A short bonus episode showcasing a few standout moments from this week's guest interview with Dan Woodger  ~

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Radim: Hey, welcome to this bonus episode of the Daring Forever Podcast. This is my opportunity to zoom in on a few standout moments from this week's interview, finding those moments that deserve a second look, and dig deeper in what makes them special. This week, I spoke to Dan Budger, who's a freelance illustrator, animation director, and a returning voice on this show.

In our conversation, we talked about Dan's project titled Run London Draw London, 'cause it's about what happens when a hobby and a hunch and a sheer vision collide. His project grew from a five hundred donations into a 

full crowd scene with two hundred hand-drawn characters, a cameo And connection with Paul Ratcliffe and much more. The episode, published a few days ago, was titled "Dare to Ask for What You Want", and if you're an illustrator that's looking for new opportunities, you're in the right place.

It's a pure masterclass in going after what you want. If you haven't checked out the full episode yet, let me share with you these four standout moments.

Dan Woodger: I am been so guilty of waiting and sitting, and I've got an agent, and I've been letting them do their thing, and I've been chipping away at social media, but I have not been asking. It is true, don't ask, don't get. I started asking, and I started getting, and I-- Every time I was thinking, "Oh, this is really dark."

And don't get me wrong, there was lots of things that didn't happen. I shot messages at people and they never responded. 60, 70% of the time I got something back from it, and it's amazingly effective just asking for things and just being cheeky and just shooting a shot. I think it helps I believed in this as well.

I think it wasn't me just r- asking a random question. There was very much purpose behind what I was asking. But every time I felt like I shot for something, it came off. 

Radim: the reason why I've gone for the title of the episode with dare to ask for what you want, is because Dan has really shifted his energy from being an illustrator who's commercially busy, along with an agent, with, along with a social media presence, but momentarily actually waiting for things to happen and kind of reach him.

Because in his own words, he's been saying, "I've been guilty of sitting and waiting for what might come my way." But the idea of just pursuing what you really want, his love of running and illustration combined together on the back of many years of editorial illustrations for many different magazines that featured sports, themes, this really started working for him.

And I'm really happy because had the pleasure of sharing, studio space with Dan. I've witnessed parts of his career kind of unravel and flourish, and it's a beautiful way of sort of showing what can be done if you really go after what you want. So when he was saying that, some of the messages that he sent out, sixty, seventy percent you just don't get anything back, or but most of the time you don't get anything back.

I still personally believe that, sending just a few, three, four, five emails a day after what you want it'll become the law of averages. Sometimes at some point, someone will reply to you, back to you, and give you what you really want. And I think in this instance, it's great to see what Dan has created because, he had an idea of a project and he went after it and did it and didn't really stop until the end.

Dan Woodger: The challenge was that it could be anything, and then the idea was that with each donation, it would build up this huge crowd of runners and supporters on a image of the London Marathon route.

So I drew the entire tailored version of the London Marathon route that went past all the London landmarks, and then you had the crowd scene filled that space. And it was a bit of a mad idea because it required a lot of faith that the idea would work. The only way that it works as a piece is that if the crowd scene is filled.

So I put a lot of faith in the idea, and put it out there with basically nothing to show for it at the beginning. I had to start this project. The idea was that I was just gonna show something extremely raw and open. Again, I've been talking a little bit about beginning about AI and how I wanna show the creative process from a completely open book, this is how it all works.

These crowd scenes always only ever get shown at the end. I wanted to show how something like this is made in real time. 

Radim: In Dan's career, he's created a quite a few crowd scenes, that normally get revealed once the work is done and, finished.

And what he's done with his London Marathon project was the fact that he built it in real time, kind of from beginning to the end, in front of an audience, especially mainly strangers. His love for running, and illustration has been beautifully connecting for his passion for both of the topics in a way that it's combined in most perfect way.

What he was doing with the London Marathon piece was the actual way of showing what goes behind the scenes in a way that potentially required quite a bit of imagination from some participants at the beginning. But once the crowd scene started taking shape, it was a lot easier to translate it to people and actually get them to do the backing.

And again, what's really good in here is the fact that we wanna show what goes behind the scenes. Last week, I spoke to Eliza Williams, who's the editor of the Creative Review magazine, and she's very much a believer that showing the polished final piece is just a fraction of the story and potentially some of the most boring part of the story.

I'm paraphrasing, but there's some truth in it. Because showing what really goes behind the scenes, what is the struggle, what is the logistics, what goes wrong and what goes well, it's kind of the part of the humanity of creativity because we wanna share with others the parts that are a little bit, rough around the edges, but the ones that people can learn from.

Dan Woodger: one. I wanna make sure that if I do it again, I do it with the same level of intensity and commitment. So I'm making sure that I give myself enough time to recover and build up again so that I can take it on with the same level of dedication.

But yes, definitely actively looking for ways that I can partner as well with brands or with organizations that could help take off some of the burden of me doing it all myself, 'cause this was really DIY. This was fully me, and if there's any way that I could have the exposure of a running brand or a sponsor for one of the events to partner with me to help facilitate some of the things, like the prints I did all myself.

I used the money I took, money I made from The Observer double page spread and put that all back into printing and shipping costs for the prints. And I all did it all by hand, delivered the prints to myself in the office that we share, and then bagged everything up and sent it out by hand to the post office.

Those things came out of pocket. If there's a way to help s- facilitate some of those things in a way that other people could cover those costs and help me take some of the burden off, that'd be amazing. But all things to work out for the next one.

Radim: I mean, let's be honest, this is a pure commitment to the cause. I have chatted to Dan about 

The fact that he managed to get his illustration printed in The Observer as a double-page spread, just before the marathon, and it's one of those pieces that wouldn't have really happened. That double-page spread wouldn't be there if he didn't decide to go on and pursue this whole project.

 throughout the full interview, Dan was telling me, like, how he not only had a sixteen-week training block to get himself on track to be, marathon or race fit, but at the same time, as a, as a busy dad of two, he was also juggling client work, he was juggling this project, he was juggling so many other things.

And I think we always tell ourselves that things are impossible until we realize that, even the smallest of turbulences going up to the major turbulences and hurricanes are worth in our lives because we can enjoy what's the part of the outcome.

Because what Dan created for himself here is remarkable because it's that one thing that, it's ownable, it's his own, and he's managed to pull it off on his own, even from, sending prints by hand in a post office and getting them delivered, commissioned, all of that stuff.

 that requires extra time and patience, but I'm sure we all agree the outcome is absolutely worth it. 

Dan Woodger: I would love to say I had given that loads of forethought and that it wasn't a happy accident. It was a combination of the two.

I knew that there would be an element of, , if I could bring other people's stories into it, that would make the illustration more rich and interesting. But the unhidden thing that I didn't really consider was that when I was adding in the characters, I would tag them in Instagram, and then they would then be able to share that with their followers, and it almost, , widened the reach.

But it was really lovely to bring in these stories that I could highlight about what other people are doing, so it almost brought, , more people along for the journey. And when I almost, like, brought them- gave them a level of investment in making this work as well, which was really nice. They had invested enough to sponsor, but when they see that their character is now in this too, it almost brings them along for the ride.

Radim: I guess the most important part I need to highlight here that the project wouldn't really have happened if it wasn't for Dan's brother George, who ran the marathon previously and connected with the 

 real story of the real meaning of the marathon, because yes, of course, you get the absolute weapons, the absolute incredible runners who can, cover the distance in a fantastic time. But most of the other runners are there for other reasons.

They're celebrating someone's life, someone's cause, and their stories. I was telling Dan I always admire how people can run the whole thing, like, dressed as a phone box or a dinosaur or a bin or something like that, or an ambulance, because that's a horrendous distance and, the extra weight, extra everything.

But people do it because they do really care. So Dan has kind of connected all of the points together, illustration, running, human stories, charity, but mostly the stories of people who are, in the race for others. So him being able to create all sorts of different characters, more than a couple of hundred in his illustration, showcases why people run, where they come from, and how we can connect with one another.

If you haven't checked out a full interview we've done, would you please do? Because it's amazing always to see how many hidden or how many runners are in a creative sphere that show up as soon as I, publish the episode and shared it on socials. A lot of people showed up and listened to the episode, and 

 it's a truly, remarkable story of when you really go after what you want and, ask all of the questions that you want to ask, remarkable things happen. And I know from a firsthand, for a firsthand account now that Dan, months later after the project, is very much working on the back of the project, getting more commissions, and being mentioned in the interview that, some of the work wasn't coming to him because most of the work is now under NDA.

It's one of the ways of getting yourself seen, being out there and, again, let me repeat the title, No Dare to Ask for What You Want. Thank you for joining me on this bonus episode, and I'll catch you next week.