"I think mindset is probably the biggest learning curve and the biggest part of running your business. I would put any kind of investment of time or energy there before anything else."

Imogen Partridge is a watercolor illustrator who recently transitioned from a career in interior design to full-time freelance artistry. She specializes in detailed architectural illustrations, maps, and bespoke commissions. Imogen discusses her journey into freelancing, the challenges of balancing creativity with business, and her approach to goal-setting and personal development. She also shares insights on running watercolor workshops and building a community through social media.

Key Takeaways:

• Transitioning to freelance: Imogen took a gradual approach, building her illustration business on the side for six years before going full-time.
• Diversifying income streams: She balances private commissions, business clients, and watercolor workshops to create a sustainable business model.
• Community building: Imogen emphasizes the importance of connecting with other creatives and clients through social media and in-person workshops.
• Client relationships: She values the emotional connection clients have with her work, especially for personal commissions like house portraits.
• Business development: Imogen invests time in learning about the business side of her craft through podcasts, courses, and goal-setting retreats.
• Time management: As a parent of two young children, she works three full days a week and manages her projects with longer lead times.
• Mindset and personal growth: She recognizes the importance of continuous learning and working on her mindset to overcome challenges in her business.
• Marketing strategies: Imogen uses a combination of social media, personal outreach, and referrals to attract new clients.
• Workshop facilitation: She runs intimate watercolor workshops, focusing on creating an inspiring and relaxed environment for participants.
• Financial empowerment: One of her current goals is to improve her financial literacy and confidence in managing the financial aspects of her business.

Daring Creativity. Podcast with Radim Malinic

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[00:02:10] 

Radim Malinic: Hi Imogen, it's nice to have you on my show. Good morning. How are you today?

Imogen Partridge: I'm good. Thanks for having me. How are you?

Radim Malinic: I'm good. I'm good. I'm [00:02:20] happy to have you on because even though I sort of champion in the show notes, look, we've got the brightest minds and like people might still expect really established people on the podcast, but I wanted to sort ofbalance it [00:02:30] out with someone like yourself.

Because you're at the beginning of your journey. Obviously you've been creative, you know,earning from your creativity for a while, but I really want to talk about what's it like when you [00:02:40] start, pitfalls, what's the scares, what's the, anxiousness, that kind of stuff and share it with people.

Because obviously I've got memories, which I've put in my book and I know there were [00:02:50] slightly, time box for a different gender, not generation, but different decade. But I want to, yeah, talk to you. about what's it like go freelance in 2024? So tell us a bit about your [00:03:00] story.

How'd you get to this moment? 

Imogen Partridge: I'm a watercolor illustrator, and I've been doing that on the side of my, day job for about six years, really slowly kind of building it [00:03:10] up.

Imogen Partridge: and only in the last couple of years, a bit more intentionally thinking I'm actually going to leave my job. So my day job was an interior designer. I've done that for about 12 years. and I [00:03:20] loved it for a while and then sort offound that the illustration was more of what I preferred. and I think. Yeah, so this year I, in the middle of [00:03:30] January, I left my day job and now this is what I do. and it's really exciting. It's kind of,so I've spent the last year knowing that's what I [00:03:40] was planning to do. So I kind ofwas intentionally building up to that point. but obviously still terrifying.

but also really exciting. So 

yeah, 

it's a [00:03:50] I think.

Radim Malinic: I don't think you can replicate a feeling of going freelance because you feel every single emotion. You're like, 

freedom! I always try to think of [00:04:00] that's a meme and I get it, is it Russell Crowe like, freedom!

You know,with so many E's in the word freedom and you're like, and then you go like,yeah, just until later, but I'm really scared. But, [00:04:10] Tell me, so from interior designers of watercolors. So you said you didn't take it seriously for first few years and then you did. 

how did your love of watercolor turned out to be [00:04:20] something that you now make money from?

Imogen Partridge: Yeah, that's a great question. And it actually started through calligraphy. So I think my husband [00:04:30] bought a calligraphy set for his mum and I thought, Oh, that sounds like something I would like. So I bought one for myself and started doing it and really enjoyed it. So did [00:04:40] a workshop and then did an improvers workshop and I started doing that.

So that's how I got started. I set up a kind of Instagram account for a of accountability to just [00:04:50] keep myself practicing because it was something I really enjoyed, but I wanted to make sure that I was dedicating time to practicing. And then from there, I started doing a bit of illustration as well.

[00:05:00] So a bit of the watercolor, for, I did a wedding present for my brother when he got married. I did their wedding venue. And then very slowly people started to get in touch. it's the classic [00:05:10] kind of tale of. friends and family at first, and then people who I didn't know started to get in touch. and I started do more and more, and I did quite a lot in weddings and things like that, and quite a lot of it [00:05:20] was the calligraphy. And then the illustration was feeding in here and there. But I realized quite quickly that it was the illustration that I loved and that actually, I think probably people [00:05:30] were more drawn to as a result. so yeah, and then I think it just carried on moving from there. and it got to a point where I thought actually there was a time where I was a bit scared that if [00:05:40] I was earning a living from it, I wouldn't enjoy it. But there was a point where I realized that I really love learning about the business side of it as well, and I could really [00:05:50] see myself doing it, and so I just decided it was a good thing to give it a try.

Radim Malinic: think we have to come back to this answer in about five years time when you said I was scared if I was only living [00:06:00] from it I wouldn't enjoy it as much

because the business does sometimes take over the whole operation and I think it was Derek Sivers in his book called Hell Yes or No it was like saying [00:06:10] that people ask him about What would you suggest if, because I want to be an artist, like everyone thinks that artists have a really lovely lives, you

not knowing that, how, [00:06:20] scared we are and

how much, how little time we go back.

He said, 

His answer was like, get a really well paid job and do the art for two hours in a day. Like just, don't worry about stuff and do that. Because [00:06:30] if you're an artist, you're creative for two hours a day and you spend the eight hours a day making sure that you can be creative for two hours a day.

So I think that, that business side of things, how did you find it? [00:06:40] Was it, did you find it natural or did you feel like, you know what, this is the unnecessary evil that I have to conquer? 

Imogen Partridge: I don't think I necessarily found it natural, but I found it really interesting to learn. [00:06:50] And so there was a time, there was a period of time during COVID and I just had my first child and I was due back to work and I ended up being [00:07:00] on furlough for a while. And so I used that time to do quite a lot of sort of courses and learning and a bit reinvest some of the money that I had, in [00:07:10] learning more about the business side of things.

And it was very much initially listening to podcasts and getting free advice. But then when I actually put some money into it and did a course, I learned so much from [00:07:20] that. And then I've done a few other things since then, and I really enjoy it.

I I can really understand how people have businesses in different areas, helping other people run their [00:07:30] business because it's so interesting. And I'm glad I don't dislike it. 'cause I know a lot of creatives do find it a necessary evil, But I do feel like I'd like more time for everything that I do, [00:07:40] which I'm sure you can relate to.

But yeah, I

think it's, it comes hand in hand and I feel like it maybe makes things more interesting because you've got, you are not necessarily [00:07:50] creating all the time. So it's the combination that kind of keeps you on your toes maybe.

Radim Malinic: I think, there's a misconception that you think that you should be creative or like,I think some people believe that they have to be [00:08:00] creative eight hours a day because that's what they've chosen to do. What do you mean? Like,what does the invoice look like? what am I supposed to do? 

But I think when you think about it, 

Everyone is a [00:08:10] businessman.

I mean, it was Ozzy Osbourne who once said Oh, if you're booking your own gigs, you're a businessman. I'm a musician. I just make music, but I would beg to differ, because, everyone in some way, if you want to [00:08:20] be in charge of your destiny and your direction and your story in a way, in your fate, like you actually have to proactively put yourself out there, make your own tracks to make it.

[00:08:30] Because when you work with clients, you're already compromising on your sometimes direction. It's not necessarily creatively, but you're doing something, obviously you're spending your time and being earning your time because [00:08:40] you're asking someone else to tell you what to do.

so the issue when people think, well, I'm a creative, I should be doing what I need to be doing rather than being actually, you know, well,I'm here as a creative service because there's [00:08:50] art and there's a design, you a commercial creativity and commercial art.

So yeah,I'm picking up on the theme. So far, we've only been doing it for a few minutes that [00:09:00] there's eternal curiosity because you bought a calligraphy note, you got a calligraphy set. In fact, you nearly, something nearly stole the calligraphy set that was being a present. And. I'm picking up on, [00:09:10] curiosity and patience, because give me calligraphy set and I'll be like, I don't know what to do with this because I'm just too, digital.

Like I think digital tools have my career to, flourish and [00:09:20] hand wise, you know, I thinkinternal filter just goes off way too quickly. Like,three strokes, don't like it, can't do it, let's do it digitally. We can fix it. Control Z. We're good. was [00:09:30] a daytime job, there's calligraphy, and there's watercolour, and watercolour is something that you live and breathe, and I think when you said people were coming to you saying, illustration was for you, Beth, and it was [00:09:40] picking up, because I believe when we live and breathe what we like to do, universe will know it.

just picks up on it, it knows what you want to do. you said you did your brother's a venue, for likean [00:09:50] illustration of a 

venue. for their wedding. What was the building? what was the venue?

Imogen Partridge: it was, Pembroke Lodge in Richmond Park. And I've actually painted it twice [00:10:00] now because somebody else commissioned me to paint it a couple of years later. which, it was a really lovely one to do. And it's awful because I look back at it now, they have it in their house and I look, they've got a few of my [00:10:10] features in their house, which I've gifted them for various occasions. And I look at them and I think they're awful. It's,that thing, isn't it? Of your sort of early work where you look at it and, but [00:10:20] it's all the stepping stones, isn't it? So you can't look at it with your critical eye of how you would do it now because you didn't do it now. So it's an interesting thing I think to look back on.[00:10:30] 

Radim Malinic: I think everyone, sees their first piece of work and goes, what was I thinking? What was I doing? Because you feel really proud when you do the first piece of work. And then you look back 10 years and you're like, Oh, can I take my signature [00:10:40] on 

this? 

 your stuff, you said created an account to be accountable.

which again, you know, is a curiosity and patience altogether 

because some people like to fail in their own [00:10:50] privacy or they want to come out when they're ready. And I think that's very good that you've done this because. Sometimes the ignorance is bliss, you know, likeI think I'm more interested in [00:11:00] accountability because sometimes we can be disheartened, you know, likethe three strokes, they didn't like it.

Now let's not do it. so how did you find sort of the use of social media? was it an aid? Is it now becoming, is it still an [00:11:10] aid to your business and to your creativity or is it now overtaken, in a negative way?

I'm 

hoping it doesn't, by the way. 

Imogen Partridge: no, it doesn't. It definitely doesn't. And I think there was a period of time [00:11:20] where I felt like it was a bit of a drag and I did feel it was a chore. And so I looked at it and thought, why does it feel like that? And what, and I think that was [00:11:30] when I was sort ofpaying too much attention to what I was doing with it, or maybe reading too much of the metrics and things like that.

And I think the less I think about it and the more I use it in a way that I enjoy, the more I enjoy it. [00:11:40] And I think that's been something that has. come since the beginning. And something that I quickly realized was that sense of community, and I think it was probably listening to a podcast, [00:11:50] and I realized you could just reach out to people.

you could just send them a DM, and people won't think you're really strange. now, obviously, I do that all the time, but at the [00:12:00] time, I would watch what other people were doing and I would never ask a question or I'd never say anything. And then quite quickly, I realized that you can actually just message people and people are really friendly [00:12:10] and it's really nice.

So early on, I started building a community and I found other people who were in similar startup positions, who I still am, friends with online now, and [00:12:20] they're, running their businesses in different ways and. I think creating that community has been what social media has done, and I think that has been such a [00:12:30] huge benefit for me, both in the journey. of my actual kind of artwork, but in a personal journey and also in terms of kind of the business as a [00:12:40] whole. and I think that's one of the really brilliant things that social media can create.

Radim Malinic: there's something about a cohort the people that you go through the ranks with, like the people when you start, in a sort of similar [00:12:50] starting line, you seem to stick together for quite a while because I have MySpace friends, as to people that work through MySpace are still, in my sort of peripheral view.

And [00:13:00] it's just funny because like even though we've seen each other, let's say once or twice in real life, I've done five or 10 projects like 10 years ago, 15 years ago, you're still in touch because you somehow all been in the [00:13:10] same space, which is really good to hear. let me talk about business and watercolour.

My next question is business plan. because as from my book, [00:13:20] like no one starts with a business plan, but I'm hoping that you may have been a different because When you think of a sort of commercial creativity, I would say from my point of view, obviously I've [00:13:30] changed my career four or five times, based mainly on interest, not necessarily on a trends or, profitability, but I never had a plan.

I was always following what was dragging me in that direction. And I made it [00:13:40] happen with, budding out with projects that I didn't necessarily want to do, but you know, they,paid a mortgage, but I always knew that there was upon the potential of pool of clients that I can work with to make sure they'd be ahead [00:13:50] at least, some turnover to keep us doing it for another year, but with watercolor, and I'm very intrigued because I've got zero, like knowledge of watercolor work and [00:14:00] clients and that kind of stuff.

yeah, business plan was there one to do this. 

Imogen Partridge: It's something like I, don't have a business plan. I don't have a, solid document that is my plan for [00:14:10] the next five years or anything like that, but I've definitely thought about where I can go and what areas I could break into and how that could [00:14:20] manifest itself. I feel like there are slightly different routes and I feel like It's having a level of understanding of what options there are, but also following what you [00:14:30] enjoy. Because there's a lot of things that, for example, if I started, most of my work is bespoke and I sell a small range of kind of prints and cards. And they're [00:14:40] more things that I've created because there's been something I've wanted to paint. So I've painted it and wanted to share that with other people.

And it's nice when it resonates with other people. [00:14:50] But that area of prints and cards and wholesale is a huge,huge area. And, obviously, something I could get into, but it feels like a really [00:15:00] big thing to do or have to commit to doing. so it's definitely, for example, that's on my radar, but it's not necessarily my plan right now.

I don't really like packaging up things. And, [00:15:10] if you were wholesaling, you wouldn't have to do too much of that, because it would be large orders. But, it would take me away from doing more of bespoke work. So it's kind of,being relatively strategic about [00:15:20] how I can make the money that I need to make, but also not doing things because other people are doing them. And so I've got all of these different things on my radar, but I keep [00:15:30] readdressing them whenever I do any kind of like goal setting or looking at what I want to achieve over the next few months or year or whatever. and looking at what's right for me at the moment as [00:15:40] well. because there's quite a lot of things, like last year I quite intentionally started working more with businesses.

So I've got private clients, I've got business clients, and I set up my watercolour [00:15:50] workshops as well early last year. And the point of those three things was so that I've got different things that I'm doing to kind of obviously bring in different,money from different areas, but they also [00:16:00] reach slightly different clients.

And I'm putting myself out there in slightly different ways. As a result, obviously the business work is an element of marketing incorporated when businesses [00:16:10] have my work and share it. and then the watercolor workshops, people often either come to more than one, or they commission me for something after them, or, you know,there's all sorts of [00:16:20] ways that you're reaching out to people in different, spheres, really.

and I think it's the combination of understanding all of those things I'm trying to bring together.

Radim Malinic: got three different points I want to talk about and I'm [00:16:30] going to break it up in three different questions. So,for the novices and for people like in your situation, everyone wants to know how to get a new, how to get clients, new clients. Obviously you said you had your Instagram account was [00:16:40] done, I'm guessing that through your wedding stuff, you got seen by people, friends and family, the snowball effect happened.

But do you have a proactive plan? Likewhat's the, because obviously I know you [00:16:50] run your social channels, but do you actually reach out to potential prospects or how do you market yourself? how do you get new work?

Imogen Partridge: Someone literally asked me this today on Instagram and I haven't [00:17:00] replied to them yet, so it's a great question because it's a really difficult one to pinpoint, I think. I think a lot of my work is from referrals and people [00:17:10] hearing of me through other people, which has been a case of slowly building the business for a while.

So I think that is always a difficult one to pass on to people who are starting because it's time and [00:17:20] patience and that's not easy. I started reaching out to people about maybe October or November last year. I hadn't done that before. And. [00:17:30] I started quite intentionally reaching out to more people knowing I was going to leave my job, and when I left my job, I reached out to a hundred people to say, I'm leaving my job, this is [00:17:40] what I'm doing, and a combination of friends and family, past clients, new, potential clients, things like that. and I've now put it into my sort of weekly plan to [00:17:50] reach out to five potential clients.I mean, that could be on LinkedIn, it could be an email, it could be anything like that. and also to press or PR opportunities. so that I'm [00:18:00] doing small things every week to try and chip away. at this stuff that doesn't necessarily just do itself. And it does a bit, but also I [00:18:10] think you need to feel proactive sometimes to feel on top of things. Because if you're not having inquiries coming in and you're just sitting there waiting, thinking, oh my [00:18:20] goodness, there might be a hundred people about to inquire with you, but you don't know about that and you have to trust the process a little bit.

But if you're doing something yourself, you feel more confident, I [00:18:30] think.

Radim Malinic: There's something really magical about being proactive and because if you sit and wait, it's like almost like your mind starts wandering off like,oh, it's doom and [00:18:40] gloom. Whereas if you actually preoccupy your mind going, you know what, I'm going to keep busy.

 So you're a perfect example of being busy and,actually sending email a day because that's how you [00:18:50] did not have you decide where you're going. Destiny's going in a way like your career's moving. So loving that you're doing definitely in the right way.

Because you want to have a pool of clients or pool of prospects, but they need to hear from [00:19:00] you, let's say every month or two, you know,you could your newsletter, which again, we'll talk about in a second.

Then you've got clients that, every three or four months, or every six months is good for them to know about you. You [00:19:10] know, like,okay, I'm still doing this thing. And then those were like potential ones. Like I'll keep an eye on them. 

And I always believe like sending people compliments 

because [00:19:20] it could be quite sort of doggy 

dog world, the creative industry, but.

Even though we are the horses in the same race, we run our own race for ourselves because, you know,after all it's our mortgage needs to get paid, [00:19:30] but I pay compliments to other people, like other designers, like every day I send emails to someone like, Hey, I loved your work because I know how I felt when I was starting out with someone that says, Hey, I [00:19:40] love your work.

So it's kind of, it's trying to give me back. We can actually cheerlead everyone because you speak to people in financial sectors and recruitment and stuff like my clients and various people and you're like, [00:19:50] There's a bit of a doom and gloom going on, you know, it's,it's not the snowy,peak tops.

And it's just to do that every 

day. I think that's very good.

Imogen Partridge: And I think what you just said there, I think that's exactly that. I [00:20:00] think there is a bit of a doom and gloom, but you don't have to be joining in with that. And I think that's always going to be a sort of rhetoric on whatever level that's going on. But actually, if [00:20:10] you're celebrating other people and you're creating this community where people are positive and you're engaging positively with people, it really starts to create [00:20:20] a, compounding effect and I feel like the community that I am part of and have a bit created is really positive and it lifts me up [00:20:30] and as a result I lift other people up.

But I love doing that because I'm really enthusiastic about seeing other people do well and helping people and in return they do the same. [00:20:40] So it can be a really big thing. Brilliant space and I think it's important to remember that it's not all reaching out directly to clients saying, I would like to work with you.

 It's the [00:20:50] combination of that and also just talking to people normally. Because you, even like you said about reaching out to another designer, they might have something that comes in and think, Oh, I know someone [00:21:00] who'd be perfect for that. That person who said that really nice thing to me that time.

Or, you never know what's going to come from things and you have to just be yourself, I think. And just trust that things will come.

Radim Malinic: I [00:21:10] think there's a, yeah, the outreach where when you pay a compliment, it just changes the surroundings or changes, the topics. That makes sense. [00:21:20] Because as a client, you can have literally an inbox full of people go in. I'm doing this, come and get me.

Whereas if you flip the scene and says, Hey, I really love what you do. Maybe one day we should work [00:21:30] together. It changes the whole narrative. People are like, Oh, right. Okay. Well,you like what I do. And then maybe, I don't know. Thanks for getting in touch with me because I like what you do.

And I think that, there's a key to,mass [00:21:40] marketing, especially when it comes to newsletters, like.should be seen more informational tool rather than when you go for new businesses. it's, your newsletter is, it's good for people to know you, you exist [00:21:50] and there's definitely a level of a conversion, in that element, but it's.

to actually get new clients. So like, how can I, what can I do for you? Because I like what you do, because it's so easy to send like the hundreds of [00:22:00] emails and going, I've sent hundreds of emails, and no one's coming back. What's going on? It's you can send two emails and they can do better for you than the 98 other ones.

 So [00:22:10] you mentioned that you like doing bespoke pieces, 

versus, doing wholesale and stuff, The longer you can be doing this, you might [00:22:20] find yourself, I just, actually, I don't want to do bespoke because maybe that's too much hassle. So when it comes to bespoke border colour, how much of a client process is involved, like to and [00:22:30] fro and amends and that kind of stuff?

Like, how does it work? Obviously, that's interesting to me. So I want know that. 

Imogen Partridge: that's quite interesting because I think it varies a little bit depending on the [00:22:40] clients and their sort of involvement. and I've got two examples in my head of two people that I worked with last year, one who was my favorite person and one who was my least favorite person. both were [00:22:50] relatively, slightly.

Yeah. were businesses, one is a hotel in London, and one is a developer, and one was very, very detached from the situation, and it was very much kind ofmatter of fact, [00:23:00] and she was reporting to her art director, so I wasn't speaking directly to the person who was commenting on the work, and as a result, there was more back and forth, [00:23:10] because they were probably weren't as clear as they could have been on some things in the first place, and in a contract, I will always say, I have allowed for this many changes, I'm [00:23:20] always happy to do more, but it, obviously that will be charged for. So I think it's always a conversation in terms of how much or how little they feed into it. [00:23:30] And sometimes it will be a case of, the other one, They gave me a brilliant brief. We had a really good conversation. I really understood what they needed. And, [00:23:40] We talked it through and then I went away and I did my sketches.

They approved the sketches, I think, a couple of minor tweaks. And then I went and drew it and painted [00:23:50] it and then that was it pretty much. I think there was, sort of two back and forths, but mainly it was a case of just understanding it properly and just going and doing it.

so I [00:24:00] think it's a learning process for me how different people work and different people's understanding of the process. a lot of the time they haven't commissioned someone for something like this [00:24:10] before. so it's partly me learning my process and being able to educate my client clearly with what I will need and what I expect from them. and [00:24:20] partly, yeah, I don't know, I think it's a learning curve for everyone.

Radim Malinic: So with the process, because you mentioned sketches and then to paint it, so for [00:24:30] example if you're painting a building or a venue or the um,lodge named, I forgot in Richmond Park, even though I cycled past it a million times. what is your process and actually how do you explain to clients what the [00:24:40] process is?

Because I found, not because I've read Art of Explanation by Ross Atkins, but from personal experience, that to explain every single point and what people would [00:24:50] expect usually makes the process of delivering the work and actually the whole commission makes it much, much easier because people sometimes you tell them, like, it's going to cost you 10, 000 pounds.

You're like, what am I doing [00:25:00] here? Like what,and you explain to them every single step in the process. and then you realize when you spelled it all out, like.I'm not charging you enough, this should be more expensive. with the watercolour and your [00:25:10] commissions, how do you, when you get a brief, what would the sketches look like, and how do you then go into the high res and the final sort of 

render? 

I say, I'll render, it's neither of the things, high res or [00:25:20] render. 

Final 

painting, sorry. 

Imogen Partridge: yeah, so because there is less scope for me to change, I mean,obviously I can take things, once it's finished, I can take it into [00:25:30] Photoshop or something and I could make changes if I needed to, but obviously I try and avoid that as much as possible because the point is, it is created by hand and it should be a piece of artwork that I could [00:25:40] potentially send to the client if they wanted me to. you know, obviously it's, I can easily. But, that means that the sketch process is really important, that I get it [00:25:50] right, and I, they're happy with it, so that they can sign it off, and I can essentially go away and create from that. I usually do quite a rough sketch, to get the [00:26:00] composition, and, indicate where things are going to be, and particularly with maps, this is, there's a bit more back and forth sometimes with maps, which I love doing, but obviously there's more elements to it. so that's kind [00:26:10] of a rough sketch to position everything and make sure they're happy with the kind of everything that's included on the page. So I'll send them that, and then they'll come back with comments, we can either have a [00:26:20] call to talk it through depending on how clear they are, and then I will sketch it up, sort of in detail, so it will be essentially as detailed as it's going to be, [00:26:30] in pencil. And then they will, again, have the opportunity, I'll scan the in, they'll have the opportunity to comment and we'll talk through and make sure that they're completely happy. [00:26:40] If there are any changes, I'll do the changes and again, I will need to say, this is the final sketch. Are you happy that's signed off?

Because the next bits I'm not going to be able to [00:26:50] change very easily. and then I do an ink line drawing next, and then I do the watercolour. but even once I've done the ink, it's hard to change that. So yeah, that's the important bit.[00:27:00] 

Radim Malinic: How do you do your collaboration? Do have you got specific tools that you use? Do you, do you scan it, take a picture? Do how do you get people to comment on the work? Do you share it via Dropbox or how [00:27:10] do you do that process? Is it just to show it as people on Zoom call going left, right, distance and 

that?

what's your technique on this one? 

Imogen Partridge: I would always scan it, because that's the clearest way [00:27:20] to see the whole page, but I sometimes also take pictures, because I sometimes feel that a scan, you can't necessarily see all of the detail in the way that you can, what I'm [00:27:30] looking at, and I want to make it sure that they can see what I'm looking at, but it is pretty simple. pretty much a scan and maybe some, maybe a couple of photos, and then I'll send it to them. And then, yeah, whether that's an email or [00:27:40] if it's a larger file or, a series of files, it could be a Google drive thing or something, but it's relatively straightforward process.

Radim Malinic: and how do you get their comments? do they, mark it up or? [00:27:50] Is it on the phone? Because I mean,yeah, I found that the more you get them to be specific, the easier your life is. So I've just developed lots of methods on how to get people to make [00:28:00] sure that they talk about the right thing, about the right page in the right space.

So how do you get your comments? 

Imogen Partridge: Yeah, again, that varies because if it's a really simple [00:28:10] piece and a building facade or something, and there's just one page and it's quite straightforward, they can just come back in the email and it's,pretty clear. but if it's something a bit more in depth, I'll ask [00:28:20] them to mark it up directly, so that they're literally writing on the page or if their comments are longer, they can put a number and, corresponding, writing in an email or something like that. But [00:28:30] if it is more in depth and there are more comments, I would always have a call to make sure that we're, even if it's just a quick phone call, you know, it doesn't have to be a video call or anything like that necessarily. Video call can be [00:28:40] helpful because we can get up on the screen. I think it's just really important to talk through, if there's anything that you're even considering that you might think differently or interpret differently, it's important to [00:28:50] understand exactly what they're saying because it just makes it more efficient for everyone.

Radim Malinic: it's always a proper key of like how to get people to understand what you're trying to say, because everyone's got two different pairs of eyes, two pairs [00:29:00] of eyes, one pair of eyes, obviously. Um,curious about the style of illustration, because obviously it's,architectural.

it something that you thought you would be doing, or do you like building so [00:29:10] much? Did you draw them or is it something that, I think what you do, I think it, got, I dunno much about watercolor and who else is in the watercolor, around you.

But I just feel like [00:29:20] you've created almost like a trademark style, like a no signature style bitch. I feel it's very desirable, but it's buildings and it's maps and that kind of stuff. And is this [00:29:30] what you wanted to do? Or are you looking now for other opportunities to draw whatever else could be possible to achieve as a medium?

Imogen Partridge: Yeah, I think I started [00:29:40] buildings indirectly, sort of,I was painting them for reasons, and then I realized that I really like painting them and I really like,Yeah, I think I like that there's so [00:29:50] much detail and so much character, and there's, it's one of those things where the more you look, the more you can see, and I think as I'm painting in more detail, I notice more and more, and I really like that, [00:30:00] because my paintings are quite small and quite detailed, and I think watercolour can be quite, expressive, and lots of washes, but mine is very much not that.

it is very detailed, and I think I [00:30:10] like that people, When they see my work in person particularly, are drawn into it and will look closer because it's quite small But I think because yeah I mean I [00:30:20] do maps and I've done sort of interiors and all sorts of different things now I actually had a think about what is it that I love painting and what is it that draws sort of the [00:30:30] projects that I've enjoyed the most?

what has come out of those? And I think it is always the stories. It's always places. I mean, the thing that drew me to buildings was because they hold so much for us. some of the [00:30:40] buildings that I've painted that I've created prints from are places that I just love that have got, one is an antique shop in Hastings which I just, is like a complete treasure trove, it's an [00:30:50] amazing shop and it's been there for a really long time. and one is also in Hastings, one of my favourite pubs and it's just, I just hold so many sort of memories and emotions, those [00:31:00] places, and I think it's those feelings that I love capturing. So I think it's, whether it's people's house portraits, which [00:31:10] are so important to them, and, where they've grown up, or, their parents home that they're having to move out of, or, all sorts of things like that.

It's those stories and those, Things that I like capturing and I think [00:31:20] for businesses, being able to bring your story and some kind of more human elements in through something like this is a really lovely way to connect. [00:31:30] in a different way with your clients and customers. And I think having, I've done things like postcards that are included in an order or that people could take away when they [00:31:40] visited.

And having something like that, that you can keep and you, it reminds you of the place and the time that you spent there or, All of those things, I think, are [00:31:50] what draw me to a project, and I think having a client that understands that, or that has those stories, is where I find the really lovely relationships [00:32:00] form.

Radim Malinic: I think it's an amazing story about stories because when you think about how we see buildings painted in the books and how, the illustration especially, let's say kids books and, you know, books they've got a [00:32:10] nice,antique feel, it transcends you to a different place.

So if you've got a memory of some place that is actually is painted, it's perfect. What you're saying is this, the stories 

Imogen Partridge: think [00:32:20] because I spend such a long time working on them, I really get invested in the places and I love it when I have something where I have to, I say I [00:32:30] love it, it makes it a lot more difficult but sometimes people will send me different photos and I need to piece something together because they want it to be just how they remembered,it's actually, this bush was like this, or, you know,there [00:32:40] fabric on the chair outside or something like that and being able to do that for people is really amazing but also me taking the time that I take over it, I am so invested in it [00:32:50] for them as well as I get things out of it and they get something out of it and I think it's the combination of that process that makes it different from just having, a photo of the house or [00:33:00] something like that which is obviously something you could easily do.

Radim Malinic: You're encapsulating history, and you said something a few seconds ago, like when you say there's so much in the buildings, in the detail, because [00:33:10] I, years ago, I did a gallery show, like a typographical show, called the Western Show, celebrating seven or eight parts of West London,from Soho to, Seven Dials [00:33:20] to Piccadilly.

And I was inspired by the architecture of the old and trying to bring it into the new. And as someone who loves London, and I don't think you can [00:33:30] ever get bored of London, I still look up and just see these details that are so beautifully crafted from generations that didn't have, a tenth of the [00:33:40] tools that we have now and they created these pieces that are so so timeless and so amazing and then you see the new more cost effective architecture and thinking who's going to be [00:33:50] drawing that in 100 years time who's going to be doing this because Even their race I think has really sort ofarchitecturally really stupid period of 10 or 15 years ago when it was just basically [00:34:00] blocks going up, likeskinny, blocks of cheese, this is nothing nice about it.

It seems that there's a bit of a trend and a bit more sort of development and manufacturing and styling that actually some of the new [00:34:10] buildings are actually quite nice. But what makes London, for example, is the beautiful architecture. when you go to places like Toronto Montreal, you see like,okay, the old style.[00:34:20] 

Xbox Mix, God gives the space does not know the place to soul, thinking like this is what I'm loving as opposed to this humongous block of concrete, which is brown and [00:34:30] soulless, you're like, I guess that's what we need, but how many people will be cherishing that, you know,that skyscraper that had 77 floors.

it was amazing. not really, it's [00:34:40] crumbling to pieces. Whereas the building that was, that is attached to, which is like a 300 year old pub. We saved it for the right reason because it's a 300 year old pub, it's just our [00:34:50] thing. 

When you're describing, I think what you're doing with your,bespoke customers, it's just, it's, it sounds amazing because yeah, you, spend your time on it.

You create,emotional connection you do that. [00:35:00] So seeing like,obviously when you say I'm putting. blankets of bushes and angles and stuff. It's just, we're recreating people's memories in a way that it's more than a photograph. And I think that's [00:35:10] fantastic because I think, do you find yourself like bonding with the clients?

especially with those ones that then you go to the back and from you hear more of a story because it doesn't really happen on a commercial project [00:35:20] like 

Imogen Partridge: definitely. I do. And I think that's always really special. And I think it's really lovely when, people share. I had, someone sent me a video [00:35:30] of her giving her parents their house portrait and they cried, which is most I've ever been shared in an experience. But bless her for sending that.

But it's just really lovely that [00:35:40] people,are so happy and enthusiastic about what they've received that they share their experience of even like giving it to people. And I have a friend that I [00:35:50] did a piece for her parents for their wedding anniversary. She was telling me the other day that they always, anyone who comes into their house they're so proud of it, they always show them.

And it's really lovely to [00:36:00] hear things like that. But it's interesting that you say that about, the commercial side as well, because the client that was my favorite client I worked with last year, they obviously don't have exactly the [00:36:10] same connection, but they're, they were so enthusiastic about my work and the way I worked and working together. And they were so kind with their responses and their comments and everything [00:36:20] like that. They were just a really lovely client to work with, but I really felt that they were invested in it in a way that I was surprised to have from a business client. And [00:36:30] that was a really nice thing to have that people are actually so invested in that, they're a relatively new company, but on a fairly large scale, cause they're [00:36:40] opening a hotel in London. but that was really nice that they obviously feel a lot as well for their company and for what they're doing. And I've got another client as well that I'm working with at the moment, which [00:36:50] is some maps, kind of conservation areas and again, this is a similar client. It's a business, but they all feel it so much that I'm getting the same kind of [00:37:00] relationship that I have from their enthusiasm and their passion for what they do and for what I can bring to that from that.

And I really love that there is an opportunity with working with businesses as well as private clients.[00:37:10] 

Radim Malinic: I think what you're describing is it's when people put a soul in their business. And I wasn't trying to generalize there's no emotions in commercial 

work. 

Like sometimes, when you 

create [00:37:20] almost like a throwaway value PDF, no white paper, like we're not. 

going to be celebrating that, but When you said it was for a hotel client and already is where stories happen, you know,the people meet, you know, [00:37:30] you've got the soul of the building and conservation area.

Again, that sounds something should cherish. And it's why people actually care about it. We conserve it for a reason. How long does it [00:37:40] take for a commission from start to finish? And especially the,your part, we know the to and fro with clients takes a while, but your creative hours, your craft hours, how long does it [00:37:50] take?

Imogen Partridge: yes,

yeah, how long is a piece of string? I mean, something like a building illustration is a good example, because that is something that I could potentially, if I had everything, I could just sit down and I could [00:38:00] do it. And that would probably take me between two and three days, I would say. For a, yeah, full detailed one. I mean, in the case of clients and things like that, it varies a bit [00:38:10] depending, particularly with businesses, depending on their budgets and what they're asking me to do, and sometimes they'll come to me and say, you know,we need something by this date, can you do that?

So I'll always try and do that, obviously, [00:38:20] but it is very much, I can put less into it, I can make it less detailed, for example, but it is what it then looks like as a result. So I [00:38:30] think I have different examples that I tend to send people to say, you know, I can,can do this,this would be what I would do, but actually if you need it for this amount of time and this amount of money, then I would do this [00:38:40] and yeah, it's kind ofa balance, isn't it?

Radim Malinic: As a parent, spending 2 days on a piece, how achievable is it? Like,do you have to find yourself working [00:38:50] around drop offs? mean, you said you had a child in Have you just one? Two? 

How 

many kids have you got? 

Imogen Partridge: I have two, one is about to turn two and one's just turned four, [00:39:00] so they're both at nursery but haven't started school yet. yes, it's a juggle. so my working days, I have three full days a week that I can work, and then anything, if I want to work around that, it's [00:39:10] for me to decide. but I've been so used to, obviously, working on the side of my day job, it has been a case of doing my day job, coming home, getting my children. putting them into bed [00:39:20] and then doing some work starting in the evening and potentially sometimes at the weekend, sharing a bit with my husband and things like that, but I've been so used to that juggle that now three days [00:39:30] feels like a luxury, but I generally just work with quite long lead times with my clients wherever possible, which allows me to. kind [00:39:40] of build that in around what I'm doing. as I said, obviously if people come to me with a date, I'll have to work to that. And that is sometimes when I'll have to stay up really late. And so it's what [00:39:50] is the project? if I'm having to stay up really late and I'm really tired, is it worth me doing it? And how much are they paying me? And do I want to do the project? So it's,it's [00:40:00] all a balance and a juggle.

Radim Malinic: Yeah, but you're coming from a sort of place of a mature beginning and like mature style, like,I can do this. I can, because when you're [00:40:10] novice, you go, ah, ready, steady, go mental, you know,like I'll stay up for 17 hours a day every day because, youthat's what I'm doing now. So I think, sounds like you've got things a bit more worked out and I'd love to [00:40:20] hear that you've got slightly longer lead times because, you get all sorts of different situations and all sorts of different people that, longer lead times and al always possible.

And sometimes that feels that there's never longer [00:40:30] lead times, but sounds like through your conversations with your clients, obviously like the discussions about what you need to do, like there's actually a lot of sound built into this that you can actually allows you to do.

work [00:40:40] that you enjoy and actually in a way that you can enjoy it. So that's really good. I'm really happy to hear that. I've got two extra things written from a few previous conversations and from previous [00:40:50] answers. One of them being you started doing workshops yourself.

How did that come about?

Obviously, I know that you've taken workshops yourself and then you started doing your own. So [00:41:00] how do you run it and what do you do?

Imogen Partridge: I really love them. I started them last year as, I think I had them on my radar because [00:41:10] I know that's a thing that people do and people always talk about diversifying your income streams and I thought, should I try that? Then someone approached me, it was a Neptune store actually, [00:41:20] and they asked me if I do workshops and would I consider running one and I, at the time, was a, had it on my radar and was thinking about it and I said yes and then had a conversation with her and thought [00:41:30] okay now I better get this set up.

but that's great isn't it? Something like that sometimes pushes you to do something that you're already considering. So early last year I set them up as a kind of an [00:41:40] introduction to watercolour and I had a few sort of Bouts of imposter syndrome of who do I think I am to teach people this, because I don't have qualifications [00:41:50] in, what I'm doing right now, in illustration or painting or anything like that. But then I went to a watercolour workshop myself, of someone who I admire, and it [00:42:00] was such a treat of a day out. And I really enjoyed the day and I thought, actually, this is what it's about, isn't it? This is what people are coming for. They're not coming to get a qualification. They're not coming to get [00:42:10] some kind of certificate.

They don't need the technicalities. They just want a space to be inspired and to learn from someone. And like,that was a perfect example because I went to someone [00:42:20] else's watercolor workshop and I do watercolors. So it's just sometimes learning from somebody who does it in a different way to you. yeah.

But I've set them up so that it can be for anyone, [00:42:30] people who have never painted before, haven't painted since school, and I get a real range of people coming. And I used last year as a great kind of starting point to get lots of [00:42:40] feedback. and so this year, off the back of that, I'm making a few changes here and there, for example, making them a little bit longer. and yeah, experimenting with kind of maybe a day sort of workshop and things like [00:42:50] that. But it's essentially a place to come and just Unwind and paint for a couple of hours and learn the way that I paint, but also I just encourage [00:43:00] people to experiment really, and it's so nice to meet people and have like minded people who enjoy being creative or are interested in trying to be creative and, [00:43:10] or haven't done it for a really long time and it's really nice to see people inspired and enjoying it and they always want to stay longer and I love that.

Radim Malinic: You heard me on Tin Hooks when you said, I went to a workshop by someone I [00:43:20] really admire. I was thinking, I hope it was good. because it was like, I went to someone's workshop who I admire and it wasn't good. so I think that's it. No, my sort of, bought [00:43:30] Englishness. It was like, oh, I hope it was good.

so that, that's great. I mean, it's interesting, obviously you said that people asking for the workshops to be longer, how many people do youdo you normally have in your workshop?

Imogen Partridge: so far I've done [00:43:40] between about 8 and 10, my next one I've got 15, but I wouldn't go any, probably any higher than 

that, 

Radim Malinic: So it's quite a sort of intimate setting. Yeah. 

Imogen Partridge: exactly. And I want to be [00:43:50] able to have time to talk to everybody. And especially because I have such a range of abilities, like I've got a lovely couple who have come to about four of my workshops already and they're coming to the next one. And because they've [00:44:00] come to lots, they, I've said to them, you know, if you want to bring your own painting that you're working on, or if you've got any specific questions, they might have something that they've got a project on at home and they might get it out to show [00:44:10] me and say, what do you think about this?

And it's really nice. that they can do that and I can give them the time to have that conversation with them and then maybe talk to the person who's sitting next to them who hasn't [00:44:20] touched a paintbrush for years. So I think it's important to have that level of kind of, yeah, not keeping it quite intimate for that reason.

Radim Malinic: once been to a speaking [00:44:30] workshop with someone fairly famous. And there was about 30 of us.it was not good. It was literally like, the intimacy of the eye, like you want to have sort ofdevelop an [00:44:40] idea in a day and you have immediate feedback. And it was the people who were shouting aloud as we're getting the attention and the feedback.

And you're like, if you were sort ofmore timid, not that I [00:44:50] was, but if you were more timid sitting in the corner and be like, yeah, you know what, you kind of miss out because it's overbooked. it's not done in the right way because even like with the introductions, the introduction took an [00:45:00] hour, 

it's nice to know that the person at the back of the room is called Gary, I've spent hundreds of pounds being here to actually learn something. And it's, of course you're learning from other people's presentations and stuff, [00:45:10] butI think what you're doing is, I think sounds perfect.

It's like having the right amount of people actually give them the value back because Throughout this conversation, I'm picking up on the same thing. It's like [00:45:20] generosity and community building and giving people, warmth of your crowd. So yeah, it's coming great.

Absolutely. Beautifully. the last thing I've written on my list was goal setting because you mentioned your goal [00:45:30] setting. So How do you do it? what were spots on the list? And where would you see yourself in the most ideal outcome of your career? What would you do? And how are you going to [00:45:40] go achieve about it?

Because you said you listen to podcasts, you do courses and stuff. So you're working on yourself, which is brilliant because you're not sitting there going, well, I've got my watercolour set. What's going to [00:45:50] happen next in my life? so everything you're doing is beautifully proactive. So.Not many people talk about goal setting.

Lots of people talk about dreams. They're like, Oh, I wish I had this as a client. I wish I was doing that. [00:46:00] And then they go on Twitter and they'll be a victim of nothing's happening for me. So how do you do your goal setting?

Imogen Partridge: actually, this year I did a day [00:46:10] retreat, goal setting strategy day thing with Alice Benham in London. And Alice Benham is a genius. I love her. I, she has a [00:46:20] podcast, starting conversation, which also talks you through the goal setting thing. So you could probably do it yourself off your own back.

and she is a generous person with sharing kind of value and. free resources and things. [00:46:30] but that was so helpful and it was a brilliant, it was probably about 20 people, business owners, and it was in London, and we spent the day, working through prompts that she set, that Alice [00:46:40] set, to get ourselves to find our own goals.

And it's really, really interesting because last year I did a one to one session with Alice, which was a goal setting and strategy thing, and [00:46:50] That was really helpful and it helped me map out my year then break it down into quarters, but I was wondering how she would be able to get [00:47:00] people to do that themselves because it was so much the first, when it was one to one, it was me sort ofsplurging everything and then her making it more coherent and helping me angle it, [00:47:10] and it was really clever the way that she worked, she got us to work through prompts to tease those things out for ourselves, because I think that's sometimes something that I really struggle with and which is why [00:47:20] I identified that it would be an area where having some external help would be helpful for me because I have so many ideas and there's so many things that I want to do and could do [00:47:30] and I sometimes struggle to sort of,align that to a plan and what I need to do now and what is something that I could maybe look at doing next year or in six months time or [00:47:40] maybe that's something that you work towards slowly.

So I think that was really helpful. Because it, it is that thing, isn't it? It's bridging the gap between your kind of, your big dreams and your ultimate goal, but then [00:47:50] how do you break it down into kind of, where do I want to get to this year or in the next six months? and then I think, how does that look each day?

Like, how do I break that down [00:48:00] into things that I can do each week or each day to actually get to those points? Because it's, one thing having an idea and having a dream or having a business plan or anything like that, but it's, How are you, [00:48:10] what actions are you taking that again, moving you towards that?

And I know you're making sure that you're doing them.

Radim Malinic: love what you described because I've never, that was the first time like the glimpse of Oh, maybe there's a little bit [00:48:20] more behind the sort of serenity of the watercolour work and the clients and stuff, because. It's so easy to turn all of these ideas into ambitious anxiety because the [00:48:30] world is Disneyland.

Like it's on steroids. Like you can do anything anytime, anybody, right? yeah, you can contact a hundred people a day. You can send a hundred personal messages. You can start a hundred different, side projects. [00:48:40] it's excessive due to the number, but 

our minds can run away with ourselves going like,I can do anything, but what is your focus? Because even though we talk about diversifying of incomes [00:48:50] and I had Liz Mosley on a podcast a few weeks ago about diversifying. you are slicing your time into things that require your attention.

There's no such thing as a [00:49:00] passive income. Passive income is if you really invested really well and someone's really working on it. You can classify that as a passive income, working on your product and your business on your next venture, it [00:49:10] requires active energy. And it's just there's the zero about passive about So especially having a goal setting you are beautifully like steps ahead of people because you find in the [00:49:20] clarity, because what we do is the myriad of little things that add up together and They produce the final outcome, but it's like how well you attend to little pieces because they can confuse you so quickly and [00:49:30] derail you.

so you spending time on yourself, you're doing the courses. would you recommend it? Because you're beaming from ear to ear, like what you [00:49:40] do and how you do it, and obviously you're working proactively on, on your future.

I just wish you can recognize we can get more people to actually do and spend more time on themselves because I think better version of [00:49:50] yourself that you bring to the client conversations, you can actually understand what's being said, metabolize the changes, you know,like working at this, difficult clients [00:50:00] and they always will crop up from somewhere.

deal with it much easier a human being. So is there anything on your radar that you're thinking, I need to do this. I need to have my, in my personal [00:50:10] arsenal, or in my personal skill set or professional skill set, because you go into other people's workshops. What is your next goal in terms of development?

Imogen Partridge: one of my big goals this year is [00:50:20] financial empowerment. So I feel like my mindset, generally mindset, I would say is probably the biggest learning curve and the biggest part [00:50:30] of, running your business, I would say that is the place that I would put any kind of investment of time or energy before anything else, because I think [00:50:40] I've realized how much power you have over it, but how it is something that you have to actively work at. I mean, I do a lot of it through osmosis of listening to podcasts, [00:50:50] but, I think that's something that's helped me. But one thing that I find is a stumbling block in my brain is my, the financial side of my business. And I don't know if it's something that I have told myself I'm not [00:51:00] very good at math, because I've got lots of spreadsheets, like, I'm very organized, and I have worked all of this out, but for some reason, I don't think I'm very good at it. And, as a result, it's become a thing [00:51:10] that I feel is a sticking point. So this year, I've, got a strategy in place of sort of things that I'm gonna do to help myself feel more confident about it. and that's, one thing. But I would also say, I, feel [00:51:20] like I, it sounds quite a lot like I've got all of this sussed, and I haven't at all, and I'm also really scared. But I think it's definitely having ways to deal with that. [00:51:30] It's knowing what to do when you're feeling all of those things, isn't it? And I think it's, that's what's helped me, is. being able to recognize that I'm having one of those days where looking at other people [00:51:40] isn't very good for me so I shouldn't do it or maybe, get off social media and do a different project or where actually I'm really worried that I'm not making enough money to pay for nursery [00:51:50] or, something like that.

So what can I do about that? Or what can I actively do in this moment to help myself feel better? but all of that is mindset, isn't it? So I think It's all a constant learning curve and I [00:52:00] definitely do not have it sussed and I'm definitely not completely sorted but I feel like I probably have the tools. to get sorted and it's a case of [00:52:10] using them wisely and I think having something like the goal setting and the clear things that you're doing is a great thing to have up on your wall so that you can refer to it when you're feeling a bit all over the place and you're not [00:52:20] sure where to go next.

Having something like that is just so valuable to have written down to be able to look at to guide you in the right direction.

Radim Malinic: It's okay to be [00:52:30] scared. Everyone is scared, you know,from my book that, even at the beginning, everyone's scared. And even throughout. There's always something because it's in our human nature. Like we need a survival instinct. [00:52:40] Like we need to problem solve things.

Like we need to be, we need that element of our life because if there's no friction, it's just, we lose interest. we just wouldn't do it right. So we tell [00:52:50] ourselves how easy we would like to have it and Because no one's going to find bank balance, you know,like you can pay for your nursery, you can pay for something like, Oh, maybe this is the next goal.

You know,we always try to upgrade our lives and think that we should [00:53:00] be doing more. We tell ourselves that somebody else is like earning and learning more. And,that's what we should be doing, whereas if you see it from your own lens, from your own point of view. You live your own story [00:53:10] I can tell that you're enjoying it it's okay to admit that and be scared, obviously it's ensuring that it's perfect, like it's absolutely perfect it's necessary to tell people that.

But [00:53:20] I think it just comes with the mindset because Even if you're employed, you might be scared you might lose your job. You know, you're thinking, oh, the company's not doing well, so I might be scared of that. And you've got no control of it. 

Gary in [00:53:30] accounts, you know, is 

doing this, so many mistakes and whatever happens.

and you've got no control. Whereas if you do it yourself, it's like,okay, I've got a steering wheel. I'm not exactly sure where I'm [00:53:40] going, but I'm going somewhere where I'm going to decide how to get there and I can put as much fuel in this tank like myself and decide it because then you [00:53:50] don't end up with regrets in a way because the what if it's already ticked off.

Like,okay, I've given this a chance. to flourish. I've given the chance, I've given it the best chance. And even though, my [00:54:00] wife's not good with numbers, but she's a genius many other different ways, you know, you would never know it, but our superpowers need to be coupled up with things that we don't, we're not very good at, because that always gives us the [00:54:10] strife to like,okay, I can improve this.

I can do this better. Because if you see somebody else doing it, You never know how scared they are or how financially unstable they are, because [00:54:20] you only have to, for example, look on the high street or how many businesses are near bankruptcy most of the time, because They might have a shiny shelves and new collections, but it's like the swan on the water,it looks [00:54:30] serene on the surface, but there's a lot of paddling underneath the water.

So I think sometimes there's a sort of idyllic nature or idyllic, idea of okay, being an artist. [00:54:40] comes with no issues. Like it's just, it should be all sunshine and ice cream and it should be all great. But it's the conflict is that friction, as I keep repeating myself, that [00:54:50] makes us actually more interested because you're making it easy.

I don't think it would be very sustainable for us overall. 

Imogen Partridge: I think also that's why I find conversations [00:55:00] like this really helpful. I love hearing from people who are successful and who have really made it in their career or done what they wanted in their career and [00:55:10] that they have all of these worries and all of these concerns. They still have all of these thoughts, but just on a different level.

And then also listening to people who are earlier in their career or in the middle of their career. [00:55:20] I find that so helpful listening to a range of people talking and understanding how everybody's journeys are so different. And it sounds really obvious, but when you hear people talking, [00:55:30] it really helps you to understand it and to see it from so many different perspectives.

Radim Malinic: I think from one parent to another, I had this advice when it was my wife's business partner and talking to her and she says, [00:55:40] just cause she's got all the children, she says, Rach. It doesn't get easy.

It just gets different. like you, you always have something. in your view that you have to tackle, because, personally, like [00:55:50] for couple of decades in, there's things that used to be a battle, which are now the norm. And we've made peace with it and we've streamlined the process.

We know how to do this, but there's always another challenge. There's always [00:56:00] something that, we're trying to do because we don't stand still. So when there was a piece, somewhere online where somebody said, bigger budget doesn't mean the project is going to go easier because you're [00:56:10] going to have a bigger budget.

You're going to try to do bigger things and you're always going to end up with a pound left. it doesn't mean that you had a million pounds. You do budget, you know,you do project for 20 grand and you've got, nine, eight, [00:56:20] no, talking about numbers, I can't do it.

I want to fly, but you know what I mean? Like, it'sit just gets different. 

And I think that's the motto of like,you just, when you 

accept it, because. Working on [00:56:30] yourself. And,as you know,I've put a lot of information in mind for creative, like it's,What makes that different when it doesn't get easier, when it gets different, you you're ready for it.

It's like, okay, well, we've done these [00:56:40] things for 10 years or five years or 10 times before. I can understand the pattern recognition. Obviously this is what we can look after, look out for and tweak. So,I'm [00:56:50] rooting for you. I'm your cheerleader and I think you're going to do really well and you're already doing great.

and all of these little tremors and all these little wobbles, it just, that's exactly what they should be 

because, you enjoy the [00:57:00] heist and you enjoy the, wins and the celebration so much more.

Imogen Partridge: and I think that's why reading Mindful Creative right now has been so helpful for me, at the beginning [00:57:10] of this bit of going, Solo. I already recognize a lot of the traits of the not good stuff that I've been doing, but where it's, I've been squeezing it [00:57:20] in and things like that, but having something like that right now has been so helpful to be able to think, okay, well, actually going forwards, maybe this would be a better way of doing it.

Or maybe there's kind ofjust [00:57:30] understanding from your experience and looking at my experience so far, how that can kind ofmaybe feed into creating a slightly better culture, [00:57:40] around it. And yeah, I don't know. It's always a learning curve, isn't it? But, yeah, I'm excited.

Radim Malinic: as you always try to set yourself for the win and then you see the elements, you know, youcome across the elements and you see [00:57:50] what happens, 

but that's what is the beautiful part about it because you never know what will come next. Thank you for coming on the show. I really enjoyed listening to you, finding out more about watercolor.

I think it's a fascinating world. I love what you [00:58:00] do and I wish you all the success. I think you do absolutely brilliantly.

Imogen Partridge: Oh, thank you so much for having me. It's been so lovely to talk to you.

Radim Malinic: Thank you.

 [00:58:10] 

Radim Malinic: Thank you for listening to this episode of Creativity for Sale podcast. The show was produced and presented by me, [00:58:20] Radim Malinic. Editing and audio production was masterfully done by 

Neil mackay,. from 7 million Bikes Podcasts, 

Theme music was written and produced by Robert Summerfield. [00:58:30] If you enjoyed this episode and would like to support the podcast, please subscribe and leave a rating or review.

To get your own action plan on how to start and grow a life changing creative [00:58:40] business. You can get a copy of the Creativity for Sale book via the links in show notes. burning, and until next time, I'm Radim [00:58:50] Malinich, your guide through this exploration of passion, creativity, innovation, and the boundless potential within us all. [00:59:00]