Sarah Ellen Masters is a collage artist, workshop facilitator, and founder of Colle — a creative business born from her own healing journey. In this deeply personal conversation, Sarah traces how dyslexia, public shame at school, and years of emotional isolation led her, unexpectedly, to the transformative power of collage. ~

What began as a master's project questioning her own bias against the medium evolved into a daily practice, a business, and a mission to bring accessible, hands-on creativity back into communities, schools, and organisations. 

Sarah shares how she turned Julia Cameron's morning pages into a visual ritual, why she sources materials from charity shops and her grandmother's belongings, and how sitting side-by-side with workshop participants — not above them — defines her entire philosophy of creative empowerment.

Key Takeaways

• Creativity can be suppressed from a very young age — for Sarah, dyslexia and an unsupportive school system created decades of shame and self-doubt before she found her creative identity in her late twenties.
• Collage has a uniquely low barrier to entry because, unlike drawing or painting, it was never formally graded at school — meaning most people carry no negative conditioning around it.
• Sarah developed a daily practice of writing diary entries, distilling each into three words, then translating those words into imagery — a powerful visual alternative to traditional journalling.
• Being present over perfect is the core principle behind her workshops. The process matters far more than the finished image, making it genuinely accessible to everyone.
• The labels we carry — "shy", "stupid", "black sheep" — are rarely accurate. Sarah unpacks how misdiagnosed shyness was actually years of learned isolation, and how collage helped her reclaim her organic self.
• Sources and materials matter philosophically: charity shops, inherited pieces from her grandmother, and printing offcuts all tie into her values of renewal, recycling, and honouring the past.
• People are physically starving for analog connection. The moment participants put their phones down and work with their hands, real human connection — not just connectivity — takes over.
• Starting with people she knew and slowly widening her audience has helped Sarah build confidence through accumulated reps, not overnight transformation.
• Her collage practice has trained her to respond to life's situations rather than be absorbed by them — a profound shift in emotional resilience.
• What Sarah offers her workshop participants is the exact safe, supported environment she desperately needed but never had growing up.

Daring Forever. Podcast with Radim Malinic

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Sarah: [00:00:00] It's you still succeeded and positive things came out of that bring all the bad, good and ugly out of it, you're still moving forward. I think I'm continually learning to let myself be seen and supported. I obviously isolated myself for a lot of years because of the tactics I learned growing up to survive with dyslexia.

 I'm learning to let the people around me help me and support, because it's, that's the other thing with the collage practice is that it's enabled me to realize that leaning into my family friends is not an intellectual thing. I need to do it on a gut level in order to sustain.

 The business that I'm trying to move forward and for it to have longevity.  

Radim: [00:01:00] Welcome to the Daring Creativity Podcast, a show about daring to forever explore creativity that isn't about chasing shiny perfection. It's about showing up with all your doubts and imperfections and making them count. It's about becoming more of who you already are. My name is Radim Malinic I'm a designer, author, and eternally curious human being.

 I am talking to a broad range of guests who share their stories of small actions that sparked lifetime discoveries, taking one step towards the thing that made them feel most alive. 

 Let me begin this episode with a question. Are you ready to discover what happens when you dare to create? 

Radim: Today I am speaking with Sarah Ellen Masters, who struggled [00:02:00] in the school system due to dyslexia to build a business around the very practice that healed her. Now, a collage artist and the founder of Colay, her journey spans shameful classrooms and years of self-isolation to leading workshops that offer the safe, supportive space she never had.

Always learning alongside her participants, never above them. In this conversation, Sarah explores why collage asks nothing of perfection, how diary entries became her visual morning pages, and why people are starving for hands-on connection in the screen saturated world.

It's my pleasure to share with you my conversation with Sarah Ellen Masters.

​

Radim part 1: Hey, Sarah, it's great to see you today. How are you doing? Welcome to Daring Creativity.

Sarah: I'm really good. Thank you. It's an honor to be here. 

Radim part 1: Oh, you are most welcome. I'm excited to change gears today because.

 I feel like you're in a [00:03:00] category

of one. 

 I feel like what

you do is singular.

I don't know anybody who does What you do. So for those who might not know what I know, how about you

introduce yourself?

Sarah: I'm collage artist, a workshop facilitator and a founder of Kalay,

 which is a business that I started last year. on the basis of just sharing the. Joy of collage that I found for myself and using it as a tool to be more mindful and reclaiming

 permission to be creative. I would

say. 

Radim part 1: 

Yeah, this is, I mean, we are in a category of one because I haven't heard many people recently say, you know, I've got joy for collage.

 So how do we trace it back from, the beginning of you discovering creativity to where you are now, starting Colay a year ago to now discovering the pieces, joining the dots of why and how. when was the first time that you became aware of creativity?

Sarah: I think that it's something that's evolved over time

and I think it was something from [00:04:00] a young age that I didn't really realize. Was a part of who I am. I think that's something that got suppressed from a very early age, being dyslexic and the schooling system that we have. And it probably wasn't until, ' cause people had told me over the years that I was creative in various forms, but I don't think it was until my late twenties where I was like, wow, I really am creative.

And

 Now I'm kind of reveling in it, 

Radim part 1: I would say, and this is a real question, like some people are lucky that they discovered creativity early. And some people are lucky because they discover creativity later in their lives, and I think there's no right answer.

You know, some people might be exploring this with more endurance and more sort of longevity, whereas personally, I think that coming to creativity later in life, or I mean obviously in your early twenties not later in life at all. I think there might be a bit of a benefit because you've potentially ticked all of the other boxes elsewhere.

So what [00:05:00] was that inspiration to make you realize that, you love creativity and then you're surrounded by 

it. 

Sarah: I think I'd got to a point actually that was so far from myself and from creativity that I felt a huge part of myself was missing. I had episodes in my late twenties where I. was actually feeling a lot of shame in my body and having a lot of outer body experiences

 and coming to the realization, I guess that creativity for me is being present and an embodiment side of it,

 I dunno if I'm like probably getting really deep here. Rad. 

Radim part 1: No, I mean, this is exactly what I wanna talk to you because

Radim part 1: what you describe, and obviously you said know, you're feeling a lot of shame in my body.

Again,we can compare, people's nodes 

but some people don't realize they

shame in their body until very later in

their life because it's mask 

with all sorts of vices to suppress [00:06:00] those feelings, to suppress that reality.

So again, you to go

through the first 

20 years of your life to build

up to that momentum of like, okay, I need creativity to, to help me to find a release. I thinkit's kind of an interesting medium to find out like, how do I get out of my current state?

Because you mentioned you highly dyslexic, 

Radim part 1: 

for those who might be looking around the room right now thinking

h how does that work? Because with the dyslexia. is kind of a collective term

for a condition, but everyone's got a different experience of it. So 

 what was it like, and

I guess it's not gonna be a happy memory, but what was it like when you discovered or get told

that you're dyslexic?

Sarah: well, well, I

think, there was never like a defining point where I was told I was dyslexic. And I don't think I actually also realized that

till later, how dyslexic I am, as a child. had a really tough time at school not fitting in and there was just not the curriculum or, opportunities to explore the different [00:07:00] ways that I learn.

 In fact I was moved to schools because my parents realized I wasn't very happy and I think they were doing the best that they

could. So put me into a different school in order to

try and help change the way I learned. But actually, I don't think the facilities were in place in any schooling system.

 Yes. when I was early adolescence, I was put into a private school. And again, the schooling system just wasn't in place for me to the point where I wasn't only bullied by other kids, but I was told,

 In front of a class by the teacher that I was

stupid.

Radim part 1: That is not an experience you want to have because your schooling experience, I mean, it's not even that long ago, is it? Like,I mean, you're talking about maybe like,sort of 20 years ago and I think it just shows like how much ignorance and lack of empathy was still in the system and, we can judge the time by being, not necessarily clued up about these things because yes,

we recording this in 2026 and we have a lot more [00:08:00] understanding, a lot more language about what people are and how.

Everyone is unique as you know. my books talk about the fact that, be the odd one out.

Like Everyone is odd, everyone is different. Everyone is weird in

some way

 but we somehow try to fit in the

societal sort of cookie cutter form of like, okay,okay, yeah, we all need to be a version of whatever is acceptable version of being a human. Then you realize well,

that's pretty fucking boring. what would I be that,

 because ultimately, you know, because so many similarities

in our DNA makeup and genetics, but we are all unique and

 this, Reminds me of children's books when I think, and this is gonna be really weird, but I remember reading to my kids, there was a book about Bear who went to OB

school and all the OBEs were making fun of him. It was like, you are different.

 And he tried to be like everybody else. And then they realized actually, you know what, we are all the same.

We are all the bees, we are all the same. But this bear stands out. He's

different, but. For our fragile minds, for being so young and trying to sort of accept it, that you could be

 the [00:09:00] other Something different feels so frightening because, I mean, a I feel for you,

like not being, not only picked on

by, other kids who must have been channeling there some sort of sadness 

and then having an ignorant teacher calling stupid in front of a class

 that can crush anyone even, In a very healthy mind because you don't really

want this, because you want the world to look after you. Right?

Sarah: absolutely. And I think we don't realize the power of our words like every day. And the long-term effects of those situations that have on somebody and. the difference it would've made to my life, having the tool of collage now then is phenomenal. Like I would've had so much more confidence, self-belief, a higher level of self-worth.

 It would've changed all of the other areas of my life and it would've had a huge difference to the trajectory of my life. And that's why I feel so passionately now about getting more of what I found in collage and the practice of collage [00:10:00] into not just schools, but into communities and other, organizations.

Because it's what we are missing. We're missing that experiential, creative practice that's accessible to everybody. And that comes from a place of instinct and and intuition and. Learning to lean in, not intellectually, but

from a place of soul.

Radim part 1: I think you've got absolutely right. I think what you describe it, I mean, it's interesting that you're thinking like, I wish I had this at that time. And it's, your lived in discovery and your solution to your own situation, if that makes sense.

Because It would have been great to.

Provide this curriculum to children and find a way of like how we shape it up. Because being parent myself and having two kids in school, you know, you get schools who are highly competitive, like you are you are working to a,cookie cutter again, and it's, you know, to create something so personal and unique.

 yeah, it's really hard and I think this iswhy I really applaud you for what you're trying to do [00:11:00] now and where your mission and purpose is coming from, because. It's something which is not gonna be. Mainstream norm. Potentially, hopefully one day. Yes. But what you creating and I'm sort of joining these dots together, like what you're creating is actually a hands-on experience that us back, let's say by 20, 30 years when this was a norm.

you know, people would be colliding at home, people

would be working with their hands away from screens. And This is this is what's really interesting because. When you talk about Collash,

 it makes me think of this sort of scattered sort of story that's, that we kind of pick together as

humans, that we don't necessarily know who we are, and it's kind of our lifetime was working out who

we are picking up these pieces together. Where it feels like what you do with

collage is very much creating this sort of, it's not a bigger picture, but creating the picture of people and the expression. But before we talk more about collage, I think we should still stay with,

the. Topic of, [00:12:00] dyslexia And schooling and actually how you

felt for all of this and how did you find this outlet Because you felt, in your own words, you felt like you were a black sheep and, black sheep. Again, there's a different connotations to words. As you say, the

words mean something. The words have got bigger meaning

and, and a huge effect on people. But normally, black sheep would be

sort of reserved to someone who really is, you know, the bad one.

You know, the old one out. Not necessarily by just

not being just like all the others. That must been quite a lot of weight to carry with yourself to feel that way at a 

young age. 

Sarah: Yeah, absolutely. It definitely brought on feelings of inferiority

and worthlessness. Which also then I guess, led to me being a lot more isolated in my teens and my twenties. And it's fascinating 'cause people would say to my mom, oh, Sarah, she's quite shy, isn't she? And like, actually looking back, I'm not shy at all.

 I've learned to isolate myself because I was shut [00:13:00] out at school and I was carrying so much shame and felt so disconnected. Not just from my peers, but from myself. 

 So that was an interesting revelation, I guess, in just finding out, you're not these labels that now people are putting on you, that you are shy is actually not about that at all.

It's about the fact that you are carrying the shame and isolating

yourself I guess that finding collage has been a way of, reclaiming and restoring all of my organic parts of myself. It's not just the healing part of it, it's about

exploring all of those elements that I

suppressed for so long.

Radim part 1: When you said were shy and being told you are shy by other person, parent, or, other people around My con reminded me of my conversation with James Victoria, we know that James Victoria isn't shy at all, and, but I.

Loved hearing his [00:14:00] story when he was saying that his dad used to say, Hey, this is Jimmy. He's the shy one. And James is like, am I the shy one? So you get that a label is not lived in. you know, being being shy, I think is one of the most misunderstood labels and feelings and expressions that we have in our

language because it can mean so many different things.

I think shy is just a lack of lived and experience in a situation that others have got massive head start in. if,if you get that label from someone who's 40, which it must have taken them some time to be just okay to be in the room it seems so unfair I I think to be able to express yourself in public and social situations in work, you know, in any other way, it just requires the reps and, how can you expect someone who hasn't had the reps, hasn't done the reps to be saying. Yeah, yeah, of course. I'm not shy, just let me show you my, you theater side of myself just doesn't exist.

So

Radim part 1: it sounds Like a very emotionally demanding

[00:15:00] time when. it makes you feel isolated through almost third person

narrative, if that 

makes sense. 

Sarah: Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. And now I guess starting a business, you are pushing yourself out of the comfort zone even more from all of this kind of baggage that you've picked up along the road as well. So that's interesting in itself just now.

it's about putting in

the reps, even though it's bringing so much stuff up.

Radim part 1: So let's talk about a collage because like onceyou start putting few pieces together, you discovering almost

hidden meanings and creating these unexpected stories that you wouldn't always have known from just seeing not to.

 seemingly

disconnected dots that you put in together. So let's talk about the magic of that discovery. 

Sarah: after I finished my bachelor's

in graphic design, I got a job. I had two kind of more design role jobs Within the. Commercial industry. So I worked for a year [00:16:00] as a brand

manager for a floristry company, and then I worked for a

year as a marketing design manager for an

independent jewelers.

 And I was finding with both of, these roles that I was in creative roles, but I

didn't really feel like I, I was creative. And I, wasn't feeling fulfilled within these roles. yeah, I wasn't

feeling very fulfilled within these roles.

so anyway, I looked at doing a master's in visual communication, and at the time I was really,

Keen to go towards a career in branding.

 So this would've been my mid twenties. And then jumped onto the Masters of Visual Communication course at Solen because I'd obviously had a great experience there from doing my BA Interestingly, when we got to the final, major project I wanted to find a way of generating original ideas.

And somebody had mentioned collage, which is really interesting because when I'd done my bachelor's, we'd had a [00:17:00] term on collage and I, I had such a bias about it, I thought it was just kids play. I was like, this is nonsense. Like, why are we doing

this? and I had a very opinionated friend that was also on board with this

we're like, this is

just ridiculous that we've got a whole term doing this. So I had just thought it was

complete nonsense, but I think when I got to my master's level, I

wanted to question that bias because I was starting to realize that a lot

of the assumptions I had

about creativity were very wrong. So I decided

to explore collage for that reason, to understand why I thought it was invaluable, why Why I thought it was

 valuable to spend my time doing it.

 And there was kind of an inkling to just try it and explore.

 So I ended up, so originally the

project, I put my proposals together and it was gonna be about how collage could generate ideas for branding, but it quickly became something

else when I was doing [00:18:00] kind of daily practices and realizing that actually

this is doing something else

 intrinsically that I need to explore.

 So it's really

interesting that when people come to workshops and they're like, I'm not creative. I have

empathy for that because I was there once, like I was at a point where I thought, 

 and that's also down to what we're told at school, I I also think that another reason why collage is perhaps more accessible to people, whether they think they're creative or not, is because I think a lot of people were told in art school that they can't draw. Whereas was there many people in school that weren't, were told they can't collage or there wasn't so much of a,thing, I guess, for me particularly, like you don't get graded on your collage at school, but you get graded on your, drawing or your painting.

So maybe there's less of a barrier there because we didn't have that art form as kids

Potentially 

Radim part 1: It's really interesting what you're describing [00:19:00] because I would've never thought that something that you're so passionate about was once for your assumption.

Something that, in your own words, you said it was

nonsense. 

 That is really interesting because I thought maybe there have been some sort of clear line and you were like just reinvigorating the love for the subject, but to have such a 180 about it, you know, the 

topic and

realizing, you know what,

 this potentially could work because what you, describing about collage and.

 Personally, my experience of

collage was more digital. Like, I've kindI've kind of created a lucrative illustration career for nearly a decade by

being a digital collages with, you know, doing digital illustration, kind of putting things together.

 and

I would've never thought

that, I wasn't good enough.

Not that I was a hundred percent, you know, in the right place, but I was.

 Mesmerized by the possibilities of actually putting

different pieces together. Stock imagery, you know, drawn

layers, that kind of stuff. Because when you think about it.

Everything that we do is more or less a [00:20:00] collage of ideas 

 Definitely no, can be putting together different subjects together on a side by side or even just using different media or different colors in some way.

 There is a

mixture of these sort of visual color written or ingredients

that you put together. So So when you set people come to the collage and say, I'm not good at collage, it was like, I'm not good at everything that I have never done before. I mean, it's just a 

natural truth. Right. 

Sarah: Yeah, absolutely. 

Radim part 1: Yeah, because the comment about,for example, with, branding clients or just general clients, they're like, oh, you're the creative one. No, I'm not good at drawing. I'm like, you don't know how good you are compared to me because I'm terrible at drawing, but I'm just good at solving problems.

 just because I'm a creative job doesn't mean that I'm a Picasso in hiding, you know? And also all the other things all together. So, I mean, that that must be quite an interesting experience when you get those people to come up and say, I'm not good at this.

 Because all you can really tell them, it's just get 

started. 

Sarah: Yeah. And I think it's also, learning to get a point that it's not about having an aesthetically pleasing image at the end of this. It's about the [00:21:00] process and it's about being present over the product, and the performance of it.

Does that to me is where the value is.

Radim part 2: What I want to get into, Sarah, is to get to the tactile nature of 

when you talk about collage and for people who may have not seen your work or the shapes, papers or 

what you use, I think we need to put a bit 

more color into that information of okay, what sort of 

type of visuals are people putting together?

Like, what are they creating? What was it for you that you've discovered for your collage? Obviously we've not, we've heard about your ma and the project 

and, challenge in the medium, but there is a zillion and one different pieces of magazines, papers, posters, Antique stuff. You know, there's a lot of different pieces that you could put together. So where did you start looking for your source materials, for your 

ingredients?

Sarah: So when I originally started my practice, because I was exploring, emotional intimacy around collage. I, [00:22:00] basically started writing out diary entries for months. I would take a diary entry, I think I wrote out diary entries for each month of the previous year. And then I would combine that into three words that summarize the diary entry. then I would find imagery. 

So it could be abstract or it could be literal, but basically I was just finding, and not even necessarily going out to do it, but I would find what I had to hand that matched these words.

And then I started creating collages out of that. And I was starting to feel a sense of being seen through my work and process on a probably very self-conscious level what I'd gone through. So that was the start of my practice. the more practice I got into and I was trying different things, I was trying, like creating collage just in black and white [00:23:00] to start with just with one color and kind of finding my way in what helped ground 

me and get more focused,

 but the other thing I also think is really valuable is I went through a season of reading The Artist's Way by Julia Cameron, and I couldn't get into that because it's very, again, like the practice of the morning pages is obviously all very text-based. So I kind of see my collage practice as a visual way of doing the morning pages. So I use collage. My collage practice has basically become a way of getting out what's inside with what's to hand, 

Radim part 2: because it's actually perfect. It's really interesting how the. Have you taken Julia Cameron's book and the daily pages to the fact that, you made it your own? Because I've seen that book given to people who are already practicing artists and.

 I feel like that book is for people who are stuck. They're looking for [00:24:00] something. They need that really long narrative, that sort of long conversation with an imaginary friend about the fact that what you doing and it's somewhere hidden that you need to do. And bought the book, I've got the audio book because I haven't got that much time to read.

but I can get through a lot of audio books and. It was good. It gave me lots of interesting narratives, but it really speaks to a person who really needs to find that artist who really needs to find what is it that they want to do. At least that's my own experience. I'm sure that not everyone who's read it has got a different experience about it, but.

 what I normally do is my little trick, and this is a helpful trick to anyone listening to this. Buy lots of books during the year, and even if you don't get to read them in a year, just give them out as Christmas presents and people will say, you got such a good taste in books. Thank you. This is my method. I buy like 20 books a year and I give out 20 books for Christmas and everyone's really happy like But in your answer, you said some incredible things that really speaks to [00:25:00] how the practice of morning pages or the sort of daily collage. You know, when you said I was exploring the emotional intimacy. 

 Those are beautiful words in describing how you feel about a subject, because you mentioned that you did daily entries and then you summarized in three words and then try to create into 

imagery.

Radim part 2: you have invented your own morning 

pages in your practice to actually understand what was going on in your world and doing it that way. So it's just, sometimes you can see with other people's discoveries almost oh, there's this one moment where. 

The now versus how came together and it's like,this is what I'm doing.

Whereas in your case, I feel like 

this is this gradual, as you said, gradual emotional intimacy, exploration of collage that has been so helpful to discovering where you are and to find yourself so rooted in what you wanna do. 'cause it seems like your foundation is so strong now 

To do this. 

Sarah: Absolutely. And I think it's fascinating how these practices Have not [00:26:00] only allowed me as a dyslexic to lean on my strengths as a more visual thinking, but it's also helped me heal in terms of self-worth, belief and confidence that I never had before. And it's made huge difference in the past year where I've noticed because of that practice, I am not reacting to situations in my life.

I'm responding to situations in my life, and I have a greater awareness because I've had the time within my collage practice to explore my emotions and the parts that I'd suppressed. 

Radim part 2: That's really interesting. It reminded me of the words I had recently 

saying, in some 

situations, stop being absorber and be observer. You know, don't absorb what's happening, but actually observe what's happening. And it's. So great to hear that you're growing that sort of emotional resilience and you know that sort of social endurance to understand how certain situations can trigger.

The [00:27:00] old, you the, the thing that happened in the past, because our lives are this continuous journey of discovering how to operate this vessel, this vehicle that we've been given. You know, how to understand the driver inside, like how to how to self accept and then set up on a journey of curiosity and gratitude and,yeah.

It's so amazing to know. 

that, the collage has become your sanctuary 

and a place where you can, you know, you can explore it in a practical and playful way that, helps you to let go 

of, perfectionism and celebrate what makes you unique.

 Yes, I have just paraphrased your Instagram post. 

 I have just very much done that. But, I wanna get to do the mechanical bit for a a short 

while, because. To me, when you put 

together, again, feels very unique. I mean, it, does feel 

 like that's what it should be, but where do you 

get the physical ingredients? Like where do you get, obviously not in your case, boxes of papers and all of that stuff, but where do you source the visuals 

that 

ultimately you [00:28:00] present and provide for others to, to

put put together?

So where does this come from?

Sarah: Originally, there's three things I've done basically, firstly, going back to 

Julia Cameron, she talks about going on artist dates. Now, what I was doing when I first started my practice was I was going on artist dates to collect ephemera, particularly from charity shops. I would rather be giving money to charity shops. So I would go on an artist date, particularly to find imagery that spoke to whatever I was ever theme I was working on from my diary entries. And those elements would go into my collage. So that's one source is that I often go thrifting. Second source is that I had a grandmother that hoarded for years and her whole life, and she was also a sewer, so a lot of her old, pieces of papers and even she'd done some paintings, which I also have put [00:29:00] into my collage, but it kind of, her old papers also tie into this idea of renewal and recycle and, using what we already have.

 making old things new honoring the past as well and honoring where we've come from. So that's the second source, that is probably quite valuable is that I've also used a lot of things that I've inherited over the years. and third source actually is tying in still charity shops.

So basically a lot of charity shops. And I also try and focus on just using block color, pattern, color and scraps from my own mark making within the university. So I'm still I'm an artist in residence still until April at the university, which has also been a blessing. And I use a lot of my own scraps from screen printing as another, form of sourcing imagery.

 So there's the three. So [00:30:00] basically charity shops what I've inherited and printing materials off. Cuts. There we go. We got 

Radim part 2: , I hope that your ground, looking back at you, down going, what you doing? 

Radim part 2: You just chopped it all up. But

Sarah: I think she'd get into it. 

Radim part 2: think she would be happy that this is ongoing in a circular motion 

that what she's once provided and created actually is being reused now. So with your workshops, I mean, you, you've, I, in my opinion, and that's an admiration and a definition of dare and creativity, you're doing something that now is your business that you would have definitely regretted never starting because 

 we honored the business of creativity or creativity of business is never gonna be easy.

In fact, it's not meant to be easy. you've created this reality for yourself where. 

You're providing this firsthand experience to other people potentially 

to find themselves and find their 

outlet and find their missing pieces that they can 

collage together and find, you know, something new. 

What I want to [00:31:00] ask you is like,

what? people can expect from when they come to your collages. And what is the experience 

of, you know, having this sort of a few data points of running a business and running workshops 

What was it like to see that, what you creating for others in practice and seeing their experiences and yeah, seeing 

their experiences.

Sarah: been really fascinated by the whole process of it because I just, there's such a privilege in watching people. Create side by side with their hands and not on a device and connecting in that way. And I find that such a privilege to witness. But I think for me it's about the main top priority is making people feel safe and supported and to try and empower them.

 So you are guiding them through a process, but you are not doing it for them. And I think I've, I'm growing in like [00:32:00] because I'm so aware of language and how that can have an effect on people, I am learning to use my language towards myself and towards other people to empower them in their ability to be creative.

 So that's something I'm really keen to do. even like on a. Non linguist level when you're showing things to people, like not being try and get to their level, sit at their level, work at their level with them, because at the end of the day, I'm learning as they're learning through this process. And I think there's some serious power in that as well. Instead of just putting people a stage or pedestals, but like getting side by side in the trenches with them. Like,this is something we're both working on together because we both need to reclaim our creativity because it's both innately needed for all of us.

 that kind of answer the question? Have I 

Radim part 2: Percent. Yeah.no. 

Sarah: I think people are also really surprised when they come out the other side of a workshop and they're like, [00:33:00] wow, I've just made something that, and I've had the capacity to just play. And it's been such a gift and I hope that, what I'd like to be able to be at a point with the business is to get people in a routine more frequently to understand the power of creating, even on a small level for half an hour a day, how much that will make a difference to their wellbeing.

Radim part 2: what you describe so beautifully and that, I'm loving the parallel with Artist Way by Julia Cameron. Like when you said I'm going on artist dates or, so I've been going on artist dates, you know, thrifting and finding and cutting up your grounds pieces. I hope she's okay with that.

 Um, It's that moment of stepping out of your reality and doing something different because it's so easy to. Make your reality suffocating or okay, I have to earn, I have to do this, I have to do this. Well, This is my business. like, is there something else I can do? Is there somewhere you know, I can find an outlet?

 Because when you talked about, creating an [00:34:00] environment which is safe and supporting you are recreating the thing that you wish existed in the world when you needed the most. So you're creating that forward for other people. And that's what makes the most sense, because when you said you know, I'm trying to get them just to enjoy it for half an hour, how would you take 'em off from their reality and show them that there's something else?

Because if we keep going in the same way all the time, nothing's gonna change. It's just like, how would you remove them and give it to them because you do it as you were saying, like, I'm learning as their learning.

Because if you were to forever them in a few boxes of QAR paper and some glue stakes and say, Hey, off you go, and we'll see what happens. Who knows what will happen. you know, I think you're putting yourself in this position where you. I working with people who might feel vulnerable or might feel, don't, I don't want to use the word shy, but they might feel like, I don't know what's coming next, but then you can see the sense of wonder.

Right? Okay. they get stuck in, obviously they're breaking through that initial barrier and then you realize like,oh my 

God, I've put this together. These people are 

listening to me, what I [00:35:00] want them to do, 

and then I can see the benefit of what I've asked them to 

do. That actually it works because.

 facilitating my 

workshops about mental health and all sorts of things, personal topics 

 people getting stuck in and opening up and realizing, oh, I've just taken 

two hours outta my life to look 

at, let's say 20, 30 years of working life. 

Only realizing like, why didn't I do more often?

Why 

don't I, or the person why I doing more often? So I think this sort of sanctuary 

that you create for people, just sort of this parallel universe. 

 It's so important because, yeah, you growing stronger and your business is growing more, with a stronger foundation.

 Knowing that what you're creating is a data point of how to make the future 

experiences 

even more nourishing to people who need, safe and supported environment. 

Sarah: Yeah, and that's on an emotional level, but like on a physical level as well. We don't have enough, spaces to connect on a physical level either nowadays because, like what I'm [00:36:00] finding with the people are hungry to be in these atmospheres where they're making with their hands. So they can't hold a phone while they're making with their hands and they're like making eye contact with human beings in a room and there's no devices to hand because, and I think that in itself, on a physical level is needed more and more as we keep driving towards connectivity over connection.

Do you know what I mean, 

Radim part 2: Makes perfect, absolutely perfect sense. 

Radim part 2: Yeah, I mean, it's, would you describe it? I mean, it's, it feels so beautifully analog. It feels so. And what that expression is like, What is the distance between your brain and your tool?

You know, so that, that is the expression, how far do we need to go for something to happen and how we learn to make that distance even shorter when our brains don't have to think about it. And you've got these people in the room that. this. should be a norm. almost I normally say like we live we live in a Disneyland.

you can't have anything anytime, anywhere, 

 in any ship, in any color, right? Any [00:37:00] experience, any type of food. And you don't have to go far anywhere. 'cause I mean, we have made convenience, very convenient and inescapable. 

 when you say people are crying out for these experiences, like how have we 

lost the ability to make stuff with our hands?

Because we've created everything else so noisy that. 

 someone can say, yeah, I can do it on my iPhone. 

Like of course you can, but, you know, enjoy what's coming next 

afterwards. 

 Would you agree? Like, for your own 

business and for your own data, do you ask people about their day-to-day experiences, like how they go around their lives and how you can potentially tailor your course, your workshops even better 

to help their needs?

Sarah: I haven't done that yet, I think what I have learned in the last few months is that it is for me, because I've also come on such a long journey. There's so many intricacies, I guess and different layers to my collage practice. think I've come so far from [00:38:00] day one that I have to kind of go back to, okay, what helped me at day one to get into this and then make it accessible to that entry point.

 And I think what I've also learned inlast workshop that I did, actually, we are going to dial it back to everybody just bringing a journal and e every month we do a,a new collage on a journal page and share that. And I think it's just getting back to the basics. my data points come from the conversations I have at the workshops. I don't have a questionnaire that people fill in, but I guess I have these conversations in real time at the workshops.

Radim part 2: that's what I meant. I wasn't necessarily asking you,can you interrogate your people but it's more about the conversation about like,actually what do you find out from their stories, 

because. It's amazing when you get in that safe and supported environment with people, they will open up and often they will open up because they haven't been able to open up to people they haven't been able to share.

And most and more than anything, from my personal [00:39:00] experience as a facilitator, 

 it's to realize how we are all equal 

in this life. We create so many false 

narratives about, how do you feel that some people are more successful or 

more better looking, more connected, more affluent, whatever. And it's all 

just us creating stories. and most of them, those stories are so widely accurate to the reality that, yeah. It's only when you really share how you feel and whatnot, what you feel and what you're going through with other people. That's the real leveler. So it sounds like that environment, what you're creating gives you the idea of what's really happening in 

other people's 

worlds.

Right.

Sarah: Yeah, for sure. Absolutely. And I,I learn something new every,session or, Absolutely. love that learning about people in that data collection le because I wouldn't have got this from any sort of generic job either, which is what I think is growing me as a human, is that I'm having to put myself in places that [00:40:00] allows my confidence to grow and my connections with other people and all of these data points allows me to be more empathetic and to gear the workshop every time, just a bit closer to what people are needing on that level.

Radim part 2: I like that. Use the word empathy. 

 It, you know, to be empathetic because it's, you know, you talked about out-of-body experiences when things were not quite right. I say not quite right when things were very not right. And now you almost have sort of similar out body experiences, but in the positive direction because you care how people experience your workshops, what you can do for them and what they can take home. Because we sometimes feel that we need to go through all sorts of, reading how many stacks of books, and listening to all sorts of podcasts and get stuck in hours of therapy.

But it could be literally just a two hour experience. We can show you what are those pieces that you need to put together to actually start. Forming just, a direction 

sign. It doesn't have to be the format by just knowing where to go [00:41:00] with it, right? 

Sarah: Absolutely. 

Radim part 2: What I know, from your experience of being highly dyslexic and being almost shamed in public or shamed in schoolly, you had a massive knock on your

confidence when it comes to expressing yourself in the public space. And we all go through this. I mean, I'm not saying we all go through, such horrific experiences, but just expressing yourself in public

can feel so hard and again.

Is the reps. You know, we haven't put those pieces together. You haven't that experience.

And I always looked when I was like in my in my sort of early twenties and I saw people who were

 40 plus and they stood up in a public space. start, they started speaking. I'm like, how the hell are you doing this?

What's going on? Then you just realize that

you kind of just teach yourself to

not really care what you think that the feedback loop is. You know, it's just like all I can say is what I can do and I can always only be me.

 And in your case, I know that even for you to facilitate these 

workshops takes a lot of your emotional energy because public [00:42:00] speaking is still something 

that

 doesn't come to you naturally.

Even though you know, you put in the reps in and you. Need 

to sort of just learn even that bit

yourself. So I really applaud you for doing so many things that take you so much out of your many comfort zones, but you putting those pieces together. And I think that's a really

interesting experience for others to know and have shared from your experience that.

 I haven't met

anyone who would be a natural public speaker. I've met so many confident people and everyone's 

got their something. Everyone's got their Achilles heel. So in your case, I think, you know, when you're, open about it, you know, with your workshops and stuff, I

think that's a really liberating piece, to feel that way and to express it and say, look, you might, you know, you might 

not feel confident, nor do

I 

Sarah: Yeah. Thank you. I think I am learning to just also, I think it's May Angelou. That said she learned from a really early age to have her own back. And I think that I [00:43:00] am now reveling in getting in the reps because I can give myself a kudos just for showing up and just getting an extra rep in.

And the more reps you do you just marginally. Get a little bit closer to confidence every time, and that there's no ceiling to that. 

 today I get anxiety over sending a voice note and I've just come on a podcast.

Radim part 2: I mean, that's the reps, because when you say, like, when I feel confident and just don't know. When we actually say I am confident because it just, it's so circumstantial about how so many things need to align in a way that we need to work because, you know, we've got our life inputs, as I said, we are, we make false narratives.

We, you know, what we put into our bodies, how we exist, what it all adds out because, you know, you can have a confident public speaker. They have a bad day. Everyone has a bad [00:44:00] day. Everything. Not everything is a hundred percent aligned and this is the part that, you know, just because you got somewhere doesn't mean that you're going to win all the time.

AndYeah, so let's say for example, let's say,I'll be watching a Formula One movie, and it kind of, it makes you realize how these people are driving these million pound, multimillion pound vehicles around the, around, track.

 There's, the team is about 700 people deep and everything's tuned to a maximum detail. But it all circumstantial. Something doesn't go right, something out of places with other influences go. Right. So it's likeNot anyone can say Today is my day and I can do whatever I can do today.

Because again, I think having the sort of outside measure 

of our successes, our of results. You know, when you take an outside measure to your personal,

achievements, it's never gonna be real. 

Because yeah, as you said, I'm doing 

just well enough just by showing up, and that's the first step.

You know, the motivation [00:45:00] comes from the action. You know, it doesn't, you know, to be motivated to do something it is not gonna be to anything because you need to step out

and do that stuff. What does it feel like for you to be getting ready and getting the show on the road and showing up and have that sort of, I need to guess what sort of feelings you might be going through about what does it feel like for 

You 

Sarah: it's definitely getting easier. Every time I do a workshop, I still get really bad anxiety, even if it's a small number. And I think, it's been a blessing in starting with people I know and then growing out to bigger, wider audiences with my workshops. the first one I had, my hands were shaking so badly when I was showing how to make a book, and somebody in the workshop was like, Sarah, stop shaking.

You know, all of us. I was like, I can't, I'm doing this, but I'm shaking like a leaf. so I think breath work makes a difference. Affirmations make a difference. Rightly [00:46:00] so. Looking at how far you've come doesn't mean that it's a bad thing.

It's you still succeeded and positive things came out of that bring all the bad, good and ugly out of it, you're still moving forward. I think I'm continually learning to let myself be seen and supported. I obviously isolated myself for a lot of years because of the tactics I learned growing up to survive with dyslexia.

 I'm learning to let the people around me help me and support, well,because it's, that's the other thing with the collage practice is that it's enabled me to realize that leaning into my family friends is not an intellectual thing. I need to do it on a gut level in order to sustain.

 The business that I'm trying to move forward and for it to have longevity. 

Radim part 2: Absolutely. You've said so many amazing things that anyone listening and taking, even mental notes will realize how important that is. I read a trick about how to start a [00:47:00] podcast and it said, don't interview imposing people at first, interview your friends and then ramp it up.

 And that's exactly what I did. I just asked a lot of my mates just to, to, to help me realize what I can do, because I can tell you that this is a conversation, I think 112 that I've recorded. And I still at the beginning go, Ooh, how? How do I start? What do I do? Because I'm a great improviser. You know, I show people the blank piece of paper and say like, I've got no questions.

 But that what makes us feel alive. And in your case, it's just like when you say like you've created for yourself these tactics, how to

isolate yourself. So it's only makes sense to come out. You know, slowly and get the reps in and just realize it's all okay because some of the stuff that you do,

Plays to the long-term memory.

So like you just gain that

confidence and the best part of what you do that, when you stay on this track and when you start exploring and growing.

 best part of about this is getting older and actually having done more lived in experience to know that.

All of this matters So little in the long [00:48:00] term.

'cause when you know, when you step away from all red, when you sort of have an

elevated view of the situation, you realize, what was I worrying about? And that retrospective

is valuable

because. As I said, and what I see, the four steps of our sort of creative

lives of staring creativity is that you know, you've got the vessel, you know, you've got a body that we don't always

understand why the flip it works in a certain way, you know, like why am my

hand shaking? why is my brain telling me this? why do our fear s saber-tooth tiger when I'm sharing my work with thousand strangers

online? You know, like this is the biological stuff that we

need to, learn in a parallel to these most amazing tools that we've got available to us.

Because we don't have a choice,

But vessel, we step in. But when we are find, when we find

ourselves in that vessel as the driver or as the, the one that stares, 

We accept who we are and say, okay, this is who I am. Okay. My hands are shaking like, oh, okay, that's me.

okay, well yours know it, but then you've got something else, you know? And then you go in the place of curiosity and gratitude because what would you describe it?

 It's a hundred percent that curiosity that.

[00:49:00] No, you're just not stopping and you've chosen to create your own universe where you survive and thrive and with the survive is just not to letting in you not teaching 

yourself how to get through those elements that

 some people might find as a hindrance or not might impede your progress, 

but you showing up, you're doing 

these beds and you know you're thriving in 

this. it might not, some people might be thinking like. I don't think collage business is the one that's gonna, you know, buy a beautiful house or whatever. But

 ultimately it is one of the means of creating something different that should grow. and I think with what you're creating

is such an important thing 

 to bring it to the wider audience and actually reconnect with the

basics.

Create safe and supported environment where people can really

reconnect with themselves because. 

As much as we are connected through our devices, we are so disconnected even with ourselves, let alone with one another.

Sarah: Yeah. Absolutely. And I also think I've been really, Thinking this week [00:50:00] about how, at the end of the day, whatever you choose in life, there's hardships that come with it. I'm so grateful that I get to choose that I'm in a season where I get to choose my hardships. I'm just so grateful for that. 

Radim part 2: and the only person to be grateful for it is you because you've chosen to do it. And I'm gonna quote. the messenger of the quote, which is Jimmy Carr who said, 

hard choices, easy life, easy choices, hard life. 

And what if, everything you're describing, those are hard choices.

You know, you could have made it easy for yourself. 

Be back in that job, not 

unfulfilled, not be feeling creatively unfulfilled. 

Radim part 2: And feeling a little bit stuck, whereas what you're doing now, obviously it's not gonna be easy. No 

type of business is easy, and it's only a journey that we've embarked onto to prove to ourselves that, you know, being daring, pushing yourself to the places that you want to go will make you look upon a journey and say, look, I don't regret making any of these steps.

 Sarah. I believe this conversation is gonna be [00:51:00] valuable to so many people because it comes from very much a deep place of vulnerability, you know, transparency and salute you for, you know, being here. Because if you say, you I struggle to send a voice note, and now you're here for more than an hour, that means 

that's another step towards something that.

 It's gonna bring so much, you know, joy and value into your life. So I,I really thank

you for sharing 

this with me because I think this is a very important conversation to share with 

people. 

Sarah: Thank you so much and that's absolute honor. I just appreciate you so much Adam. you are such a lifeline and I really appreciate that you meet people where they're at and you just lift them up.

Radim part 2: Thank you. I have to finish with one quote, which is, yours. And it's,it's, this is what you shared on, Instagram. It says, these days I realize I'm not a 

black sheep. I'm a unicorn that refuses to fit in a horse box. 

Sarah: Yeah. 

Radim part 2: It just, it's a beautiful way to say, you know what, I am who I am, and I'm living my best

life. Sarah, it's been a pleasure to have you here today, and thank you for sharing your story with me.

Sarah: [00:52:00] Thank you Adam.