A short bonus episode showcasing a few standout moments from this week's guest interview with Seth Epstein from Los York ~

Daring Forever. Podcast with Radim Malinic

daringcreativity.com |  desk@daringcreativity.com

Books by Radim Malinic Paperback and Kindle > https://amzn.to/4biTwFc
Free audiobook (with Audible trial) > https://geni.us/free-audiobook
Book bundles  https://novemberuniverse.co.uk

Lux Coffee Co. https://luxcoffee.co.uk/  (Use: PODCAST for 15% off)
November Universe https://novemberuniverse.co.uk (Use: PODCAST for 10% off)

Radim Malinic: Hey, welcome to this bonus episode of the Daring Forever podcast. We are coming out a day late today because I'm just about to launch the Daring Forever book, and oh my God, my world is busy. Lots to do.

Anyway, you know that in these weekly episodes, I talk about the standout moments from this week's conversation, often finding the ones that deserve a second look and dig deeper on what makes them special. And this week, I spoke to Seth Epstein, who is a creative entrepreneur and founder of creative agency Lost York, who are calling themselves the nomads of the arts.

It was a great conversation, and we talked about him building one of the first fully digital motion design studios, in the sort of late '90s. He sold it at 31 and then spent the best part of a decade actually being lost, searching for purpose, until a small passion project opened a door back in.

The episode published a few days ago was titled "Dare to Let One Conversation Change Your Life," and it was a great view into the world of a creative entrepreneur who's gone through a fair share of conversations with a great ear for listening. He talks about his friendship with Sean Stussy. he talks about encounters with his friends who showed him, always a glimmer of hope or direction where he should go next.

And it's a very, very human conversation about what it's like to be at the helm of your life, have to go through ups and downs. it was incredible. If you haven't checked out a full episode, let me share with you these four standout moments

he would run out of breath and then pause for a second, and I would just sit there, and I wouldn't defend myself. I wouldn't respond. I had a notebook. I was just making notes. And the only thing I would say is, "Okay. I hear you. Anything else?" And he would go, "Yeah, there is something else," and da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, and I'd write the notes and blah, blah, blah, and then I would say to him, "Okay,I hear you.

Seth Epstein: I got that I fucked up the time code, the this, the that, that," and I would regurgitate back what I heard, and then I would say, "Is there anything else?" And by the end of the, I guess you'd call it meeting, he had emptied his cup. 

 He had dumped everything out. I had totally heard him in a way that I didn't defend.

I didn't say I was gonna fix anything. I didn't say I did things right or wrong. I just heard him, and I recreated what he said to me, So he knew that I had heard him fully. And he felt gotten, I guess. And, at the end of the meeting, I don't know if he was exhausted or he had just been fully heard, but I remember him just being, like, calm as a cucumber.

Radim Malinic: And then he said, "You got some serious balls to come in here. I'm impressed." And then I leftso one of the reasons why I wanted to get Seth on the podcast was that I saw his talk at OFFF Barcelona, where he reenacted a conversation that happened on the phone where he was told that he will never work in this town because 

He messed up bad, and he didn't even know how to actually fix whatever he need to fix. What I admired about that conversation is that he was sat in a glass office with an executive who was shouting at him, and Seth was just taking notes, saying nothing back, and kept asking, Is there anything else?"

Imagine yourself when you are in a situation where, it's a make or break, and it's very real, and most of us... it's often possible just to have a freak out by reading a bad email. But imagine being sat in the office where someone is literally shouting at you, and you're thinking, "Oh, my God.

 when do I start defending myself?" And Seth didn't, and this was exactly what was the exciting moment because he went against our wiring. And using his zen story that his dad has given him, he managed to sit there and, take it all in without defending himself. And that 

 meeting changed a lot of things, and also became a basis of how Seth listens and leads and wins his work because he says that emptying a cup is basically letting someone just get it all out and then potentially bring them back to normal, and so they can listen to you and back in reverse.

So at the time, also had a business coach that I was coaching with, and one of the things she would always say is, "You can't have a breakthrough without a breakdown." And, there's different ways to say it. You can say all breakthroughs occur on the back of a breakdown, or you can't have a breakthrough without a breakdown, however you wanna say it.

Seth Epstein: The phraseology is important, but this is a concept that I've operated on for the entirety of my career, which is a breakdown is as painful as it is, good news. You want breakdowns. You want the breakdowns. Go out and find the breakdowns. If you're really on it, you go out and find the breakdowns before they occur, and that's another level of operating.

Radim Malinic: But this idea that a breakdown happens, a blow to your nervous system, a blow to your ego, a blow to your self-perception, whatever it is, I saw it as, okay, there's a breakthrough around the corner here 'cause this is as bad as it gets. There's only one way up, And so I think to answer your question, I heard you say was like, "How did you prepare yourself or how were you able to go into that room and do that?"So this is a big mindset shift because most of us think of a breakdown as a sign that something has gone terribly wrong. And in Seth's case, he kinda treats it as a proof that something is actually about to go right.

He picked up this idea from his first business coach and worked by it ever since. You can't have a breakthrough without a breakdown. He's honest, and that doesn't stop the fear. the lost sleep, the shortness of breath. It all changes what you do next because instead of spiraling, you can start looking for the breakthrough.

It works for business growth, personal growth, relationships alike. Next time when things go sideways, try saying, "Okay, big breakdown. So where's the next breakthrough?"

I got to experience the downside of that. eventually over a series of years, I was profoundly unhappy, yet I had everything you could think that you would want. I bought a beach house in Malibu. I had pretty cars. I didn't have to work. the dream, you're like, everybody thinks I'm gonna win the lottery, and then I'm gonna be happy."

Seth Epstein: Or, "When I have enough money, then I'm gonna be happy." Or, "When I have the country house," or, "When I have the beach house," or, " When I marry the supermodel," or whatever the story is that we all create for ourselves, the someday my prince will come And, so I got to experience that someday when the prince comes or when things go your way the way you thought you want them to go, how miserable you can be, how one could be.

And I was miserable. And I was miserable because I didn't have a purpose. I didn't have a community, and I didn't have a purpose. And I was lost for a bunch of years, and I built a bunch of different kind of companies, a app company, a software company, a nutraceutical company. I was doing all of these things outside of my sweet spot, and I was miserable. And, but on the side, I was still making little films, and I love cameras. And the 5D Mark II came out, and I started making some really beautiful little films, and I made a film about, one of my heroes, a guy named Sean Stussy, who I had met, here in Santa Barbara at the steps, at Miramar, and we became friendly, and we'd see each other at coffee.

And I said to him one day, "Hey, 

Radim Malinic: I'm doing these little films. Could I come over to the studio and make a little film of you?" I mean, where do I even start? it was a beautifully honest part of this conversation because at thirty-one, Seth sold his company and got a dream we're all told to chase. You know, living in Malibu, having nice cars, freedom, not needing to work. And guess what?

It made him miserable, and, made him miserable just like many, many, many other people. Some people give themselves a few years. They might need to recuperate, re-recharge, and go back in. But in Seth's case, imagine yourself when you were thirty-one, maybe you're a bit more mature now, but I was thirty-one, you give me a lot of money, I think I would have ended up in a similar situation.

 even though, tell yourself that you would carry on doing so, doing the same thing, same way, but it potentially wouldn't, and I think it's, a variable situation. So with Seth having everything on paper that you would want, a few years later, when his wife called him that she had to leave a trolley full of grocery at the checkout because there was actually no money left, it was, striking how plainly he told me the story because there was no polish, no hero arc, 'cause it was someone who was actually humble, telling the truth that success without purpose or community feels super, super hollow.

What brought him back wasn't a, clever strategy. He asked himself what he loves and what he would do for free. Because if you're waiting for someday to make you happy, re-listen to the conversation with Seth and find out what it takes to actually find a purpose because purposeless people get really scared

One meeting can change your life. And I say this to people who are coming up, but I s-say it to myself all the time. I say it to- My, wife and I were talking about this the other day. One meeting, one conversation, one comment can change your life, and you just don't know which one it's gonna be. And it can be somebody saying, "Hey, I met this guy who blah, blah, blah.

Seth Epstein: You should meet him." And those moments for me in my life have been the ones that have completely flipped the direction of my life. So this idea that where life happens is not in our head, it's not in our studio, it's not in our comfort zone. Where life happens is out there in the world in conversation, in physical conversation, in meeting people in these conversations.

And you never know, one person can say a throwaway comment, but that throwaway comment makes a ping for you, and you go, "Yeah, I actually wanna go to the Dodgers." And that going to the Dodgers game is the thing that flips life around for you or opens up the new avenue. It's this idea of being open or being available.

I think going back to your original question in terms of... I think your question was some version of with Stüssy, what were the things that I grokked or pulled away from that? Well- 

 there's a lot there. I think the thing that was interesting about him is he had built a company.

Radim Malinic: We're going full circle from the first moment because the invitation to listen and find the moment of let people in, You don't always want people to empty their cup, but you also learn how to listen and how to put yourself in the path of luck.

 I do like that quote from a previous season by my friend Barney Miller who says, "You need to put yourself in the luck's path," because you can do whatever you want, but if you're invisible, if you're not there, if you're not part of a conversation, if you're just hoping that something will come to you, it might be potentially impossible.

 in Seth's story, it turned out to be a sequence of small moments. When a friend invited him to a seminar and he found a coach. The same friend told him that he needs to change his company name. A coffee shop friendship with a hero turned into a film which opened the doors to his next chapter.

In fact, I think it's the story behind Lost York, why it all started. None of these moments were planned. They just happened because Seth showed up, said yes, and stayed open to it. And this is the point which is gentle and beautifully powerful because life doesn't happen in our heads or our studios or our comfort zones.

It happens out in the world in real conversations with real people. In a time where everything is screens and DMs, this is a lovely reminder that going to an event, grabbing a coffee and just being, alive can, turn a throwaway comment into something that can change everything.

thanks for being here on this bonus episode. I would fully suggest you check out what Lost York are doing, what Seth Epstein's doing, and yeah, listen to the full conversation because it was a fantastic one to remind us that, life comes at us in different waves, and those waves are often very unpredictable.

Thank you for being here, and I'll catch you back next week with the release of Daring Forever. The paperback, Kindle, and audiobook are ready, and I can't wait to share it with you. So yeah, thanks for being here.