A short bonus episode showcasing a few stand out moments from this week's guest interview with Jono McCleery ~

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[00:00:00] 

Hey, welcome to another bonus episode of the Daring Creativity Podcast. This is episode number 24 of the current series. I'm here to unpack some of the gems from this week's conversation, pulling out those moments that deserve a second look, and digging deeper into what makes them special 

 I'm always on the lookout for the moments and ideas that hit different. This week I spoke to John McCleary, a single songwriter, her bridges, folk jazz, and electronic music, while maintaining an unwavering commitment to creative authenticity. This episode published a few days ago was titled Dare to Trust the Puzzle, and has given me a chance to catch up with Jono and talk about his creative output, be it his own records, all collaborative projects with dance producers.

It was a fantastic conversation about every angle of what it takes to be an independent musician in the age of now. If you haven't checked out a full interview yet, let me start with these four moments that stood out from our conversation.

Jono: yeah, it [00:01:00] takes resilience, I think, to keep going. for me, not having a plan B is quite a good reason as well.  I tried doing, rubbish jobs and it just, man, I could do a rubbish job for six months and then I'm, I got so much respect for people who can do that for, for a lifetime.

oh my gosh, I really not having a plan B and knowing that. Music is all I've got and all I want to really, live for in a professional sense. yeah, I, simply have to make this work somehow. that's my mindset.

As you can imagine, and the reason why I chose this is I love this quote. I nearly named the episode Dan not to have a plan B. 'cause I just love the honesty. It's absolutely perfectly on the nose. if you don't have a plan B,you have to see plant A through.

And I just loved it because we could have a sort of romantic notions of creative careers, but. This is Geno's commitment and I like it because this is his artistic survival 'cause Geno's true honesty about having no four black plan. [00:02:00] Well, some might see as a reckless optimism, but I think it's a strategic necessity

in the era where most of us diversify, and let's be honest, I'm doing lots of different things in different places, but I would like to believe I'm still working creatively and I'm pursuing creative career. I see Jonos singular focus. 

is the mindset that transforms obstacles from potentially stopping points into puzzles that must be solved in general, singular mindset. It demonstrates the mindset that simply keeps him on track. I love the fact when he mentioned that, you know, he used to try working rubbish jobs, but he couldn't really do it because I believe people like Jono are destined to be lifelong musicians because he talked in a conversation about the fact that there's, um, eternal fire burning that he creates every day.

And that's a true validation and kind of. Prove that someone is destined to do what they do. [00:03:00] it's great to know that he can support himself through streaming and other income sources 

 when streaming revenue fluctuates. His lack of alternative sources might be actually resilience rather than vulnerability. Because for anyone struggling with creative commitment, this moment validates the power of full investment and sometimes the safety net itself can prevent you from From learning to fly.

Jono: think I try and make the whole process as unconscious as possible. and I obviously have to be in a good place to make that happen. feel good. but the ideal scenario is, feeling good about yourself, hitting the record button and just being as free as possible coming back later, to observe what you've done and then you can start to structure it.

It was again, very great to see the behind the scenes of what it's like to be writing songs was general's process and how he does it and I just felt like his way of revealing this was, in a way a sophisticated understanding of [00:04:00] creativity as discovery rather than construction.

And I'm sure that makes sense now because by prioritizing his unconscious creations of a conscious craft, he taps into Something more authentic than what deliberate planning typically yields. I was very curious about lyrics, where do they come from and how he does it, and I just love that he said that his process of recording improvisation first then sort of leads to themes that emerge naturally.

 he inverts the typical songwriting formula where lyrics and concepts come first. This approach respects the intuition, the idea that our, some subconscious often knows what we need to express before our rational minds can articulate it.

For some musicians paralyzed by perfection or overthinking, I just love the general's method, often liberation. Start by playing record everything, and trust and meaning will reveal itself. The [00:05:00] discipline comes not enforcing ideas, but by creating conditions where the unconscious wisdom can surface and then have the patience, the decode, what you've captured.

Jono: Yeah. absolutely limitations are so important. And actually now I remember, I'm kind of glad I got into music before technology really developed as well, because now it's like everything's so easy, to get going with recording of stuff. I had a tape, four track cassette, four track, and it was also very limited in what I could.

 Record. and then if you wanna do more than three or four tracks together, you gotta start bouncing tracks together forever. so that you had to develop a lot discipline working like this and, and I think limitations is so important actually. Yeah. otherwise it can be easily overwhelming.

what's possible to do?

In the age of infinite digital possibilities. Jonno talks about a constraints as a creative catalyst.

His original four track cassette record a forced decisions that modern digital recorders wouldn't [00:06:00] do. I was curious about the fact, for example, how he tunes his guitar. If he goes into odd tunings, odd timings, what does he do?

And it was great to hear that. He keeps everything really simple. he was grateful for the fact that he started his music career before the digital tools, therefore giving him the space to explore the bare basics.because in our conversation we did talk about the fact that some musician use lots of gimmicks, toys, you know, tools, whatever you call it, uh, to help them sound different, but.

 the main episode was called Dare to Trust the Puzzle, and the word puzzle showed up so many times in our conversation because Jono just finds that taken what's given to you can provide you with unlimited amount of outcomes, questions, and options.

And I love that because. Taking things simple just makes you create stuff that's true [00:07:00] from your heart.

Jono: it's actually a really tricky time, with social media as well. The the pressure just to be constantly shouting about yourself on social media, I think, and  aware of your numbers, oh my gosh. it can really, interfere with your, creativity and, and not just that, but the general noise of the world.

I think it's, often. talk about this with my partner, you really have to protect yourself now. And, so easy to get swallowed up and all the noise and all the pressure to be something to the outside world. when really, you know, you just, gotta shut that out sometimes or most of the time.

in order to, be who you, need to be. is a horrible thing as, a creative person feeling this pressure to present myself to the world all the time. So I have to, almost switch mindset to do that and then try and protect the other side of me, which is somewhere else being creative. 

 in the fourth standup moment from our conversation.

I was curious about what it takes to be a musician in the 21st [00:08:00] century in the age of now, and what are the pressures of being on a social media or having the quantification of your following streams and fans, you know, knowing everything, all the data from around the world. How does it actually aid the creative process?

Because Jono was. Beautifully honest about the fact that it can really derail someone's creativity because ultimately as humans, we look for that native tribalistic, sense of belonging. We want to know that we are accepted, that we are understood, and. You can't see any more of this in the behavior of musicians because they express theirselves through sometimes elaborate record making process, which, in John's case, can take a few years and some people can skew their output [00:09:00] to make you more effective to go with the trends to go with.

 What might be popular, what might be useful to, streaming platforms, what might be catchy, what might go viral. But one of the reasons why I wanted to chat to Jono was the fact that I wanted to see how someone so devoted to his craft, to his output and who's double down on who they are, is really thinking and who's really sort of producing this work.

So I really cherished my conversation with Jono because he was very honest about how you can operate, how you can survive, how you can thrive in a current scenario, where in general's admission, you know, the, the process of just being a musician, producing albums.

All of that can get really too much, but ultimately, him not having a plan B makes the plan A, just that more [00:10:00] valuable, filled with all sorts of tools and skills needed to see the journey through, be it resilience, compromise, compassion, empathy. willingness to try.

So if you haven't checked out a full episode, I encourage you to do so. Thank you for being here, and I'll see you on the next one.