A short bonus episode showcasing a few stand out moments from this weeks guest interview with Illana & Katie (Goodtype) 

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[00:00:00] Hey, welcome to the 12 bonus episode of the Daring Creativity Podcast. As you may know, this is where I revisit the interview you published early in a week, provided me with the opportunity to zoom in on a few standout moments for extra value and meaning. I'll take time to digest the goodness my guests share with me every single week.

And this week I was chatting with Katie and Ilana from Goodtype. It was an easy, free flowing conversation about a multifaceted business in education, community art, licensing, and creative work as their studio. As you know, I love people who do complicated stuff as much as I like to explore. So I didn't hold back and I asked all the questions about their business.

 in this bonus episode, I will pick out four standout moments from our conversation and we'll start with a quote about achievement orientated goals.

Sometimes that's at the expense of other, doing other things with our time, taking on sponsorships, taking [00:01:00] on, creating more courses, things like that could technically create, a larger financial impact.

Katie: So yeah, that's something that we're figuring out how our business looks with this new model, but with our mental health and our happiness at the center,

Ilana: I think that's,the older I get, the less I'm willing to sprint towards a hill that I know when I get to the top of, I'm just gonna look around and be like, well, now what? 

 This quote encapsulates a profound shift in how creative professionals approach ambition and success metrics. articulating what many entrepreneurs experience. By rarely voice is the hollowness of achievement orientated goals that like intrinsic meaning her metaphor of sprinting towards a hill perfectly captures a breathless urgency 

 that pervades modern creative careers. A constant push towards metrics, follow account revenue targets, and industry recognition. [00:02:00] the visual of reaching the summit only to feel empty reveals the fundamental flaw in externally driven motivation.

So instead of celebrating the grind for its own sake, for intention goal setting that considers the emotional and psychological aftermath of achievement. Her insight suggests that maturity in business means questioning, not just, can I achieve this, but will achieve in this actually fulfill me.

 The second quote was the original opening line from the episode.

I think I used to think compatibility in a partnership would look like sameness and agreeing all the time. And what I've discovered. In trials and errors with other partnerships versus this one is that this one actually works better because we're such a yin and yang with our strengths and weaknesses.

Katie: We really fill in the gaps that the other one has and hold up the other person's, strengths [00:03:00] and allow them to step into those. And it's taken time to find out where those things were and to really get to know each other and go through a lot of projects and, a lot of failures too, 

Katie's observation challenge is one of the most persistent myths in collaborative relationships that harmony equals agreement. This insight has profound implications for how creative professionals approach partnerships hiring and team building. 

The conventional wisdom suggests surrounding yourself with a like-minded people who share your vision and working style. Katie's experience reveals this approach actually creates weakness rather than strength. When partners have identical skillset and perspectives, they create eco chambers and miss crucial blind spots.

 She describes the Yan Yang concept. She describes, suggested a productive tension and complementary differences drive innovation and problem solving. 

In that [00:04:00] case, kt, strategic planning orientated approach balances Ilana's Action First, relationship building strength. Neither approach is superior, but together they create a more robust business capability.

 Now let's cross over to Ilana for the next standout moment.

I think that's one of the things about graphic design is that people, and I, I think I was ignorant to this one too, is like. You're not just making things look pretty, but like you, you need to have the strategy and the marketing. And I think that's usually what separates good from great is that if you're willing to just make it look good, then that's wonderful.

Ilana: But that's almost production, production is making it work and making sure like things are in where they're supposed to be. But the strategy and the messaging is a really huge piece of it. And probably not a piece that gets emphasized enough in any training for graphic design. But I think that's where the like true magic happens is when the like messaging and just like conceptual things happen.[00:05:00] 

In this third standout moment, we talk about blind spots again.Ilana identifies why many talented designers struggle to build sustainable careers despite strong aesthetic skills.

The phrase making things look pretty isn't dismissive of visual design. It's pointing to the limitation of viewing design as purely decorative rather than strategic. Many creative professionals excel at the craft elements, be it typography, color theory, composition, but struggle with the business context that give their work meaning and impact.

 the distinction between good and great that Ilana draws isn't about technical skills. It's about understanding how design functions as communication and persuasion. Great designers don't just execute visual solutions. They understand audience psychology, business objectives, and market positioning.

They can articulate why their choices serve the [00:06:00] client's goals beyond aesthetics preference.

The last stand I moment, we go back to Katie, talk about building business relationships.

Katie: I think Ilana's really great at the relationship piece, which is arguably the most important piece, of finding work. Everything is based on relationships and, oh, I know this cousin of this lady that I met at the 

Ilana: I, I I literally just did that.

Katie: Is the actual queen of that.

And she, she, and you do that just by being a good fun person, like a good kind hearted person who like listens to other people and engages. And I think, that's, those are skills that aren't emphasized very much in typical graphic design education. but they have served us the best out of any skills.

Like it's more important to have that than to have the best design skills in the world. if I had to pick between which one of those I [00:07:00] wanted to crank to a hundred, I would crank the relationship skills for sure. 

And this stand moment is very much following on from the previous quote from Ilana, 

 Katie talks about a belief that the best work automatically rises to the top. But this quote matters because it reveals how business actually works versus how creative professionals are taught or think about how it should work. The creative education system heavily emphasizes technical skill development, be it software proficiency, design principles, portfolio quality.

But Katie's experience running a successful business revealed that relationship skills, which is listening. Empathy, communication, trust building are the true differentiators in professional success. This isn't about networking in the transactional sense of collecting contacts. Katie is describing the ability to genuinely connect with people, understand their needs, and [00:08:00] build mutual trust.

these skills determine whether clients choose you, refer others to you, or continue working with you over time. This quote, challenges the introversion stereotype often associated with creative work while making art might be solitary. Building a creative business is inherently social.

Katie's insight suggests that shy or social anxious creators might benefit from more developing and interpersonal skills than perfecting their craft. This perspective also democratizes creative entrepreneurship If relationships matter more than royal talent, then success becomes more accessible to those willing to invest in human connections rather than being limited to those with exceptional natural ability.

If you haven't checked out my conversation with Katie and Ilana, please do so. It's a real, fun, lighthearted conversation about things that really matter, and 

I really appreciate the transparency and honesty about how they run their business. and if you haven't done [00:09:00] so, do check out their conference, their online festival, which is launching very soon.

And you can check out a conference by clicking the link in the show notes. Thank you for joining me on this bonus episode, and I'll see you on the next one.