A deeply personal conversation exploring Amanda Mocci's journey from childhood artist to successful brand identity designer and illustrator. She discusses how her late brother's influence shaped her cosmic inspiration, managing ADHD as a strength, and finding balance between commercial work and personal art. The episode delves into the importance of embracing imperfection and allowing creative evolution to happen naturally. Her story demonstrates how personal challenges and loss can transform into sources of artistic inspiration and professional growth.

Key Takeaways:

• Early struggles with ADHD led to creative strengths
• Art became a healing outlet after losing her brother
• Self-taught portraiture through dedication and practice
• Music, particularly unpredictable compositions, fuels creative process
• Failure in business attempts led to growth and eventual success
• Balance between commercial design and personal art is crucial
• Creative confidence comes from mastery and passion
• Embraces "stationary feeling" as necessary for growth
• Values storytelling in both branding and illustration
• Maintains flexible goals rather than rigid plans

Mindful Creative: How to understand and deal with the highs and lows of creative life, career and business

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Amanda Mocci: You constantly feel like you're the oddball or like you're not fitting in, very quiet in class. I feel like I only became more outgoing later on, and that's a result of knowing how to do something really well and doing something that I love. So that confidence came after, but when I was young, yeah, definitely not confident ​

USBPre2-2: Welcome to mindful creative podcast. A show about understanding how to deal with the highs and lows of creative lives. My name is Ryan Martin edge and creativity changed my life by also nearly killed me. In the season inspired by my book of the same title. I am talking to some of the most celebrated figures in a creative industry. In our candid conversations, my guests share their experiences [00:01:00] and how they overcame their challenges and struggles. How they learn to grow as creatives. A creative career in a 21st century can be overwhelming. I wanted to capture these honest and transparent conversations that might help you find that guiding light in your career. 

Thank you for joining me on this episode and taking the first or next step towards regaining control of your creative life. You ready? 

My guest today is a branded entity designer and a portrait artist who runs her studio in Montreal, Quebec. Her training is rooted in graphic design but her journey has been shaped by self taught passion for portraiture. Her approach balances simplicity with functionality, deeply influenced by her love of art, music, film, and the cosmos, an enduring fascination that often emerges in her work.

In our deeply personal conversation, she discusses how her late brother's influence shaped her cosplaying inspiration, managing [00:02:00] ADHD as a strength, and finding a balance between commercial work and personal art. It's my pleasure to introduce Amanda Mochi.

Radim Malinic: Hey, Amanda, it's so nice to have you on the show. How are you doing today? 

Amanda Mocci: Hey, I'm really, really well. I'm super excited to be here. How are you doing? 

Radim Malinic: I'm good. I'm just excited about having a conversation about the things that you do, how you do them, what's your journey.

And yeah, see what we can discover. So for those who have may have never heard of you, how would you describe yourself or introduce yourself? 

Amanda Mocci: Okay. My name is Amanda Maci. I am a brand identity designer. I've been working Strictly under my own studio name, so Mochi Studio for the last three years now.

some people might probably know me better from my, portrait illustration. So that's something else that I do. I do branding and I do portraiture as [00:03:00] well. 

Radim Malinic: let's rewind it back to your early days. Childhood and kind of discover of creativity. What was your way into creativity?

Because what you do now is quite diverse. And some of it might be for business reasons. Some of it might be because your heart and your mind take you in a different direction. So what was the first time you were aware of creativity per se? 

Amanda Mocci: Oh, wow. okay. Thinking back, I would say it started as early as, picking up a pencil, crayon, and some paper.

We're talking about maybe two, three years old. Time that I really remember precisely was like around the age of four.my mom would actually have a very hard time, getting me off the table when it was time to set the table for supper for like lunchtime. There was just a bunch of construction paper everywhere, pencil crayons.

was always cutting up paper, building stuff, drawing things. I wouldn't say that, And obviously as a child, you don't say Oh, this, I'm really good at this. And [00:04:00] I really wasn't if I look back, but something happened, I think around seven years old is I created this little collage in class and all the kids were making fun of it because I was putting these really random details into the image.

It was a facial, it was like a little girl like on construction paper. And while everyone was laughing, the teacher was like, Hey, this is really interesting. it's interesting that you noticed the lines here on the face or like the way the hair moves or something like that. so I got entered into a competition and I won an art competition.

So I think I put a post about this on Instagram somewhere, but it was actually the first time I was recognized. For something art related. So it was a little bit of a, boost as If you can say that , 

Radim Malinic: that's a true encouragement. you've hit on the balance of having your peers disapproval because for them it's a foreign concept.

You're like, do you mean? What you doing? Whereas having someone to actually [00:05:00] see it properly and encourage you. to actually entering the competition and having, that as a feedback. That's definitely sounds like it can set you on a path of where you are today. So I'm quite happy that's what happened because sometimes I can't really join the dots and understanding, if someone really knows this early.

what they want to do. I've got two young children. they're all over the place. they do incredibly creative things, but you never know where it might take them next. maybe would you say that life a few decades ago was slightly simpler, that you can actually focus more on just, for example, art rather than be distracted by tablets, computers, social media, that kind of stuff.

Would you say that it helped you to actually focus on what you wanted to do because the world was slightly simpler? 

Amanda Mocci: Oh, I think for myself, if I put myself obviously in me, a hundred percent. I am someone that has ADHD. I've been told this. I thought I had it, around 20 years [00:06:00] old and then.

As life went on, I actually got diagnosed with it. It's not like a big deal. I think it actually became a strength of mine. so for me, if I was fully surrounded by computers, iPads, Like kind of the endless possibilities that we have today. I would have been so overwhelmed and definitely would not have picked up paper and started cutting up paper and started drawing by hand.

so not to say like today it's really beautiful. What we have and what, kids are exposed to, and there's so many learning opportunities, but I know that for me, all I can speak is for what I've been through. And, the experiences that I have had. So I think for me, that focus was, everything I needed to become who I am today.

Radim Malinic: It's interesting that you mentioned your ADHD diagnosis before you got diagnosed at the age of 20. Did you feel different? Did you feel, anyone have any remarks about your way of creating [00:07:00] or having a sort of hyper focus? Was there any signs? Because we now get to understand ADHD means and I had this wonderful conversation with Ben Tallon and he is very much knee deep in understanding creative condition and creative humanity, like how we perceive the work we do.

And he said, is the high frequency and reward, is that what draws us into creativity, which was so beautifully put. And easily explained because when you've got that sort of condition, you actually look for these opportunities all the time and try to find this sort of, pocket of energy where you can explore, unlike the kids that would not understand it.

So with ADHD, did anyone you realize that before your diagnosis that could be your condition? 

Amanda Mocci: yeah. was definitely different. definitely felt like a black sheep in school. really from the beginning of elementary, I completely suck at math. So [00:08:00] is it like awful?

So that I like ruled out so many opportunities I think from the very beginning. And I'm 38 now. So at that time, like we're talking about early nineties, I feel like if you weren't good in math in school, they would kind of like say, okay, what are you doing? and it made you feel like you stood out as like a black sheep.

we were doing like math drills and I feel like I would just get looks from my teacher and being like, Amanda, really, come on. I know now that I jumble numbers and I flip numbers all the time. So okay, I have to put that aside and I need to focus on something that I'm actually good at. But when you're in elementary, it's extremely hard to know what that is because you haven't lived yet.

you're like between seven, 10 years old, 12 years old.so yeah, I would say a lot of remarks were like, Oh, she's so spaced out. She's. in the moon. Funny enough is that I have a tattoo like about that [00:09:00] and I have the moon on it and it's a reminder of being spaced out and being labelled on the moon is actually a good thing for me.

So I just always look at it. I'm like, okay, this is who I am. And I have to just own that.but yeah, to go back to your, question, I definitely had a feeling, I think something was off. so there's definitely a bit of stress that comes into play is like when we don't know a lot at that age of likeWhat is going on?

You constantly feel like you're the oddball or like you're not fitting in, very quiet in class. I feel like I only became more outgoing later on, and that's a result of knowing how to do something really well and doing something that I love. So that confidence came after, but when I was young, yeah, definitely not confident.

I feel like an oddball, not good in math. you get the picture. 

Radim Malinic: Yeah. would you describe it? It's almost like the movies we see from the nineties, like we see from that [00:10:00] time, like you, you have that someone who stands out too much They get picked on because they get misunderstood because you got, the popular kids and you've got the Abercrombie kids and whatever.

And it's just like, when we look back, that was still the age of innocence because you could be, as you say, on the moon, you can actually enjoy just be in your own world because at that time we could actually do it. Because. Now, being in a hyper connected world, the messaging or it's a bullying or trolling and that kind of stuff is so much more multiplied and some stronger that,we've all had bad share of, misunderstanding from various people, but when you look back, is it, Liberating to actually unpick Experience and make peace with it? 

Amanda Mocci: I would say yes, a hundred percent. I look at it as a strength and I, see it as if things would've been different. If it would've happened differently, my path would've been [00:11:00] completely different from every second, from every hour of the day, from every week.

It potentially if I always say, actually, and I have, this a lot on, I'll post a lot about this, but if I was good in math, I would try to become an astronaut. that was always my dream and, work somewhere with NASA or a SpaceX or something.but that was not the case. So for me going through this experience is like the cosmos is like such a big thing for me.

And it's where I get a lot of my inspiration. And I've just turned that into art. without, having the strength of math or science. yeah, I think that those things that have happened, I don't want to call them struggles, but, maybe at the time they were, and now I see them as strengths.

Radim Malinic: Let's take you to the moon for a second. I know from knowing your work and knowing you that, there's a huge theme of outer space. So we know when the paper and crayons and, the industrial paper came into your life, but connection [00:12:00] to the outer space, to the moon and, beyond, when did that, let me call it obsession, when that obsession came into your life and how?

Amanda Mocci: I have to thank my brother for this actually, because From probably when I could see and look up at the sky, he would constantly call out like, Oh, there's Jupiter. That's Mars. Oh, did you see that constellation? Oh, do you know how big Jupiter is? Do you know how many earths could fit into Jupiter?

these random facts. And, we were very similar. Like he also had lot of attention. don't want to say ADHD yeah, he was definitely there, but it made him so creative, in that sense. He was the one who definitely introduced me to that side. And I think because we're like sponges when we're kids, as you have children and they pick up on everything like the beginning of their life.

That was definitely something that stayed with me. and I guess as I started, yeah, like working in design and then [00:13:00] art, it was, Like a, basically the root of the tree of, where I drew all my inspiration from. 

Radim Malinic: That's remarkable. how much older was your brother? 

Amanda Mocci: So my brother was 11 years older than me.

 he actually passed away, though. He passed away in 2005.so I was just shy of turning 19.but yeah, he was like, just a huge part of my creativity. 

Radim Malinic: yeah, every time I read that story, it just makes me,almost physically feel it, like how losing someone so close, especially so inspiring and so, pointed in your life.

 I did read somewhere that at that time you were to double down around the age of 18 on your Hard skills in your portraiture because not only you worked five hours or work on your skills five hours after school, but also you worked 15 hours at weekends, which is remarkable.

And I think that sort of focus, that hyperfocus, I guess we now know it was , A DHD [00:14:00] there got you driven into that, corner of your creativity. What did it feel like to be dealing with your grief and having that outlet to. Just, let it all out. 

Amanda Mocci: yeah, I think no one really gives you a manual for how, to deal with grief, especially when you're, in your late teens and we were all going through a very difficult time.

And I was a type to, to bottle things up. So I felt like I needed to find some sort of an outlet. And the way it started was really that my brother always encouraged me to try different things, and he was always very proud of what I would do, what I would accomplish in school, even though it wasn't always fantastic.

he was always so encouraging that after he passed away, I remember thinking back to a time where I had the opportunity to try and draw [00:15:00] a face. Like we're talking about just in a sketchbook. And I was literally terrified. And I think it just comes back to this perfectionist like, Oh no, I'm not, I'm not get this right the first go.

I, it's almost like I needed to have a masterpiece, like at the first. go, right? And I tried it and I was like so upset. So I just put it aside and I never touched it again. Even though my family's I see like you're really good in art and then winning that little competition when I was seven years old.

But I just put it aside completely. And then I remember I was literally sitting in my room and,really washed over with, grief and I thought to myself, what, my brother was 30 when he passed, so still quite young, still had a lot to live for. And I would think about what he wouldn't be able to do and what he probably wanted to do and what he would encourage me to do.

That was at the moment [00:16:00] where I said, you know what, what do I have to lose? I'm here, I'm living, I'm breathing today. I'm going to sit down and draw a face. sounds ridiculous, but I'm like, why am I so scared? let's do this. took some pencils out. really didn't have anything special at the time, just some loose, leaf.

And I started doodling. And at that moment, I'm like, okay, this actually feels really nice because it got me into this. I want to almost like a meditation state, Anxiety just went away and the stress went away and for a moment it was like me, the paper, the pencils, the feeling of the pencil on the paper, and then slowly a face started to emerge.

It wasn't fantastic, but it was something that I'm like, I feel like I could push this a little bit and maybe it could turn into something. Maybe it's just a pastime. again, the ADHD starts to kick in and I'm like, where can this go? Or it was like overthinking so many things in that moment.[00:17:00] 

But it was like, how can I just be present with this right now? How does it make me feel? Is it good? Is it bad? Okay. It feels good. let's continue with this. And after that, I kept going because I noticed like the, feeling, of grief was just not slipping away, but it was, it was quieter.

If I have to put a word to it, it was just a lot quieter. And day after day, I got home from school and I was in design school at the time, so I would do my design homework, but then something was pulling me towards just get a piece of paper out and just get some charcoal sticks out and just start working with pencils.

So that's, how I slipped into that. And that's how I started spending 15 hours on the weekends instead of maybe going out with my friends. 

Radim Malinic: think it's an amazing story how to deal with grief and how to potentially have still conversation with your brother through your eyes and through his [00:18:00] legacy that he left through.

your mind and body and spirit in a way that, as you said, like dealing with grief and the anxiety sort of going away by actually focusing on being present in the moment, you know, channeling your energy through a pencil and paper. because you are having, with every stroke, you're having a conversation with him.

And. taken aback when you say I was staying in the present moment because the moments of grief you want to escape it, you want to go back or you want to not be in the present moment. So actually to be focused, hyper focused on that, I think it's, quite a manifestation of how much of a sort of gratitude to life you had at that moment and saying, what can I do?

I'm still here, what shall I do? And I think that was there. I want to know the next piece of puzzle. You talked about drawing faces and looking for perfection. Those two things don't easily go together. Like drawing faces and being very good at it is very freaking hard. [00:19:00] So can we talk about why it was the portraiture?

What was about it that made you obsessed? 

Amanda Mocci: I think it was a few things. I always, obviously I love music,even when I was young, I was so drawn to different bands and different types of music. And I think I started to idolize some of these, band members, these musicians.

So the first thing I was falling into was actually drawing specific people, specific musicians, because of how the music made me feel. So I wasn't like, oh, okay, listen to this on the radio. The song's okay. I'm going to draw this person because they're popular. no, wasn't more that it was like, love Radiohead.

They're, my favorite band. so the way they construct their music, the way they compose everything, it just made me want to draw them. And there is also a part of the face that is Capturing? I think it's the eyes. So I started to obsess about the eyes and getting that [00:20:00] right before anything else because I feel like that was the most important part of, does this look real?

So it's almost like as long as the eyes are right, I feel like everything is going to connect. Like the mouth could be a little bit off, but I needed to have the eyes right. And I think that comes back to emotion and showing emotion and really what is this person feeling in the portrait?

And maybe it ties back to how I was feeling at the moment, but I think that was really important for me to get that emotion right. So again, we're talking about like hours of practice. I always think I fast forwarded like the, I still have a lot to learn, but I fast forwarded that learning process because of the amount of time it would spend.

Just testing and failing over and over again and trying to get it right. 

Radim Malinic: did you have any help? is it pre YouTube tutorials? Or is it, have you had some tuition or how did you, of [00:21:00] course you're naturally talented, as you said, like it was hours and hours of getting it right.

Did you look for shortcuts or did you look for, techniques how to get it right? 

Amanda Mocci: You know what, I look at it today and I think how amazing it is that there are so many tutorials out there. there's so much to learn. I think I might be overwhelmed by how much there is to learn right now. So I'm a bit thankful that no, we, I didn't have that before.

I didn't have, the way Instagram is today. I didn't have that. I didn't have YouTube. I think it was like just starting, but there wasn't a lot of that. available.where I started learning was a lot of, trial and error.crazy mistakes that seem like whatever, but literally putting my hand on the face while I'm drawing and then saying, Oh no, like I just smudged all of pencil.

Okay, let me put a paper on top next time. Like these random little failures that led to, What I do [00:22:00] now.I think if I would have had a step by step tutorial from someone, I don't think I would have trial and tested as much as I did today. and I think that's why I literally fell into almost every medium.

starting with pencil, then going to charcoal, then going to Conté, then going to gouache, then going to acrylic, then going to oil. And now I work a lot on the iPad, so I work a lot digitally, which is a whole other conversation we could get into after. but yeah, I think if I would have had a kind of tutorial on all this, I probably wouldn't have done all those tests.

I 

Radim Malinic: think you're very right. I think there was something about that bit of not knowing, as just working it out bit by bit, because it's almost like you can now turn to any content, to any answer, I need an answer to this. Here's the answer. And now we've got AI assistants,the Google Gemini or chat GPTs.

And it's just it's not even right. [00:23:00] It's there. It does something, but it just spits out some nonsense. I think, again, looking back to the, 90s is the best decade on the planet, full stop. when this thing runs out of whatever it does, there'll be like the 90s. That was the best bit.

but looking through those pieces and putting them together and holding your craft and working it out. I think that's almost like that. capsules for longevity. if you try and build it to the outer space, I think it just, it gives you something more I think there's, more intrigue because it's much easier, I would say now to be distracted.

 but I keep talking on this podcast, like, how we kind of build a foundation, we've almost taken away this sandpit, And we've given it pretty much like an army sort of weapons grade tools, like you want this, click this button, you want this, click this button, you want to know this, follow this.

And I think it's just a question, okay, if we've got these basics so sorted, what is it that people can do? like it's almost like steroid compost, we can just grow, plant the [00:24:00] seeds and they grow twice as fast and do more and more amazing things. The question is. Can the human mind actually understand all of this?

Because the narrow pool of options, the freedom of limitations, was much more rewarding, because, how do you even choose now what you want to be? Because you can be anything, and you can change, and I'm a big advocate of you can change every year what you want to do. If it doesn't make you happy, change, do this and that.

However I think as humans, we only go one speed of understanding how this stuff can work. So don't know what the answer is. I don't even know what the question was anymore, but it's like scaling things down is so much harder now than it ever was. So maybe we can count ourselves lucky. 

Amanda Mocci: I feel like we're, we were in this golden era, like when we were young.

 I just wish kids today can have a better. Peace of what we felt when we just started out or when we started out our careers or when we went to school or, all that stuff. [00:25:00] But I just feel like right now me, I would be so overwhelmed and I am overwhelmed sometimes and I have moments where, I could spend months just being overwhelmed.

not crafting anything, and just being in this stationary, feeling of, oh my god, I need to learn something. I need to learn something new. Or I start questioning my skills because you see things constantly being, thrown at you. here's a new way of doing this, a new way of doing that. To the point that I feel like if I fell asleep for a month, I would be completely lost.

and it's, an overwhelming feeling. And, this is me. I'm talking about myself, but I start to question a lot of, my abilities and can I shade well anymore? Maybe I'm losing it. Or am I still a good designer? and then I take to the internet and I start searching things and then I'm like, Whoa, okay, Amanda, hold on a [00:26:00] second.

let's take a deep breath. And let's like, go back to when you just started. What did you have? Oh, I had a pencil. What was it? It was HB. What kind of paper did you have? It was paper. Like literally asking myself these questions and how basic it was and I was doing just fine and I feel like I was more creative in the past than I am now.

So it's an interesting thing. It's like I feel like I hone my craft better. I'm definitely not there yet. And I'm also excited about where the next years are going to take me because, obviously with more and more time, you get better and better. But the creativity sometimes is hard to, come by.

And there are definitely some days where I feel very drained, almost like exhausted. Like, why am I so tired? I slept eight hours last night, or I slept all week. I'm eating fine. And then I just look at what I've consumed. And I think it was [00:27:00] Ben, actually, because I listened to that episode, which was fantastic.

And he talked about the high frequency, right? Of how everything is being thrown at you.I feel like sometimes, yeah, you just need to like, step away. there needs to be some sort of a detox and questioning, what's right for you and what's right for your mindset right now. And not so much looking at.

what is everyone else doing right now? And what's good to do right now? So that's tricky is like looking in oneself and asking what you need versus what does everyone else need? I 

Radim Malinic: think you're right there. on the second episode of this podcast, it was Jemma O'Brien who said that procrastination is our way to deal with reality.

Basically it's our bodies and mind telling us like, just hold back. Just basically just take a break. 

 you mentioned this beautiful sentence, beautiful phrase, stationary feeling. And it's, I think it might be, hard to achieve and hard to accept [00:28:00] it, but so rewarding to actually go through it. Just, to tell yourself, you know what, when I look back to what I had in the past, it's still what I need today.

I think that's the remarkable thing when we actually remind ourselves that scaling things down and looking at really the core of our sources of happiness is what we need. And it's, Yeah, I think it's, what you can see as potentially like a negative state, like I'm in a stationary state, makes me feel like a sort of space capsule, it's just orbiting.

It's happy. It's moving around. is it happy? It's in a stationary state, but I think it's something that. should be more encouraged, just to be, because yeah, as you said, like you learning so much and you feel like you need to learn something new, but how about an audit of what you've done so far?

How about audit of actually looking at your work going, actually, done well here, because We think we should have endless portfolios. We should feel like we have to work every day. We should fucking post every time, and it's exhausting. And then what do we do when we've done all of [00:29:00] this?

We complain about how exhausted we are because we've done everything to exhaust ourselves. Crazy, right? 

Amanda Mocci: it's so crazy. The human, psychology is actually, it's so special, how we are as beings and what we need to do To feel okay, if we were alone, first of all, that would not be good, right?

I feel like we all need human connection. but the idea of comparing. so present and it happens from such a young age too, right? Like you see it in kids, like they'll look at adults and then they start to move like them, right? and we, we do that, later on in life, especially as creatives.

it's easy to look at the successes of other people or like styles and say Oh wow, like that's obviously it's super amazing. I'm always so happy when I see someone is posting about their successes. And like a new style that they're testing out, but then it's easy to fall into maybe I should do that too, and why not just stop and be where [00:30:00] you are? no, no, Amanda, remember you said today you're going to rest and or you're gonna open your sketchbook and doodle today. Like not serious work. Take that time for yourself.We have that luxury too, I find, working for ourselves, is we don't necessarily have to do that nine to five.

So grilling ourselves and saying oh no, I took a three hour break instead of a half an hour break today. that's fine. we needed that. So it's just really about looking in oneself and feeling what do you need today? 

Radim Malinic: I think what we do as creatives, we don't always have a plan, and we feel proud because we don't have a plan, but the people with plan succeed because they've got milestones and markers, and they know what they need to do to achieve their goal and actually achieve their plan.

Whereas mostly creative start their creative endeavors or businesses because they want to do the thing and be paid for it. I don't really want to do the other bits, [00:31:00] but just let's focus on the creative bit because I want to do that, which in itself is a remarkable privilege of our lives.

not. Many people before could have just want to draw or leave me alone. And by the way, I don't want to deal with the business and don't do that. so what's. 

Did you ever feel like, your endurance is there because you were working on it, how did you see it? 

Amanda Mocci: Yeah. A thousand percent.I am a patient person, but there are certain things like learning a new craft that I tend to get impatient.

Or if I see something is starting to go really well, I'm like, Oh, great. So the next part is going to be even better. And then sometimes it's not there's a failure associated to that next part. And you have to be okay with that.it's interesting because I feel like.

People going to the gym have a very similar outcome, whereas they're like I want a great body and I want to look like this. If usually when that happens, I think, what is it? I forget what the percentage is, but two months and it fails and people just go home and they don't use the rest of their membership.[00:32:00] 

Whereas if you actually connected back to what was the reason that you started this? Was it, to feel good? Yes, it could, looking good could be a component, obviously, but what's really the root that is going to keep you going and, longer? Once you keep that in mind, you're going to keep going and you're going to make it into a habit and it's going to just become memory, right?

I said the same thing when I started drawing because At some point, like oil specifically, was so challenging and there were nights because I would usually do this stuff at night. I just would want to throw my brush across the room and I'm like, I can't do this. what am I doing? Where am I?

Like questioning life, at that point. And I just couldn't get the technique So I put the brush down And I would think, usually I would go to bed cause it was like probably three in the morning at this point. And I [00:33:00] would think about this. It was almost like a meditation before going to sleep.

It's what am I trying to achieve here? And connect back to the feeling of why I started in the first place.and then I let that sink in and then the technique would slowly come to me over my sleep. It was very interesting. So I'd wake up and go to the canvas and then it would just work.

It was almost like I needed to take space from this and then telling myself Hey, I don't want fame. obviously I'd love to live with this. I'd love to turn this into a career, but the point is not to get likes. it's not to become ultra famous. It's because I want to feel at peace.

I want to do something that I really love and that makes me feel good.connection back to my brother as well. Like that's such a huge, that's like my North Star. And once I think about that, it's like once the mind just calms down, everything just connects again and it becomes so much simpler and so much [00:34:00] easier.

And then that patience comes in and that whole 12 week step becomes a lot easier. 

Radim Malinic: What you described is as growing neuron pathways. So you cannot learn to play guitar in afternoon, like you literally need to play a bit, go to sleep. And that's we use the expression, I need to sleep on it because yeah, we have to sort of clearance, grow new, pathways, it starts making more sense and then it just becomes easier and easier.

And I think what's really interesting is actually when, if you were to step away from that technique for, let's say a week, because you couldn't paint, you And you come back to it and you actually had time to think about what you're going to do. And I think, It's a huge privilege to actually have time to think about creativity because we want to do the thing all the time, right?

Especially at the beginning. And then when you find yourself through your and parenting and running a business and stuff, you don't have the time to be creative all the time. your time to think increases and your time to create [00:35:00] decreases, but it becomes more rewarding.

Because what we do at the beginning, obviously we try to find ourselves and we explore extra options that would normally now be discarded by the time that you get to draw something. You're like, okay, I know what I want to do. This. Years ago, that would be a finish, full of unhappiness, thinking I need to try more and more and more.

And I think that sort of maturity creative space and creative mindset is so valuable. So I think that hardship is necessary. I think not that need to throw the brush across the room or feeling like it is, essential because again, if it was easy. Would you still be doing it?

Simple answer. 

Amanda Mocci: Definitely not. it's so interesting what you're saying because I think today we tried to take shortcuts. Very often, and especially that we're being spoon fed a lot of information. and if you look at the content that's being put out, it's like they have an end goal too. Their end goal is to [00:36:00] show their work to get likes and also to spread, their creativity to others.

But, I think the hardship is so necessary. Like you said, It makes us who we are, and if we wouldn't encounter failures at the beginning, the minute we encounter a failure later on, when it comes up, we might go into meltdown mode, Oh my God, what is this?

What am I facing right now? This is so new. But if you face it at the very beginning, it just makes it so much easier later on. to adapt and to change. I think, I 

Radim Malinic: think we're growing our resilience. I think for a lot of time. so you mentioned that you do portraiture, but you also mentioned your design business.

And you mentioned recently, not in one of your interviews, that this is your third attempt in running a business. Have I got it right? 

Amanda Mocci: Yup. 

Radim Malinic: So let's talk about what happened in one, two, and what's happening with three. was your first iteration of your business? Why didn't it work second time? Why didn't it work and what did you do [00:37:00] to counter it and how is it working out now on the third try?

Okay. 

Amanda Mocci: so first attempt was straight out of school. I got a,part time job as a designer, but it was considered freelance. So three days a week for one year. And I was doing design work on the side. I was drawing. I didn't know what I wanted to do. I think I was a bit confused too, because I really wanted to be a graphic designer and I love design like so much.

I love print. I love working with typography and now brand identities, like actually building brands for companies and individuals. At the time I didn't know that, but I was just passionate about the craft. And then I would draw too on the side, for magazines, for books. So all that while working with a company, I think I was just splitting myself up too much.

And I wasn't putting enough focus on my own business, which,led it to fail. And I say this in the most positive way, but [00:38:00] for good reason, because then I just, it got stronger, the next time I tried it. So the reason why I actually stopped it is I got offered a job, a full time job.

it was very hard to turn down the salary, especially when you're young. I took it and after two and a half years, I was like, okay, I learned a lot, but something's just pulling me to, try my own thing again.I do this a lot and I think that's why I run my business is because I love working with so many different types of clients.

Like I feel like working for one company just wasn't me. I don't want to say boring, was getting a little bit bored of the type of work that was, given to me.then, now when we get to the third time is, I started to label myself actually as Machi Studio because I felt like maybe labeling myself as a studio is going to put me a little bit more in a professional mindset.

It's like less of a freelancer and more of a collaborator [00:39:00] and the ability to also reach out to other creatives to work with me on different projects. mostly brand identity projects because illustration, it would be solely me, doing it. Unless obviously the project called for, example for like your coffee company, you hired an illustrator to have that specific style.

those are the type of illustrators that I would hire. and again, every time I felt like I was failing, I feel like going back to a company to work for nine to five, it just made the feeling so that much stronger. I'm like, Hmm, okay. I learned more about business. I learned more about managing my time, more about accounting, more about failing.

More about being a creative director. I worked my way up from design to senior designer, art director, creative director. And that was, a really interesting one for me. It's cause like actually managing a team. And I felt like that was the moment three years ago that [00:40:00] I could break away and do this myself.

And in three years, it's been fantastic. But I've also had some very hard moments where the thought definitely comes back to my mind. Hmm, do I go back to a nine to five, do I work for a company? And don't even have time to finish that sentence. And I'm just like, no, I can't, I can't do that.

Like everything I worked towards over the last 15 years, I don't want to throw that away. And I feel like it has a connection as to what you were saying before is going through that hardship just builds you up, builds up resilience to that point where you're going to hit rock bottom, but it's okay.

Like you keep going and is a hard moment, but it enables you to get really creative about like how you can get contracts and how you can connect with different people. Yeah. And then expand your business. So that's, in a nutshell. I hope that [00:41:00] made sense. 

Radim Malinic: Absolutely. Absolutely. I can tell you that the hard moments, no one's immune to those.

No one's, God is saucy that it's all fantastic, no? Sunshine and ice cream every day, every week, every month, every year, like everyone goes through ups and downs. And this particular season has been a revelation of talking to some people who are super established, super known. Some of them don't work for six months a year, but they've got time to do other things.

But it just reinstates that a human sort of element of what we do, that we see people through the lens of social media, through their newsletters, and I can let you believe about the things that we do and we don't do, I can choose my narrative, how I put it out there.

Because, No one knows what anybody else does day to day, tell ourselves that, Oh, everyone's got it great. What if I can don't? Everyone breaks, everybody cries the same, everybody stresses the same way. it's still a survival instinct for all of us, and I think that sort of element [00:42:00] of scarcity of resources, when you let yourself believe that what it is out there, we are designated to square space, no squares.

shapes on Instagram or whatever. And there's only X amount of people you can see, then that will lead you to the wrong path because I've been doing this for more than 20 years on my own. And to bring it back to the moon analogy and theme, sometimes the tide is out. Sometimes the tide is out, but it will just come back.

it's just in and it goes out because I can tell you that even in my sort of mature, ripe, working age, no one's immune. when you think about what's the other option. and you said it perfectly, like you don't even let yourself finish that thought. I don't be silly

 how lucky we are that we can create our own, like we can work hard and we can make this work because.

When you describe from your journey of a illustrator, designer, art director, creative director, that takes you back to your 18 year old self or seven year old self, like you're [00:43:00] working it out just like everybody else. And then we've got a choice of do we want to drive our own destiny or do we want somebody else to tell us what to do?

You've got two options and some people are just happy to follow. Okay. You know what? I want to go home at five o'clock. and do whatever I like, there might be starting their creative careers later or doing something completely different, But when you get, I think, so passionately obsessive about what could be and what should be, then it's going to bring those ups and downs.

And sometimes we need to understand that they both in the same amount of supply, because we think that creativity should be easy. But if it was, we would really lose the interest quite quickly. So that's pretty much been like the theme of our conversation. there needs to be waves.

The boat needs to be rocked. And because of that, we're going to find solutions how to actually keep it on straight.so for your love of storytelling and for your love of music and your love of Radiohead, what's, [00:44:00] why are your inspirations now, are Radiohead still, present? Have you moved on to, is it called Smile now, next band?

Smile or The Smile? 

Amanda Mocci: The Smile. it's extremely present. And I think it goes back to, rooted memories of when we were sponges, and discovering for me, discovering music at such a young age. And I say the privilege of having older siblings who have an older sister as well, and having like seventies and eighties rock, music present in the house helped so much and discovering like Radiohead 12 years old, where I was the only one listening to that, in school when everyone was listening to like pop albums.

And I secretly was like, yeah, I don't like pop, I would much prefer more of the heavier kind of deep lyrical music. so I think the connection that I have with music is really it's definitely around the lyrics. That's the first thing listen to because that's really what [00:45:00] inspires me for my work.

designed as as illustration and portraiture. there's words that, I connect with, while I'm listening to this, I'm like, Ooh, that's good. That could maybe be a title, of a piece, like a portrait piece, or maybe like a design piece that I'm going to be working on.

But it's also how the music makes me feel. So I find I tend to go for this, like maybe more unpredictable. music. whereas like pop, I forget what book this is. Oh yeah, Your Brain on Music. And I can't remember who wrote it. Very interesting book.

it's really based on the psychology of like how your brain reacts to the music that you're listening to and how mostly people love listening to pop because it's predictable. Like you hear the beat. You understand, you know the buildup, you know what's coming next. But whereas like Radiohead, for example, is extremely unpredictable.

And I love that I'm actually on the opposite end where I don't know if that's left or right [00:46:00] brained. I forget what it is, but I love that unpredictableness. and having it on, having it playing while I'm working, which I still do. So there's still certain albums that I'll listen to when I start drawing, because I remember how I used to feel like when I first started drawing, listening to these albums.

Just having that play makes my work unpredictable. So it throws me off a little bit. I'm like, okay, don't be such a perfectionist here. And then I talked to myself, I'm like, remember you wanted to put like this random colored paint stroke, like this album is going to help you do that. So yeah. And I feel if I would just listening to maybe the radio, That wouldn't happen.

 no offense to, radio music. It's still good, but it's just not for me, right? I love listening to, movie scores as well. That's a massive one for me. Interstellar is probably my favorite film. ever. And I don't remember how many times I've listened to the [00:47:00] album like on repeat, like I even bought the vinyl.

it's so beautiful. It's so epic. it's one that I often put on when I'm working, when I'm drawing. actually one small story I wanted to mention related to this is I think it was in university. We had an art class and it was,arts, it's not where I learned how to draw, but this, these classes definitely helped me.

There were like live art sessions and my teacher, sometimes she would look at my work and it was a French school. So she was like, Hmm, I could tell that the music wasn't good last night. Like just by looking at the work, she was like, Hmm, this is not as unpredictable as you normally are.

It's it's not as fluid. what were you listening to? And I'm like, that's really, what do you mean? I could tell, I feel like your work is normally a little bit more fluid, a bit more dynamic. And then when I actually thought back, I was like, I wasn't listening to anything. I was just trying to get the project done.

so that was something that actually stayed with me is whatever I'm listening to and whatever, even the mood that I have in the [00:48:00] room or, the feeling helps so much with the work that I'm creating. 

Radim Malinic: What we're discussing here is the feeling, how the music makes us feel, like how art makes us feel, because you're right about, when the music is familiar, but is unpredictable, because it's not linear. you don't start listening to radio and sound and thinking, I will know the chorus by the third time, I will be singing along, no you're not,there's this guy called Rick Beato who like takes the songs apart on YouTube and there's a fifth, there's a seventh, there's a ninth, and it just goes in like, when I was in the band when we were young, we were like, Let me see what I can do with this, how it shouldn't be used.

I think that was the whole idea of this is a straight chord and you move your fingers and it sounds weird. And that's also fucking brilliant. And I think that's focused lens on what you're trying to achieve by distorting things and pushing them into directions that potentially were never be, never meant to be in that way.

just love what you're telling me. I just wish that lots of people can actually experience it and the kind of go through those motions because [00:49:00] having that feeling when the music starts to play and you feel your hairs on your arms going to go in up, and I've lost a friend he wasn't trying to be famous.

He stuck with the music. We were in a band when I was 17, 16, he sadly passed away. In the early 40s, a few years ago, and I did an album cover for him, and it's just been put on Spotify, and I was listening to it, and I was like, even though I've heard the album so many times, and I looked at the work, which was done in 2007, it could have been better.

But it was that connection between the music and that predictable unpredictability, because their music wasn't straightforward. And he was one of the most amazing poets in my lifetime. my absolute pleasure to have been, his lifetime and mine. You're like, This is brain food.

This is something that, stays with you for so long. yeah, I just really, I don't know how to even describe it, it's just this feeling that you can get lost with your craft, through this sort of sensory [00:50:00] experience. yeah, wow. 

Amanda Mocci: It's undescribable. it was so beautiful what you said it's undescribable and you need to sit with this moment and try to live it for yourself and see, and some people don't connect with it as, that they connect with it differently.

For them. It's just a song. But like you said, that chill and that, oh, that feeling. And it's different every time. I think it's so beautiful and wish everyone could feel that because it's really incredible. I wanted to add that. That's why. 

Radim Malinic: Thank you. It's beautifully said. I'm sure there's just different ways and different feelings.

what do we know about people in 70s, 60s and I've found and. centuries before. But, before I let you go, where's Amanda going next? do you have a plan? Do you have a 12 week plan, six month plan, or a year plan? 

Amanda Mocci: as a business owner, I should. I really should. And I have what I'd like to call a loose plan.

Like a very, Happy loose plan. So it's [00:51:00] something that I have actually pinned to my wall. when I get up in the morning and I start my day, I look at it and I call it the milestones that I'd like to achieve.those things might happen in a couple of weeks.

They might happen in a month or a year, but I'd like for them to happen one year. Usually that's the goal for me is whatever I write and I don't write too many things. There's like kind of four pillars, let's say.let's say for 2024 and then I'll move on the next year.

But if those things don't happen, I'm not upset because I know that whatever else happened during the month or the year has led me to learn new things, has led me to where I am today. Whether it's slow periods, whether it's extreme high periods where I'm like stressed out of my mind, but still loving the craft and loving what I'm doing and learning how to manage my time properly.

Like all these things that are leading to, growth at the end of the day.so I guess to answer your question, really, my [00:52:00] pillars are growing my business, taking more brand identity projects, always connecting back to,Really, like I don't have a specific type of client that I like to work with, but I think at the root of it, it's clients that are change driven, want to make a difference in the world and really have a story to tell.

So for me, story is a huge component of branding. Because it's not just about what looks good on paper and visually, but it's like, what's the root of it? what's the gold that we can dig out? gold of storytelling. and for art, I would say that I took a backseat and this was a hard one because, Juggling both things in my business was becoming very difficult.

so I started to not look for illustration clients, but just create art for myself, and just put out art when it feels right, and use art almost as a,balance for what I do in the day. Whereas more computer work, or [00:53:00] just sketching out logos and concepts. I feel like sometimes, let's say that starts to get like a lot, heavy, you know, and whatnot.

I know that I need to move on to paper and start drawing. Or move on to my iPad and do a portrait. So there needs to be this kind of balance.whereas before I always had to have an answer is like, what do I want to do later on? Do I want to be a brand designer? Do I want to be an illustrator? Do I want to be both?

I don't need to answer that. I just want to do what feels right. And I think I've realized that over the years, this formula right now is what feels right. And now it could happen that, I have a client that maybe approaches me and wants me to do a portrait for them for, for a column or like for an article or a book cover.

If the project is aligned, I'll definitely take it. I 

Radim Malinic: think what you said, I think it's such a healthy mindset now because you can be what you want to be at that moment, but you want it to be rather than what you should be. So I remind you of the two words that you said at the beginning of this [00:54:00] conversation, you said it's about endless possibilities.

And I think being open to it, knowing it comes at the right time. I think that's a gift. And you mentioned the word growth, which again is very much applicable to all of this, because when you allow yourself to go through these turmoils, let the tide out and let it come back in, in high tide, it just builds you as a person.

So Amanda, I just absolutely love this conversation. Thank you for spending your time with me today. Keep on doing what you're doing. I think it's, it's remarkable, knowing more about how you do it and why you do it, makes me appreciate it even more. thank you. 

Amanda Mocci: Thank you so much. It was honestly such an honor and a privilege to, to be here and to catch up.

I'm so happy to be here. Thank you.

Radim Malinic: I thank you for listening to this episode of mindful creative podcast. I'd love to know your thoughts, questions, or even suggestions. So please get in touch via the show notes or social channels. This episode was produced and presented by me, write and manage editing. An audio production was [00:55:00] massively done by Neil McKay from 7 million bikes podcast. And the theme music was written and produced by Jack James. Thank you. 

USBPre2-7: And I hope to see you on the next episode.