"Working in magazines is an incredible privilege, with access to artists and thinkers."
Nicola Hamilton, an editorial designer based in Toronto, Canada, shares her journey into editorial design and her passion for magazines. She started her post-secondary education in fine arts and cultural studies before transferring into a graphic design program. Nicola fell in love with editorial design during her studies and turned all her graduating portfolio projects into magazine projects. She then interned at a studio in Toronto and later joined The Grid, a weekly alternative city magazine, where she worked as a designer.
Nicola eventually opened Issues Magazine Shop, a store in Toronto that supports independent magazines and keeps print alive. Nicola Hamilton, the founder of the magazine shop 'Type Books' in Toronto, discusses the importance of community and information sharing in the magazine industry. She emphasizes the need to include all facets of magazine making, from writers and editors to designers and illustrators. Hamilton also shares her passion for supporting independent publishers and creating platforms for stories that aren't being told in commercial media.
She envisions a future where there is more support for independent magazine publishers through initiatives like a magazine incubator. Hamilton believes that the fundamentals of graphic design will remain the same, but the job titles and technologies will continue to evolve.
Takeaways
Mindful Creative: How to understand and deal with the highs and lows of creative life, career and business
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Radim Malinic: hi, Nicola. It's my great pleasure to have you on the show. How are you doing today?
Nicola Hamilton: I am doing so well today. Thanks for asking.
Radim Malinic: Thank you. [00:02:20] Thank you for coming on. normally I'll always go on a record to say, this is my friend and we've met here, we've met there, but you and I haven't met. We haven't met in person just yet, even though we [00:02:30] were a few meters away at the last event in Design Thinkers in Toronto. So I've jumped at the opportunity to actually, speak to you.
A bit more, properly, and I just want to know [00:02:40] everything about what you do. So for those who don't know you, would you like to introduce yourself for us?
Nicola Hamilton: Sure. So my name's Nicola Hamilton, and I'm an editorial designer based in [00:02:50] Toronto, Canada. I work on publications like Best Health, Serviette Magazine, which is an independent food title, and a handful of others. I'm also the president of [00:03:00] RGD, which is the Association of Registered Graphic Designers here in Canada.
We host a conference twice a year called Design Thinkers that you spoke at not long ago. And then [00:03:10] I also own a magazine store in Toronto called Issues Magazine Shop. So we exist to support the people in projects keeping print [00:03:20] alive.
Radim Malinic: I want to know how do you go from your beginnings into editorial design? we have one superpower in common. and [00:03:30] that's obsession about editorial and print, because I'm obsessive about books.
I'm obsessive about layouts and getting the physical product in front of people into their hands and, having them to own it. we'll [00:03:40] go into the editorial before we start talking about a magazine show, but how did you, what's your background?
what was your story?
Nicola Hamilton: Yeah, so Growing up, I think I was an artistic kid, but I was [00:03:50] also, pretty good in your traditional subjects as well. and to be honest, I don't have a moment where I realized that graphic design was a thing I could go into. it was a path that seemed [00:04:00] really natural for me. I started. my sort of post secondary education in fine arts and cultural studies because I was not accepted into a graphic [00:04:10] design program right out of high school.
so I took an, alternative Acceptance to study fine art. I spent a year doing that before transferring into a graphic design [00:04:20] program. The editorial piece makes more sense in hindsight. my mom is a photographer, an equestrian photographer, very specific niche. She photographs [00:04:30] horses.so her livelihood was always selling photos to magazines.
and her office, which was just outside of my bedroom growing up, was just [00:04:40] littered with magazine covers that she had shot and mounted. And that's not something that made sense until someone pointed it out to me recently. but I was more aware of [00:04:50] editorial design and magazines in design school. I remember taking editorial design, my very first editorial one class, and just falling in love.
It was the combination [00:05:00] of illustration and photography with typography, and then just storytelling, right? Those rabbit holes that we can dive into, the things we can learn while researching a project [00:05:10] that I love so much. so I turned every single one of my graduating portfolio, Projects into a magazine project, an [00:05:20] editorial project in some way, shape or form.
so if it was a branding project, I was branding a magazine or a book publisher. If it was a web project, I was making an editorial website. so much so that [00:05:30] some of my past profs still poke fun at me for it.
Radim Malinic: Well, look where you're now. it's amazing that you said actually that your, your mother was actually a equestrian [00:05:40] photographer. I'm married to an equestrian fanatic. So yeah,
I am very much aware of what your mom could have been doing, because I'm around that world quite a [00:05:50] lot. And, your journey kind of reminds me similar to what I was to as a child and a teenager.
Like you don't really know that you can be a graphic [00:06:00] designer, you know, the magazine covers and that kind of stuff. you get hints and clues and there's record covers, but it doesn't always feel like. Is this what I can be doing? I'm fascinated that [00:06:10] you found for this editorial passion quite early on, because sometimes we get lost and we try to find our real passion and obsession.
And,the [00:06:20] magazines that you have, with the equestrian magazines, was there a stack of magazines that you always admired as a child or was it sort of revelation around your mid, too late [00:06:30] teen, teens that you realize, oh, I want to do editorial.
Nicola Hamilton: So I think that, like many teenagers, magazines were definitely a way into culture. So I grew up in a really small town, outside of [00:06:40] Toronto, with not a lot of access to culture. So magazines were definitely my way into culture. and fascinatingly, the timing's really funny. one of the magazines that made the biggest impression on [00:06:50] me growing up was actually Nylon.
Magazine, which is an American fashion title, but an alternative fashion title with deep roots and music, and they went away and I actually just [00:07:00] picked up their relaunch issue. They're back in print just this month. and that's 1 of the 1st times I remember as a young person, stumbling on a magazine as a sort of.
doorway [00:07:10] into a different realm, a different world, culture and style and fashion that I maybe didn't know existed, that I found way more interesting than what was available to me in [00:07:20] the tiny rural town I grew up in.
Radim Malinic: So in your small town, how did you even know about the magazine? Is there, was there like a sort of news agent where you go and, There's all the magazines. So is it [00:07:30] like a mail order? Because how long ago are we talking about this? Sorry, being curious about, it's just because sometimes you don't know what you don't know.
Like you have to sometimes go and find these things, like it's, the [00:07:40] world isn't as connected, wasn't as connected back then. So how did you get access to Niall on and similar magazines?
Nicola Hamilton: Again, I think a lot of that credit goes to my mom, right? She was going to the newsstand, which [00:07:50] was a sort of 40 minute drive from where I grew up. She was going to the newsstand to pick up the titles that she was published in. And so we're at the bookstore. Wandering around as children [00:08:00] as she's doing that, and I'm flicking through other things and she would happily buy us a book or a magazine while we were there.
Radim Malinic: That's amazing. I like it. I like it. The [00:08:10] question section. Yeah. I don't think there was always a fight around, around the magazines. Cause you were all had each other's section quite clear,
signposted.
Nicola Hamilton: But isn't it funny how that's not a [00:08:20] connection I've ever made until you've asked me that question. So that sort of piece of, Your career doesn't make sense until you're looking back at it afterwards. it's only recently that I've made the connection between [00:08:30] my mom's work and my access to magazines.
Radim Malinic: yeah, I think, as a proud dad to young children, you know,what happens in their lives. But, we always say we leave these breadcrumbs [00:08:40] that they can pick up and build together. And my children are already, skilled with apple pencils and Wacom tablets and, painting in frescoes and that kind of stuff.
It's a different world, right? Like to us, it'd be like a [00:08:50] Disneyland, like, what do you mean? This kind of stuff exists. But. I think sometimes we don't even know what our influences are until we really look into,how we are formed because we feel like we [00:09:00] come to our sort of teenagers as a clean slate, totally oblivious to our, childhood traumas and experiences, that kind of stuff.
And then go, yeah, of course, I'm open to anything only [00:09:10] to know that we really follow the things that have been shaping us for years and years. you Dedication to actually 40 minute drive to magazine store, like a newsstand. that's, I can't imagine that always, [00:09:20] always grew up in the cities, but sometimes where I grew up in Czech Republic, you have to actually put a mail order.
That's what I was asking. You have to put a mail order for something really good, CDs or albums. you need to [00:09:30] know what you really wanted. And that was interesting part because. Now in a hyper connected world, you just, you're one click away from having something delivered, within a week or something.
So we're making a [00:09:40] connection with magazines and it's good to know that Nylon is actually back in print. So you're in the graphic design, course and you're making everything editorial, branding magazines, branding, [00:09:50] all of this and that. Where does it take you next? Where do you go next with your obsession for editorial?
Nicola Hamilton: So I finished design school in 2011 [00:10:00] and in April of 2011, we finished up our semester in the spring and we had an internship component. We were required to do a four week internship to complete our studies. And I [00:10:10] was. Lucky enough to do my internship at a studio here in Toronto called Underline Studio.
And at the time they were just five people and they did a ton of editorial work, but they had one [00:10:20] foot in editorial land and one foot in boutique studio. And so that seemed like a really interesting place. For me to test out whether or not I really wanted to do [00:10:30] this magazine thing or not. and the magazine world still felt really abstract to me.
it's quite opaque trying to figure out how to gain access into the [00:10:40] publishing landscape is quite hard. I think especially not coming from a journalism program that might have had deeper ties to the publishers here in Canada or across North America. And so I do [00:10:50] my internship at Underline, which is amazing, and I get to work on a magazine from beginning to end, and I adore it.
I know absolutely that I adore it. I finished that internship, and I still don't [00:11:00] quite know how to get a foot in the door in magazine land. So I traipsed around the city with a portfolio. I think I was one of the last. graduating years to actually have a physical [00:11:10] portfolio that you're lugging around, this 11 by 17 brown leather thing I'm carrying around with me, showing people, having conversations.
I always tell [00:11:20] students about this sort of time in my life. I was so much more focused on just gaining knowledge and making friends than I was about finding work. And I think that, proved really beneficial [00:11:30] down the line. I travel for a little bit in that summer.
I come back. I send a bunch of emails to folks. I've met saying, hey, I'm open to freelance or to support your studio, or [00:11:40] I'm looking for a junior designer position. 1 of the internships that I had applied for, but not gotten at a slightly larger studio here in Toronto called Concrete. it turns out 1 of [00:11:50] their interns had backed out.
of the position that was coming up, and so they offered that to me. I took that, and that was a really clear indicator that magazines were the thing I really wanted to [00:12:00] do, because I wasn't doing any of them, and I missed it I finished that internship in the fall, and again, I'm lugging my portfolio around.
my moment, the moment I finally made it In [00:12:10] magazine land was meeting Vanessa Wise, who was the founding creative director of a publication based here in Toronto called The Grid, and it was an alternative city weekly for free [00:12:20] in a magazine or a newspaper box on the street. It was printed on newsprint, but it was designed like a magazine.
It had just launched that year. Brand [00:12:30] new and doing really, really interesting things in both the design space and the editorial space. And it was catered to people who were exactly me. So people in their 20s, 30s and 40s living in [00:12:40] the city. And I met Vanessa and we had this wonderful conversation. I remember it being maybe the longest portfolio review interview I've ever done.
We chatted forever. [00:12:50] We swapped sort of favorite magazines. She told me lots of stories. Stories from her time working in magazines, both here in Canada and in Australia where she's from. and she emailed me a couple of days later and said, [00:13:00] Hey, we have someone going on vacation for two weeks. Do you wanna come in and support the team?
Nicola Hamilton: I said, yes, absolutely. Looking back on it, I don't think I asked about pay or invoicing or hours. I think I [00:13:10] just said yes. And I joined the grid for two weeks to help them put out two issues. And that was amazing. And then the staffer came back, from their vacation and that was it for me until a [00:13:20] little while later, Vanessa emailed and asked me to meet her for breakfast and offered me a position there.
And so I spent just over three years at the grid as a designer. [00:13:30] that publication was a weekly. So you want to talk about sort of. Bootcamp in making magazines, we put out an issue every single week.
Radim Malinic: I've got so [00:13:40] many questions from you just said, but the first one is where is that leather portfolio right now? Have you still got it?
Nicola Hamilton: I do, I just moved, I actually just moved it to the basement [00:13:50] of the shop, so it's in the basement of issues, in a box full of old portfolio things.
Radim Malinic: Because it's one of those things that you can't just get rid of. [00:14:00] it's, I don't, yours sounds quite nice, but I had a really ugly one and I just like, you know what? I don't really want it. But I can't get rid of it because it's like, I still have the original sleeves as a commercial illustrator [00:14:10] and advertising.
It was only about six double sided sleeves or maybe seven double sided sleeves, but it's like the same pieces that were there in 2012 or, you may not actually [00:14:20] know, even now, 2007, same pieces of work are still there. Is your work still the same in the portfolio? Or have you changed it?
Nicola Hamilton: No, I don't think I've touched it since I got that job at the grid in [00:14:30] 2011. my favorite part about the plastic sleeves. that I don't think folks who are lucky enough to not have to lug these portfolio cases around. Do you remember Windexing, like cleaning the [00:14:40] plastic so it didn't have fingerprints on it? Is that
something you did?
Radim Malinic: My illustration was quite intricate. So like, whatever you would do, it's just, it would just enhance the pictures. But yeah, I think, yeah, we are from different [00:14:50] generation. Like it was kind of like, you could even spot the competition. And if you, if, for example, you went for a job interview and there would be people coming with portfolio cases, I was like, Ooh, [00:15:00] who's that?
what do they know? Because. Today, anyone works in a building, they could be anyone. It could be the CEO, the founder, or an intern, because we all look the same now. No one's got a [00:15:10] case. so what was the folio at that time that you had, that you were showing around? And you mentioned that sort of, The bootcamp, like the element of actually putting magazine out [00:15:20] every week because editorial design can be really a creative endurance.
Like it's especially with magazines that every page could be different like [00:15:30] this. even though we work with templates and content and editors and writers, it's a lot of content. It's a lot of content to put together because, I was always in awe, especially as a young designer to [00:15:40] see.
Newspapers in the UK
that got 80 pages in a day. I'm like, how on earth have you put this together? Because when you're a junior designer, you're like, I've just designed a [00:15:50] poster. It's taking me three days. How are these people doing it? So from the work that was in your folio that got you the job, what was it like to go into this environment [00:16:00] that obviously you had a few steps in, but to actually be thrown into the deep end and actually work with the team and produce something as complex as a magazine once a week.
Nicola Hamilton: I still [00:16:10] remember seeing my name in print after that first week. I remember my childhood best friend got up really early the day the magazine came out and sent me a photo of my name in the masthead. And that [00:16:20] was really exciting. That's validating in a way. I think magazine designers are some of the few designers that get to do that.
credit in public that way. I remember it being [00:16:30] terrifying. The work I was given was uber templated work and that was reassuring, right? It's nice as a junior to be like, yeah, yeah, I know how to typeset this. I did not know how to typeset [00:16:40] that. Vanessa then taught me how to typeset this. that, you learn a lot.
And I think the thing about the grid, I sometimes joke that job ruined all jobs after that, because it was such an [00:16:50] incredible place to work. we were so connected to the city, to Toronto, to the scene, to what was happening here. We were doing something exciting. Everybody was in a position that [00:17:00] was just above their experience level.
So everyone was working that little bit harder and we were doing something that sort of had the. Design landscape, the [00:17:10] design community that had the editorial community, the journalism community and just generally folks in Toronto excited. And that was really cool. collaborative [00:17:20] environment.
I think that was something that I really dug as a. junior designers starting out, in just those two weeks, I got to see how photos are assigned, how illustrations are assigned, how photos are [00:17:30] chosen, how illustrators are given feedback, how we figure out the order of the stories and then how a layout goes through all of its sort of rounds of checking.
Nicola Hamilton: and every magazine has different [00:17:40] processes for those things, but The Grid was a really well run. Ship in that way because it came out so frequently it needed to be and the team had already put in all of these [00:17:50] incredible processes to make it as smooth as it could be.
Radim Malinic: Did you find yourself going to bed and just your head buzzing with all the information that you were taking in [00:18:00] every day? Because there's nothing more exciting than having this overload of information in your, you know, daily. Cause like you, you own a ship, everyone's doing their thing. And then you go home and go, [00:18:10] Oh, what just happened?
And we go again tomorrow. how was it? It must've been exciting. It
Nicola Hamilton: It was really exciting. I think I've gotten used to that. that doesn't go away when you're making a magazine. So that [00:18:20] sort of production day, production week, sort of energy and excitement of like the pace at which you're moving, the amount of information that you're taking in, the number of decisions that you're making.
I [00:18:30] think that sort of buzziness sticks around. I definitely, Finish a day like that, and it takes a few hours to come down. So even if you've been at your desk really late, you're there [00:18:40] until well past your bedtime. I still have to go home and do something to decompress, watch some bad TV, and zone out for a bit Because it does put you on an energetic [00:18:50] high for sure.
Radim Malinic: sounds like that. You got your first position, being open to what you can learn because sometimes we find ourselves as a novice, designers, we try [00:19:00] to prove our worth and we are slightly anxious and now we've got our own insecurities. So we try to sort of Put our other persona forward.
They're like, yeah, I've got a solution. I can do this and I can [00:19:10] do that. and I'm not necessarily too helpful because we haven't been around the block even once, but I'd be like, you know what, I'm going to do this. I'm going to show you, it sounds like that you kind of [00:19:20] got the, entry point from a right angle that you got to see the magazine and, hustling and being being busy and being well oiled machine.
So sounds I don't know, we're not stepping on anyone's toes, [00:19:30] we're mostly part of a collaborative process.
Nicola Hamilton: There were definitely
moments, I don't think any of us come out of school and enter the industry without some of those [00:19:40] moments where we say more than we should or we step on someone's toes because we don't quite understand, the politics of a workplace, right? So there's absolutely moments where I was that [00:19:50] person.
Radim Malinic: I'm slightly reassuring because it sounded like it didn't at first. I'm thinking, you've done well. Because I think if there's one person, Sort of point I'm trying to get in my [00:20:00] written work and in a podcast and whenever I speak with people, like everyone makes a mistake, like we find in our feed at all the time, regardless of the age, there's still another mistake to be made,
So, [00:20:10] that's, yeah, I'm really glad because we are all human.
Nicola Hamilton: I think that Magazine Land also has this amazing way of making you a little less scared of the [00:20:20] mistakes because there's always another issue. And I think working on something that came out as frequently as The Grid, working on something weekly, There was no way we were ever going to be able to put out a perfect [00:20:30] product because we were doing it so quickly.
That entire magazine came together in four days. It was designed in a day and a half each week. so there was no way, there was no way there [00:20:40] wouldn't be a mistake. And the sort of collective outlook on that was, that's okay. There'll be another issue. It's okay. It's not a big deal. we'll get past it and we'll do better next week.
And so [00:20:50] starting my career with that mentality, I think was really helpful.
Radim Malinic: That sounds really good. we've got similar backgrounds. I work for a, as a designer for a printing company and I get to see my [00:21:00] mistakes almost daily. You know, like you make something like, okay, we need to make different color splits. So now this is, don't use a light font on the red, black and that kind of stuff.
so with your position, so you started. [00:21:10] as a junior. And then how far did you go in the company? and obviously I'm asking more from a point of experience, frankly, because we learn through going through the ranks. So how did you [00:21:20] go through the magazine and where did you end up on the other end?
Nicola Hamilton: Art director, which was really only one position jump. So our team at the [00:21:30] time was the founding creative director, Vanessa Wise. There was an associate art director position that was held by a wonderful designer named Adam Holowa. Until I [00:21:40] took that position, and then I was the designer and eventually Leandra Cianci replaced me as the designer.
collectively moved up to be, second in command, [00:21:50] but there were only three of us. It was a small team.
Radim Malinic: During that time, obviously it sounds like obviously the magazine was developing in a certain style, but. How much of a [00:22:00] McPie issue have you get being a magazine designer and really seeing other magazines doing their thing? And how do you stay true to the editorial style? Because, it's [00:22:10] quite easy to be dazzled by other things.
like we've seen in design all the time, especially with like 3D trends and typographical trends and how conservative sometimes you have to find yourself with your, with your [00:22:20] past work and your current work. How tempting is it to be tempted and how, how do you stay not tempted, if that makes sense,
Nicola Hamilton: I think it's a fine balance of magazines. the best magazines are a reflection of the [00:22:30] moment in time in which they're published. So there is a certain level of trendiness that I think is okay. I think following trends in that way makes sense. Sometimes I think you [00:22:40] still want to be true to the overall identity of the publication.
So that's the balance, right? How much do I need to keep templated and consistent issue to issue so that this continues [00:22:50] to look like the magazine that your readership expects, or is familiar with versus how much of this can I blow up and do something unique to the story and do something that's trendy to [00:23:00] try gives me space to experiment.
I think That's a real balance that you're trying to strike all the time, but you do have the benefit of being able to chase trends occasionally or to experiment with things [00:23:10] because they are meant to be a reflection of that specific moment.
Radim Malinic: you hit on the point about going around the city, Bibiofolio, making [00:23:20] connections. And I think there's one of the superpowers in our industry that, as it can be a most amazing creative, but if you don't really know people, it's really hard to get [00:23:30] doors open. And yeah, I'm all about meaningful connections, like not heralding about, go and meet people, be out there, send email every day to someone, like compliment on their work, [00:23:40] get to be known because it's the human aspect,
because we are ultimately creating work for other human beings, and sometimes as introverted as someone can be, if they say they are, you still [00:23:50] need that connection to actually, invoke a feeling in someone with your work.
you work with magazines and now you've got a magazine show. let's go to the [00:24:00] magazine show next. I'm gutted. I haven't been there last time I was in Toronto. I need to fix it next time I come because it's not only just a sort of standard magazine, but it's.
[00:24:10] it's touted as the magazine for hard to find publications and for people who keep magazines in print and I've got so many questions because being an independent [00:24:20] publisher, it feels sometimes like it's the most amazing feeling to be taken on the world of regular, you know, big boys and girls, maybe publishing houses and then having these bottles and, and boulders
[00:24:30] Carrying up, up, up the hill going, you know, this, this, this is sometimes really hard, but it's the most rewarding thing. when did you open your shop and why?
Nicola Hamilton: I opened [00:24:40] Issues in July of 2022, so we're nearing our second birthday. So we're still a toddler. We're still finding our feet. I opened the [00:24:50] store because I wished it would exist. So foryears, I would. Joke to other magazine friends, I would mention, I wish something like Meg Culture [00:25:00] or Casa or Under the Cover existed here in Toronto.
I don't understand why it doesn't exist here in Toronto. we're as creative of a city as [00:25:10] New York and London. why don't we have this? And I think like a lot of people during the pandemic, I started to take stock of what I was doing professionally and what I wanted to do more of, or what I wanted [00:25:20] to see exist in the world.
And supporting this magazine industry was really important to me. so I've been a part of the industry for 10 years. At that point, the industry [00:25:30] in Canada is tough. We are a geographically giant country, uh, who often isn't taken as seriously internationally as our [00:25:40] neighbors to the South in the United States are taken.
And I started to see a lot of my colleagues just get a little bit. resentful about the industry, or dismissive or [00:25:50] sad. And I started to think about ways that I might be able to inject some energy into it because I do fundamentally think that working in magazines is such an incredible privilege.
We get [00:26:00] to spend time thinking about things that not everyone else gets to think about. We have access to such incredible artists. and thinkers and researchers and [00:26:10] celebrity to, that shiny thing that makes the glossies work and it's really cool. We get to do this thing. That's really cool. So I started thinking about what our sort of community needed and a retail space, a [00:26:20] clubhouse felt like something that I might be able to figure out and I sent an email.
To your note about community and about our network being so important, a few years ago, I [00:26:30] was lucky enough to meet Jeremy Leslie, who's the founder of Meg Culture and has been documenting the independent magazine landscape worldwide for the last decade plus, [00:26:40] maybe nearing, I don't know how long Meg Culture has been around, actually, that's something I should check.
Nicola Hamilton: but Jeremy, as a blog, was documenting as a writer and publishing books himself [00:26:50] about the independent landscape. And MedCulture is a resource that I used a lot early in my career to do all of that sort of trend seeking and looking at what my colleagues in other parts of the world were doing and [00:27:00] experimenting with.
and Jeremy opened the MedCulture store, I think eight years ago, now in, in London. And I'd been lucky enough to meet Jeremy when he was here speaking at Design Thinkers, a [00:27:10] few years. friendship. And I sent Jeremy a message and said, Hey, I think I want to explore this. Is there any [00:27:20] worlds in which you could answer some nosy questions? And he emailed back immediately. And within a week we'd gotten on a zoom call and he was just so forthcoming with his [00:27:30] knowledge and the information he'd gathered over the years.
And so issues wouldn't exist without him, but it was that community piece, right? It was that like, who, you know, and who you can ask for help.
Radim Malinic: I [00:27:40] think that sounds like a lot of us had a time to rethink what we're doing in COVID.
And we've seen some success stories. We've seen people trying to pursue things that [00:27:50] didn't, go as well. But you said one thing, which is important, which is. I wish it existed, which is one of the things that I think is just [00:28:00] one of the biggest drives.
I think it goes with the obsession. I wish this existed and I'm going to make it happen. It's like ingredients of a, of an equation [00:28:10] because. I like from what I've seen, mostly from what I see online and from all of the posts that it all adds up your personality, your interest and [00:28:20] things that you do.
So it's a community space, you do, portfolio reviews and all of these things that Just go beyond the thing. And there's a big chat about, how to save the high street in the UK. Like how would you [00:28:30] do it? And obviously you need to rethink, like everything changes.
Like what worked 10 years ago doesn't work now. And what works today is not going to work in 10 years. I [00:28:40] hope that makes sense. But. We need to bring people together for other reasons than just spending money. You know, like, Hey, no, by the way, come to the store and buy another 15 for no white t shirt or whatever, like what we [00:28:50] already have 15 of them.
So it's that element of bringing people together is what makes things like, your store actually works. it's incredible because I think as an environment for a magazine designer, [00:29:00] obviously it's not as reclusive and isolated position as a freelance, illustrator who Takes on the world and hopes to know, to find some friends sometimes, you know, it's not as sad as I'm sort of [00:29:10] trying to insinuate, but it sounds like you've got, you're absolutely in right in the middle of the right sort of community and you're doing the best thing for it.
Nicola Hamilton: I think it was one of the things that really [00:29:20] made me want to do this, and one of the reasons I think I wanted issues to exist, and you're right, it was totally a vanity project to begin with, it was a selfish endeavor, in that I wanted [00:29:30] easier access to a lot of these titles, I wanted reasons to gather with other sort of magazine obsessives. It's been important to me from the very beginning that that include all of the [00:29:40] facets of magazine making. So that's your writers, that's your editors, that's your publishers, but that's also your designers and your illustrators and your photographers. And I think one of the things that's [00:29:50] also been really important to me from the beginning is the sort of information sharing, right?
Because so many of us do work Alone in silos, and inherently [00:30:00] designing photography illustration as much as there are collaborative parts. it all starts from a really solitary place. So being able to bring people together to share information, to share [00:30:10] their learnings. So many independent publishers are not trained in publishing or design or writing.
So for them to be able to share some of the ways that they're thinking about this business, [00:30:20] ways that differ from the way this business has been operating for the last 50 years, is really important.
Radim Malinic: I think it's when you don't know what you don't know. And that's when the magic really [00:30:30] happens, like you don't really want to know everything that comes with what you're taking on, because it might even stop you in your tracks. if you know everything about design career, you're Would you really do it?
[00:30:40] Because if you know too much, you might not really want to do it. So I think just like being slightly oblivious and naive, I think that's what gets us in this position. We're like, you know what, I'm going to do all of these [00:30:50] things and then, Oh, I need to do all of this as well. Okay.
how do you have time to read magazines? Do you actually have time to go through them?
Nicola Hamilton: I try to make time [00:31:00] right now. I feel like I'm only making time for the things that I need to.the last magazine actually sat down and read was in preparation for an event. We have here at the shop I [00:31:10] would say I have less time than I used to read them, but I have more opportunities to engage with them here in the shop.
So I get to flip through a lot more [00:31:20] than I used to be able to flip through because I used to have to buy it and ship it from Europe and pay a lot of money to get access
to them, where here there's so many more.
Radim Malinic: For [00:31:30] those who would love to be stocked in stores like yours,
what is the best way to do it? Because it sometimes feels like, especially in the past, it felt like a sort of [00:31:40] gate kept, industry. Like, how do you get into the new stand? I mean, we, you are more connected than ever before, but what's the advice that you would say, if you wanna be No.
Seen and [00:31:50] stored, stocked is the right word,what's the best way to go about it?
Nicola Hamilton: if you're an independent publisher, if you're a small scale, independent publisher, the best thing to do is to just email those stores, [00:32:00] send them an Instagram DM, whatever sort of point of contact you have, tell them a bit about your publication, share some pages, or mail them, a whole issue, we definitely like to [00:32:10] engage with the print product before we choose to bring something new in, just because you can see so much more about a publication when you actually hold it Just ask.
That's the thing. If [00:32:20] you're publishing on a larger quantity, you have the option for distribution, and international distribution can be so helpful in accessing multiple stockists [00:32:30] and retailers. But again, that's find distributors you think are interesting or folks who distribute magazines that you think are at a similar level to you and reach out.
Send an email and ask some [00:32:40] questions. I think it is that thing of you don't know what you don't know. so ask
Radim Malinic: Absolutely. I totally agree with that because I've had editors, I've sometimes [00:32:50] stalked editors at events. It's Hey, I've got this book. And it's Oh, send us a PDF. no. Here's a book. It's in my bag. Here's the book. Take the book. Like it's physical. it's different. I put my heart and [00:33:00] soul in this because this is extension of me.
Here's the book. Take the book. I think, yeah, it sounds like exactly the same.
Nicola Hamilton: well, and that heart and soul piece is so important. it was really [00:33:10] important to me that these magazines get displayed with the same kind of care and attention that goes into. making them, right? Like I know firsthand how much time and energy and love goes [00:33:20] into making a publication.
I want to make sure that they are displayed with a similar amount of care. Unlike, going to your local convenience store, which happens to [00:33:30] have magazines stacked on magazines, right? We want to make sure that they're cared for in the same way that the people who make them care for them.
Radim Malinic: limited time to read, what is your favorite [00:33:40] magazine at the moment? What's your best new find? And what's your favorite magazine
Nicola Hamilton: My favorite stayed the same for a while. My favorite is MacGuffin, which is published out of [00:33:50] the Netherlands. Every issue looks at a different inanimate object in any sort of magazine. Obsessive listening, I'm sure, will be familiar with MacGuffin, but it's [00:34:00] so well researched. It's so well written. It's so well designed.
It's such a joy to spend time with and every single issue is a surprise. So because they take an inanimate object and [00:34:10] look at it from a bunch of different directions, objects like the trousers, the ball, the letter, the bottle, random objects. chosen intentionally. it's always a treat. I [00:34:20] always learn so much.
It piques a certain kind of curiosity. my most recent find. That's a fascinating question. Now things come [00:34:30] across my desk in the last little bit. that I wasn't aware of yet and floored me. but I think the one that we're spending a lot of time talking about around the shop right now is the publication made here in [00:34:40] Toronto called Bully.
and Bully is a fashion title, a black led fashion title, that's just shaken things up. They are publishing the kinds of stories and fashion editorials that don't really [00:34:50] have a home in other publications in Canada. And that's been pretty exciting.
Radim Malinic: I can see he's got a very bold type of bully on.
Nicola Hamilton: Yes, it does.
Big. And [00:35:00] it's a big magazine. they've just published their second issue, recently. and it's a big magazine. it sits on your coffee table. It rivals the IDs and the [00:35:10] days.
Radim Malinic: I can see also stocked Chutney. I found Chutney there. We've got the same printers. I've got a copy when I'm going to be printing my latest books. So I got a copy of Chutney and I [00:35:20] was in awe. I was like, Oh, wow.
Nicola Hamilton: It is.
Radim Malinic: there's something about traditional, I feel like magazine designers. I just made differently. there's this certain way, you know, if you were to try to emulate [00:35:30] it as a sort of standard graphic designer, and I'm like a non linear multifaceted creative, I just borrow and cross pollinate, but I opened Chutney, I was like, Oh, I wish I was as [00:35:40] this, like in terms of editorial flow and stuff, because with my books, I try to re imagine like how, We can actually make a publication in a different way.
[00:35:50] no one says it has to be, and it's done in a certain style, a certain way. And I was, when I was working on my latest books, I was inspired by Kindling,
Nicola Hamilton: I bought it for my kids, but I kept it for myself because I just wanted to amalgamate [00:36:00] magazine elements into my books.
Radim Malinic: there's heaps of things that are just, they surprise you in a way, And when I opened Chutney, I was like, Oh my God, this is good. It's really good.
Radim Malinic: so Osmond [00:36:10] started making Chutney here in Toronto, so I will hold Chutney as a Toronto Canadian made title, even though this issue was made in London, and Chutney is, it's [00:36:20] incredible. This issue is so wonderful.
Nicola Hamilton: So the 1st, 2 issues only had a print run of about 250 copies and this issue had 1000 print run. It's no [00:36:30] longer being resograph printed and hand bound. it's. Offset Printed, Larger Scale, Big Swing for Osman and for Chutney. Osman's a self taught editor and a self taught [00:36:40] designer. He's studying design now, but has been making Chutney as a non editor, non writer, non designer for the last couple of years, and it's such an [00:36:50] incredible title.
It's so well done. things about this piece is that
Radim Malinic: funk.
Nicola Hamilton: Yeah, yes. one of my favorite things about this issue of Chutney was, the, [00:37:00] because it used to be risograph printed, it had this, imperfection to it. It had this handmade quality to it. And going to a sort of larger scale print run, Osmond found ways to keep that sort of [00:37:10] hand done nature to it.
So you'll notice a lot of the stories are still only one or two colors. The paper is not white. There's all these little details. There's hand done elements that keep it feeling really [00:37:20] handmade.
Radim Malinic: we share the same printers. all of our titles are, carbon neutral, offset printed with, green energy. So it's just you want to also take those boxes [00:37:30] because that makes feel even more. happier about what you're producing in the world. So yeah, I was, yeah, there was an article about Iranian funk and I'm like, my brain couldn't even comprehend like Iranian [00:37:40] funk.
This is amazing. And it was the chosen illustration was in there and it's, it transcended me to a different place, which is
I've just been on the print run for my own books and I was like, Oh, this is amazing. I [00:37:50] just like, you I know when you're on that journey of constantly wanting to improve and cross pollinate, I'm like, Oh, maybe next time, what do I do?
You know, it's, yeah, I feel [00:38:00] magazines are so dynamic, I feel like I'm very much in the world of books, but the vast majority of books are very safe. You know, something is very tactile, very minimal. There's only a few [00:38:10] sort of things that really stick out. They are more rebellious.
But for the magazines, as you say, there's always another issue. If this doesn't work, you got to print another issue. There's a few more stories and stuff. yeah, this has been [00:38:20] fascinating. I am, I love how you are connected to all of these people through. That's such a big community. And I guess that can only take us to talk about RGD,[00:38:30] the organization that you're current president of and to those who don't live in Canada and never heard of RGD, what would you describe it to the, uh, non Canadian [00:38:40] internationals?
what would you do?
Nicola Hamilton: So RGD is a professional association. So we give designers and a certification. So an accreditation of sorts, but we're also [00:38:50] just a really big community association. So we're nationwide across Canada. we're over 4, 000 members now in Canada [00:39:00] and it's designers of all kinds. So everything from the designer working in the print shop through to your design educators working in sort of high level academia to [00:39:10] your, world class award winning agencies and studios.
and RGD's mandate is to build community and to advocate for a better design community. [00:39:20] community and design industry across the country.
Radim Malinic: it's a fascinating organization because everything that I've had the pleasure to experience with RGD, Again, it's got [00:39:30] soul. It's got so much soul that sometimes it feels it's missing from, our organization, let's say in England or other places.
And, I remember being [00:39:40] at Design Thinkers, waiting for the lift at the hotel. And there was this, Lady. I was like, Hey, how are you doing? Have you got a busy day ahead? And she's yeah, I do. And so do [00:39:50] you. Oh my God, it's Hilary. It was the first time I met Hilary. I was just thinking it's just a random person in a hotel.
I didn't recognize her from her picture. And, I'm all right [00:40:00] that Hilary has been around with the organization 25 years.
Nicola Hamilton: Yeah. This year, this
month, Hillary's celebrating 25 years with RGD.
Radim Malinic: and I think she's been incredible for us. Like, I mean, [00:40:10] everyone I speak to. That's connected to RGD because there's not so many really nice things to say about the whole organization. So if I'm a sort of a good [00:40:20] designer, a graphic designer in Canada, and I want to be certified, what would I get from RGD?
do I get more connections or do I get more sort of help in hand in how to conduct my business? [00:40:30] What are you guys doing?
Nicola Hamilton: All of the above. we published a professional handbook about design, which has All manner of templated contracts and agreements and [00:40:40] invoicing structures and non disclosures, all kinds of forms that you would need to run your own business, virtual communities, so ways for people to connect based on their very specific sort [00:40:50] of professional genre or identity.
We do a ton of advocacy work in the accessibility space and publish an accessibility handbook. So [00:41:00] accessibility is all about how designers can be more accessible or what the legislation is, because accessibility is law in a lot of provinces in Canada now. The Design [00:41:10] Thinkers Conference, which is what you've had the privilege of interacting with RGD, which happens in Vancouver, Toronto in November every year, and that's just such an incredible [00:41:20] opportunity to connect with other designers and then also connect to the global design community.
I think that's the thing that conference has done so well. We bring together our Canadian community, but most of our [00:41:30] speakers are coming from other parts of the world. So that keeps us connected. if you're a student, there's like awards programs and mentorship and piles of resources. we just had our [00:41:40] AGM last weekend and the sheer volume of projects that are on the go at any moment is mind boggling.
Radim Malinic: how do you. Even digest it all because [00:41:50] having spoken to you for the last 45 minutes, I am pretty sure that the magazines will be always like, as long as you're alive, there'll be a magazine shop in Toronto, you'll be publishing [00:42:00] magazines and, I feel like that path is linear and it's only going ahead and I'm only going forward, but it's going to be, in the ways of David Bowie, I don't know where I'm going, but it's not going to be [00:42:10] boring.
I think in your way, like the magazines will be always the thing. But my question is about graphic designer as a position, as a job title, because since [00:42:20] I started calling myself a graphic designer, which was about 24 years ago, and I remember how proud I was, I'm still somewhere deep. And I know that deep down, I'm still a graphic designer with [00:42:30] what I do, but my sort of professional world is so multifaceted.
I do so many other things. And. In that time, in the last 24 years, we have, we've got job titles that never even we've thought of it. [00:42:40] Like we've, if I was to tell you this, I would be the head of product, be like, it's a joke, right? Or you're going to be like head of experience. what are you telling me?
Like the job titles that even didn't exist 10 years ago, [00:42:50] now exist now. And sometimes what you would do as a graphic designer, it's so different, diluted, So where do you see future of graphic design as a profession of [00:43:00] a graphic designer?
Nicola Hamilton: I think you sort of hit the nail on the head when you said that even though your career is so multifaceted now you work on so many different projects, you still think about yourself [00:43:10] as a graphic designer. So I think sort of the fundamentals of graphic design are not changing anytime soon. We're just finding new and interesting ways to [00:43:20] apply those theories and those fundamentals and those processes.
So I don't think graphic design disappears in any way. I do think the job titles are ever expanding. You're [00:43:30] right, UX, UI would have meant nothing to me 10 years ago, and it means a lot to me now, the idea of being a prompt engineer, which is something a lot [00:43:40] of designers are dabbling in. Those are all things that we're adding To the rest of design industry.
I think the future of design It looks a lot like the past. [00:43:50] It just adopts new technologies and we continue exploring and experimenting and adopting them. If you were to think pre computer, there are a lot of jobs that don't exist anymore, [00:44:00] but graphic design is still here. even though typesetters are not doing the work that they used to do, we're still typesetting just digitally.
Radim Malinic: when you think about it, the last two [00:44:10] decades, when there was this, these sort of these bubbles of opinions, like designers need to code. And now you look into the future, like for example, with AI. [00:44:20] Language is going to replace a code because the code is so ingrained in our technology, in AI, that it's the prompt, you said prompt engineers and that kind of stuff, like it's all changing.
So what [00:44:30] we thought it was like absolute master necessity, according to some, it's almost obsolete that the idea that designers need to code. it was good to know. It was good to have, I know how to code, but I know how to fix [00:44:40] a code. I don't, I'm not a coder, but it's like knowing about how connected we are for graphic designing.
There's so many different disciplines, how obviously how our place, influences the world of [00:44:50] business and economy and how we generate, revenue and help people be successful. And I think as we just agreed on is the fact that what we create hasn't changed, [00:45:00] like what was the principles that we'll be creating are still very much the same as a hundred years ago to now, 200 years ago.
And I think this is the magical part that, I think we feared that, [00:45:10] graphic design is going to disappear. And, you've got graphic designers and visual designers and this and that, but going back to one of your former guests at Design Thinkers, Stefan Sagmeister, he [00:45:20] still calls himself a graphic designer, a man who can call himself absolutely anything.
I'm a graphic designer. And we feel in our insecurities, like I'm a, I'm an art director, designer, [00:45:30] illustrator, all of this stuff,no, it's okay. Just, make it, can keep it easy for yourself. I
Nicola Hamilton: It's funny, I've been thinking a lot about the intersection of sort of art and commerce and how design [00:45:40] falls in that middle part of the Venn diagram. And I think what we learn as graphic designers is that. Whether that's through formal education or experience working in this [00:45:50] industry, what we learn is a process and a way of thinking about the world and a way of asking questions
We become almost obsessive about needing to know. the whys and hows [00:46:00] of whatever topic we are engaged with. And I think that's a skill set that is going to continue to be important in the way we create. a visual [00:46:10] world.
Radim Malinic: you said the right thing about asking questions because sometimes we feel we know everything. We're like, oh no, I don't, I'm good to start. I'm good to make a start. Whereas. [00:46:20] I think it comes with age because when you feel comfortable asking the extra question and the question afterwards and the question, and then you question the question and question the answer, you go, [00:46:30] Oh, now it makes sense.
Because as a creative, when you get a brief from someone who hasn't really thought about it, it's got half of an idea. You take it as a face value. You take it as a, Oh, okay, let's [00:46:40] work with this. We need to find out it was never going to work. And I've got two young children and my boy, he's, Beautifully Curious.
And he's he just asked the word, he asks why [00:46:50] 17 times and you tell him why, and I'm thinking this could be annoying to someone, but to me, it's like, he's actually unlocking my sort of new ways of thinking. of course we can, I can describe that [00:47:00] answer 10 times differently. I can tell him this time, because he's going to ask, he's going to keep asking because some of it might be going over his head because he's still very little.
But. I think it's a superpower to [00:47:10] actually go into a situation and it's you know what, I'm going to ask you loads of questions and I'll still make you feel comfortable. And we're going to get really good stuff out of it. I think this is our superpower. So
Nicola Hamilton: I [00:47:20] think to borrow from Brian Collins a little bit, our future, our superpower is being able to imagine a future, right? We actually invent the future. When we are [00:47:30] putting a design project together, we are, we're inventing a brand identity. Sometimes we're literally inventing the look and feel of a product that doesn't exist yet, physical product or digital [00:47:40] product.
And so that ability to, make something from nothing, and to make something for nothing that goes out into society, not as art, but as part of [00:47:50] our sort of societal existence, is beautiful. meant to be used, right? Something that's meant to be engaged with and used not just looked at.
Radim Malinic: that's a very [00:48:00] good segue. So we're going to take the Brian Collins, Imagine the Future, a new reason to start your shop, which is, I wish it [00:48:10] existed. What is your next thing? What is your, what, if you could make anything happen, future thing that you wish existed that doesn't exist right now, what would that be?
Nicola Hamilton: here in [00:48:20] Canada, we don't have a ton of support for independent magazine publishers to get started and it's something that I really want to see. so the idea of a magazine [00:48:30] incubator.
I want to incubate and mentor and support startup publishing projects. I want to give platforms to stories that aren't being told in our commercial media. And I want to give money [00:48:40] to writers and photographers and illustrators who are doing the work to platform those stories. that's my dream right now, and it'll take me some time to figure out how to get there.
But I am [00:48:50] practicing saying it out loud because that is the step, first step towards imagining a future of any kind.
Radim Malinic: We all have these ideas that we want to make, [00:49:00] and sometimes we find so many reasons for our insecurities going, or maybe not just yet, or maybe in the future, maybe this.
And I think it's the magical thing, because when you're young, you feel really [00:49:10] scared. Or, I don't have the right funds, and you're distracted. When you get older, you feel as if you haven't got time. But it's Actually, everything can be done. So I do love your idea of [00:49:20] magazine incubator because I think it'll be magazines always in your world.
And I really liked that because. Being obsessive about that thing. It sometimes takes time for [00:49:30] us to find it, but, yeah, I can't wait to visit your store in the future. And I'm not exceeding my baggage allowance on the way back to London. [00:49:40] cause, yeah, no, everything you described that sounds absolutely perfect.
So apart from the magazine incubator, you still working on the magazine. You say, just send a magazine to print.
Nicola Hamilton: I did. last week [00:49:50] we
sent,
the fourth issue of Serviette to print, which yes, you can see behind me a little sneak preview.
Radim Malinic: sort of as a sort of closing point with the world of [00:50:00] editorial, you can, because it's so interchangeable, as you said, that you can borrow a trend or you can surf a trend as it comes. Is it something that visually you [00:50:10] you wish to do or wish to add an extra element because we've had augmented reality, you know, we had like a, you know, all of these things they come and go, but is there something content wise, [00:50:20] style wise?
for finishing wise that you would like to achieve with one of your magazines.
Nicola Hamilton: I don't think so. I mean, I feel like every magazine is different and the [00:50:30] magic of making magazines is responding to the content that's in front of you. And there are often stories that I wouldn't have encountered otherwise, or I wouldn't have sought out. and for [00:50:40] me, the best part about making magazines is the collaboration with other people.
creative. So with photographers and illustrators and type designers, that's just the best part. That's the best part. And [00:50:50] the part I wouldn't give up for anything and to overcomplicate that process with more technology. it's not for me. There's people that do it so incredibly well, but it's not my [00:51:00] bag and that's okay.
need to be.
Radim Malinic: staying true to yourself. I love it. thank you so much for your time. I absolutely geeked out on this [00:51:10] conversation. so yeah, thank you so much for what you're doing because it's incredible. And as I said, time I'm in town, I'll be,I'll be in the store.
Nicola Hamilton: Yeah. Come visit us, but also thanks [00:51:20] for having me and for doing what you do. Cause it's also really valuable.
Radim Malinic: Thank you.
Radim Malinic: Thank you for listening to [00:51:30] this episode of Creativity for Sale podcast. The show was produced and presented by me, Radim Malinic. Editing and audio production was masterfully done by
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To get your own action plan on how to start and grow a life changing creative business. You can get a copy of the Creativity for Sale book via the links in show notes. [00:52:00] burning, and until next time, I'm Radim Malinich, your guide through this exploration of passion, creativity, innovation, and the boundless potential within us [00:52:10] all. [00:52:20]
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