Malika Favre is one of the most recognisable illustrators working today — a master of bold geometry, reduced palettes, and images you feel before you decode. George Wu is a graphic designer, event director, product creator, and by her own admission, a jack of all trades. Together, they created I Can't Afford This But Maybe She Can — a curation account that started as a private joke between two best friends and grew into a 350,000-follower community, a newsletter with a 70%+ open rate, and a full concept store with over 300 products from 90 independent brands worldwide.

This conversation captures why that happened — and what it actually takes to build something meaningful without a business plan, a marketing budget, or any intention of selling out.

Key Takeaways

• Friendship is a creative force. Malika and George's decade-long friendship is the foundation of everything — the trust, the honesty, and the courage to post without approval-seeking.
• Curation is care made visible. Their process — going down rabbit holes, translating Japanese craft websites, following follower trails — shows the difference between sharing and truly giving a damn.
• Ego is the first thing to go. George's journey from curating for approval to posting freely mirrors a shift every creative needs to make at some point.
• Innovation vs. perfection isn't a conflict — it's a team. George chases the new; Malika pursues the perfect. Their output is both.
• Building outside the algorithm is an act of resistance. No reels, no faces, no sponsored clutter — and 350k people followed anyway because the care was unmistakable.
• Monetising without compromising is the hardest part. The shop, the newsletter, the auction house commission — each step has been deliberate, values-led, and brutally honest about what isn't working yet.
• The last mile is rarely crowded. Their willingness to go further — to find the fourth-generation kite maker in Japan, to contact every one of 90 brands individually — is exactly why their audience trusts them.

Daring Forever. Podcast with Radim Malinic

daringcreativity.com |  desk@daringcreativity.com

Books by Radim Malinic Paperback and Kindle > https://amzn.to/4biTwFc
Free audiobook (with Audible trial) > https://geni.us/free-audiobook
Book bundles  https://novemberuniverse.co.uk

Lux Coffee Co. https://luxcoffee.co.uk/  (Use: PODCAST for 15% off)
November Universe https://novemberuniverse.co.uk (Use: PODCAST for 10% off)

George: I would see all these things that I'd sent you almost. I was shopping in real time. It was literally every week

Malika: I literally had a free personal shopper,

George: as a joke as you can imagine, I was torn between insane jealousy and also curiosity of what I could get Malika to buy. I made a Instagram account for literally an audience of one, I called it, I can't afford this, but maybe she can, me being the one that I can't afford this.

And started like posting genuinely things that I really loved. And then Malik would comment on the bottom saying, Hey, I am buying this one, I'm buying this one. And then they would appear in our house. I left it open to the public because I didn't know anything about Instagram and who's gonna follow this account Anyway, it was just a really silly idea. 

Radim: Welcome to the Daring Creativity Podcast, a show about daring to forever explore creativity that isn't about chasing shiny perfection. It's about showing up with all your doubts and imperfections and making them count. It's about becoming more of who you already are. My name is Radim Malinic I'm a designer, author, and eternally curious human being.

 I am talking to a broad range of guests who share their stories of small actions that sparked lifetime discoveries, taking one step towards the thing that made them feel most alive. 

 Let me begin this episode with a question. Are you ready to discover what happens when you dare to create? 

What happens when a shared joke between two friends become a 350,000 strong community and nobody plant any of it? My guest today, Malika Favre, is one of the most celebrated illustrators known for work that reduces the complex to the essential, and makes you look twice. George Wu is a graphic designer maker and self-described reluctant influencer.

Together. They created, I can't afford this, but maybe she can. A curation feed built on friendship, taste, and the fierce refusal to sell out. In our conversation, we talk about building with love and no budget. Curating is an act of generosity and what it means to post an audience of one when algorithms will never beat someone who genuinely cares.

This episode is full of Joyce and it's my pleasure to share with you my conversation with Malika Favre and George Wu.

 Hey, Malika. Hey George. How are you doing today?

George: Good, thank you. Yeah, it's pretty sunny down here. I'm in Hove near Brighton and Malik is always in the sun 

Malika: It is literally been raining for two days and we're on a high alert of winds, so that's wrong. But I'm in Barcelona, so usually it is, but it's been pretty dreadful this past few days. I,

George: I love it how you're wearing the biggest scarf in the world.

Radim: yeah this is, the fact. We based in England. You're in Barcelona, but you've got the scarf and we dawned.

Malika: Exactly, which is actually part of a process I call ization. It's like when I moved here after 16 years in London, I thought, oh my God, I'm gonna be warm all the time. It's gonna be heaven. Truth is like after one year, you start being cold on 20 degrees. It's insane.

Radim: This is the thing. I've got a friend who moved from, London to, Barcelona. I went to Off and I saw him for, dinner just before BA of Barcelona. And he's 18 degrees, 20 degrees. And he's like wearing a winter jacket and I'm like, you know when people say you've changed? Definitely he's changed because, ' cause years ago he'd be walking around London in shorts and t-shirt at 20 degrees.

Malika: exactly. And that's how you see the locals around here.

Radim: we've given our listeners a crash course on where well, where everyone's based, which is amazing. And Malika, we all need to put up a picture of your big scarf somewhere because this is, it's quite impressive. It's like that sort of a Lenny Kravitz moment. I think when you get popped outside when you go for your groceries it'll be Glenn Kravitz 2.0.

Thanks for both of you to actually be here today, because I've seen your talk at, the Birmingham Design Festival, and I was just impressed with what you guys do, how you do it, how you've created your own version of daring creativity in a way of inventing your future. Because you both have careers, respective careers that doing so well for you.

But there is something your project, I can't afford this, but maybe she can, which turned into something of its own. And the story behind it and the energy behind it is something that I really wanted to share here today because it's something that I wish that a lot more people would be encouraged by a story.

So as I normally say on the show, for those who may have not heard of you how would you introduce yourself? Malika will start with you.

Malika: So I'm French. You can probably hear that by the accent. And basically my, let's say my real life career and job is I'm an illustrator. So I've been an illustrator for the past 15 years. Started my career in London and I've the luxury of working for myself not having anyone telling me what to do, which is brilliant.

And I love it. Literally, I'm paid to draw.

Radim: and what about you, George? What, who are you, what'd you do?

George: I'm George. I am English as you can hear. What do I do? I'm probably one of those. Annoying creative people that are being a bit vague with when they say what they do. Right now, I'm a graphic designer. But I would say that maybe I'm I, kinda like to dabble in a lot of different things. So I've done events directing product designing to a certain extent.

So I'm a bit of jack of all trades. 

Radim: Monica, I'm I've been aware of your career for at least 15 years, but I feel like it's been even longer. But I remember in your talk, one of your first ever illustrations, was it a stripper that you draw or was that, 

Malika: ah, no. It was the first ever, like the one, let's say a key drawing from my childhood was a dominatrix with a whip when I was nine, which my mom very carefully kept in a drawer, which I think is actually, is a really funny bit because she was, my mom was like the harshest art director you could think of.

I was drawing every day and let's say every year she would keep 10 drawings and throw the rest to the bin and somehow she kept that one. She thought it was very interesting.

Radim: that is very interesting indeed. George, have you got a hidden draw of paintings that good questionable nature?

George: No, I'm just thinking 'cause my son is nearly three and he's only just started drawing but almost, I thought he would pick it up sooner. Obviously very much tiger mom here and he has just managed to do a face, his first circle with eyes and I was so proud that I've decided to keep this in a drawer.

So he's got a long way to go before his dominatrix with whip, 

Malika: Oh, you can just send him over to me, George. Just send him over for a little month's holiday.

George: it's got six more years to reach the same level. So 

my goals, So Mobby, I think will be great for, the podcast to establish. Why are you two here? How did you meet and actually what is it that you do together? Because there's a story, 'cause obviously you had

Radim: your separate careers and now you do work together. So how did it happen?

Malika: we're even actually in separate countries now which is, funny, but I think, which is also one of the reasons why this project happened. George and I have been very good friends for, I'd say more than a decade. No, George.

George: we met in, I wanna say 2008. Was it maybe later?

Malika: Yeah. So I think it was just when I, left Air I, the design studio I was working at and started my illustration career, and it was a serendipity moment where we both got signed by the same production company in London exactly the same week. So we were part of this new onboarding of directors.

I was directing animation. George was making a lot of music videos now and TV I dance and things like that, and London being the small world that it is. I actually knew of George work from a show, a final show at the RCA and I remember her being like a massive crush on her graduation film and, my flatmate knew her, so I knew of her.

 I didn't know her personally. And I think we met that week and I basically jumped at her like a little fun girl.

George: Which is hilarious because by this point Malika was very famous, so I'm quite surprised.

Malika: I just wanted George to be my friend. I was literally trying to bully her into becoming my friend, and it worked.

George: The funny thing is I think I've been to your house many times. I was friends with your flatmate. I've been to house parties in your bedroom and we like years before 

Malika: Yeah, I used to live on Brick Lane, so we used to have these massive house parties where like literally people were coming from the street. So imagine 200 people in your house. So that's probably why we did not meet each other at those parties.

Radim: That makes the level of stalking a little bit smaller. Like at least because if you say, I've been having parties in Monica's bedroom, 

George: I'd like to also say I'm not a random person from the street. I'm going into random parties.

Malika: No, we had a lot of friends in Commons, yeah, designers. I also had friends even from Paris who went to the RCA and went George class. So I think we were bound to meet and yeah, we got on really well. I left, I think I left the animation altogether in production company after one year.

I would say to just focus on illustration because I realized I didn't like it that much. But we stayed friends. So literally this is what happened. And we were friends for a decade very, close friends. And so what happened with this project is it started as like a joke.

No. So you can tell the story of that project.

George: We were, sending each other things that you would dream of buying as any normal friends do your hopes I want to go here on holiday, or one day when I have my own place, I'll buy this chair. And it actually started with, I think it is when Hay was quite new and they released a gold side table that was almost too small to be properly functional.

You couldn't have it as your coffee table and too pretty to want to use it every day. So it was definitely like a luxury dream. I sent this to Malik saying, oh look, at this thing. Gorgeous. And then we went, I think for a week later, we went for a drink. And then Malik was like, oh, by the way, my new my new table is arriving.

And I was like, what? Table? My table. And then it became this weird pattern where I'd go to your house and I would see all these things that I'd sent you almost. I was shopping in real time. It was literally every week

Malika: I literally had a free personal shopper,

George: as a joke as you can imagine, I was torn between insane jealousy and also curiosity of what I could get Malika to buy. I made a Instagram account for literally an audience of one, I called it, I can't afford this, but maybe she can, me being the one that I can't afford this.

And started like posting genuinely things that I really loved. And then Malik would comment on the bottom saying, Hey, I am buying this one, I'm buying this one. And then they would appear in our house. I left it open to the public because I didn't know anything about Instagram and who's gonna follow this account Anyway, it was just a really silly idea.

and, yeah. And then slowly friends started following and then. Members of the public started following and then COVID hit Malika, you moved to Barcelona and then the rise of online shopping happened, right? Everyone was stuck in indoor. So we were all just constantly WhatsApping each other, loads of things.

 And also we were bored. I remember I was doing upholstery courses in my living room. I was like, we were all doing those Zoom pub quizzes we had a lot of time and I remember Malika saying, oh, you know that Instagram thing that you do? By this point, I've been doing it on my own for about three or four years.

No, with no plan. Like I, I almost was posting once every quarter, like it literally wasn't really populating it. And she was like, oh, let May, maybe we do this together. We both post things that we like, we sign them from ourselves and that's how it grew. And we don't consult each other on what we post.

So sometimes the feed looks very harmonious and then sometimes the feed looks insane. Like it's really schizophrenic, but that's the beauty of it yeah, and it grew, I can't remember, I think in his first year it grew to like 50,000 followers in one year. And currently now we're on, correct me if I'm wrong, three hundred and

Malika: Three 50. 

George: fifty.

Oh, sorry, 

Radim: gonna, I'm

actually,

I'm gonna correct you on 3, 5, 8.

Yeah, it is growing.

George: Yeah, and I think the first year ' cause Malika, you've already got a massive following as well, so I think a lot of your audience kind of was like, oh, I'm really interested to see what you're doing. And then, but then after that we noticed that the kind of uptake had plateaued from your account and we'd started reaching people organically through our own feed and it just snowballed.

So definitely no plan, definitely no vision at that point.

Malika: No, but I, I think there is one thing we, had clear when we started was let's, share people doing amazing things. Let's share beautiful objects. And it's true, it started from a very simple this is our dream list. I want this, I can't afford it. So it started very much with like shopping and objects.

 But because we had no limits, it was a love project. No one was paying us to do it. we can post anything we want. So we started posting anything from cakes to beautiful trips, places, hotels. It could literally, it could be anything like Sky was a limit. And I think in a way at that point, the algorithm was already being pretty unkind to a lot of people.

 And what we did shouldn't have worked because we did not put our faces we did not create our own content. We were literally grabbing images left and right and resharing putting car carousel. We didn't, do reels, we didn't do videos, we didn't play the game. But somehow I think there is, especially in our, in the design community, a lot of people were missing that, that kind of old school, almost Tumblr blogging and sharing things just for the beauty of it, 

Radim: yeah, you're absolutely right because I'm a lover of color and everything that you post out there is just it makes you happy. Like it makes you feel something. George, when you say Hey this, has been slightly a bit chaotic. The, feed, this is only what designer can say Hey we need to organize this.

We need to make lists. Because if someone scrolls, it doesn't matter how it looks on the side by side. I'm not trying to cheapen this. 'cause obviously we all put care into our, grids. And then you're like, some people are like, oh, is that what you did? I, it didn't come across. Thank you. But George, what I wanna find out, obviously from you, you are to head curator, at least at the beginning.

Where do you go to find these things? Because obviously you said you were running this for three to four years on your own, right? Because initially you've been providing the shopping links to Malika and she was buying and buying. But your curiosity, where does it take you and where do you find the stuff in the first place?

I definitely, wouldn't give myself a title of head curator knowing that Malika post five post to one a day. So definitely that head curator can go over there. But at the beginning it is interesting because even when we look at the kind of things that we posted at the start is really different to what we post now.

George: So at the beginning I was literally finding your classic design pieces, right? So like things that you would see. In places like Conrad store brands like Hay your proper graphic design loves. And then I guess naturally I have a really big love of fo car. I really love craft, so that's really fed into it.

But what I think is really interesting over the course of the years that we've done this account is actually how much you can let go of your ego. So when it was only an audience of one with Malika, I didn't really care. I'm just putting stuff that I like, right?

And then as soon as our friends started joining, of which there are some very like hipster people and quite judgy people in that group, they might be like I'm not sure about that thing, or that thing. And that kind of paranoia might sink in. And then when we started doing the Instagram together, I almost had the safety of.

 Malika and her giant following. So I was like, okay, I'll go back to posting, what I like and feeling quite secure. But now, because it's grown so dramatically and I've seen posts from I remember Malika posting a, dish of onions in the Shape of Fish or I post what was another crazy one?

a textile designer that does amazing kind of reveals when you cut the threads of like different illustrations, it's almost like now it's total freedom. Anything goes as long as it makes us smile and we find it interesting, then it goes on. So thinking about where we get it from, we've talked about this before.

But yeah, I am a very reluctant influencer. I find social media really difficult. doesn't take long for me to be like someone's on holiday. Oh, that's nice for them. Someone's doing an extension on the house. So I actually have to go out of social media to find stuff and that generally comes from projects that I happen to be working on in my day job or things that I'm interested in, terms of my hobbies.

And I go a bit around the houses and then bring that back in. Whereas I know that Malika, you go at about in a really different way.

Malika: Yeah I like, I'm on a constant fight with the algorithm, so trying to tame it so that it gives me what I want. And I would say that sometimes the algorithm has given me like really interesting things. And when you look at our explore page, like a lot of it is extremely good.

Because I think literally that's the job of the algorithm is to keep you there and to give you what you want. And if you, are very careful about what you look at and what you click on and everything, it will follow you in a way. The problem is that, all that job can be gone if you start looking at pictures of dogs for a bit too long, but.

Radim: So this is an interesting thing about the algorithm because if you're a creative, if you're a creator, you want the algorithm to work for you and present your work to other people. Whereas what you, Monica, quite beautifully described, and I do this with Spotify my Discover Weekly is, highly curated to my taste 'cause I'm very careful about what I save.

 it's, a bit of a musical salad because it's I'm listening to the same thing in a different colors, different tones and if that makes sense. But when it comes to the visual algorithm, especially on Instagram, obviously you get people who celebrate it and people who hate it because you wanna be seen, but maybe like people are not finding you ' cause they're not looking for you at that time because they haven't potentially made as much effort as you have made.

Because you say it works for you because you really careful you, mold it in a way how you want it to behave. there's that juxtaposition because we see algorithm as a negative word. No one's ever said Hey, algorithms are here. This is great because it's technically a decision made by something else.

 But I wanna go to one point, George, he said, I wasn't confident at the beginning doing this on my own. And I've learned this beautiful sentence just the other day about courage. And it said, courage is not a solo sport. It takes a village for people to be courageous. Because it's like when we do something on our own, we don't have that validation.

We don't know exactly. Especially if you're holding yourself into the unknown, you're like, what's happening? What am I doing? I like it that you had Malika who's the behemoth of illustration like, Hey I can, validate it for you, even though what you're doing is obviously, it's exceptionally amazing.

So it's interesting to hear that, we have these different levels of confidence or anxieties and insecurities. Even when it comes to our, own work or even just Instagram feeds. Just is this worthy? Is it good enough? Because ultimately what I'm getting from this is the point of care of creating something for people that get value out of this.

 And I'm glad you didn't give into your trendy, hipster friends just to put you off.

George: going back to how we find things. I would say also that there is quite a big stalking element to it as well. So it is not yes, the explore feed does give us some stuff, but I think to also curate that, and I know you do this too, Malika, you end up like going first, like designer, oh, who are they following and who are then they following and then you just go into that, this weird wormhole of literally going through people's followers to try and find interesting things.

So that's still quite an intense mining situation. And then we inject that. Obviously you'll follow, you start following these like people that are quite outside your network and that kind of refreshes the explore thing for a bit. But after a while cause it just starts repeating itself.

Then you have to go out again and give it like fresh. Inspiration to then go, okay, here's a new set of parameters of things I'm interested in. Now go off and find me those things. So you do have to really feed the algorithm, it's, an ongoing

thing. 

Malika: It is exhausting and you feel a little bit like a hamster in a wheel. That's how I feel as well about it. But, and it is more about going down, as George was saying, going down kind of rabbit holes and then doing little jumps left and right, and then you enter in that hole and then you get out another door and then you find someone else who is doing kites in Japan and he's fourth generation craft person.

 And then you start looking into that person and translating their website and it's, so much work. But, at the same time I think we all see the same things. And that, for me, that's an issue with Instagram today. It's if, there is a cool product coming out, you're gonna see it on 50 different feeds literally in the space of a week.

 this comes down with marketing budgets. A lot of people are investing a lot of money in getting this seen. And I think for us it's like we used to post these things as well because sometimes they were great. But very quickly we also realized that people were following us and sticking around because we were outside of trends because we were finding things that maybe someone had never seen before.

 And, at the same time we were not feeding this kind of big brand, doing cool collaboration and under paying the designer, we were suddenly giving more exposure to someone doing something very cool for the past 30 years and getting very little recognition from it at the other corner of the world.

And I think this is when we started really getting a kick out of it as well and, feeling that we were being good actors in that space, which also means we were being very poor. But yeah.

Radim: I have to say it goes to that wor to death phrase from Simon Sinek. People don't care what you do. People care why you do what you do. And when you said look, being you meant, you said exhausting in a way. It, it, shows the, true curiosity of of how far you prepared to go to find information, to celebrate someone, to actually to, appreciate what someone creates rather than going, this is the, this is a press release.

This is gonna be okay for us. This is, I think people can see beyond a bullshit, like the the surface level promotion, especially if it's a , puff of a pr in a week or so. It's, surface. People can see through it, but. what I can see from what you guys have been doing, just like you care about what goes on.

You care where it appears in the feed. You care who's there, and then you go deeper. again I've used this phrase on a podcast for a long time, but phrase is the last mile is hardly ever crowded because not many people are prepared to go that far. And you don't have to tell people about how much you care about a craft because you show it to them.

Like they can see that what you're creating and what makes you happy, what makes you feel something. It's presented on this and know, and that was I'm, sure one of the reasons why it's grown so, far and so fast now 

Malika: and I think that there is something also that I think is important to say is like. for example, Instagram has changed a lot. Social media have changed a lot over the past decade, and I know that, for example, for my illustration career, social media did a lot for me. A lot of people reshared my work.

That's how I became who I am. A lot of magazines reshared my work the likes of Creative Review. It's nice that all this, back then you could send a cool project to a magazine and they would literally make a full blown article about you. Today that does not exist anymore. Everything is commodified.

Nothing is for free anymore. And social media the feeds are also like this. Everything is sponsored. and that's also something we agreed on very early on with George. we don't wanna be these guys. maybe we can give exposure to these people and we don't need, we don't even tell them we're gonna post them.

We just post them. Which is a little bit illegal. But then my, thing was always like if they want us to take it down, we'll take it down. But why would they, it's like we're literally celebrating them in a feed. And so I think in a way it's also a little bit about, for me, about giving back and, proving maybe it's a bit of a lost battle, but proving that you can still be generous in this space and that creatives should be more generous with each other.

Radim: We, decided very early on that we were not gonna do sponsored post, for example, so that if a brand contacted us, like we were not gonna post on the feed we were not gonna use our feed in that way. So that was something that was very clear early on, but also meant that we were never gonna make money that way.

Malika: And, what started at the beginning as something that was taking. an hour a day or something slowly. Grew into something I think it's taking me like four or five hours a day now, so it's a bit insane. I have to admit that I did put my illustration career a little bit on hold for the past year.

I did, I had to, it's like at some point I couldn't do everything, but I was lucky enough that I had a very good first decade of work. I'm lucky that I can take fewer projects and I still can live. And, for me, that was a necessary sacrifice. But also after, I think it was after four years, we started talking with George about how do we somehow make this viable?

Because this is insane. There is a moment where it's just becoming a bit mad. And so that's when we started to think about making a shop. Almost like a curated concept store. We asked our audience, we did a survey. We, really bounced around a lot of ideas, like doing an archive of all our curation, like maybe doing subscription.

 We really talked about all these options and, landed on this idea of a shop. And also we were lucky enough last year to, to get commissioned by an auction house in Paris to curate for them. So for us, even though we were sharing that on the feed, the fact we accepted, we said yes, and there was a budget for it.

 We said yes because we had complete carte blanche and it was about curating. So we didn't feel it was someone buying our audience to push a product. They were literally not telling us what to put. We were selecting seven objects a month. And we did that for six months, I think. It was really amazing and I think without Francois and Drew that that client, we could never have built a shop.

So we used that budget to literally build the whole and get it kicking off. So we didn't take external investment. We paid ourself very, little last year from that. So this is like a drop in the ocean. And now we are trying this format where we have a curated bazaar, we partner with brands.

It's completely free for them to join, and when they sell something through us, we get a commission. So we tried also, we really wanted to have a model that was fair on both sides. It's not sustainable yet, so we'll see. But that's, our best attempt of making it a little bit viable and allowing us to continue.

George: I just wanted to add we don't do the classic sponsored posts, like as in they send us some pictures and we just post those. But we have done like almost like more collaborations. If we really like a product, then we'll create some content for them, and that has been really fun as well.

However, I think even. I guess our whole thing with this feed and the way that we're going about the shop and how do we monetize it, is very much about experimentation. See which one works, what works with the audience. So we have done maybe slightly more classic sponsored posts in the past where, and this is why we decided they don't work, because if the product isn't something that the audience would really, resonate with, then it just doesn't work.

However, when we get to do our own take on it, then it does better. The drew our stuff has been amazing because it's what we do already. We're just, instead of curating things that we find, we get to go into this crazy antiques world and, find incredible old masters I don't know, we were never allowed to show Picasso paintings, but they were there all the way to four nati cap bins, for example.

And it was like a such different, place for us to go on personally as well. I've never really delved into the world of antiques before. Super interesting. So I guess it's, now we're really interested in collaborations, meeting new partners that would like to try something else, not your classic sponsored post, if that makes

Malika: Yeah, and let us curate. I think curation for us is, the backbone of this is you have to let us dig and choose. And build a story around it. And also what we did is we started a newsletter, which in a way it's old school but, I think that also came at a moment where that's when we had the idea for the shop.

And that's also when we had this feeling of we don't know where Meta is going. We don't know where Instagram is going. We need to start having a presence outside not be dependent on these big companies. And, that's when we, start doing newsletters interviewing people and having our quirky tone.

And so we've got this really fun interview now. We've got a new format where we dive into the story of an object from like first sketches and everything. And the brilliant thing is like the newsletter is going slowly because we're not pushing it like like crazy. And also we don't have anything to offer really apart from content.

We don't have big discounts or things like this, but yeah, I think we're like on 7,000 people now. And, what's great is that the response is amazing. So literally we have like more than 70% open rate on each issue. And I know that's like a little bit mad. But I think it's also, in a way, it's like a continuation of the feed.

It's, a space where we can have our tone, we can highlight products that are a little bit mad. I don't know. And it's, I think it's interesting. So we're trying to develop other editorial formats.

Radim: Malika, I can tell you that there's a lot of marketeers running a newsletter who be killed for 70% open rate.

Malika: I know 

This this is where the true metric really lies, because the number of subscribers doesn't really matter. It's like how many people actually open it. Yeah, that's the true metric.

Radim: Again, it just goes back to why you do this and how much you care because, George, am I right that this project also led you to developing your own product that you've created?

George: maybe, yeah, I guess it's the inspiration behind it. I think when COVID hit, I have a lot of friends already that are illustrators or they're makers and I don't know if any, you remember, there was like this boom of everyone like, okay, let's just make something ourselves.

 I'm obviously from a design background, I always have to work with someone else's brief, someone else's product, and I just thought, oh, that'd be quite fun to make something myself and try and be one of those brands. I actually remember. Talking to you, Malika, I made like a little deck of all the ideas that I had was thinking about at the time and said, okay, as a business person, which one of these is actually going to make any kind of money?

 And she chose the umbrellas. I think that's the other thing that the feed is really amazing for is taking us on slightly different tangents. I would've never done the Birmingham talk before doing that feed, before doing it Malik, she literally bullied me into doing that talk.

 I would've never really considered doing this podcast or even potentially creating my own version of interviews. I didn't really see myself in that way. And I think now it's okay. We have a following where we are curators, where people are interested in the kind of things that we're interested in.

That's just a whole other space for me. And, Malika, I'm sure the same for you too. even the idea, like something else that we're talking to people about is like creatively collaborating with people's products. Coming together in terms of in our own artistic way rather than just curating.

So there's a lot of different avenues that we can go down, which is super exciting.

Radim: I discovered your world, and I love it says, bringing joy to bad weather because I worked with Timo Kilda on my last two, on my last two books . Timo is amazing, and I think soon after we released these two books I saw the umbrella that you guys did together. I was like, oh, this is everything about Temo, right?

Do yellow color happiness. It's just, yeah, it was one of these things that I didn't know it was your project at that time, and later joined the dots and I was That makes so much sense because your, statement bringing joy to a bad weather, it's bringing joy through everything that you do to any kind of situation.

 what I like about you that you say I wouldn't do this because I needed Malika to push me into doing things because you got very modest generosity in a way of okay I'm doing this because I care, but let's not make it about me. That makes

sense. 

George: I think we're as a couple now we're gonna psychoanalyze ourselves. Monique has obviously come from incredible success. She's an very, successful creative and I've come from a slightly different world where I can't remember what it's called, like the portfolio career. I've tried this, maybe it hasn't worked out.

I've tried. That hasn't worked out, so I haven't, I am definitely a creative that's come from a background of more anxiety or uncertainty of what it's like to be a major success. And so I think, yeah, it is been amazing to partner with someone that is just come on, like what's the matter with you?

Just do it. And I think I used to be like that maybe in my twenties as I'm older needing more security, I've gotten a bit more of the, kind of fear to be brave. And I think when you do it as a two it definitely helps because one of you can then go no, it's great. Come on, let's keep going.

And there is feels like you're in it together when you have your own demons. I think I have more demons than Malika for sure. 

Malika: that's also why we get along so well. we have we have a lot in common and then we are very different. And in a way I've always felt that it's, much harder for people who are very pre-disciplinary and want to touch, like you've got this breed of people like George who want to touch everything, and when they do something, then they want to move on to something else and, so they keep trying techniques and mediums and formats.

 So it's, amazing. Creatively, commercially it's, very difficult. for example we all know that it has as frustrating as it is for some people being a successful illustrator also means having a very, strong recognizable style. And how do you, not get bored by yourself.

So I think there is a thing when my nature is, I'm a compulsive addictive, I have an addictive personality, and I'm someone who is gonna do the same thing for 10 years and still find joy in it. But if that's not your nature, then that's hell, that situation is hell for me. It's I love pushing something by little incremental pivots.

And I remember we had that conversation with George and that's when it, I think it really defines us. it's such a, a brilliant definition of who we are. George wants to do. Things that are innovative and new. I want to make this thing that already exists perfect or better. And I think these are two, two ways of being creative and approaching My entire work is playing with cliches, with almost images you have in your subconscious the collective mind, but making them so striking that you feel like you're seeing them for the first time. My work, my illustration work is not innovative. It's trying to reach that perfection.

How perfect is that line?

Radim: It is beautifully said. yeah, because I remember scenes one of your talks ages ago where. As a successful illustrative have a very distinctive style. You find yourself a little bit, caged in. Some, people can't stomach it. Because I remember, I think you said the number of times the people asked me to do something different to what I do, it was maybe three or four times.

Because, ' cause you create, the thing that makes money and is, very successful. But then that is, that is, your identity. That is your craft. That is your style. And people come to you because that's, they were Malika. But what I love what you said is that you find you're trying to make it perfect.

You're trying to find perfection in it. You never find that end point to it because I have personally had so many incarnation of my career because I always find the end point. I was like, this was 10 years of this. Let's do something else. This is 10 years of that. Let's do something else. You overlap these things and you got a bit curious, takes you, because would you say in your case that doing this thing with George gave you a bit of a catalyst to a.

Not run out or burnout what you do, even though you know you might one day find a perfection in what you do in your illustration style, but did you find that working with George gave you extra energy and like a view on, on, on creativity and expression of what you can do for the benefit of others?

Malika: I think the, biggest thing I learned as well is that the same as my work, my taste I think was much more confined and was much more in line with my work when we started this project. So I was curating very graphic, very geometric color, blocking stripes, all the things that you would expect for me to curate.

And I think curating with George and seeing her post this absolutely bonkers thing sometimes was in a way opened me up as well. And I think the,

I embraced the whole spectrum of my own taste. And George was already doing that and in a way that's also when the account really took off.

It's also when we were really like, we all have guilty pleasures. I don't know why I find this beautiful, but it is, but it's not beautiful in the sense that some people might say, Ooh, that's on the line. We call it the line. Actually, did we cross the line on this? And, I think this is what really made it, in a way, made it popular with people.

Because I think we all have guilty pleasures and we all have things that we find utterly beautiful that maybe not everyone would agree. And, this is part of being human.

Radim: I have decoded this since we're doing a couples counseling here. When you see the link between the work, so what you said was, you said about Georgia, she's about annuity innovation, and you said you about a perfection. When I look at the products and the things that you curate and, put together on your store, it's innovation, and perfection.

Because some of these things are classics and they just 10 taken to 11. Some of these things are just that perfection of this. think, I, found this link between the two, because where your worlds have overlapped and met, it's just oh, incredible stuff happened and keeps happening.

That's that's how I see it. Would you agree?

George: Yeah, for sure. That's very nicely put and I think we should change our about on our website now 'cause that makes way more sense.

Malika: Okay, so we're getting had to rewrite our bio and concept,

Radim: Absolutely.

Malika: the manifesto.

Radim: But at first, I have to appreciate your ticket that says everything, everything, everything, everything. I mean, Absolutely love it, because I can, when I read those words I, I hate underworld, cowgirl, everything. Everything.

Malika: Oh really? Yeah. I remember, the day we put that on the website and George she does, she just did it actually today, screenshotting something. I wrote for the newsletter as like lull. It's me. It was me making like a really bad, pun. ticket on the website was the same.

Joel screenshot it and sent it to me and said, and 

somehow we left it because it's funny.

Radim: It's perfect. Absolutely never change it. We can work on your bio, but Never change the ticker. But actually speaking 

of the shop, you guys mentioned obviously having some fund to, to create it. Obviously putting the tech stuff together. So what have you learned about putting an online store together?

Let's talk about technical headaches.

Malika: Oh God. So that was intense. That was an intense year because we funded it, but literally we did it ourself. So we had very little help. My husband helped us a lot with putting the products up. Like we are talking, we launched with like more than 300 products and I think there was like 80 brands.

And we had to contact every single brand individually so So we are not drop shipping for start. We're really leading people to the shops. So we don't hold customer data, we don't take orders. we are almost like linking, we're almost in between women. Like a directory almost of beautiful object, but that meant that we didn't want to use like.

Amazon, of course, obviously or existing affiliate platform because that would mean we would've the same things as anybody else. And anyone can take our curation and put it on their website. So we actually found a model, a plugin, the technical setup to do something privately with all these brands.

So we had to partner in like email video calls, explain the concept with all these 90 brands, and then curate the products, put them up on the shop. It was a good, I would say, eight months of work. So that was really intense. And then we had a developer who helped us. But again, like I had to learn coding, so I ended up learning Shopify liquid coding a little bit just to tweak the little things and, make it so it was a hell of a lot of work and it still is to run it.

But what it means is that at least we, now we have a setup where. It's pretty lean in terms of the monthly cost to keep it up because we do everything ourselves. So it's like a few apps, Shopify store, the right plugin and then we can just put new products up very easily. I,

Radim: When it says everything, everything, when you said 300 products, that thicker is right. It's everything. Everything.

It's like 

Malika: Everything, 

everything. 

George: we were meant to have 30 brands. I remember we had this original brainstorming meeting of okay, we'll start with, we'll start small. Yeah, We'll start small and then it exploded.

Malika: But because again, I think it's also because when you do an outreach to brands and you ask them, do you wanna be on this? And if you sell, you give us 20% commission, blah, blah. It's like we expected that one brand out of 10 would say yes. So we actually started the outreach pretty late, like in July, which is the worst time to do it, end of July.

And we knew we wanted to launch maximum by October. So we really we went wide, but the truth is that 60% of the brands say yes. So we did not expect that. We were like, oh shit. And then once you've proposed you've offered them to join, you can tell them no. Yeah, so the last months were mad and I had to go on one month's break now in the winter because I was just like, I need a rest.

That, that ride since end of July till the launch in October was.

Radim: So would you say that it sounds insane, but again, it shows the love and care that you guys put into it. But would you say that everything that you've put into work on curating the feed on Instagram help you to pre-select the brands, actually go after the products that you loved already? Or did you search for new products?

Because I feel like there was quite a lot on your feed already.

George: Yeah, I think it started a lot with everyone. A lot of people that we already knew about, right? And then I think it's recently we've started, like maybe this year we've started looking at new brands. I think the thing we are learning about the most is what is selling. what kind of things, what price point and where in the world, because that's the other problem, not problem, but the thing that we have, it's a global directory.

 So sadly in the uk we're bound by eu. And also the American tariffs like got so many restrictions of who actually UK brands can sell to. And the same for anyone selling in Europe. Trying to, oh no, specifically like in Asia, trying to sell to America. That's a whole problem as well. So it was like making sure that we had a good spread for our audience.

Our audience is, correct me if I'm wrong, Malika one third, US one third Europe, and then

Malika: yeah, 50%. Europe. If we, I always include you guys in

George: Oh, thank you. We're still there. Thank you.

Malika: there.

George: Us 50% Europe and then the rest of the world. So we had to make sure that people in the US had something to buy. People in Europe had something to buy. And then obviously like we've got really lovely like people, customers in Japan and Australia, but they were smaller.

 So it's all, again, things that we're learning. I know Malik is so into the analytics. I love it. Like again, making it perfect so she knows where everyone's clicking and what people are clicking on, and I think it's just constantly trying to optimize this thing. 

Malika: But it's hard. we have to admit it's a it's a very tough financial model. It always was. I knew that from the start, affiliates linking is very tough. And the truth is that we don't know if it's gonna work. We can only try our best. The only thing I would say that anyone lending on the shop loves it.

Like we, all we got was compliments, was like, oh my God. What is that crazy selection. But there is also, we didn't want to limit ourselves to start with. So that's also why we are like kids stuff. And then we also have like outliers. We've got dildos and bonds. it's a, statement.

We needed dildos on that shop and then we also have a lot of homeware then art we've got price point going from 10 pounds to 10,000. So we almost went like a little bit nuts on the launch. But I always find in general that it's better to go with everything. And then you refine. And it might be a case that we, at some point we realize actually we are more of a homeware concept store.

And as much we would love to keep all of that in. But also we need to see what works and we, not to confuse people too much, and I think also what's, hard with what we curate is that every piece is so special. How do you choose? It's literally, if you put a really bold orange thing in the middle of gray stuff, everyone will go buy that orange thing.

Now, if everything is gorgeous and everything is intense, how do you choose? And I think people love looking at our store. But I think we can definitely, improve on the, buying. It's and we want to do well by our brands. But the great thing is that because it's risk free for them they don't have anything to lose.

Radim: this is what I wanted to say. Because when you think about when, if you follow a fashion brand or any, and a retail brand, like their, website changes three times a year. There's, it's a constant evolution of understanding of the eye tracking user experience.

Like literally like what, where, how, because as you described, like like if something's orange in the middle of gray, yeah, of course people will go there. ' cause that leads me to a question Malika, like since you are over the analytics and understanding. Because you guys have a potentially very clear idea of what sells in a vast number of products.

Do you get approached for consultancy data or questions about product development from these brands? 

George: we had actually a brainstorming session with a good friend of ours who was trying to help us what our future is, and when we did the survey. That did come up. Remember it is like Trend forecasting, Yeah, there's lots of different avenue. This is again where I'm gonna get into trouble and get unstop.

'cause yeah, I like the new thing. So I try not to think about it, just concentrate on the shop, be a bit more blinked,

Radim: Because when you think about innovation and perfection, like so many ideas, so many people create products because they believe in them, because they, care. And the difference between being successful or not, sometimes it's patients, sometimes it's algorithms.

Sometimes there's the trend. Sometimes if we were to only create, because it would work, we will create very few things and they will look, oh shit, because there'll be just made for the mass market. But the quirky things, the amazing things products filled with soul is sometimes you can potentially help someone's career by just saying, Hey, you just need this, or this works.

That works. That's the size. That's the thing because 

 I think with your insights, it potentially can help.

because you've created this, amazing platform where you know, their passion

meets the

reality. 

Malika: that's, for me, that's one of my biggest, contradiction I struggle with that as well because I think the people who need our help the most can't pay us. And, for me that's I think sometimes I really wish I won the lottery or I inherited millions from a long lost on call from somewhere.

And could focus on doing this and helping the people who really need it the craft people. And I think what we're very good at is how to, present a product visually tell the story behind it, like how all this content as well. And, I almost think that it's a tough moment for retail. It's a tough moment for makers. You have all these people who were selling incredibly well through Instagram and now nothing is coming their way because the algorithm cut it and for example, one thing I saw that was nuts, it's when we started posting in December, there was no way to reach our audience.

No way. Because the landscape was filled with ads. So literally we, everything we did was organic. So we rely on Yeah, that explore feed the algorithm pushing us. And literally it's like the algorithm each pushing us when it's a low moment for ads and brands are not investing that much. As soon as brands are putting the money in, we disappear.

We go behind the curtain and no one shows what we have to offer. And that's what I'm struggling with. we live in a world where money wins and the more investment wins. And our biggest challenge is gonna be how can we make. These smaller people win who do amazing things and still win ourselves, gonna be very difficult.

Radim: when you say the people who need our help potentially, and the people who can afford us, I'm gonna badly paraphrase Debbie Millman who said, money is never about money. When you realize there's a help what you guys potentially can do or Or when you put yourself in a position of a creative, and I know it from writing books and try to solve people's problems because you're not meant to do, people will only admit when they've got problem, when it clicks, when you realize, you know what? I've tried every single way of taking my own path, and some people are taking shortcuts and some people are getting help to get there.

The penny drops at some point. Sometimes the penny drops very late, but it drops at, some point in the future it does because we are here to help each other to thrive. We, mostly survive or we are here to survive and thrive. And I think to be able to look into what can make business successful, you've started your illustration career by you wanna be in yourself, but obviously you also validated that there's a space in the market for someone there's this, you not creating something that somebody else. So I think that generosity that you put into everything that you do, I think gonna unlock some people's amazing futures and successes.

Because as I said, as we said for all this conversation, you do it from the point of care, from the point of curiosity. And you can't, never fake this. Then this is the beautiful part because why would you spend year building a baar? Why would you spend years doing this?

Because you care, because it's there. So when people try to sometimes when people are trying to introduce themselves and this is what I do and this is why I do it. You don't always believe them. Whereas people can open your feet, open your store and go yeah, that makes perfect sense.

Malika: what's interesting as well is I remember when we were doing the website with George, we talked about do we put a manifesto? Do we talk about why we do what we do? And. then we decided not to, we shouldn't be saying anything 

 we, both felt what we are about is there, if someone wants to look, it's very obvious. It's in the tone, it's in the way we talk about people. and, I think, yeah, no one in, the end it was a needed, it was a needed to, and maybe one day we will explain it.

But I always find it more interesting to explain it on podcasts or interviews or, but to not brag about things because I think a lot, everyone brags a lot a lot of it is a lot of bullshit. 

Radim: That was exactly one of the reasons why I wanted to have you guys on the podcast after seeing your talk, beautifully eloquently, describing what you do with so much passion. I was let's, keep, let's bring it to more people that reason why you do it. But before I let you go where do you see the not so distant future of what you guys do?

I know is there do, would you see anything in the way of trends in the way of your work? Yeah. can we find out?

George: I think we both have a desire to explore the editorial side of things at the immediate future. Malik has already mentioned, the evolution of the newsletter, which. Is you're being quite modest by the way, about the newsletter. I think 7,000 is quite a lot considering you've not been doing it for crazy long time.

But yeah, again, like expanding on when you have a post, it's so visual most people don't really read the caption sometimes. What I do love about Post is that you can have a bit more of a dialogue with the audience themselves. So I think expanding a bit more of that kind of interaction is where we're going right now.

 more with the brands, I would like to say, like individuals that are behind these brands, behind the stories of what makes them tick. Also the audience themselves. again, doing things like this podcast, doing the newsletter, doing more interviews, longer formats, just to see it almost feels like the community is the thing. And I know a lot of brands talk about our community, but we have quite an engaged one, so we just wanna learn more about them and have that more like, 'cause everyone seems very positive at the moment on our feed and it's nice to engage with them and see like, why did they come and what are they into, not just ourselves.

Sorry, I'm rambling there.

Malika: and potentially maybe we are already talking about doing some exclusive products maybe some limited edition runs with some of our favorite makers and brands. I think we're taking it one month at a time and trying to not run five things at once.

Also, because it's only three of us with Vladi. But I think we'll go where it takes us and where it makes the most sense. And I think the goal is to not be forced into something a space we don't wanna be in. So I think so many things that are possible yeah.

Popups, curating for brands consulting. I think we could even be social media consultants today. But all these things, it's organic. I think we'll take any opportunities as they come. But trying to stay very strong to our ethos and not forget why we started it and why we're doing it.

Radim: You just summarized it beautifully. We'll go where it takes us. I wrote it on a piece of paper because the thing is, you can have a strategy, you can have plans, but if you got values and a willingness to, pursue them and explore them, that aids any business plan for breakfast.

So I'm, so happy we got, to make this happen and to recreate almost your talk and and yeah, celebrate what you guys do because it's incredible. I can't wait to see what happens next. So thank you for being here.

George: Thank 

Malika: Thank you so much for inviting us.