A short bonus episode showcasing a few standout moments from this week's guest interview with Amy Swift ~

Daring Forever. Podcast with Radim Malinic

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Radim Malinic: Hey, welcome to this bonus episode of the Daring Forever podcast. As you might know, this is my weekly chance to zoom in on a few standout moments from this week's interview, find the moments that deserve a second look, and dig deeper in what makes those moments special. This week, I spoke with Amy Swift, a London-born singer-songwriter.

In this conversation, we talked about where songs really come from, the art of writing to someone else's brief, knowing when to stop, and and why the first recording take sometimes is the truest. The episode, published on Monday, was titled Be Too Grateful For The Detour, and it was a great chat about plenty of hustle, a lot of nerve, about what led Amy into studios, record deals, and other people's feature tracks.

 she also talked about the fact that she never wanted to be a voice for hire. She wanted to be her own artist and have stories to tell. If you haven't checked out the full episode, let me share with you these four standout moments.

 And I ended up a bit like what Ray was talking about, where you've got a certain, label or certain publishers with an agenda, and they're like, "If we can get you on as many tracks as possible, then that means more cuts for us." which makes sense, especially if you've got an advance and you're having to pay it back.

Amy Swift: they're basically gonna work you to get that money back. So I was put in loads of different, house sessions, and I never wanted to be, like, a house vocalist. I'm super grateful for it because it kinda led me to where I am today. But there was always that conflict of... And I remember having a conversation with my management at the time of, "I don't wanna be just a vocalist that is on house tracks."

There's nothing wrong with that. it totally works for some people. But I think because I had stories to tell and I was a songwriter, I wanted to write little stories. I didn't wanna just write a hook, it has led me to, other stuff that has earned me money, so, I can't grumble at it really.

But, I like to write my own things.

Radim Malinic: So

 Amy is honest here about a real tension. Her soulful voice made her an in-demand house vocalist, and her publishers were happy to keep her booking onto more other people's tracks because more cuts meant more money back on the advance.

 she could have easily been bitter about it. Instead, she told me that she was super grateful because that work led her to be where she is today. She still drew a line, though, and told her management she didn't want to be just a vocalist that is on house tracks.

 I'm sure you will recognize this, that doing work that just pays and doesn't fulfill your soul isn't quite right. And Amy showed in this moment that she can respect the detour.

was grateful for the work and features that led her to where she is, and she didn't see it as a work that wasn't quite right. It was beautiful detour, that gave her an idea how to be clear about where she was heading next.

And it would go on for months. well, years actually. It went on for years, creating the first stuff. And we've learnt that actually, less is more. So now I'm like, "Nope, stop. that's it. That, that one's done now," And I've had to train myself to do that, 'cause I think, e- early days I was like, "Oh, I don't know if I like it anymore.

Amy Swift: Oh, can we try this? Oh..." like every creative goes through. You're just, questioning yourself. But I think now less is more, and I think I've got better at saying, "No, that's done." Sometimes you get it in the demo. Like my track Moving, we used the demo vocal, which was the first thing I put down.

And we tried loads of different takes and loads of different versions, and we got to a point, like, six months later and we were like, "Fuck it. Let's put the demo on." That's when we got it. That's when we got the magic. So yeah, there's a lot to be said for kind of overcooking 

Radim Malinic: it It was not the first time that I've had an artist saying, "Look, I did a first take on my phone somewhere in rehearsal in different country," and it turned out that that was the take that was the best one. it often im-implies to vocal takes.

And this was one of the stories that Amy told me, that her and her producer spent six months on her track titled "Moving," recording take after take and trying different versions. But in the end, they went back to the very first vocal demo, and that's where they found the magic. she admits, her early material dragged on for years because she kept overcooking it.

 with another bass line here, another tweak there. You know, it's easy, easy, easy for even any type of creative just to keep going because you don't have a defined line. Now her rule is much simpler. When it feels good, stop. and you can see that as an antidote to perfectionism.

 and it works for anyone, whether you're making a song, a logo, or piece of painting. The first honest take often has something that polishing can't really bring it back. and perfectionism isn't a badge of honor.

It's just our nervous system trying to outrun shame. We keep going, going, going, A] because we have a defined deadline. We have a defined, shape of what we need to create. And it's most often just us worrying about what people might think when we share our work with the world, and that's where sometimes the tracks just never get finished

I love it. And I think you touched upon, like a lot of artists do have an ego, and they would never want anyone to know that, oh, I wrote a piece for an advert or I wrote a piece for, a TV show or whatever. But I think there's nothing wrong with that. I've always tried to be really transparent with it because I think it's important that people know that there are multiple sides of being a musician or multiple sides of being an artist.

Amy Swift: And you have to look at, multiple ways of how you can create, earn money out of music and, being you. So I think for me it was a challenge. I remember when I was writing it in COVID and I was like, "Oh God, I really need to get out this head of just writing what I wanna write and how I feel today and write what they're asking me to write."

But I think once you hone into that and get in that lane, it's actually quite nice 'cause you've almost got a bit of parameters. You're not just writing, whatever, you pluck out of the sky at that moment. You're actually writing, something that has got to be within certain parameters.

So, I got into it after a while.

Radim Malinic: during the COVID time, Amy found herself, in a different line of work than the normal one because her live music opportunities have stopped just like for everybody else, and she found a new lane, writing to briefs for TV and adverts, and the briefs came with set themes, set keywords, and sometimes even chanted numbers and claps.

And at first, it was hard to stop writing about how she felt that day. Because Amy is an emotional writer, you know, to be a writer for hire kind of requires a different way of seeing the equation. But once she got into it, though, she found the parameters actually, as she says it, quite nice.

What makes this moment stand out is how she's open about it. Plenty of artists would hide the fact that they write for adverts, but Amy's very open about the fact that she works for sync music because after all, that's made her musical career last longer. In fact, it's given her runway to be able to come back and write for herself as a result of it.

So I would say it's a mature work of seeing creative work and it treats constraints as structure rather than compromise. I always believe that there's, freedom and limitations. Once you know what your constraints are, the space can be really vast

I think a lot of creatives, I think we all have that, where something just comes out of us and you're like, "Oh, I didn't know I had that in me," kind of thing. But I think, if someone's just gonna start from nothing and think, "Oh, I wanna give this a go," I think, it usually comes from a feeling.

Amy Swift:  everything I've written has come from a feeling to start off with. And it's been, like, how do I feel? what do I want to say? Usually I'm, really, like, I don't know, blue or something, and I'm writing about heartache or whatever. But it usually comes from a feeling and, just a little melody that's in your head, and then sometimes the words come out.

Sometimes it's just a melody, and then you put the words to it. But, usually comes from a feeling. And I think everyone can potentially write because we're all humans having the human experience. We've all been through, heartache, loss, grief. We all share similar, experiences and similar feelings, and I think 

That's what you can lean upon if you wanna write

Radim Malinic: ask Amy to explain songwriting to someone who has never written anything, and her, was beautifully warm and bit generous, she told me that it all starts with a feeling. How do I feel? What do I wanna say? Sometimes the melody comes first, and sometimes the words do. And when she sort of expanded on this, she said, "We are all humans having a human experience, and you often get to hear that some of the albums, some of the most amazing albums 

 come from the place of heartache, loss, and grief, and it's given them something to, as a starting foundation. It kind of pushes the feelings out.

 and she mentions the fact that songwriting can be taken out of the gifted few sort of category and handed back to pretty much anyone listening. her story about writing song, "Coming Home," adds just extra layer to that wonder.

She literally said, "I was in the studio, and I just don't know where it came from." Thank you for joining me on this bonus episode with Amy Swift. It was nice to talk a little bit different topic this time about songwriting. As you can tell, I'm always geeking out about the little knowledge I have, and I try to expand on this, of what people do and how they write and what is the mindset of being a musician in 2026, understanding what opportunities we've got, what, you know, tools, techniques, understanding psychology of writing.

It's fascinating because there are people who are emotional, and there are people who are mathematical, and all of them create music that we all, you know, love and enjoy. Thank you for being here, and thank you for listening.

I'll be back next week talking to Seth Epstein from Los York about his career into creative world.