put him in a pan, it start, boiling the frog doesn't know it's getting hotter. not that it makes any sense in this comparison, but yeah, I'm sure you agree. Like we we were just doing too much too, quickly, too often

Rik: Yeah. I don't know if that was even your question, by the way, when you hit me up for the podcast and I was like, okay, what, should I cover? But are so many weird moments these days where I reflect or look into the future. I'm like, what's to come?

Which is exciting. I'm quite excited. I don't know if you're scared or whatever, but such interesting times I feel it's the same kind of time as before. Like when I to me personally, was, grinding, finding my own style, my, parents' bedroom.

that's the moment where I'm, at right now. I just wonder like how it's gonna roll out for years to come.

Radim: There's always a way of unknown in the current situation. I found that the best way to deal with it is just to be two steps ahead of what might [00:28:00] be or what's coming. And I, miss those days of creating elaborate pieces and, pushing to brands and trying to reinvent the next style.

But my world has moved on from picking up all of those pieces of experiences and actually bringing them together in different forms. I wouldn't think of doing this 20 years ago, having a conversation with people or growing on this, or, starting communities or writing books and doing that kind of stuff.

But it all came from that time when we were promoting ourselves. We were trying to find a ways, kinda making sense of the world. But in my case, it's I'm thinking what, could be, I'm not waiting for one might happen and come my way, but I think what could be, because there is a world out there that's invented by everyone.

Some people take part in active way of shaping that world and some people just are the passengers being driven? And it's usually the passengers who are being driven, who are complaining about the lack of opportunities. But you have to step up [00:29:00] and just, put yourself out there.

' cause I don't think, think you have never had easier access to tools. We have never had access to being seen and promoted. But would you agree it's potentially diminished the way people can express themselves? Because as opposed to, working out a tutorial, how to become themselves, it's easy to tap in into what's existing and use that as the expression first.

Rik: think that was the beauty of the back in the days where everybody had to educate themselves and, found their unique path towards greatness. but yeah, I think it has something beautiful that's like stuff became saturated, especially with the 3D tutorials I feel where every like slick renders were so easy to bust out.

Especially like once Octane and Redshift were, became like the industry standards, like immediate feedback, grayscale Gorilla was putting out like amazing tools. Like I learned a lot from those guys as well. But it became so easy. But yes, I often. [00:30:00] Miss a times where I'm looking around or looking at a piece of art and I'm like, wow, how did you do that?

for instance, I have that when stumbling upon Ruben Woo. His work the first time. I was like, what, is this digital? Is it physical? what am I looking at? And that feeling I always had when browsing like di art back in the days, I'm like, oh my God, what tRik did she do there?

What kind of softwares did you use? And I'm always looking for those Pieces trigger those like a little bit of mystery, so to say. And there's a little less mystery or there's just a lot of content that it's harder to find those mystery gems, there. just maybe a little bit harder to filter, but yeah, those moments, still have them from time to time whenever do scroll on whatever social media app wow, this person is talented as fuck.

And it's so weird that sometimes those persons have 150,000 followers and I only stumble upon them like months later. And that's, a little bit maybe also the downside of the internet, where, [00:31:00] back in the days we had DNT art, then we had bee hands. Dribble was little bit of a thing as well, although I always found it a little bit weird that you couldn't.

Only upload in a very small specific ratio or resolution. then we had Instagram. So those were the visual diaries everybody was uploading their work to, it was pretty easy to find. And right now there's so many platforms and I'm not on TikTok, but probably there are magical artists on TikTok as well.

Radim: yeah.

you go to these pocket where, as we've established, it's all fragmented, so you need to double down in one place and see who you might find, because we find ourselves in, this social media landscape that why are we posting? Are we hoping that someone will find us?

Are we there for community? Are we there for promotional marketing? Because question is, who's actually looking like, how do we know the behavior and, the, pathways of people who are commissioning this stuff? And is it even being commissioned? Because as we both know, it's actually much more beneficial to, get ahead of the curve and actually build [00:32:00] your own spaces and build your own opportunities and your visibility because that's where the different happens.

But I have never, even though this, I'm talking about opportunities, I wanna talk about something that I haven't asked anyone in the last a hundred plus episodes. You were part of the NFT scene. I would call it a scene or NFT movement. And I wanna know a little bit about it because I haven't had chance to talk, to anyone about it.

And it was this. This shake up in a world where anyone all of a sudden became a crypto artist. And I'm thinking, wow, how quickly, will anyone abandon their values and moral in the way of cryptocurrency and being a crypto artist? And again, I'm not trying to be a derogatory to anyone in a way, but it was this shift that kind of proven to everyone really quickly that unless you are established and you have something like you had being established, artist, having your style and being, singular, you can find [00:33:00] successes in this.

And lots of people find themselves within sort of six weeks talking about AI and everything else. So what was it like for you when you discovered NFT and how did it work for you? And if you can actually disclose, but was it, was there, was it lucrative? How 

would you describe It 

Rik: it was at the weirdest time, given we were expecting our first kit, which was January, 2021. We got our first kit. He has the initials PSD by the way, referring to a Photoshop document. That's how much I love digital art. was a time when people sold this, piece for 60, 69 million or something like that.

I was supposed to take a sabbatical. I had my first migraines months before, like I was really doing four jobs at a time because like I wanted to provide for the family and blah, blah, blah. Anyways, I totally destroyed myself and I was supposed to take a sabbatical and I was like, okay. Everybody started to hit me up, like even my neighbors like, Hey Rik, you, they still are, shouldn't you do [00:34:00] NFTs?

 didn't have a Coinbase account stuff like that. had ask an online friend of mine, Nicholas Lundberg, goes by the online name of Diff type to, took over screen, through any desk to help me navigate through the crypto madness get my first Ethereum to, mint something.

fast forward, I didn't have much expectation, but it was again, one of those moments where everything was timed right for me. And I'm not talking from the financial POV, although it was lucrative, it also taught me that there's a different market as well for digital art digital artists case, which is mean, we were celebrated as artists.

And I never really. Had that moment before, like I always felt more like a tool, especially for when working for brands like I was a tool to make their product stand out or to look fancy or whatever. like I, collaborated with Ray Band for instance, like I would [00:35:00] never approach it as an artist collaboration.

I would always approach it as a commission myself, right? would never see hey, they're looking for an artist. They see me like an artist. And Web3 or the NFT space changed that perspective for me, for the better. although what was that period like?

It was definitely stressful, especially 21, 22. was celebrated quite well in that space. being at the right moment, at the right time. hosted some, like even in real life events. Amsterdam where people came to and connected it was like artists and crypto bros. And even my parents came out and it was just like good vibes and stuff like that.

And everyone was like, oh my God, this is Rik Osi rookie. He's a legit artist. And I, needed to be in the photo with folks. was quite weird. As if they lucrative. Yes. the end. Yes. though the cryptocurrency going up and down could be quite nerve wracking, especially if you're not an expert in that field and you don't know what [00:36:00] to do.

also there, I've made friends for life, which is also an amazing thing. And it was really because it was, again, this quite a small bubble events like across the globe, really felt like those old digital art days, like where we were just like exchanging knowledge online and it was more like an exchange of crypto bro.

Educating crypto to this geeky artist from the Netherlands and this artist from the Netherlands advising this crypto brow, like on what artist is legit and what they should consider to buy and it was wild times I very much enjoyed it. landed me on crazy places, crazy collaborations.

 was even in an Amsterdam museum, like my work was featured there thanks to, NFT space, which is cool. still right now, like I'm building on onto that and not also figured one way, by the way, regarding NFTs showcasing them that There's no good way or proper way of showcasing digital [00:37:00] art.

I really feel that there's no television or screen that does justice to digital art. Yeah. If you do an installation or a real life installation or like a g Munk kind of like robots and more crazy laser shit, that's cool. But displaying art on a television, even if it's in a museum, it's still not it.

 that's why I tend to move onto the physical world right now. But the entire, like hanging in a gallery, hanging in a museum, like that kind of stuff opened my eyes. a different kind of exposure you're getting. It's also a different pair of eyes and it's not really the eyes that like, I don't want those eyes to, buy my work, but I want those eyes to love digital art and see potential, like what it could be.

and, yeah, found that quite interesting that the entire artist's perspective, 

Radim: when you said it was about we wanted to be celebrated as artists, all of a sudden we had a chance to be seen as artists. And I was really curious like, where is the [00:38:00] appreciation coming from? Because it was, as you said, it was not in a derogatory way again, but it was crypto bros, investing into this stuff.

Like it was their way of exchanging the currency for, creativity. And I was skeptical about this because. Like, where was the whole crowd before the cryptocurrency? it, I'm so happy it happened because having spoke to people like Josh Davis in, person, it's changed his life just in ma lives changed because of their, like some people have done incredibly well, but those people were ready to do incredibly well.

Of course, our friend Michael Winkelman, okay. People did obviously incredibly, well out of it and I think, he still stayed the same, like carried on because those people brand equity, that had visual equity, they had a, something that was the reason to be celebrated and it felt like a little bit of like a fairytale.

oh, okay, shit, obviously this is all of the money coming from somewhere and everyone felt like this is the time and you're thinking. As quickly as it [00:39:00] comes, I'm sure it's gonna quickly go because it's like, it's unsustainable. who's got, let's say, 25 grand to buy your Instagram post and another 25 grand tomorrow to buy Instagram post because there is, there is a way to support ourselves. That has also been hopeful. And I just felt like it potentially brought some of bad traits in people because people came across quite greedy and quite naive and quite, unfortunately rude. ' this is the new money experience. And I was like, oh my God.

Okay, you wanna be celebrated as an artist, but you come across like a bit of a d because you think that this is your money and all of a a sudden you feel like this is like an exclusive thing. So I just wanted to ask you about this because yeah, seeing it from both sides and having spoken to people like Chuck, like I think we should celebrate that it's happened.

we got to see quite a lot of like on a societal experiment, we got to see how people behaved and everything. That's so good to be true. Obviously it is not really true, so I think that way of understanding like how we [00:40:00] operate.

Rik: I still, I sold three NFTs last week, by the way. wasn't for as much as in 2021, but it's still just to say like it still happens. And the fun thing now is though that this collector wanted, he's from Armenia. He wanted three prints with it as well. So there, there comes no, but there comes a different kind.

Like it's not just like a financial asset. he showed me a picture of bedroom with Hey, I want to hang in here. he like, so yeah, sent those files to the printer and gonna send them, him. So that's, that. are good folks in there. And yes, most of them are self proclaimed collectors.

The other hand, it, landed me crazy places and especially my work got seen by was on the bar. I don't know if you know the event, but it's the biggest photo fair in Europe and. dunno how many visitors, there come like 300,000 or something like that. And work was featured as a featured piece there, which is weird because it wasn't digital gradient.

There was no [00:41:00] photo at all. I'm still not sure if the organization was aware, but thanks to Web3 folks, they got connections with galleries that somehow stumbled upon my work and were like, Hey, this is cool shit. Let's, do that together. And so yes. still very grateful for whatever happened there.

But yeah. It stinks here and there as well as you mentioned.

Radim: I mean, it's always valuable to see all sides because I think when I was talking about, obviously it quickly came in, quickly went like that. There was NFT before the boom of NFTs and obviously there's NFTs still now, obviously, like it's just that sort of that boom and bust of that experience.

But I know from real social media posted, you're never happy with how social media renders, where your work, there's always a loss of quality and you're like, you're never happy. But what you mentioned earlier is that you've moved into physical and you did work with our friends in Burno, in Czech Republic.

 on your exhibition about color, obviously you created your own two [00:42:00] kilo, book with how many hundreds of pages. What's it like to. Transfer this into physical, tangible, when you started as a digital designer, digital creator, or digital illustrator, and now pushing yourself into things that you can hold with your hands.

Rik: It's the most frustrating process ever. you probably know it, you've been printing your work at times as well. especially if it's like a book and you need to do everything in CMYK, linear gradients are like the worst thing to print correctly. color profiles, are so many things at play, but once did this, Collaboration guy with a rug. and I got so many cool responses because it was a physical object. And that was the moment where I was like, okay, my work is only physical on screens.

And apparently whenever it's not on screens, more people tend to understand it again. Like it's putting it in a whole different perspective, and all of a sudden you reach a different crowd. And again, like it's not just to monetize your craft, which is interesting, but you can also, inspire a whole new crowd that do [00:43:00] that, it's quite a process. And I have to say that at times I'm still fully happy with it because I want to mock it up. actually, every time I mock it up, I'm like, okay, let's get it. It's perfect. And and you're like, oh, very hard have that control over it.

yours so involved in the end product, it's right now you hand it off to a printer. that's I miss, but get such opportunities and to be able to show my work in different places is just like crazy. And I'm still trying to figure out like what the best way is to present my work. I've done multiple locations right now where I printed Jp, so to say. So digital files on fine art paper, like alula, whatever, tons of grams.

 but I've also been screenprinting a lot and that's something, started my friend Ruker back in the day. was, always vouching for me, getting off that screen get my hands dirty and be less of the spoil kid waiting for an email for a [00:44:00] client to pay me big bucks for little effort.

 that's, where he was sometimes annoyed, but buy that, I didn't put like energy into physical execution of things and to see like how it could work, how it could translate. And, only since the last couple of months sort of satisfaction with it as well I'm as confident to present it, like, something on the screen, transition has been quite hard. Like I still don't know what kind of frame is best with what kind of body of work. You know what I mean? Like I, I see some beautiful frames behind you and it's cool and it works. no, but it works. But like for me to frames, like I never sold any print, I never had an online store, stuff like that.

Like I've always been so cautious about the fact that I'm a control freak and whenever I see something screen, I like it. I want it to be exactly the same on a piece of paper. And that's just hard. it's still something I'm trying to figure out, but something I want to figure [00:45:00] out.

Radim: I think it's the art of letting go, really. you can control what you can and let go of what you can control because you learn the tips and tRiks of what's possible within, RGB space and then try convert it to CMIK because you sometimes have to surrender.

Like it's not, possible. And on my, on, the, on, on the covers of my next three books, I've got this beautiful sort of glass render type that we've created of Timal Vallow. looks kickass on the screen and you're like, okay, we, have to find a method of how to print it, bottom layer of a Silver ink and then put spot Uuv on top just to get closer to this because Yeah, sadly, CMYK is a bit limiting, but what I liked what you said it, you mentioned Ruku and his legacy, like how, much of an impact he had on what you created now.

'cause I've seen the photos of you doing screen print and that kind of, almost feels

like you you're taken on from him where he left off because I loved that he never stopped searching. He was always on the [00:46:00] lookout. Like I, loved his work before I met him or met him. We did some work together just like yourself.

He had a visual style with the type of colors and materials he was using in his work, and then he took it into the physical space. Now rediscovering some of his older pieces and I'm like, holy shit. The guy was so ahead of the

time creating things there. I'm like, how did you do it?

And I've, I'm glad I've had time to speak to him before he passed, like to, just to share the appreciation and kinda re reiterate it again because Boy's Creative was such a body of work that he went to soon, but what he left behind is just so incredible. Tell me more about him. what the effect that he had on you.

Rik: I've known him for I think 15 years. we were paired by our former agent in Amsterdam on, was a gig for Art Director's club, the Netherlands, a book release.

 back back then, he was the, calligraphy guy. was, doing type only. as you mentioned, he was quite restless. Like I also met him [00:47:00] while he was bald, which was weird we connected and yeah, it was first on Skype and a lot of like beer beers in Amsterdam, beers in my hometown, which is nearby. was fortunate enough that he lived in, he started to live in my town as well for about eight years. And then, went back to his roots, to Eindhoven, because he missed his family a little bit.

And, that makes sense. And it's just one year after he moved to Eindhoven and everything was perfect and he was texting me how much he loved being back. And with all this old school graffiti homies and stuff like that, news came, he was, sick. that was wild.

That was also a moment where we we realized fuck, dude. that's wild. yeah, after that moment, think kept strong for quite a bit until like his last. Birthday. many beautiful things happened and there was a fundraiser for him, so he was financially like he was [00:48:00] self-employed.

And as a self-employed person, getting sick was just a while. so especially from the digital art community, many donations came like the last six and five. I think he donated like an insane amount of money to Ruker as well. And it was cool to see. also tend to reflect on, what he meant.

And still I still do that every now and then. and my girlfriend and I, and she obviously knew him as well, I was like, yeah, what would her say about this one of us is complaining about nothing? And he was always right. He was very opinionated, ahead of his time. Yes. sometimes a little bit extreme, yeah, an inspiring person warm person somebody.

Who also was very much invested on the community field tried to host events in Amsterdam to get artists together and even did that. But like still a typography community that's very active that he founded like 10 years ago. And plenty of people hitting me up, like [00:49:00] how much he meant to them and to me he was always you have the angel on devil on your shoulder, he was always, either criticizing or celebrating me, but always putting me with both feet on the ground and trying to inspire me also to get off the screen a little bit more.

 he very much had that, background of physical, like badass tagging on train wrecks and shit like that, where I'm just The, digital guy that never made his hands dirty, yeah, we got along super well, and, the main thing missing about him, besides his personality the fact that was very much wasn't a director of what I was doing, but the, one of the few people in the scene.

I took him very serious So whenever he approved something, whenever he was like, oh yeah, Rik, that's legit. I, went home, yeah, he loved it. And the other way around he was like, Rik, stop doing this client bullshit just get your hands dirty.

And day later I called the screen print studio make an appointment to just do a day of [00:50:00] screenprinting. And that's actually since the moment it, was sick. I, screen print like every month, this old screenprinting studio. And I still maintained to do that. until there's a moment that I can write the gallery.

And actually there's a beautiful, show in BOLs. I don't know if Debos, but it's down south in the Netherlands, celebrating his work. it also includes work from from like 22, creative friends that also contributed work to his, solo exhibition, which is beautiful

Radim: what a beautiful tribute, because he was like, no other, I, met him in person at, off. And we were and couldn't put a work and a person together at first, but we called him a bag of beers because he was working around off with a carry bag full of beers. And

I was 

like. 

Rik: cheap skate. Huh?

Radim: Five was also clever because it took forever to get served, breaks between talks, and it was like, I've got bag of beer. I was like, you're a clever man. And guess what I do every time in Barcelona? I just get a drink from around the corner from like 

the Vietnamese [00:51:00] bar or whatever that is,

because it's, it takes no thanks, no time.

but I, loved his spirit. I loved his artistry, like what he created at that time when I knew him and, the impact it had on you. It's, remarkable. And when you talked about the fundraiser, this is what we talked at the beginning of our conversation about the community spirit. Like it, it's the old community that came together sadly, he posted the news on, his Instagram about a need that he needs to raise some money.

The people that came out in the comments and the likes and everything. I was like, oh, I haven't seen these people in

like 20 years or 15 years. And it was just like hundreds and hundreds of people that just came from our respective lives to actually celebrate one of us in a 

way 

that was so important and so essential to show how community building,

we were lucky to be 

Rik: made his life much easier. Like his life was hell, of course, like the last few years, but it made his life a little way less stressful because like otherwise he had to, arrange money as well. And right now, he [00:52:00] got a gift, a plane tickets to Utah to go to some friends there.

And he, even spent two weeks there. didn't have much stress about money, which was great. Like the last year, was with us.

Radim: it's such a shame that. he's gone because it was just fun just to see him, just, ru good things in a way, 

 but all we can do is to celebrate his bravery, his life, the way he was honest about his horrendous fucking disease.

Rik:  Yeah. and also the way he, always approached life and work. I was, very much a believer of once he was too comfortable with something, he moved on and he did something totally else. And money was never his motivation to do that. And that's something he always preached for, make it fun, like he only live one life make sure it's fun and don't direct yourself into repeating yourself too much for clients or just stick close to your core.

what he did. He's actually still gonna release a book or working on it. Yeah. started with [00:53:00] graffiti, like was his first personal Creative expression. he went back to like his last two years he spent doing that and, gonna release a book, of like pieces of his that he photographed himself.

He also took that very, serious, his camera and stuff like that. And yeah, great. And actually 10 days from now I'm gonna hang with all his friends again and just celebrate his life, which is wild. But yeah. Very cool. dude, if, I'm gonna die and so many people celebrate me like, you can die peacefully, it's crazy. It's so cool 

and sad at the same 

time. 

Radim: it is brutal, but as they say, you die twice. You die on the day when you die, and then you die last time when people say your name.

 All we can do, just say his name and 

every situation. hey Rik. I'm, glad I got to see you again. I'm glad we got to chat.

I'm glad we got to celebrate Ru's live because, I feel like you channeling his energy for what you do and you know what, I'm so excited about what's coming [00:54:00] next

 from you because it always surprises because, rig does rig

things 

Rik: man. I'm, working on huge jazz sculptures a company in London right now. But like you do meters, right? and a half meters tall and wide and actual sculptures. It's gonna be

epic 

Radim: I look forward to seeing It 

Rik: will be so proud of that. 

Radim: Absolutely. Absolutely. And I'm so happy for that. hey, dude, it's been a pleasure seeing you

Rik: Yes, man. 

Radim: chatting. Nice one. Thank you.

Right. 

Thank you for listening to this episode of Daring Creativity Podcast. I'd love to know your thoughts, questions, and suggestions, 

So please get in touch via the email in the show notes or social channels. This episode was produced and presented by me, Radim Malinic.

The audio production was done by Niall Mackay from [00:55:00] Seven Million Bikes Podcast. Thank you, and I hope to see you on the next episode