"I do soul searching every single day. It's not taking weeks of vacation somewhere - it's just a constant process in life." - Itir Eraslan

A deep dive into Itir Eraslan's remarkable journey from textile engineering in Turkey to founding her own marketing agency in New York. 

The conversation explores her 20-year tenure at Nike, the courage to leave corporate life, and her philosophies on time, discipline, and personal growth. Itir shares intimate insights about how losing her father shaped her approach to life and career decisions, while also discussing her balanced perspective on AI in marketing. Her unique approach to structuring work days - working seven days a week but with intentional breaks and mindful practices - offers a fresh perspective on work-life integration. 

The episode also delves into her thoughts on the future of marketing, the role of traditional advertising, and how maintaining a balanced view of technological advancement helps navigate industry changes.

KEY TAKEAWAYS:

• Taking your chosen path seriously is crucial, even if that path might change later
• True discipline is rare and essential for entrepreneurial success
• Recognizing when a role no longer fits ("a small jacket") is key to professional growth
• Soul searching should be an ongoing process, not just a one-time event
• Working alone requires both strong self-discipline and clear boundaries
• Loss and mortality can be powerful motivators for making conscious life choices
• Success in marketing requires balancing expertise with openness to new tools like AI
• Breaks and mindfulness are essential even when working extensively
• Personal trauma and life experiences shape professional decisions more than we realize
• The ability to work alone and maintain discipline are crucial entrepreneurial traits

Mindful Creative: How to understand and deal with the highs and lows of creative life, career and business

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[00:00:00] 

Itir Eraslan: It was one of the best sleeps ever. 

as I approached towards the end of my chapter with Nike, started to build sleep disorders. I was always taking some melatonins and it was really hard for me to fall to sleep and so on. And I was having a lot of headaches as well. And can one person suddenly don't have sleep disorders after one day?

Yes. And it happened on, actually on the day that I decided I gave my resignation. and I left in about four weeks time. And as I gave resignation, I started to sleep better.  

Radim Malinic: [00:01:00] Welcome to Mindful Creative Podcast, a show about understanding how to deal with the highs and lows of creative lives. My name is Radek Malinich and creativity changed my life, but it also nearly killed me. In this season, inspired by my book of the same title, I am talking to some of the most celebrated figures in the creative industry.

In our candid conversations, my guests share their experiences and how they overcame their challenges and struggles, how they learned to grow as creatives. A creative career in the 21st century can be overwhelming. I wanted to capture these honest and transparent conversations that might help you find that guiding light in your career.

Thank you for joining me on this episode and taking the first or next step towards regaining control of your creative life.

Are you ready?

My guest today is a consultant CMO [00:02:00] and a brand strategist living and working in New York City. She helps brands strengthen their identity and helps them scale. during her career, she's been on both sides of product development and marketing and Nike before striking on her own to build her independent consultancy boutique agency.

She also hosts the Marketing Meeting Podcast, exploring emerging marketing trends. courage to lead corporate life and her philosophies on time, discipline, and soul searching. It's my pleasure to introduce Etta Erisland.

Radim Malinic: Iter, it is so nice to have you on the show today. 

Itir Eraslan: for those who might not know, how would you introduce yourself? 

I'm the founder of a boutique, based in New York 

Although I don't like to call it agency too much, but, I'm focused on strategy building and brand identity and marketing management, especially for the brands that are [00:03:00] at the critical growth phase. 

Radim Malinic: I want to know how now you find yourself in New York City, obviously you've got your own studio, or your agency.

And I want to know what's your background? How did you get into this? how does one get into the world of marketing? 

Itir Eraslan: I didn't get into the world of marketing till I was 30, around 30s. I'm actually an engineer, and I'm a textile engineer. And I started working at Nike as a product manager. So I was doing. All the things that product manager does, which is like taking the innovation, sourcing it out to the factories around Europe and, developing the product with the designers and the fabric teams, pricing them out and till shipping it to the stores.

So that's where I started. but after a few years of doing that, I recognized that I wanted to be closer to the customer. and with [00:04:00] that, I approached the sales office at Nike. I was in Turkey back then, and I told them that I want to be a part of the sales organization because I want to be closer to the customers.

The reason that I wanted to be closer to the customer. is that I do a lot of sports and I feel that if I'll be close to the customer, which is the athletes in Nike, say every person is an athlete that I would be able to bring more value for, and it's also sounded quite fun at that time, but there was no I didn't have any intention to be a marketer or I didn't have any intention to be a salesperson or whatever.

I just wanted to be closer to the customer, just to have more fun because I'm also a customer of Nike. that's where I started working in the retail team because there was an opening at the retail team and there was one person who was interested to have me on board. And I did merchandising, [00:05:00] visual merchandising, even, and store planning.

And, then I moved to retail expansion, which involves like a new store analysis, finding the new stores, finding new partners. And from there, which involves a lot of strategic thinking, and from there, at one point I found myself in the marketing team.I started working with a very nice person, Massimo Cimco.

he's my first boss at Nike who helped me get into marketing. so since then I'm doing marketing and, about seven years ago at my 20th year at Nike. I decided that I wanna leave, for some specific reasons. And then seven years ago I founded my own company and since then I'm working for myself.

Excellent. there's so much to untake there. how does one get into product was you say textile engineering . 

It was so popular at that time. I knew that I wanted to be an engineer because I was not. really good at social studies,[00:06:00] geography, history. I didn't like any of those.

That's why I picked engineering because I like math, science and so on. And then when I think about engineering, there were a few popular things. One of them was textile engineering at that time in Turkey, because I was based in Turkey, there's too much textile production. I want to be an industrial engineer.

I had two options and I want textile engineering and I'm really happy that I did. 

Radim Malinic: it's brought you to where you are today and I think it's a fascinating story. So was your sort of choice of university degree, cause did you do that as a degree? 

Itir Eraslan: Ah, yes. 

Radim Malinic: So was your choice of university degree based on pragmatic reasons or was it based on curiosity How did you base it? 

Itir Eraslan: think at that age, you are not really sure what to do. but I find it nice for a few reasons, there was no rational reason behind it. For example, GAP used to have their own offices [00:07:00] in Istanbul, in Turkey. And the building that they had their own offices was a very nice building in the heart of Istanbul.

It was very modern and I loved GAP as a brand. And I thought that if I get graduated from university, from textile engineering, I would be working in GAP as a textile person. and some other reasons just like that. and there is no rationale behind it. It's just like trying to fit into an identity.

at that age. butI knew myself, I was not a really, A grade student working too much and so on. I was working and I was like a medium, middle level student. but the reason that I was not like the top of this class is because that maybe I don't know, I didn't have a significant IQ or whatever, but I was also doing lots of sports, I was at the volleyball team, I was at the, dancing team and so on.

Because of all these personal [00:08:00] interactions and social interactions and cultural things, I couldn't study too much and I was like,normal students, but the thing is that,about me at that time and which still keeps on going is not that I pick textile or I'm a marketer now or whatever.

If I'm task, I really get motivated and finish the task with, whatever. I can't do it. I put myself into it. I, really take it seriously.that's why probably I love sports. 

Radim Malinic: So with your time as a product manager, did you get involved in the manufacturing and design of those parts?

Itir Eraslan: Very much involved. I was even doing, because the factories that we were producing, there were some compliance Checkpoints and, every product manager has to know how to check a factory compliance issues. So whenever I do a factory visit, I was also checking if there is like a underage worker or those type of things.[00:09:00] 

So I was really heavily involved in production. like I was, I even, remember checking the color cards based on the fabrics that came from development and deciding if it's off color or on color or so on. It's just like a very hands on textile thing. But I want to add something there because when I was around 20s when I picked textile engineering and I wanted to work in GAP one day at this beautiful building in Istanbul, which is not beautiful, at all now.

And also the brand is not that inspirational, but I was not like, Oh, I don't know what I'm going to do. I'm just going to do this. And then later on decides what I'm going to, I was not in that mood. I was very, determined about my choices. I was like, I'm going to be a textile engineer. And once I'm a textile engineer, I was just like, I'm going to work at GAP or something similar to GAP.

So it was like, I was really determined about my decision. That's why, nowadays, for example, I'm really [00:10:00] determined about my path.founding an agency, growing an agency in New York. But I know that in two years time, this path might shift to something else. And then I know that I'll be determined to that path again.

So this is something that I would like to say, because if you take it less seriously, if you say that, Oh, I'm going to decide in two years, three years, I don't know what I'm doing right now. Then it means that you are not paying enough attention to the path that you are taking. I think that's also something that I'm also saying to my nieces, saying to someone, if someone asks my opinion, I'm just like, okay, your,choices might change, but just make sure that the path that you take, you take it seriously.

Radim Malinic: So you're now the person who's asking the question, who do you want to be? How seriously are you taking it? So this is you going back and repeating the cycle.it's interesting. You said yeah, if you're not paying focus, if you're not paying attention, then you're off the path.

I think that's [00:11:00] interesting because it makes sense. It truly makes sense.

from being a product manager to be closer to the customer, the athlete, because it's more fun. How did the word fun appear?

Because sometimes customers or athletes or people might be the opposite of fun. So what was the drive? what was the connection there? 

Itir Eraslan: I'm trying to think about the rationale behind it, why I was thinking that this fun, but at that time, the sales teams were going to all these sales meetings and they were sharing a lot of pictures and nice videos like recaps, because that's what marketing is, right?

Like motivational. speech conferences, and it looked like they were having fun. that's the first reason, because within an organization, I'm the one who is going to the factory and then you know, doing security checks, checking the fabrics, the apparel, and eating [00:12:00] the factory food.

Whereas I was seeing my friends at the sales office. They were like in Marbella in Spain, enjoying sun and then watching, an inspirational athlete talking on the stage. So that's one of the reasons that I thought that sales and marketing are having fun. But the other thing is that's. I always had fun when I was doing or watching sports.

so I thought that if I be closer to the customer than I should really feel, inflow, rather than being on the production side of the business. 

Radim Malinic: I always think that maybe I've formed my question from a negative perspective, thinking are you really sure about the word fun? Because when you just described, it was so aspirational thinking.

Yes, of course. Yeah. That's what I wanted to do because you were driving with your eyes open. You're like, this is what I want to do. Because. again, your path that you know, you talk about as what you've learned [00:13:00] through sometimes not as fun work, what the factories in China, or was it in Turkey or?

Itir Eraslan: In Turkey, in Europe, in Israel, in, many parts of Europe. And especially I was responsible for the production in Israel. they were producing more high tech products and shipping to us. I was trying to think of that. Yeah. 

Radim Malinic: So we were traveling a lot, obviously, like you were picking up the knowledge of like how the product is made, what can be of color?

Because I think when you graduate on that level of, okay, I'm going to go into sales or I'm going into marketing, the baseline, how the product is made, things about a product that sometimes people who have far too much fun and listening to beautiful keynote speeches, be like, yeah.

It's it, how is this stuff done? And what do we need to know? I think like that makes your, what I call the armor or the skillset, the knowledge so much richer because you are building on this because,I know it from a similar perspective, because, I think you want to put in, a story where a friend of mine was made, a restaurant manager for a famous chain.

And he was made to be like a managing director, but they [00:14:00] put him in a kitchen because next four months, he had to do everything from ground up just to understand every part of the business, how it all works, because if anything goes wrong, you know how to fix it. So I think the way you grown into the company sounds great.

And yeah, I just love that, the word fun is actually about the real richness of the company and, his beliefs and messaging about, bringing this to athletes. you're going, going up, up, up all the way to the exit door, more or less. obviously Nike's got its own story at the moment where they've tried to do lots of various things and losing their market share and the ground.

did you see the writing on the wall? if we can talk about it, did you see the writing on the wall or was it just, were you just finished with the ladder, being rested on a, just a one direction wall. 

Itir Eraslan: there were a few reasons that I left. Some of them were personal because, and some of them were related to the approach of the company.

so it's just it goes all hand in hand, let's [00:15:00] say. the top reason that I left was, The company gives you a jacket, which means like they give you responsibility, they give you budget, they give you, also some, a title. and then that jacket got smaller and smaller for me as I grow.

And when I was, that jacket was not enough for me. and I asked for a bigger jacket and I took the new ones and it's all again grow smaller and smaller to me and I wanted to do more, but the landscape of the business and also that's where the company, dynamics got into place. It didn't allow me to get a bit bigger jacket and I recognized that if I push this path too much, I won't be happy.

I was getting, sad and sad every single year. I was working more, but I was having less fun, let's say. That fun is always my, I [00:16:00] think criteria when I approach the business. And also I was losing my passion a bit. So that's where I decided that if this jacket is small for me and if the company is giving, not giving it to me, I don't need to stay here and then blame others.

I should just take my path, own path and leave. and that. That was the best decision that I have given, actually. and I gave enough time to Nike also saying that I'm planning to leave, but I don't want to leave. And because I want a better role, I want a bigger role. I want a bigger jacket.

And then they were not able to provide that jacket within that time frame. then I said, that's okay, no. bad feelings. I still love the brand. I still love the team, but I am leaving. So that was the decision. 

Radim Malinic: Do you remember the first day when you left? What did it feel like?

Itir Eraslan: It was one of the best sleeps ever. 

[00:17:00] as I approached towards the end of my chapter with Nike, started to build sleep disorders. I was always taking some melatonins and it was really hard for me to fall to sleep and so on. And I was having a lot of headaches as well. And can one person suddenly don't have sleep disorders after one day?

Yes. And it happened on, actually on the day that I decided I gave my resignation. and I left in about four weeks time. And as I gave resignation, I started to sleep better. 

Radim Malinic: That is fascinating. That is utterly, utterly fascinating because you can really pinpoint the stress towards the work. So you're like, just got rid of that, what's called a burden, like you just get rid of the responsibility and slept properly.

So yeah, When you were feeling stressed, and when you were, taking melatonin and feeling the heaviness of the [00:18:00] work, did you always know it? Or did you just go with it? Were you just too busy to actually say, Oh, this is making me ill, or this is making me sleepless, insomniac?

did you know it? or was it only after you've given, the notice, did you realize that was all of the sort of causes? 

Itir Eraslan: was quite aware of the things that make me sad and stressed out. I was completely aware of many of the things, but I wasn't aware that the sleep problem, for example, was because of my old job.

Only then once I left and I saw that I no longer have any sleep problems. And as a child, I never had any sleep problems, I recognized that, Oh my God, This was so obvious.and then I, since then I'm just taking melatonins only if I travel to my home for seven, eight hours, just to avoid the jet lags.

I take it because I just don't want to get jet lag. That's the reason. but I was [00:19:00] aware that things were not going well. I have quite a lot of self conscious, but I couldn't take any action till the 18 year mark at Mackay. Yeah. 

Radim Malinic: So when you were leaving Nike, did you know where you were going?

Was it just a sort of blank piece of paper? Empty road? Like anywhere? Or did you already pre plan? What was your next move? 

Itir Eraslan: I didn't plan.it was a very fast decision. I didn't get fired. so it was pre planned. me telling the company that this is the time that I'm living. and just they made it easy for me.

and I had no clue, but the first day I had a few options. I was like thinking about a few things and I never saw myself as an entrepreneur. I always thought that I was going to be in corporate.but when I started talking to people that I'm planning to leave, because I had a four weeks time between the time that I gave my resignation till I left.

And I started talking to people and to people [00:20:00] very close to me.and saying that I'm planning to leave. This is still a bit, it's not announced yet and so on. And then those people that are very close to me started to.bring me some job saying that's. We have this company. We need help. We need marketing help.

since you don't know what to do now, would you want to help us? And it's just I left Nike at 31st of July and 1st of August, I was already having two projects in hand. Of course, these are not the projects probably I, will take right now because they were like smaller scope projects, but I didn't care.

was fine, doing anything. And that's how it started without any stop. 

Radim Malinic: that's a great sign when you start on your own and the phone is ringing. Obviously you've got something to do because it's almost like planets align like It's meant to be because there's so much fear about changing lanes and so much change, so much fear about [00:21:00] making a pivot.

But it's only when you do it, when you actually follow your heart and you follow your soul, you're like, Oh, I was meant to do this. And actually I'm happy to leave this behind because, is it too easy to wed yourself to a wrong solution? Maybe it is, so you said you didn't see yourself as an entrepreneurial person.

But here you are, you're making it work. So do we overthink it? Do we think that we know something of, we are something that we shouldn't be? Like, do we overthink it?

Itir Eraslan: Yeah, we sometimes overthink it. I don't want to say to people, just jump to the sea and then you're going to find your path. But I did deliberately for two, three years, I did lots of soul searching.I tried so many different types of, experiences. Like I, went to acting classes. I went to a sabbatical in New York where I started learning new dance styles and so on.

I was just soul searching and soul searching, reading books [00:22:00] about, career change, what I'm going to do in life. And when you look at my library, which is now a library in our summer house, since I couldn't move the books to here, but It's just like that phase is so obvious. It's just like all the personal development books are over there.

And when I work on books, I really work on them. if there's like a, exercise at the end of the book, I do them. I mentioned, if I do something, I do it really. so that's why that's soul searching, I think, helps me identify. the possible paths that I can take and maybe probably build some confidence.

But also the same attitude when I left college and I started working as a textile engineer and I took it so serious at that time. I was like, These two projects that has been handed over to me at day one. I'm going to do it the best I can and then I'll see how it goes on the road. and that's my attitudes.

I think that's [00:23:00] helped. But what I would. suggest to people, especially if someone asked me, I should I start a new business or whatever? Should I leave corporate? I asked them two questions. Are you okay to work alone? That's the first question because people hate that. And are you disciplined enough?

And when they say, Oh yeah, I'm quite disciplined and so on. And I really questioned that answer. Because I'm a very extremely self disciplined person and sometimes to the extremes, which it should be a little bit less, a little bit less extreme in my opinion. And I still find myself sometimes going off the path and I need to get myself together and so on.

And if I struggle about discipline a person like this, I think that's also a very important checkpoint if you want to go to the entrepreneurial world. But I think you should answer this question better than I do. you are doing this for so many [00:24:00] years.

Radim Malinic: mean, I can, answer your two questions.

am I happy to work alone? Yes, I am. I disciplined? I am now, but I was not disciplined for a very long time.I was good at getting the job done but I was breaking other things whilst I was fixing something else whilst I was making something else. So for me, it was always like who shouts louder gets the job done first, And then whoever's not pushing, I'll do that thing in two weeks time. So I was always in the moment. But I was determined, I was not disciplined, but I was determined, I was devoted and determined to actually get a job done. Whereas now in my older age,it's more about discipline.

It's absolutely, I know almost every minute of every day what's going to happen, how is it going to happen. And that beautiful feeling of actually knowing that predictability, that you know that you're going to get your exercise done in the first thing in the morning, that you're going to do this with the kids, you're going to have time for that.

You've got time for everything because we spend so much time talking about work life balance. But we don't [00:25:00] make it work. Like we just go, I wish it was working. what are you doing for it? Not much. Just hoping and moaning. I'm like, okay, yeah.

So when you said, if someone says I'm disciplined and you say, I question that answer, it's just, that must be the biggest bullshit in the world, because I'm disciplined. Let's be honest.I know lots of very, very successful people and. they're more devoted and obsessed and disciplined because if they were disciplined, we would not burn out.

we would have happier, happier relationships. We're happier families. We would have happier relationships to our body. So the discipline I think comes with the headspace that when you get more time to think and observe and understand, which is an ongoing progress, that's where we get better.

And I know that when you say I'm disciplined, I believe you because, the way. You get everything done and have you come across on, let's say, on LinkedIn and how you do things. There's an aura and there's a sense of, sort of peaceful sense in the middle of a chaos. I think those two questions are absolute gold for [00:26:00] people, if they want to go on their own. 

Itir Eraslan: Yeah. I had this friend who's working at Coca Cola. She's very good at working there. And then, she's going growing up the weather and so on. And she was like, okay, I just want to explore if there's another world after Coca Cola.

I'm just using the company name. It's okay, because I have so many friends in Coca Cola.but then I questioned these things like, are you disabled? And she was like, no. Oh, probably I'm going to sleep till 10 a. m. in the morning if there was no pressure of going to the office. And then, it was already telling the story for her.

she's really good because there is a corporate pressure and she's now like at the GM level. but when I asked in a very friendly environment while we are having some drinks and it's a chilled environment and so on, and she's very close to me and she was like, Oh, probably, yes, you're right. I will be probably.

Sleeping till 10, and going out at night, and so yeah. 

Radim Malinic: It's interesting, again I think this goes [00:27:00] back to your soul searching, because again, I use this word a lot in some of these answers, maybe related to how I was in that age. it was quite mature. way of looking at the situation like soul searching.

Again, that's something maybe I will talk about, but I have done zero, official in my life. I've, not officially. I'm sure I've done lots of soul searching, but I never had a label for it. I was maybe busy doing it. Maybe some of the book writing is soul searching per se, but Soul searching has never been mentioned on this podcast. Like people have done lots of things to do, but none of them went I've got a plan. But what you do is that you are disciplined. So you were like, this is my plan. Maybe Stefan Sagmeister, his sabbaticals were soul searching. they were planned.

Obviously they still happen and he's on one of them right now. But there's lots of people who say, I don't have a plan. Oh, I never had a plan. And we are proud of not having a plan at first. look, this is just happening. Then you realize. It could have [00:28:00] been easier if I had a plan, wouldn't it?

So your soul searching seemed to me like with your, reading and your inner learnings that was a sort of formation of a plan of what's going to happen next. 

Itir Eraslan: I don't know, that's the main reason that I'm doing this soul searching thing or so on because I am aware that my time here is limited.

it started by the time that I lost my dad at the age of 20 and he was really close to me and it was like a year battle seeing him die every day because of cancer.and back then, for 20 years, since he passed away for years ago, I thought that I didn't have any traumas and I was okay with that.

I was really sad. But. The other day I was thinking I actually had quite a lot of trauma because of that, because I still miss him so much. And most of the things that I do right now is motivated by the fact that [00:29:00] he's somewhere watching it. Can it be the case, it's been 25 years and he still has, that much of influence in my life.

And that loss, big loss, very big loss in my 20 years of age, made me recognize that this can end any day. Or, I can lose my mom any day, I can lose my sister any day, or I can even die myself any day. So it's just like that consciousness about the time, the age, and health, that is, it can go away just in a minute time, make those conscious choices.

sometimes it's a little bit depressing, to be honest, to be that conscious about the the fact that life is passing away and it can end anytime, but it's always helps me ask this question. Is this it that you want to do? Or are you aiming for something else in this life? So that's why I always wanted to, like at [00:30:00] the age of 21, 22, it's the first time that I came to New York.

And I knew at that time I wanted to live here one day. And that's why I moved here two years ago, because it's the time that I was able to do that physically and financially. all these things, I think that's probably why I'm so determined to make things happen about life and that's probably one of the reasons that I'm doing this.

doing soul searching, in a regular basis. But it's not like I'm taking like two, three weeks of vacation every time and I'm going somewhere and I'm doing soul searching, but it's just like a constant process in life. I do soul searching every single day. I can tell. 

Radim Malinic: I think I remember seeing a picture that you posted on LinkedIn about maybe your dad's last day when you guys went to the beach and then it was this sort of heartfelt story that was beautiful that you put it actually for everyone to see because I think there's more openness about [00:31:00] our experiences.

I think we are more open to share things that not just, start with, I'm proud to announce I've just joined XYZ as a marketing manager. like I think that thing should die a death because the more we put all of our soul out there and more of our sort of intentions and the way how we operate.

and Liv, shall I say, not Off Parade, but Liv, it's makes us more connected because it's the stories that, can almost feel them through someone else's, post. you mentioned time and you mentioned that sort of feeling that time is limited and that was actually only wrote one word for this conversation prior, which is time.

how much of a, How much of an impact does the time have on your day to day being? have time to enjoy things? that's maybe a wrong question, but like, how hard is it to stay in the present by being aware of the bigger picture? like do you allow yourself to get lost in the process or how much distraction can the mortality have in [00:32:00] your day to day work and life?

Itir Eraslan: I'm not sure if I'm doing it really good around this time, because as we started it, we were not recording at that time. I'm working literally seven days a week, but the construction of a day in that week is not like I start like 7 a. m. and I, shut the, computer around 9 p.

m.I opened the laptop at 7 a. m. and I closed at 9 p. m. The laptop is opened and closed a couple of times during the day because I started by reading a book and writing something. That's the day always starts with like meditation, writing and a book. But this is my flow. it doesn't need to be anyone else's flow.

That's how I, feel really happy and in the mood.and then I start working and then I go to the gym during the day, so there's blocks of breaks that I go for a walk. And today, for [00:33:00] example, I went for a walk at 6am in the morning because it was so beautiful and was still dark and people still, running on along the shore and so on.

It was so beautiful. But then, during the day I had some other breaks as well. I went to the market and so on. So it's just yes, I work a lot, but I have this mindful breaks in between the day because I know myself that after two hours of focused work, I have to give a break of around like half an hour, one hour.

So I cannot work like five hours straight. I don't know if anyone can does that, but I cannot do that. I cannot do also Zoom meetings more than two hours. That's my limit. Some people does that. but I don't know if that answered your question. 

Radim Malinic: It answered part of my question. Absolutely. I think you allow yourself to be present because I think if you were, let's say 20 years younger, you could do twice as much of three times as much.

And because you were just accepted as [00:34:00] a part of the process, whereas Now, being aware of the fact that, you know what, I can do two hours and just go away and actually do things when you feel like them,that's a great way to have it because, we can actually maybe lean back on a precedent of actually knowing what it was like to work nine to five, every day or nine to nine every day.

Whereas, I think because we appreciate the breaks, we appreciate the time that we can actually metabolize things and do stuff. But when you talk about time, it reminded me of a book by Oliver Bergman called 4, 000 Weeks. and you tell people it's 000 weeks and people go, is that all? I'm thinking, that's quite a few, right?

I never thought we'd live, not if you live to 80, you've got 4, 000 weeks. And when you think of it from that perspective, when you really want to do everything really well with every single week, that seems like a lot of effort because if you want to waste it, that seems so much easier.

I'm not going to do anything. Whereas when you go to a meeting [00:35:00] of, ambitious people, we almost feel like sometimes we don't. celebrate enough of our achievements because you're like, I could have still done a bit more. Like I still have an extra hour there. I could have extra done this and I could have extra done that.

So with your time, I know that you, for example, currently number your LinkedIn posts with weeks. So like week 38, week 39. And yeah, so does it ever get scary when you realize shit, it's October.

Itir Eraslan: Yeah, it's sometimes feels like that. but I don't know if it stresses me or not. Sometimes it stresses me that time is really flying fast. but yeah, I don't know what to say now about this. Sometimes it stresses me. Sometimes it doesn't. I 

Radim Malinic: can tell you that sometimes I just realize actually it's October.

I'm thinking, Oh, I thought it was, I thought it was April. sometimes you just get so lost in time because you're busy. What do you mean it's October? 

Itir Eraslan: think a few weeks ago I was talking to my [00:36:00] mom and, because we have our summer house where we loved going to summer house and I thought at one point, I didn't share this with her and how many summers does she has, I don't know.

If we are lucky, four or five. She's, she's not old, but she has cancer. and a serious form of cancer. So it's just if we have four and five, then it means like I need to plan these summers very, very nicely. And I need to, that's why, for example, I know that she's going to come to New York in June and I already planned it just like German people, they plan it a year ahead.

But it's just I started doing longer term plans because of that, because. Counting it based on the summers that is left is a disruptive approach, even for us. like how many summers? Probably you have. We have. we are at the same age. It's just like 30 maybe. And already one is gone.

So yeah, feels a bit [00:37:00] depressive, but it also makes you just take some risks. some story to your new book then. 

Radim Malinic: Absolutely. I do, guest lectures for mostly young students and I speak to mature creatives, as a sort of the, polar side.

And it's like, How do you inspire people, which is the wrong way to say it, like, how do you motivate people to actually want to go out and actually risk something and actually do something that might scare them? Because we all dream about change. We all dream about things, like we, we want stuff that sometimes is a little bit too far to be achieved or to be reached.

And the difference between It being done is sometimes so little, it's just a mindset. So yeah, thinking about from like, how do you give that urgency to people? Because it feels sometimes, times feel so wasteful. I think that's the question of like, how do you do it? so let's go back from mortality and our limited time, back to marvelous marketing, if it's all [00:38:00] right.

yeah, so you have seen lots of changes throughout your career so far. And the changes are happening thick and fast again. So I know that your fantastic podcast marketing meeting has been quite heavily focused on AI because that's very much the presence of our lives. so what have you seen change?

What have excited you? What has scared you recently? let's say if you were to summarize marketing to someone who's never heard of marketing, how would you describe it? Do you want to summarize it and like where it's been and where is it going? 

Itir Eraslan: I know it's since 15 years, 16 years, let's say, and I was not a marketer before that.

but I feel that the big agency creatives, ad creation, TV ads, and big budget ads, they are what actually defines marketing. So if you ask any person around you what marketing does, they probably said ads, right? Like ads is a big thing, and that's the thing [00:39:00] that consumes the most budget in the marketing team.

I think that's shifting a lot. I'm not gonna say that ads are over. I don't think so. but the form of the ads that we are seeing, meaning that the platforms, the formats and, the things that we learned about ads will probably change. But the thing about the notion about ads, meaning that something is promoted and it's delivered to you by some kind of a promotion is probably gonna continue, meaning that.

It can be something like you open generative AI, you ask a question, and the answers that you got from there are not generated by completely objective, evaluation of the web, like the big web, but it's you know, filters through the lens that some brands are putting some ads. So I'm expecting, for example, ads to start showing up in [00:40:00] generative AI in that world.

Or for example, the other day, a creative, director friend of mine was saying, why are brands doing ads like that? And he's in the ad business, right? And I was just like, because shared that I can add a foot. big company, big FMCG company. And I said, okay, what do you think about this?

I want to get his thoughts. And he was like, I don't know what I want to think about it. But the question that he told me, why do you think people are doing these ads like this? like some people are acting there's like a story behind it and people are watching it. And it's like a 60 seconds and so made up.

And it doesn't interest me at all anymore. And hearing that, I'm just like, yeah, why are people doing 60 second ads to be promoted in a TV or in like wherever plays in social media doesn't matter. Maybe that might change, in the future, but again, going back to the same question, that doesn't mean [00:41:00] that the ad business will die.

It's probably going to change format. And the thing about brands is. It's hard to answer this question, actually, because, I don't want to give declarative like big statements of brands like this will win or so on.some brands will die probably in this age of AI. And some brands will not die.

That's all I can say. But back to your question about AI, is, I'm not scared. Because, if things change or so on, we'll see how it happens, but I'm not in a position to be too enthusiastic or too excited about AI or I'm not in the position of being too pessimistic about AI because just an hour ago I was exchanging thoughts with AI on a messaging that I'm working for a client.

And the answers. that I see there helped me so much because I work alone, but some of the [00:42:00] answers are really just doesn't make sense. But some of the answers really helped me shift some thoughts.but the thing is that not any marketer can take those answers. and put it into action because now I need to decide, okay, here are the, suggestions of the messaging.

I have a new copy. I instructed my new copywriter to come up with a new copy. That's there. But then how are we using this copy? Is it going to be on the website? Is it going to be on social? Is it going to be on the white paper or so on? Then that's my expertise comes in. So I see it as like a Nice support desk or thought partner, but I'm not expecting too much from that as a thought partner.

yeah, I'm, more in an objective state of mind when it comes to AI. And I think I'm no longer interviewing so much people about AI because I was so curious about what's going to happen [00:43:00] because people are either too optimistic or too pessimistic about AI. there's no one sitting in the middle.

It's just okay, we'll see what's going to happen. It's just like some people are picking like sites on this, which I don't like. That's why I just didn't want to give like a general big statement about what's going on and what's going to happen in marketing because anything can happen. We're going to see.

Radim Malinic: So you've decided to be in the middle. I like it. I'm happy to join you in the middle because I think the arrival of generative AI was met with such panic because it felt like it arrived out of nowhere. Of course it was bubbling under the surface for a long time. we were tagging our faces on Facebook going, Hey, this is me in this photo.

Like we were helping machine learning for so long. There wasn't so many things. And then we just gave it a re, marketing reworded it to, Oh, it's AI. Oh shit. Like this is artificial intelligence, because I think, I can't remember who was the writer who [00:44:00] once said that to a primitive mind, intelligence seems like a conspiracy.

And, when you put them on intelligence, artificial intelligence, it can feel like a conspiracy. And of course there's a lot of stuff that's going on, data scraping on a mass scale that's happening right now, because it's, a commercial advantage. Like someone making this stuff.

It's not like we have all joint sources, between all the countries to produce one model that will have someone that will help us all. centralized thing certain people doing certain things. But as you quite beautifully described, you said, I was having an exchange with AI about ideas because I work alone.

And I did something similar when I was writing one of these books, Mindful Creative, and was like, how does the world see this problem? what is the average of seeing this problem? Because I kind of realized it's nice to write things from the first point of view, like from my view, but when I opened the book, I Claude.

I was like, Oh, [00:45:00] okay. Claude, like what can we do here? like, how do you see it? can I have outside opinion? Because a friend of mine calls AI, it's like an intern, it'll give you stuff back. It's not very good.

You need to clean it up, but it's getting better and more interesting. And I've had so many conversations on this podcast with, with, some celebrated people in the industry and those who work on their expression, their work on their, creativity. don't feel frightened. In fact, they use it as a tool for help.

it's something that, moves the needle forward, moves the process forward. And I think this is, the exciting part because we can't deny it. Like we never really were threatened, Oh shit, we've got Macs now. Like the people with whatever, we're going to be threatened because it's the progress.

And I think. What scares people is how fast it's happening because yeah, we're doubling up, every so often. And it just feels Oh, what do we do? 

Itir Eraslan: Yeah. And also if you are really active in marketing, for example, last week we were having this creative review [00:46:00] with two or three people that are really Creative people, right?

like we had had comments and we saw it at different places and then another creative person came in and showed something else. And we were like, Oh, yes, this is going to change it. And the creative change after the fourth eye and thinking about that, if Four, three people that are completely big experts in this area are going through a loop and some other person, the fourth person comes in and still delivers, still is able to deliver a much better perspective than it means, I don't think that AI would be able to do that.

Probably AI would, can be the fifth person, but It really requires, if you are doing marketing work and creative work, it really requires like some kind of expertise, long years of experience, thinking differently, and it shifts. I don't think there's like the aha moment too much when you are [00:47:00] working with AI.

I said too much because sometimes it happens. It's just aha, I didn't think about that. that's a good perspective. I don't see it as an intern only. Sometimes it acts like a real good insightful source resource, but sometimes it's just even worse than. a junior intern, it's just like the expectations.

What do you expect from it or not? Yeah, 

Radim Malinic: I think the juxtaposition of expectation is that we were expecting it not to do very well or just give it very little and expect very lots to come back because when you feed it the right questions, you get sometimes very, very good answers.

if you were to think about something like this, even 10 years ago, Hey, you'll feed, just some prompts into a machine or into software and it'll come back and give you actually quite good writing.

You're like, nah, that's never going to happen. Like we need that solved. But like with the intern, if you ask them, if you teach them how to ask good questions. They will start putting things together and through pattern recognition and realizing actually we can do it that way. We can do [00:48:00] this.

No, this is, because sometimes that fresh mind. is very, very helpful just as you described, because if you are, if you get product focused people that are snow blind to all of it, then they just think it would be finetting sort of echo chamber. So yeah, I think it's a really good example, but is there any particular tools that you use on a day to day basis or you would recommend that, are quite helpful to your workload?

Itir Eraslan: When it comes to generative AI, I use ChatGPT and I, Previously, I recently did the, my first own GPT and I called it my thought partner. it's just like I've had anything about my business and so on and it's helped.cause I was working on some messaging and I was, I also asked it to say, okay, shall I call my agency an agency, a boutique, a company, a firm?

And then, all these, thinking, but I use some other tools, but they, for example, I use, Crunchbase when I'm [00:49:00] looking for a podcast guest or for a new client. And I know that Crunchbase has. an AI algorithm in the back. but in terms of generative AI, it's only ChatGPT. I tried Perpexality.

I, sometimes do, Google, but still it's ChatGPT is the one that I use the most. 

Radim Malinic: Yeah, that's an interesting answer. I had someone calling me and they said I've got a problem with my order. Okay, I run a couple of online shops.

Like which one is it? She's like,I've got some shampoos. I'm like, Definitely not me. Oh, but you're this and you're that, but this is your number. I'm like, okay. It's like, how did you get my number? She's Oh, I was Google and Google gave me this number. And it was a Gemini totally made up like, Oh, brand new is the parent company of Masters of Brands.

And this is their number. I was like, the top and the bottom is right, but the middle bit is not. So it was like, Again, we just rely on this to be perfect, and it's nowhere perfect at all. I think in some [00:50:00] ways it's like, in a way, dangerous, because have we, Have you made people believe that AI is there for the answers and they would take it and just use it because, say you use Crunchbase to look, for clients and podcast hosts.

Some people ask who's the best branding designer and you get like a preset answers. That they're not necessarily based on people's particular skills, they're just because those people might have more data on the system, so would you become more popular with, the answer just because you've got more SEO, or more pages on your website.

So I think that seems quite scary. And, I'm a big fan of Rory Sutherland, who. was talking about how the future of basically online search is going to be AI assistant. give me a best toaster. And I'd be like, again, here's a piece of shit toaster that's got the most SEO ranking and must be more information on the AI platform going to be suggested over something, which is actually a lot better because currently we're still doing it with humans.

there's a website in the UK called [00:51:00] which. And they go and they test the Hoovers and they test the Toasters and they do the product research diligently and unbiased. Whereas if you have something that doesn't know what his name is, and then you feed lots of data that has been scrapped from websites, makes you a bit worried about the future.

It's are we going to get out of all of this? 

Itir Eraslan: It's also like I have a client, my first client actually, one of the first projects that I had, they are doing chatbots. So they are in this AI business for so many years. And then when I talk to him, he says we are in this business and we are doing it really good, but still human beings wants to talk to humans because chatbots are not there yet.

They cannot solve the problems. Still, you do like big sentiment analysis and so on, but it's still just not. ready to replace humans. But what he says is that where AI is useful in those type of things, people will still have call centers. But when someone [00:52:00] calls a call center, the person already sees through the filter of AI, the possibilities, the possible questions that might come up.

And if someone like chatbot actually in the back is giving a direction to the call center person. So it's not like we are talking to the chatbot to solve a problem, it's actually we are talking still to a human, but that human is taking, some guidance from the chatbot itself. So that's, I think, still there's too many things that needs to evolve, till we see a big human resource change probably in the world of marketing, in my opinion.

Radim Malinic: So we started this conversation with the word fun. 

Itir Eraslan: Oh yeah. And time. 

Radim Malinic: And time. do you see yourself having fun in your time with your work? 

Itir Eraslan: Yes. probably that's why I'm working on weekends because I like it.but, I know and I'm conscious [00:53:00] that I need to inject some more fun into it because I'm doing it too much.

And I know that if I do this too much, which means work too much, sooner or later, I'm not going to have fun. So that's why I'm conscious about, the fact that I need to inject some more personal time. in between the working hours. 

Radim Malinic: I really enjoy learning about you a lot more. I've obviously, we've known each other for a while, but, I was really excited about joining the dots of how, obviously, how you got to where you are today and learning more about you as a person, because it's, giving me an idea of What goes behind the mind of someone who's so determined dedicated to their work and wants to strive and succeed. And yeah, sorry to hear about your mom, like how that influences the approach to life and sometimes beneath those. These sort of earth shattering events in our lives to [00:54:00] actually realize that, you know what, let's take it seriously.

Let's do it right. Because when you look back, I think it's a, it's a good way to see everything that you've created. So thank you for sharing this all of this with me today. 

Itir Eraslan: Thank you for, inviting me to your, show and giving me the opportunity to speak about my personal and also my business life, which is also a personal life.

Radim Malinic: You're welcome. 

Hey, thank you for listening to this episode of Mindful Creative Podcast. I'd love to know your thoughts, questions, or even suggestions, so please get in touch via the show notes or social channels. This episode was produced and presented by me, Radim Malanich. Editing and audio production was masterfully done by Niall Mackay from Seven Million Bikes podcast, and the theme music was written and produced by Jack James.

Thank you, and I hope to see you on the next episode.

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